MY PLAYERS WON'T STOP SAY (MATT MERCER DOES THIS) rant with a question?

[Throne12]

So I allow one of my players play Matt Mercer 's gunslinger. The gunslinger fired all his shot and had to reload. I told him it would take a action to reload. He said that how it works you can spend one of your attacks (not attack action but a attack.) Then another play jumps in and said the same thing. This last for a couple of mins before I Saud what ever and let finished this fight. We had 30 mins left for the night and I was passed so I just hand waved the hole fight. Because the hole gunslinger thing and my ******* powergamer rules Lawyer player was passed because last game he got druncked and abducted and is stuff was licked up in a room with arcane lock on it.

He calls me out on any rule he thinks is wrong mixing rule with Matt Mercer 's house rules. He's the biggest power games you have ever seen. And gets all pissy if I do anything to this Mary Sue ******* Characters. He say oh your a new DM.

I used to be a Critical role fan but my group has made me haste it.

So the question was how does the reloads work for Percy?

[Lodestar]

I don't have a PDF around at tne moment (on mobile), but I recall it being an action to reload firearms, but at a certain level you get to instead use a bonus action to reload.

[jitzul]

it says on the gunslinger pdf under the reload proporty it takes 1 attack or action to reload.

[Varlon]

You sure sound like a new DM. Maybe you should make sure you understand the characters your players are playing, or at least have the text available so that you can resolve rules issues by looking it up? Rather than attempting to nerf their character on the spot because of your lack of understanding, getting mad, rushing to end the session, and then coming and complaining to the internet about it.

[Jerrykhor]

I think you have issues.

[Finney]

So the question was how does the reloads work for Percy?

The more important question is: how do you think it should work?

Be firm (and fair) with your players, which is a polite way of saying don't let them bully or shout you down. When you need to interpret or revise a rule, ask for their input and invite a discussion - then make a ruling. Reasonable people can generally reach an agreement that is fair to everyone involved.

Keep in mind that the Gunslinger shares a lot of similarities with the material published in the Unearthed Arcana - it is not official and may or may not need to be tweaked based on how it impacts your game. This is often the case with homebrew material.

[Throne12]

I think you have issues.

Thank you and god bless your soul.

[mephnick]

"I'm not Matt Mercer and you aren't being paid to perform for subscribers. Please respect my rulings."

The End

[suplee215]

While I do think the player might be a bit of a problem for the reloading issue they are right. The PDF states that reloading costs an action OR an attack. This isn't a case of Percy being allowed to do it because of Matt's more story focus dm style but actually in the text. That said if you think they are power gaming remember that ultimately you are in charge and make the rules. I suggest talking out of game to them about the issues on all sides and also about why you are making the rulings you are making.

[Spore]

I realize he is the DM. But there is nothing "rules-lawyer" about wanting the DM to play by the written rules. D&D 5 has enough leeway for the DM to create tension or make encounters more challenging. You usually should start with everything you can control as the DM and let the players play by the rules.

To make a fight more challenging you can have more enemies show up, you can have the villain equip them better or lay an ambush when it makes sense from what the minions know ingame. And then you reward them for overcoming your increased odds. You however do not try to interfere with the rules-side of player characters. Other than making sure they play by the rules and shut down crushing interpretations of the rules - things like wish-loops or for me, scry and die scenarios.

[Throne12]

You sure sound like a new DM. Maybe you should make sure you understand the characters your players are playing, or at least have the text available so that you can resolve rules issues by looking it up? Rather than attempting to nerf their character on the spot because of your lack of understanding, getting mad, rushing to end the session, and then coming and complaining to the internet about it.

I wasn't trying to nerf players. I just didnt know the ruling on the firearm at the time. But still let him used a attack to reload like he wanted to. My Critical Role fan players which are half of my group wants to
1. Cast spells that are 2nd level or first level as a action and bonus action just like Matt Mercer let's his group does.
2. They want to drink potions as a bonus action. When in the book it say it a action to use a potion.
3. A player is playing a insane lizardman that's a hexblade barbarian and his warlock Patron is Chaulu switching his hexblade Extended spell list with the great old one. Then when I asked why not just play a goo lock he said because they suck as a bladelock and wanted to use his Charisma as his attacking stat. He trys to cast spells while raging. He nevers wants to start at level 1 and will not leave me alone untell I say ok we start at level 3.


