Okay, let me pitch Dominions 5 to you

[Grif]

In case you still need a sub I can do it in a pinch. One of my game just ended.

[Olinser]

I've got to back out, I'm very sorry but something's come up and I really can't promise the time commitment even for a PBEM game.

Actually that might work out - I talked to Hicks last night and he said that he had misunderstood the game and wasn't interested in a Disciples game - if he wants to confirm that I could just pair with Manti then and we'll just have 1 less team.

[Vitruviansquid]

Teams by nation draft order:

1st Team C-Hicks+Olinser
2nd Team E-Vitruviansquid +Sen isSaqqara
3rd Team A-Thrantar-hellbug
4th Team B-Ionbound+Knaight
5th Team F-Otomodachi +Manticoran
6th Team D-Nadevoc+deuterio12


So Team C (Hicks+Olinser) please pick one nation. You can decide later which of you actually plays that nation. Then we move forward in order and the last team (mine, yay) will pick two nations right away in return for picking last, then we go in reverse order until everybody has picked two nations.

Alright, works for me...

Beats me fumbling around with this for an embarrassingly long time.

[Nadevoc]

So now the question is which slot do they take in the draft order - Olinser's or Manti's?

Coin flip to decide?

[Olinser]

So now the question is which slot do they take in the draft order - Olinser's or Manti's?

Coin flip to decide?

By my highly scientific and totally unbiased outcome, my RNG says we will take Manti's (4th) position in the draft.

[Nadevoc]

Actually, that's probably the better outcome, since it gives you two a bit of time to discuss nations.

So (assuming everyone accepts this totally random outcome) it's Vitruviansquad/Sen isSaggara's turn to pick

[deuterio12]

I can agree with that, Vitruviansquad/Sen isSaggara please pick one nation.

[Deakins2658]

I think so

[Sen isSaqqara]

Hey VitruvianSquid, one or zero?

[Olinser]

Hey VitruvianSquid, one or zero?

He chooses TAILS

[Sen isSaqqara]

He chooses TAILS

I've talked to him in private messages, and we'll take Vanheim for him.

[The Hellbug]

Sweet, Thrantar and I will take Pangaea.

[Knaight]

Ionbound and I are snagging Marignon.

[Manticoran]

Sorry to throw another wrench in the plans, but I never actually said I was up to play a Disciples game. I'm happy to walk someone through how to play over voice/with screen sharing/etc, and think doing that for an entire game would be a lot of fun, but I think doing a Disciples game is actually a pretty lousy way to learn unless you're supplementing with what I said above, at which point it'd be better to just stick all of the people learning in a FFA with their mentors going over their turns with them every time.

That also helps solve the differences in skill between mentors, as it means that as they're not actually directly playing, they can only have as much impact as they can communicate skill to their mentee.

This can be important for expectations for what makes something "competitive".

For instance, I view securing 20-30 provinces by the end of year 1 as a basic prereq for being a high tier nation, and I've found there's quite a few nations in the various ages that can still manage this. If people are coming in used to securing 1 territory a month or something, they're just going to come in and face nations that are 2-3 times their size before the multiplayer part of the game even really starts.

I want to emphasize though, that I think Disciple games are actually a lot MORE complex than standard gameplay, and have a very different meta, due to the things you can do with awake disciples and bless chasis that don't fit on original pretenders.

[deuterio12]

Thing is, in a regular FFA mentees would have a pretty hard time properly informing their mentor of their current situation every round, while in a disciple games you automatically share lots of information so it's much easier to go "you should attack X" or "avoid Y".

And yes disciples works in a slightly different mode than pure ffa, but Dominions 5 just overhauled how the whole bless system works so there really isn't any solid meta now. I would also disagree that they're significantly more complex since having trustworthy allies to share borders and trade with saves a lot of work in contrast to the constant paranoia that is pure ffa, needing to look behind your shoulder all the time in case somebody's about to backstab you.

