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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    If not dipping hex, two levels of fighter is a strong option. Action surge is great, in particular allowung you to cast fear, and then wrathful smite if something passed its save all in the same turn.
    The pursuit of knowledge requires a mind unfettered by the petty constraints of ethics, faith, or ... mortality.

  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Malisteen View Post
    If not dipping hex, two levels of fighter is a strong option. Action surge is great, in particular allowung you to cast fear, and then wrathful smite if something passed its save all in the same turn.
    Indeed, that sounds potent. But the question is, Is it really necessary? Imagine upon reaching level 20 (which happens rarely), Damn, having that capstone would be fun!

    And I know, the same thing could be said for life as well, enjoy and live in the now, instead of waiting to become enjoyable and fun later, since later may not come.(campaigns end and once they reach 20th lvl, that's it, finito) XD

    That's the only reason why dipping sounds alluring, it brings fun and happiness to NOW :D
    Last edited by BrusLi; 2018-06-02 at 08:46 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Malisteen View Post
    If not dipping hex, two levels of fighter is a strong option. Action surge is great, in particular allowung you to cast fear, and then wrathful smite if something passed its save all in the same turn.
    Is wrathful smite a bonus action spell? If so and if fear is a leveld spell then you cannot do both in the same round with action surge. You could use two action based spells but once you use a bonus action spell none of the other spells can have a level.
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  4. - Top - End - #184
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Bsh, you're right. Ugh that restriction is dumb and terrible. Wrll, you can use uoir channel divinity, i guess.
    The pursuit of knowledge requires a mind unfettered by the petty constraints of ethics, faith, or ... mortality.

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Hello everyone,

    Wanted to play a conquest paladin for a while, and I'm finally getting the chance.

    This guide has been super helpful, and i wanted to contribute one thing :

    The 2nd level in hexblade brings one huge things through invocations : grasp of hadar is an invocation from XGTE that allow you to pull the targets of your EB 10" closer to you.

    Meaning that you can effectively control a baddy even if decide yo ignore you by frightening him and then moving him within your aura. And control is a huge part of the conquest contribution to the group.
    Works specially well if you are using the sentinel feat.

    I think it is worth mentioning.
    Last edited by Coranhann; 2018-06-15 at 04:53 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #186
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Coranhann View Post
    Hello everyone,

    Wanted to play a conquest paladin for a while, and I'm finally getting the chance.

    This guide has been super helpful, and i wanted to contribute one thing :

    The 2nd level in hexblade brings one huge things through invocations : grasp of hadar is an invocation from XGTE that allow you to pull the targets of your EB 10" closer to you.

    Meaning that you can effectively control a baddy even if decide yo ignore you by frightening him and then moving him within your aura. And control is a huge part of the conquest contribution to the group.

    I think it is worth mentioning.
    Worthy indeed.

    Control-wise, which other invocations could help?
    "Bend your knee! While you still have a knee to bend!

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    I just realized one major flaw of the conquest...

    Even though the creatures are unable to move and frightened of you and have bunch of disadvantages.. they can still take dodge action to ruin your day @_@
    Last edited by BrusLi; 2018-06-19 at 05:09 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by BrusLi View Post
    I just realized one major flaw of the conquest...

    Even though the creatures are unable to move and frightened of you and have bunch of disadvantages.. they can still take dodge action to ruin your day @_@

    I've gotten a revamped moment on my old pure conquest character and have decided to go the Shadow Sorc method.

    I have done a lot of thinking but as so many have said Conquest is about control and I want to keep that theme. Hexblade is more smashy and durability with the hex curse and the Shield spell. Conquest is already a slightly dark path for a paladin and while the above dragobon paladin mentioned has a big heart thats all fine. But to your enemies the only thing they should see is the deepest pits of the Nine Hells in your eyes.

    As the guide recommends dipping 4 levels of Shadow sorc, while knee-capping end game perks like your 30ft aura and the lv 20 capstone. You get so much more.

    120ft Darkvision is really good (especially if dragonborn)
    The Char save to have the chance you don't fall unconscious. (offers more endurance)
    Meta-magic and Cantrips
    - Booming blade
    - Twinned spell
    - Quickened spell
    The ability to create more spell slots for extra smites plus you can take Shield & absorb elements on top of fun things like mirror image, alter self or misty step.

    I'm lucky enough to be at the point where I can go Conquest 8 and Sorc 3 (you can live without fear for a level or two when your spreading around booming blade or using Lighting lure to yank things towards you.)

    The key here though is twinning Booming blade with a wrathful smite. This combo is great and even when you run into those fights where fear is immune you have some really good battle control tools to make sure enemies don't move as you wish. And if you can a reach weapon with the Sentinel feat (PAM not needed) and you have a very battlefield heavy control tank.
    Last edited by Davrix; 2018-06-19 at 08:58 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Thanks for the awesome guide! You inspired me to make a high-power NPC in my campaign. I'm using the map of Westeros and I'm making the lord of the Dreadfort a Dragonborn Conqueror now. Perfect!

