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Thread: Belkar's Character Development?
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2017-11-21, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Belkar's Character Development?
First of all, I think his development as a character has been a masterful slow burn. I also think that he's gradually becoming a neutral-aligned character.
Second, he's no longer completely "faking it" as he was advised to do by Shojo. Forgive me for not having any links, but:
~His relationship with Mr. Scruffy, most notably the time he healed Mr. Scruffy instead of immediately hunting for the man who hurt him.
~The shopkeep who offered to get lunch with him after he "did her a favor" and bought the "defective" protection from evil charm at half price.
~"He didn't blame me." Nuff said.
~Lastly, is the PFE object he uses hurting him less? Just a thought after reading the latest comic... he doesn't seem to be as uncomfortable activating it as he was when he first bought it.
So what do you fans think? Travelling north of evil, or faking it?
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2017-11-21, 11:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
It's pretty clear that Belkar is not as Evil as he used to be. I still think he's evil though, just not as much. In my eyes he won't be Neutral as long as he has not at least :
1) Committed some kind of sacrifice (ie make a good act that costs him something for selfless reasons).
2) Expressed regret over his past crimes.
And even then it would still be a long way to go. Redemption is rare thing after all.
I would also like to point out that there are people who argues he has been CN the entire time.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2017-11-21, 12:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
It is indeed a rare and special thing.
I would also like to point out that there are people who argues he has been CN the entire time.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2017-11-21 at 12:14 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2017-11-21, 01:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
1 - evil people do have feelings and care for loved ones. Love is not inherently evil. Sabine, for example, is a being born of evil, but loves Nale.
2 - He tricked the shopkeep into having loss in a sale, by selling him the product at half price. Refusing to go on a date with her is not necessarily a good act.
3 - To blame oneself is not inherently evil.
4 - The first time he was surprised with the pain (he did not expect it). I don't think he is less uncomfortable, I just think he is more prepared for the pain.
But I do agree with you that he is faking less.
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2017-11-21, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
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2017-11-21, 02:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
Last edited by Fyraltari; 2017-11-21 at 02:55 PM.
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2017-11-21, 03:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
I always think that Belkar is not "only" less evil, but that he's wiser. I wait to see if he'll ever cast a spell.
Being wiser means being less evil for him, we saw it in early strips. He is evil now, yes, but it's different being an evil mass murderer who live to make other suffer, and being an evil antihero who makes more evil guys suffer while saving the world.
Spoiler: don't read this if you like to discuss on the forum
oh, and Belkie won't die
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2017-11-21, 04:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2010
Re: Belkar's Character Development?
Yeah, I think his wisdom score increased some. Not enough for him to be neutral, but enough so that he behaves in way that actually benefit him in the long-term.
There are really people who argue that he's neutral? It has been a running gag that he is evil ever since that spell against good-aligned people didn't affect him. And he's still visibly affected by his protection from evil clasp. (To me it looks like he is extra angry at the vampires because they forced him to activate this item and be hurt by it)
It is an interesting philosophical question whether he can become neutral by mere conditioning - he is fully aware that the clasp only hurts him because he is evil, and becoming less evil would be the wisest course of action. But does it "count" if he only does it to avoid pain?
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2017-11-21, 07:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
I'm of the opinion that the reason Rich had Belkar get a protection from evil item is to prove whether or not he's evil every time he uses it.
Whether or not we'll ever see it not burning him, I can't say, though I still hold hope that it will happen. It will likely be while in the process of making a heroic sacrifice, or directly after doing so, if it ever comes to pass.
Or it could still burn him, even as he does make such a sacrifice, just to drive home the point of how hard it is to come back from the type of evil Belkar has engaged in.Last edited by RatElemental; 2017-11-21 at 07:04 PM.
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2017-11-21, 07:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
Imagine if Belkar somehow actually ends up turning Good. I can see Roy's next review when he dies again: Deva: "Roy, when I put down your association with Belkar Bitterleaf as an attempt to redeem and evildoer, I never guessed that you'd actually manage to pull it off! Congratulations!"
