Of Freemasons, Flat Earth and Steampunk

[Anonymouswizard]

If anyone is willing to see a Flat Earther in action. Here's a video of one of them "debunking" the Vsauce video on the subject.

God, why did I decide to watch this? I started to get annoyed at the bridge, the argument wasn't that the bridge was curved, the argument was that the towers were build perfectly straight (within an acceptable margin of error, so a few percents of a percent) and perpendicular to the Earth (again, to within a reasonable margin of error), and there was a measurable difference in the distance at the top and the bottom.

Then we got to the point of him to the point where he began to say that the flat earth theories used by Vsauce are wrong and literally no flat earthers believe them, despite the fact they're still being shared this year (and in flat earth sects unrelated to Flat Earth Society). Then the density explanation he gives DOESN'T WORK WITHOUT GRAVITY.


With regards to the rocket launch, I also read it as him claiming to have converted in order to get funding. I suspect he fully knows how insignificant the height he plans to reach is, but just wants to build steam powered rockets. Well I wish him good luck, and hope he survives (has the launch happened yet? I can't remember how time zones work).

EDIT: I had a brief look at the comments section and saw someone mentioning that apparently the ice wall couldn't be solid all the way to the ocean floor. I like it when people try to apply science from a completely illogical starting point and do good.

[wumpus]

1,800 feet? He does realise he could quite easily see the Earth from 30,000 feet plus if he just booked an airline flight with a window seat? Or from 14,115 feet if he just took a trip to the top of Pikes Peak...

Pikes Peak looms over a ~5,000 foot plain, so you get less than 9,000 feet of vertical. Still higher than 14,000.

And if you want to take pictures to prove the Earth is flat, you really need to fly a plane out and take pictures of the edge. Anything less won't qualify as proof.

[Blackhawk748]

Why did I read "California" as "Florida"?

Because its getting increasingly harder to tell the difference between the two?

Also, why is it always the Freemasons?

[The Glyphstone]

Because its getting increasingly harder to tell the difference between the two?

Also, why is it always the Freemasons?

Because the Illuminati are out of style.

[Blackhawk748]

Because the Illuminati are out of style.

But arent the Illuminati the "new ones"? Hell, why don't they just blame the New World Order?

[Emperor Ing]

You can book skydiving for like...$200 or $300 and get up to at least 10,000 ft easy. There, you can get as good a look at the horizon as you want, without having to die as you'll have an experienced instructor controlling the parachute tied to your back.

[pendell]

Update: The launch is postponed till next week .

The article is seriously funny.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[aspi]

y'know, if I tried to sell this script in Hollywood it would be rejected as implausible. But hey, THIS IS A-MERICA!

While your movie would be somewhat of a slightly crazy remake of Astronaut Farmer, I don't think your chances are as bad as you think...

[Anonymouswizard]

While your movie would be somewhat of a slightly crazy remake of Astronaut Farmer, I don't think your chances are as bad as you think...

I have a hard time believing that movie exists.

But as it does, who wants to write the script to Mad Mike: Journey to the Atmosflat? Depending on how the launch goes we might have to delay it a decade or two so as not to be disrespectful, but I think there's potential!.

[Murk]

I'm genuinely curious as to what would happen in this man's mind if he somehow managed to climb high enough to see the Earth's roundness with his own eyes (and survive). I'd put about fifty-fifty on tacking on a conspiratorial excuse ("freemasons rigged my goggles!") or having a breakdown as he realizes his entire belief system is built around a lie.

I remember a quite popular Flat Earther, who had put up some popular youtube videos "debunking" the Round Earth and got himself a solid fanbase, who, after a while, realised that he was mistaken. I found it very impressive that he could admit to himself that he had been wrong all this time.
Interesting enough, he was still a conspiracy theorist at heart, so the next few youtube videos were about the Flat Earth conspiracy - about their lies and hidden agendas and how they had brainwashed him. In essence, the exact same things he used to say about NASA, "the government" and teachers, he said now about his ex-fellow Flat Earthers.

(I can't remember the poor guy's name. Even though I adore the Flat Earthers, I can't actually take them serious).

[An Enemy Spy]

You realize that if this guy comes away believing in Round Earth, then all the Flat Earthers will disown him as part of the conspiracy trying to trick them, right?