  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by ZenBear View Post
    Thanks for the awesome guide! You inspired me to make a high-power NPC in my campaign. I'm using the map of Westeros and I'm making the lord of the Dreadfort a Dragonborn Conqueror now. Perfect!

    This is the case where a 2 lv dip into Hexblade would be hella fun. Give him pact of the tome to steal booming or green flame bade, the find familiar spell for spying and take the Invocation where you never have to sleep.

    Total intimidation factor

    What do you mean the leader of the Dreadfort never sleeps?
    Last edited by Davrix; 2018-06-20 at 07:21 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    I just want to say that this is an amazing guide. I sort of shrugged off Conquest on paper, but now It's literally my favorite Paladin subclass, and if I ever feel like playing a total a**hole, this will be my first choice.

  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Really love this thread. Had not given much thought to the Oath of Conquest Path but I am now for my next character.

    Liking the Hexblade dip(@Lv2) to get help with MAD of a typical Pally.

    Still on the fence for 3 different builds all with the same level path in mind Conquest 9/Hexblade 1. Conquest Paladins key feature comes online so late that I'm struggling to pick a path. Anything that I feel would provide some flexibility(feats or multiclass) just delays those key Conquest 7/9 levels.

    Here are 3 builds I'm looking at. All likely Sword/Board

    V Human - Bonus Feat(?) + 2 ASI - 15/8/15/8/10/20
    Half Elf - Elf Accur. + 1ASI - 13/14/15/8/8/20
    Fallen Aasimar - Menacing + 1 ASI - 15/8/14/8/12/20

    Questions:

    For the Human, I'm having a hard time choosing a feat. Heavy Armor Master is my first choice for true tankiness. Was planning on taking Resilent Con at Lv13 but perhaps Warcaster at Lv1 is a better choice? Finding the 1h Pact Blade hampers my choices somewhat as I would probably pick PAM or Sentinel. Any other suggestions for the human bonus feat here? Shield Mastery no long works as well with recent bonus action order rulings right?

    I like the half elf build as it feels more robust. Low initiative and bad dex saves can be troublesome. My question is how often I would actually get getting advantage on attacks to make use of Elven Accuracy. My plan was to use Fear, knock prone and aura lockdown the BBEG applying damage over time + smites via crit fishing with Hex + Elven Accuracy. With a low strength can I really expect to knock that many foes prone? I'm having difficulty envisioning how to do a non-STR/DEX based knockdown without going Hexblade5(Eldritch smite). Maybe folks who have played a bit more with medium armor Conquest Paladins can fill me in on the better mechanics to use? All of them seem to involve yet more feats that the build is already starved for or more multiclass levels. I just can't see any reasonable way to get something useful online before Lv10.

    For Fallen Aasimar I mainly love the flavor of the build. Menacing just meshes so well with the grim warrior who has turned his back on his heritage. An aasimar who has turned his back those cruel puppet masters of the planes. He wants to drive out all extra-planar interference from the prime material plane. He verbally browbeats enemies causing them to lose faith in themselves and their gods. That aside, is menacing that useful in actual combat to be worth it? It's a continuously available source of fear saving you uses of wrathful smite or Channel Divinity. You have to give up half your damage output and it is only effective against humanoids.

    The odds look very good(75%+ for vast majority of enemies) for able being to get menacing to land and for you to sustain it is almost guaranteed once they are frightened of you. Do you just keeping spending attacks to put the fear in the worst threat each turn locking them in place but out of range of you? If anyone has a real combat example of how menacing can work please let me know. Seems like it is only really effective against melee only humanoids.
    Last edited by Wildarm; 2018-06-26 at 02:24 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #193
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    War Caster is not a valid human bonus feat for a first level paladin, because of the prerequisite to actually be a spellcaster, which a paladin isn't at first level. You can do it if you start with hexblade at first level, but then you're stuck in medium armor, which means lower AC long term - not by much, but every little bit counts for a tank - and means a more difficult ability spread if you're going points-buy, since 13 strength 14 dex costs more than 15 strength, no dex. Basically, it's going to be the difference between a starting +3 con mod and a starting +2 con mod.

    You can make it work, but it's a bit awkward, and it will cost you both AC and HP in the long run. Not a ton, but a noticeable amount.

    Alternative bonus feats to consider at first level might include heavy armor master (really fantastic if you're playing the character up from level one), resilient [constitution] (it's something most conquerors would eventually want anyway, though those that take warcaster to get full utility out of a hexblade dip generally skip it), and sentinel.

    Regarding Sentinel - I don't think it's been talked about too much in this thread, but sentinel can seem somewhat redundant for a Conqueror once you get your aura, and the speed-cancelling opportunity attacks aspect kind of is. However, the ability to punish enemies who hit your allies with a reaction attack is VERY good for conquerors, as your allies will often want to be clustered right in with you and the monsters trapped in your aura, either because those allies themselves are melee-based or because they just want to take advantage of your aura of protection. Either way, in that case even immobilized enemies will still be able to attack your friends, albeit with disadvantage, and will generally prefer to do so because of your high AC, so... yeah, being able to punish that behavior is a valuable tool.