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2017-11-21, 07:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
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2017-11-21, 07:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
Alignment shift is not the same as redemption however.
I believe that Belkar is currently truly commited to saving Durkon and his reasons are above revenge or defying Roy. He truly cares for Durkon now, something totaly unimaginable few hundred strips ago. If it is enough to shift him to CN I don´t know, but i do certainly enjoy this new Belkar.
He does seem to act with much more wisdom than he used to - the pyramid escape, getting the ring despite it hurts him etc.
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2017-11-21, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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2017-11-22, 07:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
Yeah, kinda messed the words up there, that's what I meant. Thanks for helping out! :)
Love is not on the good/bad spectrum. Love is just love, and it can fuel good altruistic emotions, as well as evil ones.
Originally Posted by Themrys
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2017-11-22, 07:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
A genuine change in outlook and attitude is one of the most important steps towards redemption. It's one Belkar is still stumbling on though, and I sort of doubt we'll ever see him fully take it. Fully expect that clasp to only confirm he's evil right to the end, but Rich has surprised me before.
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2017-11-22, 08:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2017-11-22, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
When that alignment shift is going north on the good-evil axis is it not ?
Belkar has recently realized that there's nothing inherently funny in the death of a good man.
Belkar becoming nicer is but a symptom of his newfound caring for others. Very little caring to very few others indeed but that's still a step in the right direction. I don't believe there is such a thing as a truly evil person (no, not even the one you are thinking of right now) and that anyone can redeem themselves for what they did (yes even that one) even if very few do. That's my worldview, not necessarily the Giant's but since he intends this comic to express his views about the world, I strongly suspect that if the Giant thinks redemption ispossible for any and everyone then Belkar will find his, and if he does not believe that he will not. And I trust the Giant to deliver a great story either way.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2017-11-22, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
I think you are confusing love with desire, but I'll not derail in that direction since Belkar loves only Belkar, and maybe Mr Scruffy. He desires hookers, apparently.
Originally Posted by RatElementalLast edited by KorvinStarmast; 2017-11-22 at 12:41 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2017-11-22, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2017-11-22, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
Oh yeah, such good friends these two.
Seriously though. I am not arguing that Belkar is good man (because he is not) I am arguing that people can change and that he is better than he was before he first set foot in Azure City.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2017-11-22, 12:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
Belkar Knows that That Isn't Durkon. He was friends with Durkon, and he knows / senses that the vamp isn't Durkon. He saw the whole conversion process.
On a more humorous note, more evidence that he knows it isn't Durkon ... last panel.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2017-11-22 at 12:59 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2017-11-22, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2017-11-22, 01:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2017-11-22, 03:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2017-11-22, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Last edited by Fyraltari; 2017-11-22 at 04:25 PM.
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2017-11-22, 04:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
Sabine is literally formed out of evil. Sabine was very much in love with Nale.
Love won't be Belk's salvation, especially not romantic love. As to whether he crosses that fine line between E and N on the alignment chart, that's more up in the air. Safe money says it'll either be immediately before his ultimate demise (probably powered by the same decision that causes said demise), or else that his death will happen before his northward progress reaches that point.
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2017-11-22, 05:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
While I think that Sabine, being wholly evil, looks at love as possession, I appreciate that there are other ways to see her "on camera" actions. (See about about minute 2:00 on the music video). I see Sabine taking a very proprietary interest in Nale, even though she points out to him that she has intimate relations with great frequency when they are not together. (Which is semi understandable, with her being a succubus ...)
So I've Learned That Love's Not Possession
And I've Learned That Love Won't Wait
Now I've Learned That Love Needs Expression
But I Learned Too Late
See also this lovely poem.
Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2017-11-22 at 05:27 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2017-11-22, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
I tend to believe Nale and Sabine when they say they're Evil but their relationship is healthy.
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2017-11-22, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar's Character Development?
They litterally have to sacrifice people to make it work. That's not healthy.
Last edited by Fyraltari; 2017-11-22 at 05:41 PM.
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2017-11-22, 05:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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