[The Glyphstone]

You realize that if this guy comes away believing in Round Earth, then all the Flat Earthers will disown him as part of the conspiracy trying to trick them, right?

If we are correct about his motives, he couldn't care less. He already got their money.

[Anonymouswizard]

If we are correct about his motives, he couldn't care less. He already got their money.

It depends on how many rockets he wants to launch, he might have to keep claiming to be a believer.

[SirKazum]

It depends on how many rockets he wants to launch, he might have to keep claiming to be a believer.

"I saw a completely flat Earth from up there, but my camera didn't survive the trip! I need your help to fund a better camera and a higher-altitude rocket to REALLY settle the issue this time!"

[snowblizz]

Update: The launch is postponed till next week .

The article is seriously funny.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

mechanical problems with his "motorhome/rocket launcher"

Aw, man. Who could have forseen that his motohorhome slash rocket launcher would suffer from that? Except everyone. And the fact that the words motorhome+rocket launcher is in itself a mechanical problem.

While I do respect the enthusiastic amateur a fair bit, it's not jokingly called "not like rocketscience" for a reason. This is one of those (many) things where it matters whether you are an expert or not.

[Lord Joeltion]

A frozen alien city populated entirely by shoggoths?

TEKELI-LI!!! TEKELI-LI!!!

Aw, man. Who could have forseen that his motohorhome slash rocket launcher would suffer from that? Except everyone. And the fact that the words motorhome+rocket launcher is in itself a mechanical problem.

While I do respect the enthusiastic amateur a fair bit, it's not jokingly called "not like rocketscience" for a reason. This is one of those (many) things where it matters whether you are an expert or not.

Nobody appreciated it when the FAA and bureaucracy finally saves someone's life

I can't stop trying to imagine their faces when the Suicide-Air-Cigarrete broke down after they were denied the permits. It's clear there's a Guardian Angel for Flat Earthers, and he sits atop the FAA

[HandofShadows]

Nobody appreciated it when the FAA and bureaucracy finally saves someone's life

I'm sure there are a LOT of people that appreciate the FAA. It's the people that want to make a quick buck and don't care that people get hurt/killed that don't like the FAA.

[wumpus]

I remember a quite popular Flat Earther, who had put up some popular youtube videos "debunking" the Round Earth and got himself a solid fanbase, who, after a while, realised that he was mistaken. I found it very impressive that he could admit to himself that he had been wrong all this time.
Interesting enough, he was still a conspiracy theorist at heart, so the next few youtube videos were about the Flat Earth conspiracy - about their lies and hidden agendas and how they had brainwashed him. In essence, the exact same things he used to say about NASA, "the government" and teachers, he said now about his ex-fellow Flat Earthers.

(I can't remember the poor guy's name. Even though I adore the Flat Earthers, I can't actually take them serious).

That's seriously impressive. Scientific advocates of competing theories (i.e. actual "scientists") rarely break down and admit that opposing theories are conclusive (such as plate tectonics). I wonder if he was cured (or at least at symptom relief or some form of recovery) of some form of mental illness.

[LordEntrails]

That's seriously impressive. Scientific advocates of competing theories (i.e. actual "scientists") rarely break down and admit that opposing theories are conclusive (such as plate tectonics). I wonder if he was cured (or at least at symptom relief or some form of recovery) of some form of mental illness.

The title "Ancient Astronaut Theorist" just came to my mind. Thanks for bringing a smile to my face, even if due to something like this.

[Keltest]

Honestly, I really hope he succeeds, just because I want to live in a world where dreams as absurd as getting airborne on a rocket made out of a water boiler can come true.

[UristMcRandom]

Personally, I want him to go through with it.
I mean, he shouldn't, obviously. And if I should ever meet him, I'll say that right to his face; "DON'T DO THIS!". But deep down, in my heart of hearts, I want him to. Not because I think stupid people like this deserve to die for their stupidity, as I rather hope he survives. Not even because I want someone to prove to the flat-earthers that they're morons, because the moment he admits seeing a curve, he'll be one of the elusive "Them".
No, I just want him to do it because I want it to happen. I want to live in a world where people go to space on steam-powered rocket ships they built in their garage, launched from modified RVs ("space" here being defined as "slightly above sea level, geographically speaking").