    ...

    But none of those other feat options really matter, imo, because you mentioned Menacing in the aasimar build. If your DM allows menacing, and there's frankly good reason not to, but IF they allow menacing, then take menacing. Take it as your bonus feat if vuman, and use the stat boost to start with 16s in strength, con, and cha at level 1. Take it as your first ASI if not human. Take it no matter what your race or build is otherwise. Take it instead of elven accuracy in the half elf build. Elven accuracy is good for a conqueror (and you'd get plenty of advantage to use it with after level seven via knocking frightened enemies prone in your aura), but Menacing is far and away the better charisma boosting half-feat for conquerors of any race if it's available.

    An at-will, no-resource, no-concentration, check-resisted source of frighten is absolute gold, even if it only affects a single target and only lasts a single round. It doesn't beat out Fear as a combat opener against hoards, but it will often be better than the already-great wrathful smite against single targets, as it's harder to resist, doesn't burn your concentration, doesn't take a spell slot, and doesn't take a bonus action. Not taking a bonus action lets you use it in the same turn as you cast spiritual weapon, or as a hexblade dip you can use it in the same turn as casting Hex (potentially imposing disadvantage on that first check to resist being menaced even before they're frightened) or using hexblade's curse.

    Again, there are reasons not to allow it. It can be awkward to role play, it gets incredibly repetitive, it can drag out fights by simultaneously locking down an enemy and halving your round-by-round damage output at the same time, and it's almost impossible for the DM to play around without resorting to monsters with outright fear immunity, since strong saving throws and even limited use auto-save abilities on legendary monsters have no effect by the RAW (as a DM I personally would have legendary resistance type abilities work on check-to-resist abilities like menacing or shove as well, but that isn't the RAW of it). And the designers seem to have deliberately scrapped the entire concept of skill-feats in general.

    So yeah, there are reasons not to allow it, and if it wasn't allowed a half elf would still do very well with elven accuracy (again, use prone to create advantage, and the hexblade dip for the expanded crit range from hexblade's curse stacks wonderfully here). A human would still do great with heavy armor master, resilient con, or sentinel. It's a shame there's no good officially published charisma half-feat for fallen aasimar, but you can use the +2 racial there to start with a 14 pre-racial charisma, and use the spare points to shore up your other stats a bit. Any of these conquerors would work absolutely fantastically in a game without Menacing.

    But in a game with Menacing? You take it.
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  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Thanks for the detailed response! Will have to look into menacing more it seems. I had forgotten the fact that you can hex someone first and give them disadvantage on the initial menacing check. Brings your chance of success closer to 90%. Good point about the legendary resistance not applying as well. Of course that frightened ancient dragon just found it's primary breath weapon target. :(

    Been thinking of getting a 2nd level of warlock just to get Mask of Many Faces. RP wise it would be the forging a hexblade pact saved his life when the gods abandoned him on the battlefield. He is always wearing a handsome false image of his former himself but drops illusion in battle to reveal his true horrific visage(think Two Face ugly).

    If going 2 levels of warlock, any suggestions for cantrips, spells and invocations for a build with menacing but no warcaster(at least not till much later)?

    Cantrips:

    Working on the assumption that GFB and BB don't synergize well with someone using Menacing frequently.

    Blade Ward perhaps? Assuming you have an opponent locked down with a longer duration fear effect it could help with tanking.

    Create Bonfire to get more battlefield control? Could potentially throw it on a frightened prone opponent locked in your aura as well. Takes concentration though.

    1st Level spells:

    Hex + Charm Person + Expedious Retreat.

    Warlock spell list is pretty limited. Any spell I'm overlooking which would fit well with a conqueror build?

    Invocations:

    MoMF as mentioned + Agonizing blast or would Grasp of Hadar be better. Being able to peel opponents off your allies or drag them into your aura could be handy but +CHA on multiple blasts is so nice.

    Also wanted to get build thoughts on going a 3rd level of Warlock and picking up Pact of the blade to use with these UA invocations:

    Claw of Acamar

    Prerequisite: The Great Old One patron, Pact of the Blade feature

    You can create a black, lead flail using your Pact of the Blade feature. The flail's head is sculpted to resemble a pair of grasping tentacles. The weapon has the reach property. When you hit a creature with it, you can expend a spell slot to deal an additional 2d8 necrotic damage to the target per spell level, and you can reduce the creature's speed to 0 feet until the end of your next turn.

    GOO instead of Hexblade would make you MAD again but give you a one handed reach weapon pact weapon that can lock down opponents who are immune to fear. Have to burn spell slots to do it though. Stacks with smites so it gives some potentially big burst damage.

    Curse Bringer
    (Unearthed Arcana)

    Prerequisite: The Hexblade patron, Pact of the Blade feature

    You can create a greatsword forged from silver, with black runes etched into its blade, using your Pact of the Blade feature. If you reduce a target cursed by your Hexblade's Curse to 0 hit points with this sword, you can immediately change the target of the curse to a different creature. This change doesn't extend the curse's duration. When you hit a creature with this weapon, you can expend a spell slot to deal an additional 2d8 slashing damage to the target per spell level, and you can reduce the creature's speed to 0 feet until the end of your next turn.