Yes I did rushed the end because everyone had already clocked out of the game by then. And a few players had to leave s pin anyways. So Excuse me for not shoving something they didn't enjoy down their throat. And yes I did come to the internet to complain isn't that what the internet is for?

I'm not Matt Mercer and I'm always compared to him. I wanted to DM because I wanted to have fun craft a story with a group. But I'm going home ticked off after every session. I ask at the end of every session " Questions comments, concerns, thoughts. Was there anything you really liked or didn't like." They always answer with it was good. Yes I'm bitching on the internet because I'm Afraid if I don't it it off my chest now I'll Explode on my players and that's the last think I want to do.

So thank you for your comment and god bless your soul.

[Jerrykhor]

I wasn't trying to nerf players. I just didnt know the ruling on the firearm at the time. But still let him used a attack to reload like he wanted to. My Critical Role fan players which are half of my group wants to
1. Cast spells that are 2nd level or first level as a action and bonus action just like Matt Mercer let's his group does.
2. They want to drink potions as a bonus action. When in the book it say it a action to use a potion.
3. A player is playing a insane lizardman that's a hexblade barbarian and his warlock Patron is Chaulu switching his hexblade Extended spell list with the great old one. Then when I asked why not just play a goo lock he said because they suck as a bladelock and wanted to use his Charisma as his attacking stat. He trys to cast spells while raging. He nevers wants to start at level 1 and will not leave me alone untell I say ok we start at level 3.


Yes I did rushed the end because everyone had already clocked out of the game by then. And a few players had to leave s pin anyways. So Excuse me for not shoving something they didn't enjoy down their throat. And yes I did come to the internet to complain isn't that what the internet is for?

I'm not Matt Mercer and I'm always compared to him. I wanted to DM because I wanted to have fun craft a story with a group. But I'm going home ticked off after every session. I ask at the end of every session " Questions comments, concerns, thoughts. Was there anything you really liked or didn't like." They always answer with it was good. Yes I'm bitching on the internet because I'm Afraid if I don't it it off my chest now I'll Explode on my players and that's the last think I want to do.

So thank you for your comment and god bless your soul.

Then just make it clear to them that your game, your rules. Not Matt Mercer's or anyone else's.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but if you want to know who is right in an argument, the first thing to do is fact check, not go online and rant.

[krugaan]

Then just make it clear to them that your game, your rules. Not Matt Mercer's or anyone else's.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but if you want to know who is right in an argument, the first thing to do is fact check, not go online and rant.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Then we wouldn't have this entertaining story or easy validation.

Always consult the internet first.

Unless your story sucks. Then, you know ... google.

[Alerad]

1. Ask the player how the feature works. It's his character, so it's not really your job to know how all features on all classes work. That applies to any player, not just the Gunslinger. I often do it for spells, I'm not going to memorize all 100 pages on the PHB spell section, and the Elemental Evil, and Xanathar's.

2. Does it feel OP?

2-Yes. Tell the player that feature A. feels too OP and you will have to nerf it. Yes, that includes printed rules and yes, DM-s do it all the time. If a certain rules doesn't work for your table, you can change it. Discuss changes with affected players and explain why they are necessary.

2-No. Then don't change anything.

[LeonBH]

I wanted to DM because I wanted to have fun craft a story with a group. But I'm going home ticked off after every session.

This is a HUGE problem. Something is VERY wrong.

No game is better than a bad game. You are not getting anything from D&D other than your own enjoyment. You are not getting paid to run it, you are not earning favors for it. You do it for you.

When it stops becoming fun, then you have to stop running the game.

If you spent those 3-4 hours instead lazing around watching Netflix, went on a date, read a book, or ate at a restaurant, you would have had a significantly better time.

Running a game you are not enjoying is your friends earning your bad will. If you did not run a game for them, they would not be earning your bad will.

You have to stop running the game.

[Captain Panda]

He was correct in his objection, that is what the rule says. It's hardly overpowered.

I can empathize with the feeling that it's annoying when a player joins a game expecting you to DM like Matt Mercer on Critical Role (only Matt Mercer can do that, and only with highly skilled voice actors to work with), but... you're using homebrew -he- wrote. It makes some sense for players to extrapolate from that that other things might be the same as well. Just tell them that you will be going by the book's rules with the exception of the class features outlined in the gunslinger subclass.