You go, crackpot steampunk rocketman. I believe in you. Please seek psychiatric assistance immediately.

Okay, I know I'm a page late and a dollar short, but can I sig at least part of this?

[pendell]

Honestly, I really hope he succeeds, just because I want to live in a world where dreams as absurd as getting airborne on a rocket made out of a water boiler can come true.

Well, the logical thing for him to do if the FAA is persistent is to take his show on the road to some other country with, shall we say, less stringent rules. Get a good international lawyer and try someplace in Central America, perhaps.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Lord Joeltion]

I'm sure there are a LOT of people that appreciate the FAA. It's the people that want to make a quick buck and don't care that people get hurt/killed that don't like the FAA.

I mean, yes, technically when they shut down a dangerous company they are saving lots of anonymous lives. But I'm suspicious they are doing it for the statistics more than for philanthropic reasons

That's seriously impressive. Scientific advocates of competing theories (i.e. actual "scientists") rarely break down and admit that opposing theories are conclusive (such as plate tectonics). I wonder if he was cured (or at least at symptom relief or some form of recovery) of some form of mental illness.

Unless "bigotry" and "illiteracy" are now categorized as mental illnesses, I don't think becoming anti-scientific has anything to do with having a pathology. You can be sane and stupid, y'know?

Well, the logical thing for him to do if the FAA is persistent is to take his show on the road to some other country with, shall we say, less stringent rules. Get a good international lawyer and try someplace in Central America, perhaps.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

But if he traveled to Central America, high chances are he would end up way above the 1,800 feet (over the "horizon" *). And I'm sure nobody wants that to happen

*Is it still an "horizon" if it's technically just another geographical border? Are "horizons" required to be merely conceptual entities? What is the point of calling the line over a fence a "horizon"?

[Strigon]

Okay, I know I'm a page late and a dollar short, but can I sig at least part of this?

But of course!
Take any part(s) you like.

[Mikemical]

Bit of a small update, they're shutting his project down because it will possibly endanger pretty much everyone nearby, including himself. This will only give Flat-Earthers more fuel to go "THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T WANT YOU TO KNOW!"

If they'd let him go through with it, and predictably killed himself because he likely has the same understanding of rocket science and physics as he has on the planet's shape, Flat-Earthers would've gone and said "THE GOVERNMENT SABOTAGED HIS ROCKET!"

If he went through with it and managed to survive, and said the earth was round, Flat-Earthers would've gone "THE GOVERNMENT BRIBED HIM!"

If he went through with it, survived, and said the earth was flat, Flat-Earthers would've gone "WE TOLD YOU GUYS, WE WERE RIGHT! THIS NUTJOB WHO LAUNCHED HIMSELF 1800 FEET INTO THE AIR JUST PROVED SO!"

It's like no matter what happened, Copernicus and Columbus will still be rolling in their graves.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Columbus

... I'm guessing this refers to the old urban legend that Columbus proved the world was round?

Because it's not true. Irving made it all up. Columbus was quite wrong - he believed the world to be significantly smaller in radius (about a third of the actual number, IIRC) than it was, and everyone in the European courts that he visited were right on the money on its size. Columbus was leading a suicidal mission that would probably have starved in the middle of the Atlanpacific Ocean had there not been a stopping point on the way.

(I have seen hypothesis - although I'm unsure of how well documented - that he might have known about previous voyages having found land and made it back; not necessarily the vikings but ships blown off course and the like - that led Columbus to know there was land within reach of his ships; but he remained convinced pretty much till his death that the land was indeed Japan, rather than a new continent)

GW

[GreatWyrmGold]

1,800 feet? He does realise he could quite easily see the Earth from 30,000 feet plus if he just booked an airline flight with a window seat? Or from 14,115 feet if he just took a trip to the top of Pikes Peak...

NASA didn't send a man to the Moon with their first rocket. This is probably just a proof-of-concept, something he can be confident works before going up hundreds of thousands of feet.

Why did I read "California" as "Florida"?

Location: Finland

They're both states known for weird antics, along with the likes of Texas and (to a lesser extent) Washington, DC. However, (southern) California and Florida also have other factors in common, including warm weather, beaches, and several letters.