    Similar to the other invocation but back to SAD again and going the GWM route for Conquest. Can double up on smite bursts again, keep fear immune enemies prone plus get some hex curse action economy.

    Comments on either are welcome!

    Quote Originally Posted by Malisteen View Post
    War Caster is not a valid human bonus feat for a first level paladin, because of the prerequisite to actually be a spellcaster, which a paladin isn't at first level. You can do it if you start with hexblade at first level, but then you're stuck in medium armor, which means lower AC long term - not by much, but every little bit counts for a tank - and means a more difficult ability spread if you're going points-buy, since 13 strength 14 dex costs more than 15 strength, no dex. Basically, it's going to be the difference between a starting +3 con mod and a starting +2 con mod.

    You can make it work, but it's a bit awkward, and it will cost you both AC and HP in the long run. Not a ton, but a noticeable amount.

    Alternative bonus feats to consider at first level might include heavy armor master (really fantastic if you're playing the character up from level one), resilient [constitution] (it's something most conquerors would eventually want anyway, though those that take warcaster to get full utility out of a hexblade dip generally skip it), and sentinel.

    Regarding Sentinel - I don't think it's been talked about too much in this thread, but sentinel can seem somewhat redundant for a Conqueror once you get your aura, and the speed-cancelling opportunity attacks aspect kind of is. However, the ability to punish enemies who hit your allies with a reaction attack is VERY good for conquerors, as your allies will often want to be clustered right in with you and the monsters trapped in your aura, either because those allies themselves are melee-based or because they just want to take advantage of your aura of protection. Either way, in that case even immobilized enemies will still be able to attack your friends, albeit with disadvantage, and will generally prefer to do so because of your high AC, so... yeah, being able to punish that behavior is a valuable tool.

    ...

    But none of those other feat options really matter, imo, because you mentioned Menacing in the aasimar build. If your DM allows menacing, and there's frankly good reason not to, but IF they allow menacing, then take menacing. Take it as your bonus feat if vuman, and use the stat boost to start with 16s in strength, con, and cha at level 1. Take it as your first ASI if not human. Take it no matter what your race or build is otherwise. Take it instead of elven accuracy in the half elf build. Elven accuracy is good for a conqueror (and you'd get plenty of advantage to use it with after level seven via knocking frightened enemies prone in your aura), but Menacing is far and away the better charisma boosting half-feat for conquerors of any race if it's available.

    An at-will, no-resource, no-concentration, check-resisted source of frighten is absolute gold, even if it only affects a single target and only lasts a single round. It doesn't beat out Fear as a combat opener against hoards, but it will often be better than the already-great wrathful smite against single targets, as it's harder to resist, doesn't burn your concentration, doesn't take a spell slot, and doesn't take a bonus action. Not taking a bonus action lets you use it in the same turn as you cast spiritual weapon, or as a hexblade dip you can use it in the same turn as casting Hex (potentially imposing disadvantage on that first check to resist being menaced even before they're frightened) or using hexblade's curse.

    Again, there are reasons not to allow it. It can be awkward to role play, it gets incredibly repetitive, it can drag out fights by simultaneously locking down an enemy and halving your round-by-round damage output at the same time, and it's almost impossible for the DM to play around without resorting to monsters with outright fear immunity, since strong saving throws and even limited use auto-save abilities on legendary monsters have no effect by the RAW (as a DM I personally would have legendary resistance type abilities work on check-to-resist abilities like menacing or shove as well, but that isn't the RAW of it). And the designers seem to have deliberately scrapped the entire concept of skill-feats in general.

    So yeah, there are reasons not to allow it, and if it wasn't allowed a half elf would still do very well with elven accuracy (again, use prone to create advantage, and the hexblade dip for the expanded crit range from hexblade's curse stacks wonderfully here). A human would still do great with heavy armor master, resilient con, or sentinel. It's a shame there's no good officially published charisma half-feat for fallen aasimar, but you can use the +2 racial there to start with a 14 pre-racial charisma, and use the spare points to shore up your other stats a bit. Any of these conquerors would work absolutely fantastically in a game without Menacing.

    But in a game with Menacing? You take it.
    Last edited by Wildarm; 2018-06-28 at 01:11 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #195
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    I'll post a longer eply tomorrow, but I'd take booming blade as a cantrip. Not too useful at first, no, but becomes more relevant as an opportunity attack after you eventually puck up warcaster.
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  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    OK, Have a build in mind for Conquest8/Warlock5(GOO + Pact of Blade) - Continue on in Conquest

    Would likely go Conquest1/Warlock5 before starting the remaining Conquest Progression. Booming Blade/Thirsting Blade on a reach weapon should keep my DPS pretty reasonable till extra attack comes online from Conquest levels.