[Manticoran]

Thing is, in a regular FFA mentees would have a pretty hard time properly informing their mentor of their current situation every round, while in a disciple games you automatically share lots of information so it's much easier to go "you should attack X" or "avoid Y".

And yes disciples works in a slightly different mode than pure ffa, but Dominions 5 just overhauled how the whole bless system works so there really isn't any solid meta now. I would also disagree that they're significantly more complex since having trustworthy allies to share borders and trade with saves a lot of work in contrast to the constant paranoia that is pure ffa, needing to look behind your shoulder all the time in case somebody's about to backstab you.

The complexity of the game is not found I find in knowing what to do, but the right way to do it. Knowing "As MA C'tis, I should seize as much territory as I can early by building nothing but Saurus Warriors and some Poison Slingers, spread dominion, and research almost nothing but Enchantment until I get to Ench5, and then start considering other paths." is not exactly difficult, for instance, but the execution of it, what gods to build, how to script each fight to account for the things you're fighting against, etc, are the more complicated bits, and you really need to share turn files or something like that to really get the right amount of detail.

Perhaps this is a difference in teaching styles or something, but regardless, I'm not up for a Disciples game and never said I was.

[Olinser]

FEAR ME.

My mere presence on a team with them has already removed 2 players from the game. Kneel before me as I continue my rampage!

[Sen isSaqqara]

The complexity of the game is not found I find in knowing what to do, but the right way to do it. Knowing "As MA C'tis, I should seize as much territory as I can early by building nothing but Saurus Warriors and some Poison Slingers, spread dominion, and research almost nothing but Enchantment until I get to Ench5, and then start considering other paths." is not exactly difficult, for instance, but the execution of it, what gods to build, how to script each fight to account for the things you're fighting against, etc, are the more complicated bits, and you really need to share turn files or something like that to really get the right amount of detail.

Perhaps this is a difference in teaching styles or something, but regardless, I'm not up for a Disciples game and never said I was.

I dunno about all this. My partner may not be happy to hear it, but I tend to play more for fun than for the competition. I feel like this should be a more friendly game, and that worrying too much about the meta and whatnot are only going to get in the way of everyone having fun. I mean, it's not going to stop me from trying my best to win, but I'm not super worried about it. You win some, you lose some, you know?

[lord_khaine]

Whats peoples stance on Middle Age Rhylth Void gate summoning?
Is it something thats actually viable to invest in. Or is it just a fun gimmick to get rid of Starspawns who dont show the propper amount of respect for their god?

[Nadevoc]

I dunno about all this. My partner may not be happy to hear it, but I tend to play more for fun than for the competition. I feel like this should be a more friendly game, and that worrying too much about the meta and whatnot are only going to get in the way of everyone having fun. I mean, it's not going to stop me from trying my best to win, but I'm not super worried about it. You win some, you lose some, you know?

This is pretty much my stance, too. I think with 4X games, there's always going to be a skill gap, and some people will be taking it more seriously than others. And as a novice, I'm ready to under perform as I learn.



So what's the plan if we're at an odd number now?

[Olinser]

This is pretty much my stance, too. I think with 4X games, there's always going to be a skill gap, and some people will be taking it more seriously than others. And as a novice, I'm ready to under perform as I learn.



So what's the plan if we're at an odd number now?

I mean its kind of up to the rest of you guys. I could be on a team by myself, or since I think we have 9 players now we could do 3 teams of 3.

[Nadevoc]

Shifting you to a solo team would obviously be simplest, with you keeping the current draft position. But that only works if you're cool with being the only team of one. If you'd rather not, that's understandable. Perhaps break up the Hellbug/Thrantar duo and distribute you and them amongst the other three teams? Since they're listed as neither mentor or mentee, seems to me like that would make sense. In that case, we would probably want to redraft.

[Glimbur]

I could be a mentor. Maybe I should not sign up for a second game but it should be fine!