I note that he had this project up and running already and was getting very little funding for it -- then he "converted" to flat eartherism and made the rocket launch about proving their claims, and suddenly the funding floodgates opened.
Perhaps I'm naive, but I think he's a lot more serious about rocketry than flat-eartherism ; that looks more like a convenient marketing ploy to get flat-earther conspiracists to pay his bills. Which worked. PT Barnum, wherever he is, would be proud .
I believe he really is serious about launching in this rocket -- the flat earther bit , by contrast, looks to me more like a conversion of convenience to get more funding.

I have several conflicting feelings about this. Bemusement in humanity, disappointment in humanity, slightly elevated hopes for California Man's survival...

The problem isn't necessarily that they don't listen. The problem is that they are convinced "Ball Earth" is a lie and all of the evidence that says otherwise is fabricated. Thus it doesn't really matter what you tell them to convince them otherwise. The "evidence" that you provide simply doesn't exist as you believe it to and you've been convinced by a lie.

It's a problem with all conspiracy theorists, really.

If anyone is willing to see a Flat Earther in action. Here's a video of one of them "debunking" the Vsauce video on the subject.

2 minutes into the video I felt my IQ (or was it sanity?) silently slipping away... It just boggles the mind the logic behind this "movement" (is it a number 2?)... Needles to say, as soon as he got to 'Curvizon', for the sake of my mental well being, I had to slip back into this side of reality and close that link.

I prefer to get my conspiracy theorist kicks from videos like this one, where the face-smashingly bad logic and pseudoscience is broken up by someone who also wants to smash their face in. RationalWiki is also good for that kind of thing, though you don't get clips of the original (obviously).

I'm a Darwinist. I have no problem when stupid kill themselves doing stupid things. Better that than procreate and spread stupidity.

As a bio major, and someone who learns about history for fun, it bugs me a bit when people say things like this. Sure, it's a joke, but this simplification of what evolution by natural selection means, translated from descriptive to prescriptive, has become widespread in the past, damaging both society and its perception of the sciences.

[wumpus]

... I'm guessing this refers to the old urban legend that Columbus proved the world was round?

Because it's not true. Irving made it all up. Columbus was quite wrong - he believed the world to be significantly smaller in radius (about a third of the actual number, IIRC) than it was, and everyone in the European courts that he visited were right on the money on its size. Columbus was leading a suicidal mission that would probably have starved in the middle of the Atlanpacific Ocean had there not been a stopping point on the way.

(I have seen hypothesis - although I'm unsure of how well documented - that he might have known about previous voyages having found land and made it back; not necessarily the vikings but ships blown off course and the like - that led Columbus to know there was land within reach of his ships; but he remained convinced pretty much till his death that the land was indeed Japan, rather than a new continent)

GW

As far as I know, only the Portuguese *knew* the correct size of the Earth (so would anybody else who sailed long distances by "running the latitudes"*). What gets me is that the texts that they were arguing about include exactly how Eratosthenes measured the size of the Earth (you would have to make some adjustments since he had the advantage of using a spot on the equator). They certainly had enough time to send someone from Madrid to Toledo to check the angle of the Sun vs. Madrid (and thus check the size of the planet), but nobody bothered (unless they got the distance between Toledo and Madrid very, very wrong).

[scrubbed]

* I'd expect some resistance from those who only sailed shorter distances by "running the latitudes". It might have been a more common trick than I've heard, and one of the reasons nobody listened to Columbus.

[Leecros]

It's a problem with all conspiracy theorists, really.

But Flat Earthers take it to an extreme and deny(or completely misunderstand) very basic scientific principles such as gravity.

If he went through with it, survived, and said the earth was flat, Flat-Earthers would've gone "WE TOLD YOU GUYS, WE WERE RIGHT! THIS NUTJOB WHO LAUNCHED HIMSELF 1800 FEET INTO THE AIR JUST PROVED SO!"

Of course, they would also ignore the very simple fact that you would have to go much much higher to have a chance of detect the curvature of the earth.

Sometimes i wonder if many Flat Earthers just simply can't comprehend the size and scope of the Planet Earth.

[GreatWyrmGold]

But Flat Earthers take it to an extreme and deny(or completely misunderstand) very basic scientific principles such as gravity.

So do Creationists and others in that hazy area between psudoscientist and conspiracy theorist.