    V Human 16/8/14/10/8/16 Starting Stats

    Feats: Sentinel(Lv1) + Warcaster + ASI x2

    Cantrips: Booming Blade, Eldritch Blast, Minor Illusion
    Spells: Hex, Mirror Image, Hypnotic Pattern, Fear, Counterspell, Fly
    Invocations: Agonizing Blast, Grasp of Hadar, Claw of Acamar

    My question is the build trying to do too much at once compared to a standard Conquest13/Hexblade1. My melee to hit and damage is reduced by 2(MAD) and auras and spell DC lags by 1 for 2 levels. What you get is a fairly unique reach weapon early on which is ideal for smiting and control, you can pretty much open with Fear or Hypnotic Pattern every battle with warlock slots plus more spell options for control/tanking/utility.

    Basically the lockdown aura of the conquest pally comes online much later but I think this build makes you a much better controlling tank from the start. Is the conquest lockdown that effective every battle to warrant bee lining for Conquest7 ASAP? The zone of control you have with reach + booming blade, the claw movement stopage, grasp of hadar and sentinel and 21+ AC + Shield Spell seems quite good. Maybe sacrifice ASI progression to rush to Conquest7/Warlock3? Hurts to be 1 level short on both classes for so long.
    Last edited by Wildarm; 2018-07-04 at 04:12 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #197
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Making a Conquest Paladin for an upcoming campaign because of this excellent guide.

    Gonna beeline to level 8 because the level 7 aura is just too good, then ASI. After that I might dip Hexblade to boost my damage, and if I do, I will take that to 12 for Lifedrinker because that's really handy vs high-level enemies. Basically an Elric variation here.

    Zariel tiefling for +2 Cha, +1 Str. Half-Elf is "better," but I like the tiefling for for RP reasons (has something to prove in a big way.) Maxing Charisma ASAP, as I am planning on using fear as much as possible, as I am less concerned with damage at lower/mid levels than I am with tanking, namely via potent auras/fear. Hoping to get max Cha early so I can take Menacing sooner than later. After 8, I can up my damage via Hexblade if I feel it's lacking, since that's about when enemies seem to start getting (way) harder to kill.

    Sword and Shield for better AC and good magic item choices.

    I want to grab Inspiring Leader as well. This is SUCH a Conquest Paladin feat, and lets me pre-tank a bit. By the time I get it, I will likely be at 10+, so that's 15+ temp hp to all allies per short rest.

    I always play nice characters. I am psyched to play an a-hole who believes they are the only correct answer to every injustice, and who has no mercy. In order to feel a bit less dirty, I am going to be extra helpful and charitable to the poor/helpless/selfless.
    Last edited by Speely; 2018-07-04 at 01:02 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #198
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    My friend and I have decided to be a tanking duo in Adventure League. He is playing the Ancestral Guardians Barbarian and I (ever the gish lover) have chosen to play the Oath of Conquest Paladin. There are a couple of things I'm debating however.

    I have two builds in mind; Half Elf Paladin (Oath of Conquest) X or V. Human Paladin (Oath of Conquest) X-2/Warlock (Hexblade) 2. V. Human takes Resilient: Con and their invocations would be Agonising Blast and Devil's Sight, I would take the Warlock levels at character levels 3 and 4. Obviously no Booming Blade from Warlock in a PHB +1 format where I'm already using Xanathar's. The question is, which am I better off with in Adventure League? I'm kinda leaning towards the Half Elf build at the moment but I'm not 100% sure yet.

  19. - Top - End - #199
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    So I've put a lot of thought into this.

    I see 5 priorities I want to get out of this

    1 boost up charima for DC
    2 increase concentration saves
    3 knock enemies prone
    4 find as many ways to apply frighten
    5 damage

    Obviously priority number 1 is the most important

    But what is next? 2 3 or 4?
    I need 2 asi to get char to 20
    And prone trap is one of the best ways to play this build. To me, this builds all about control in prone trap is the most unique thing about this build and I would like to capitalize on it.

    Anyways focusing on control. which of these three feet seems like it would be better. Shild master, prodigy athletics, or resiliency con.

    First shield master. it uses a bonus action so you can't use the prone on the same turn as wrathful smite. You also can't use it on the same turn as fear because fear is a spell cast action. But it's so sexy.

    Second prodigy, seems strong to me but I'm really only doing it for the expertise so I can use one of my attack actions to shove if my wrathful Smite is successful, feels like I'm wasting the most of the feat. Also is it overkill? If they are frightened they have disadvantage on the check.

    Last is resiliency con. With a plus 5 aura by 8 I can get con to 16 with or without the feat. Spend the asi elsewhere in the build. (Like maybe make something a 10 instead of an 8) this would have centrally make it so that only a two or one fails a con save. Is it important enough to make of that Zero by taking resiliency con? Or am I wasting this because anything beyond +2 procifiency is not as beneficial.


    Attacking is secondary as others will do more damage. I want to knock as many prone as possible to help increase there damage as a form of tanking.

    The way I would play it is i would either draw a longsword or whip depending whether your fear is successful or not.

    Lastly as a side note looking at the level 2 spells one of them is command. My thought for the spell would be to use the command "panick" or "cower". Thoughts on this? Could you prepare or would just wrathful Smite be better in all cases
    Last edited by Rp4man; 2018-07-15 at 10:44 AM.