I'm guessing based on your post that you're young, not just new, so I'd also say calm down and just keep practicing. It'll get easier with time. The solution to a problem is rarely yelling about it to strangers, though.

[Geodude6]

"But Matt Mercer does X!"

"Well, I'm not Matt Mercer."

[Talamare]

If you're going to object to how a HOME BREW works...

Then you need to provide the home brew information, and even then its up to the DM to allow it or play it how he wants... Regardless of what the HOME BREW file says

[ATHATH]

It sounds like both you and your group have... "flaws".

Maybe you could get some of your group members on here so that we can hear their side(s) of the story?

... You might want to change the thread title first, though.

[Temperjoke]

Your best answer is "Go have Matt Mercer DM your campaign if you want to play by his rules."

One thing that your players don't seem to understand is that the game that they're playing in Critical Role is based on the Tal'Dorei Campaign, which includes feats that are not part of the core 5e. This is what allows them to do the two spells cast in a turn.

Spelldriver
Prerequisite: Character level 8th or higher
Through intense focus, training, and dedication, you’ve
harnessed the techniques of rapid spellcasting. You are
no longer limited to only one non-cantrip spell per turn.
However, should you cast two or more spells in a single
turn, only one of them can be of 3rd level or higher.

They omit details like that during the game because they've been playing together in this campaign a long time, it's second nature to them now, so it's easy to think that it's just a special ruling when there's actually a mechanic for it.

Aside from these issues, it sounds as if there are other things at play in your game. You are not familiar with the classes your players have chosen to play, which makes you unprepared for this sort of problem during the game. You've got players who only half understand what's going on in the mechanics of the game, because it seems they're basing their knowledge on a different game setting than you are. You've also got players who want to lawyer and argue, and you seem to want them to immediate kowtow to what you want, even if they're actually right.

Frankly, I think you guys need to have some time out of game to discuss just what you all want out of this, how this constant comparison to a different DM is making you feel, and establish some ground rules.

[McNinja]

First, I know you were probably angry when you wrote the thread title and OP, but dear god. You need to run that stuff through spellcheck first dude. Even google has a built in dictionary.

Second, if you aren't having fun, stop DMing.

Third, if the player says that the ability works a specific way, ask to see the book with the gunslinger rules, and make a judgement based off that. You're the DM.

[Coffee_Dragon]

The twist: Throne12 is in fact Matt Mercer.

[Occasional Sage]

The twist: Throne12 is in fact Matt Mercer.

I want so badly for this to be true.

[Hyde]

I want so badly for this to be true.

I would also accept Griffin McElroy.

[Metahuman1]

I'll be honest dude. Your blowing off steam sounds a LOT like a couple of early DM's I had who had no problem,



Making 20th level NPC's come around and beat up on my characters and then make them beg forgiveness afterword's, and made me role play out the entire elaborate process (My crime? In an OA game, a bunch of people using Roof Tops, All black garments with face coverings, dart and net weapons, shuriken, tricked out climbing gear and kusari-gama's, to attempt to assassinate a royal and her 1 lone body guard that we were trying to come to the rescue of, and my character called them Ninja's, which was an offense to the ultra highly important 20th level combatant noble member of the court in charge of the assassination attempt. Never mind that he's trying to off the heir to the throne, that wasn't a relevant detail. )

Sundered a samurai (The social title.) characters swords in a deliberately low wealth campaign. Knowing full well all my ability's were built around using the damn things,

Had an NPC lone me swords from the wrong clan just so every freaking body I encountered could accost me with impunity now on the grounds I was "Obviously a thief cause your carrying around swords from the wrong clan.",

Allow the girl he desperately wanted to get in the pants of to murder my character with no negative consequences on the grounds that he's only there to provide back drop, but insist when one of my characters quite reasonably goes to off her after being attacked by her that it's ok for him to intervene as a DM to keep the PC's from in party fighting,




No problems with this sort of stuff,


But,

Were adamantly against Tome of Battle for being Uberbroken Book of Anime Fighting that no one should ever use ever cause it's the worst thing in 3.5.

Banned the Mage Slayer feats.

Made it a point if you built a mounted character to always kill the mount before you came up on your first turn no matter what so you couldn't use it.

Banned Monks.




The fact that this immediately comes to mind is something that honestly bodes poorly for your position on this one.

[Corsair14]

No clue who Matt Mercer is but you are the DM, your word is the rules over and above anything written in the books. The game rules are suggested rules for a complete game and it is your role as DM to arbitrate and pick and choose which you want to follow. DM's rule is law no matter what the rules say.