[Vitruviansquid]

When I started this thread, the purpose I had in mind was to create a way to integrate players who are interested in this game into a multiplayer community. I think this purpose would not be achieved by simply having a free for all game with experienced players and inexperienced ones. At the same time, experienced players in this thread can organize their own games, or wait on the sidelines until this game finishes, and such.

Since it looks a few people want to play Dominions, but just aren't willing to play Disciples in Dominions, how about this instead:

Everybody who has never played a multiplayer game of Dominions play a free-for-all game, non-Disciples.

Volunteers who have previously played a multiplayer game of Dominions who want to be mentors can hook up with a player and give them advice throughout the game by way of private messages, while not playing the game.

And this sucks for the experienced people who wanted to play a game - but maybe think of it as an investment. Initiate a group of new players into the community to play with them in the future?

[Olinser]

Shifting you to a solo team would obviously be simplest, with you keeping the current draft position. But that only works if you're cool with being the only team of one. If you'd rather not, that's understandable. Perhaps break up the Hellbug/Thrantar duo and distribute you and them amongst the other three teams? Since they're listed as neither mentor or mentee, seems to me like that would make sense. In that case, we would probably want to redraft.

Completely up to you guys I'm fine either way.

I would like to point out that this confusion is exactly why we started the draft a week before the start date

If yall decide I'll be on my own I think I'll go with Jotunheim, if I'm on a team I'd need to consult with them first.


By the way - for newer players if you're unaware it may be worth while checking out the manual HERE, it breaks down some of the differences between Dom 4 and Dom 5 and gives a good overview of a lot of the game.

[Nadevoc]

When I started this thread, the purpose I had in mind was to create a way to integrate players who are interested in this game into a multiplayer community. I think this purpose would not be achieved by simply having a free for all game with experienced players and inexperienced ones. At the same time, experienced players in this thread can organize their own games, or wait on the sidelines until this game finishes, and such.

Since it looks a few people want to play Dominions, but just aren't willing to play Disciples in Dominions, how about this instead:

Everybody who has never played a multiplayer game of Dominions play a free-for-all game, non-Disciples.

Volunteers who have previously played a multiplayer game of Dominions who want to be mentors can hook up with a player and give them advice throughout the game by way of private messages, while not playing the game.

And this sucks for the experienced people who wanted to play a game - but maybe think of it as an investment. Initiate a group of new players into the community to play with them in the future?

Honestly, as a new player, I'd really prefer going with the team game. It would be great to have a built-in advisor to discuss strategy with, who gets to see much of what you're doing and offer tips, etc. I don't find having an out-of-game mentor to give the same experience, and often actually amplifies the skill gap, since some new people tend to be more or less proxies for their mentors, while others only take a few tips.

[deuterio12]

I mean its kind of up to the rest of you guys. I could be on a team by myself, or since I think we have 9 players now we could do 3 teams of 3.

I could be a mentor. Maybe I should not sign up for a second game but it should be fine!

Ok, sounds to me like we have another mentor for Olinser then. Nobody else seems to be specifically against a disciple match (and players like Nadevoc actually prefer it) so I say Olisen and Glimbur pick their first nation and we keep the draft going instead of restarting everything.

[Olinser]

Ok, sounds to me like we have another mentor for Olinser then. Nobody else seems to be specifically against a disciple match (and players like Nadevoc actually prefer it) so I say Olisen and Glimbur pick their first nation and we keep the draft going instead of restarting everything.

Legitimately curious how you got 'Olisen' from 'Olinser'. That's... actually pretty impressive for a typo.

[Nadevoc]

Olinser and Glimbur, can you two confer and either confirm you're going with Jotunheim, or else give us your new choice?

[Olinser]

Olinser and Glimbur, can you two confer and either confirm you're going with Jotunheim, or else give us your new choice?

Shot him a message, waiting on a response before we pick for sure.