  20. - Top - End - #200
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Legimus, thank you for your guide, it definitely helped me a lot to understand conquest paladin much better!
    I have a question: Is making a tortle-conquest paladin with a one-level-dip into Hexblade viable?
    In my opinion, this would make the character only rely on maxed-out CHA (as a Hexblade you will use that instead of STR, if I get that correctly) and taking other ASI into CON or get feats.

  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    This is a great guide! Very good and in depth analysis. Well done!

    Let me make a few points:

    1) I think a S&B setup is more optimal than a heavy polearm setup for its reach.
    One of the limitations of the aura of conquest is its small radius of 10 feet (that is of course until you reach level 18 when the radius augments to 30 feet, but lets assume a conquest paladin of a lower level than 18 for now). Now, at the start of most combat, the position you will aim to assume, will be determined by the need to include as many enemies as you can, that you will hit with either fear or conquering presence, who are also inside this 10 feet radius (and by the need to avoid hitting friendlies in the case of fear, so this can narrow down even more the squres you will want to move into). That means, that in all likelihood, you can expect to find yourself taking the position adjacent to at least one of the enemies most of the time (because it is more important to try and immobilize more enemies than avoiding being targeted by an enemy that will most likely attack with disadvantage. Moreover, being attacked with disadvantage, works better for you the higher your AC is (on the average case scenario, or rather, except for marginal cases when the chances of being hit in the first time, ie as if the enemy didn't suffer disadvantage, were either too high or too low, which with bounded accuracy it happens extremely rarely). Additionally, you cannot reasonably expect to frighten and immobilize all the enemies, so you can always expect to be on the receiving end of some attacks, which wont suffer disadvantage (especially if the enemies are intelligent and realize that by breaking your concentration they can free up their immobilized allies). But this is mostly good as you want to tank. Though losing concentration on fear would be a huge blow. AC plays a part in keeping concentration up, ie the higher it is the more attacks it blocks the less concentration checks you have to roll to avoid losing concentration. Packing a polearm is useful, and at sometimes, it might be useful to use its reach, even if that means having to spend one round to don off the shield (but most likely, these will be just battles already decided due to successfully locking down the enemies). But in the vast majority of combats, I see the extra AC gained by packing a shield to be a lot more useful than having reach. When you hit level 18 of course, and the radius of the aura of conquest expands to 30 feet, then the reach of a heavy polearm becomes just as good, if not straight better for the reasons you mentioned.


    2) Boosting your concentration is as, if not more important than boosting charisma.
    At level 9 when you will gain access to the fear spell, and assuming a 20 in charisma and a 14 in constitution, you concentration checks will be at a +7. Now, assuming always a DC 10, which of course wont always be the case, you initial chances of keeping concentration after every hit would be: 85% after the 1st hit, 72.25% after the 2nd hit, 61.41% after the 3rd hit, and it will keep dropping. With that focus in frightening enemies, and with the fear spell being one of the best ways to handle this strategy, keeping concentration on it is extremely vital. Of course, with a very good AC, say 21, and with many of the incoming attacks suffering disadvantage, you wont be hit all that often. But you will still get hit enough to put your chances of keeping concentration at risk. In order to avoid that, I think resilient con becomes mandatory, and more specifically it has to be taken at the latest before you hit 9th level and you get fear. This will bring your concentration checks to autosave territory, at least as far as the majority of them are concerned. The fact that it boosts the constitution save, which is the most targeted in the game and with the effects that target it being among the deadliest in the game, along with the +1 bonus to constitution, makes it... I dunno, even more mandatory I guess. Though even if it was only for the concentration boost, I would still consider it mandatory (same goes for warcaster if you plan on multiclassing to a caster and aiming at a S&B build at the same time, so in this case warcaster would replace resilient con).

    3) Multiclassing sorcerer
    This is not the primary focus of the guide, but since you have a small section about it under multiclassing, I felt the need to provide some feedback. Twinned has little to no value. Twinning BB is only really good for skirmishers, and even for them, only under certain circumstances and not always. But besides that, you don't have even enough sp to hope to rely to sth like this, and generally it is not worth it. Instead include careful spell, as it has amazing synergy with the fear spell which you will want to often to use. Making you not care if you catch allies with your fear spell (due to careful), will allow targeting extra enemies (especially when initiative wont treat you well). Besides, web works well with careful, and web is an amazing spell for anyone who can inflict fright reliably. Cause they will have to roll the check to escape the web with disadvantage. And you can even cast it in the same round when you use your conquering presence (via quickening it). Moreover web can act kind as a substitute (to a lesser extend, as there is no oath aura that synergizes with it) for when you fight enemies with immunity to fear. One more thing that can play well with your fear powers and your aura of conquest, is the cantrip lightning lure. Quicken fear and cast it to draw a frigtenend enemy inside your aura of conquest. Or use it to draw someone into your web. Last but not least, another big benefit of this multiclass, is that it expedites your spell slot progression, and this plays very well with your armor of agathys spell (though this last thing holds true for bards and for the other non cha-based full casters).