[The Cats]

No clue who Matt Mercer is but you are the DM, your word is the rules over and above anything written in the books. The game rules are suggested rules for a complete game and it is your role as DM to arbitrate and pick and choose which you want to follow. DM's rule is law no matter what the rules say.

See the post directly above yours for why that's not necessarily the healthiest attitude a DM can have.

The DM can choose which rules to follow, but the DM is not the only person playing the game. If the players disagree, declaring "My game my rules take a hike if you don't like it" can result in one guy sitting at a table by himself. As it should.

[KorvinStarmast]

"I'm not Matt Mercer and you aren't being paid to perform for subscribers. Please respect my rulings." The End

Yeah. (Also, take a look at the source material and figure out how it works in your campaign).

When it stops becoming fun, then you have to stop running the game.

Bad gaming is not better than no gaming. Fair point made here.

"But Matt Mercer does X!"
"Well, I'm not Matt Mercer."

Yeah, each table is sovereign.

Third, if the player says that the ability works a specific way, ask to see the book with the gunslinger rules, and make a judgement based off that. You're the DM.

Also this.

[SirGraystone]

I'm not a new DM, i have been playing on and off for 30 years now. And the things power gamer/rules lawyers will do still annoy me. Mostly because they slow down the game.

You are the DM, so it's your game, you do have to be fair but you are the judge of what rules your game follow. You get to pick what homebrew stuff is added to the game (and yes Matt Mercer gunslinger class is homebrew not an official Wizards product)

Now about the reloading gun, i'm pretty sure it's only a small part in the OP frustration. The last drop of an recurring problem that caused him to vent in the forum.

What I usually try to do with rules lawyer is tell them, that I'm ruling it my way now and we can talk about it after the game, so we can keep the story going.

But my biggest red flag is "He say oh your a new DM.", like that mean your opinion is less important then his. DMing can be fun but it's also a lot of works, if you come out angry after most sessions and you have no fun anymore, it may be a sign that one of you have to go, and I don't think its you.

[Throne12]

Thank you all for y'all comments. Last night I was Angry and I just had to get it off my chest and I didn't want to do that to my players. The firearm reload was just a trigger that started one of my players arguing with me again.

My problem is with one of my players. He will argue on any rule he doesn't like. Right now he's playing a lizardman that was once a elf. He's a hexblade barbarian (which I didn't know he took levels in barbarian) his parton is Chaulu switching some of the hexblade spell with goo lock spells.
Some of the Arguments we had were about the party kept going and didn't take a long rest for 3 days after day 2 I called for a con check if they failed they get 1 level of Exhaustion. He didn't like this and said I can stay up 2 days straight and be Perfectly fine. Another time I had a player cast moon beam then tryed to cast healing word. I said you can't cast 2 spells first level or higher on the same turn. He jumped in and said why not let her it want Matt does. I said it the rule in the book. He then said back it not like she's casting another damaging spell. I Rebuttal with I'm using the rules in the book. Then another time I told them that they can't sleep in heavy or med armor. He had to jump in about sleeping in armor and something about larp. Then he go off about what happens if they get attacked at night. They'll have crap AC and that not fair. Then last night he just started running throught the dungeon leaving the party behind. A group of guards come down the stairs which he is about 40 ft from leaving the party split up the rogue fighting a film by himself the gunslinger fighting 5 tiny servants refluffed to tiny Construct spiders. Then the npc arcane archer and the sorcerer stuck in a room then the monk licked in a different room. So the guard come down and he say to me why rant they running from me the scary lizardman that when they were kidnapping him his weapon kill one of them. I told him it there trained guards and your in there place and they have numbers why would they run. Then 2 rounds later all but one were dead and the one that left turns and runs back up Stairs. He say what why do they always get away. This got to me and I said what always get away anytime some one ttys to run you guy hunt them down and kill them no one has ever gotten away. He get upset when a monster try or get him in a grapple or anything that effects his character other then damage. He complains if he out of character thinks a Nov is lying to me. But never ask for a insight check. He complains if I throw anything ar then that has any Resistance or immunity. I one had a pack or werewolf follow them. This pack was 6 with one alpha. The alpha was the only one that had Resistance the other ones didn't. He was mad that I throw werewolf at them at level 4 but they easily killed them.