    This is probably asking a lot, but could you make a list of all/most fear immune enemies? This
    old thread shows that there is roughly a 10% of the monsters in MM that are immune to being frightened, but I was wondering if we could have a list of them. So if they can be reasonably grouped, we could then try to set up reliable back up tactics (and thus aiming at character building accordingly) for when fighting anything from that list. No pressure...!

    Well done on making this guide once again.

    Edit: Btw, I just realized how important aura of courage is for this oath in particular. And you only get it one level after you get fear. Basically, aura of courage pretty much singlehandedly solves the ''friendly fire'' problem of fear. It's like a cost-free careful spell on steroids! This alone makes the sorcerer dip a lot less appealing than what I first thought. Also, lowers the need for a good initiative somewhat, in the hope to cast a fear before my silly allies get in the way. And being only one level away from getting fear, I cannot think of an optimized conquest paladin mc build that focuses on lockdown without at least 10 paladin levels. Heh, I am slowly making progress...

    Edit2:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malisteen View Post
    But before that, a word on Concentration. As I've gained more experience playing Conquerors, this issue keeps coming up. Especially after you pick up Fear at level nine. Almost all frighten effects are concentration based, including the two very best sources of frighten for conquest paladins: the spells Wrathful Smite and Fear. These are the best because of the mechanics for shaking them. If a target fails the initial save, Wrathful Smite only lets the target break free with Wisdom checks, which will be made at disadvantage due to the frighten condition itself, making it very difficult to escape - unless you fail your concentration. Fear is even more extreme. Targets that fail the initial save can only attempt another if they break line of sight to you, which will typically be impossible for them to do while you have them trapped in your aura of conquest, so targets that fail the initial save cannot escape at all - again unless you fail your concentration.

    The risk of failed concentration checks is your primary tool for motivating enemies trapped in your aura to attack you instead of your allies, but while you want to dangle that hope in front of your enemies, you do not ever actually want to fail these saves. Nothing is worse than losing control of three or more enemies that you just locked down because you flubbed a concentration save.

    Con 14 to 16 and Cha 20 with aura of protection gives you a decent con save by default, but this is not good enough given the overwhelming importance of maintaining your frighten effects on enemies. IMO shoring up your concentration saves is almost as critical as raising your spell DCs, to the point that "typical", single-classed Oath of Conquest paladins should consider Resilient: Constitution to be a near mandatory feat at level 12. Level 16 at the latest if you haven't picked up a magic weapon with a to-hit bonus by level 12 and find your melee attacks missing a bit too often to tolerate.

    IMO, resilient Con is the ONLY feat that I would rate gold for this build. Even Sentinel, amazing as it is, should probably take a back seat.

    I put in red the part I disagree. I think that the latest by 8th level you must have resilient con (or warcaster if planning to multiclass to a caster and also planning to play S&B, though getting warcaster becomes a bit tricky and I have not worked it in depth in my mind. Other than that.... exactly, completely agree, 100%!
    Last edited by Corran; 2018-07-20 at 10:00 PM.
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  22. - Top - End - #202
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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    I've currently have a 14 Hexblade/ 6 vengeance pally and I am thinking of asking my DM for a change of levels and oath. I want to take Conquest and see if he'll let me also trade warlock levels for more Paladin. Not sure how many more levels in conquest I should go for.

  23. - Top - End - #203
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    I'm having a bit of a hard time deciding my build for my Conquest Pally for my Curse of Strahd game. (Level 10 cap, I believe)

    We have the PHB and Xanathars available as our books. I want to play Variant Human and my hangup is stats vs feats with this subclass:

    Stats are: 14, 10, 14, 8, 10, 15 and the Racial points going into Cha and Str, I guess. Cant get a 16 in two stats without a half feat. (I have only ever played SAD classes, wow this is annoying)

    The Feat choices I've narrowed down are Sentinel, Shield Master, Magic Initiate and Resilient: CON

    If I need to max Cha, I can only take one feat for the start. If not, I can afford more choices

    Sentinel adds a ton of tank, reaction attacks against allies within 5ft and pinning enemies down and can really create a chokepoint.

    Shield Master has the synergy with the Conquest Aura and knocking my enemies prone and keeping them prone while I hack them to bits. The Dex part seems nice but thats for targeting only me and I think that just invokes traps. The pseudo evasion is really nice.

    Magic Initiate for me would be Warlock, grabbing Eldritch blast for covering distance combat and I guess Minor Illusion for whatever. The spell would be between Hex and Cause Fear for bonus fear abilities. (but now that I think about it, I might not be able to upcast that....)


    Resilient would add +1 Con and keep whatever concentration effects going, most of which seem rather important.

  24. - Top - End - #204
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    I too have issues on choosing a stat vs feat progression; and as an Aasimar (can't decide on Fallen or Scourge), I have even fewer feats (read: none) outside of forgoing stats at level 4 etc.

    Some feats seem absolutely vital for the class (sentinel, shieldmaster or greatweapon master, the con buff etc)

    So... what's the recommended progression on choosing feats vs stats?


    Edit: since I'm running with friends rather than AL, I could roll for stats, got some decent rolls at 16, 16, 15, 14, 14 and 8, with the +2 charisma and +1 strength, that gives me this character

    https://ddb.ac/characters/4142215/ey3xnH

    (Although honestly, the points would be the same for Scourge, since I'd swap the 16 con for the 15 str) but I'm liking the dual fear-bomb per rest rather than the rather piddly aoe burn. Probably going to run sword and board with shieldmaster.

    Likely progression would then be:

    3: Oath
    4 +2 Char (20 Now)
    7 AoC
    8 Shield Master. Sentinel or res-con (SM if I am not challenged too hard, Sentinel if enemies start being immune to fear, res-con if I am getting too disrupted in concentration)

    After that, it'd simply be a matter of adapting to the campaign I'm guessing, either filling in the missing stats or going for the missing feats.
    Last edited by Neknoh; 2018-07-23 at 07:31 PM.
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  25. - Top - End - #205
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Re starting feat, id reccomend heavy armor master. CoS is a 1-10 game, and in that level range HAM is amazing. Plus it's a str half feat to get you to 16 str, 16 cha at level one. Resiliend con or sentinel are both absolutely viable alternatives.
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  26. - Top - End - #206
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Malisteen View Post
    Re starting feat, id reccomend heavy armor master. CoS is a 1-10 game, and in that level range HAM is amazing. Plus it's a str half feat to get you to 16 str, 16 cha at level one. Resiliend con or sentinel are both absolutely viable alternatives.
    Yeah, after reading all of the thread, I'm down to HAM, Res:Con and Shield Master, Leaning more and more towards the first two. Sentinel is great but I dont think it will be 100% necessary at my levels. Shield master is only in the running for knocking people prone on a bonus action.

    I think I might dump Dex and Int as the Dex issues are solved at 6 and allows me to get 16 in Str and Cha if I take HAM. 14 Con looks okay enough for a High AC tank. ASI for +2 Cha at 4 and then Res: Con at 8.

  27. - Top - End - #207
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    With my current character I have a 22 charisma and a Storm Giant belt, and a Ioun Stone of Mastery which gives me a +7 proficiency bonus now. With my DM's permission I'd like to switch Oaths to Conquest and swap some of my Hexblade levels into paladin.

    If I went 12 paladin and 8 Hexblade I would gain a feat. Menacing looks pretty awesome, giving me a bonus of +20 to intimidation. I already have an Athletics check of +16 so Prodigy and Brawny are less appealing. I think that I would have a solid chance on grappling or shoving without having those 2 skill feats added on.

    With Menacing I could use a bonus action to cast Shadow Blade and use an attack to Intimidate, then use an attack to shove prone. Next turn I would Intimidate again and make a melee attack, and is the same sequence on the following turns.

  28. - Top - End - #208
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    So I'm thinking sentinel really turns on at lvl 11 for improved divine.

    Anyway In an AL game. From reading all the tips definitely getting the feeling I need to take res con by 8. + 2 Charisma is an auto at 4. Is 18 charisma okay to live on or does it need to be maxed as the number one priority before you can pick up feats?



    Plus 2 Cha
    Res con
    Plus 2 Cha or sentinel here?
    Last edited by Rp4man; 2018-08-05 at 09:34 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #209
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by nurshin1 View Post
    Legimus, thank you for your guide, it definitely helped me a lot to understand conquest paladin much better!
    I have a question: Is making a tortle-conquest paladin with a one-level-dip into Hexblade viable?
    In my opinion, this would make the character only rely on maxed-out CHA (as a Hexblade you will use that instead of STR, if I get that correctly) and taking other ASI into CON or get feats.
    Hey, nurshin. I think that a tortle Conqueror is definitely viable. But with the armor limitations and the lack of base CHA, it won't be optimized. The one-level dip into Hexblade is pretty much a universally good idea in my opinion. It just opens so many doors in terms of damage and utility. That being said, I'm a pretty big proponent of having fun. A tortle Conqueror isn't going to be the most powerful paladin imaginable, but neither is it going to be bad and boring. Just make sure to prioritize CHA when leveling up and you'll have a grand time.

  30. - Top - End - #210
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Rp4man View Post
    So I'm thinking sentinel really turns on at lvl 11 for improved divine.

    Anyway In an AL game. From reading all the tips definitely getting the feeling I need to take res con by 8. + 2 Charisma is an auto at 4. Is 18 charisma okay to live on or does it need to be maxed as the number one priority before you can pick up feats?



    Plus 2 Cha
    Res con
    Plus 2 Cha or sentinel here?
    +2 CHA takes absolute priority, I think. Charisma is your main stat when playing a Conqueror. Your most powerful tool is fear, and the single stat that decides whether you can frighten someone is CHA. In addition, investing in CHA makes Aura of Protection incredible for the rest of your party. I think you can take feats before adding anything to STR or CON, but when playing a Conqueror you should always max out CHA as soon as possible. I'm with you that Resilience: CON is a very important feat, but CHA does more work for Conquerors than any other paladin oath. Max out CHA first.

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