Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 132
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    So my DM in AL last week murdered two PC's using the "King of Feathers" during our AL session (from Tomb of Annihilation)

    He gave the creature legendary actions, extra hitpoints, higher AC and extended the distance of the creature's innate misty step to 80ft as well as making it usable with its legendary actions. Just to be clear, the king of feathers can misty step at will but it still can be done using only a bonus action on its own turn and it doesn't have access to legendary actions.

    Not only that, after grappling a player with it's bite attack it would use aforementioned misty step to pull the unconscious PC away from the party and crit said player to death with as many (legendary) actions as necessary and then immediately turn to attack another player. This resulted in the deaths of two players and of his own admission afterwards created a creature with a CR 16 stat block (250 hp 17 AC). He was like "I don't know why they gave this creature these abilities, it pretty much makes it a CR 16 creature."

    Something seemed fishy; the developers of modules wouldn't throw a CR 16 creature at a tier 2 level 5 and 6 party so I looked up what the creature was actually and found out he added a whole **** load to the creature as well as meta gamed it into a murderhouse.

    I'm all for a challenge but how does a Tyrannosaurus rex tell the difference between an unconscious PC and a dead PC? Why would it teleport away the rest of the group to prevent a rez when it has an intelligence score of 2! It also wouldn't be able to teleport with a person grappled in its mouth and bring said creature with it.

    All in all this DM seemed out for blood and he got it. He killed two people during the death curse and they are now forced to use surrogates.

    What should I do?
    Last edited by TheUser; 2017-12-05 at 09:02 PM.
    "What most people tend to forget is that statistically speaking, 50% of people out there have below average intelligence."

    Advanced Sorcerer Guide


  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Feb 2017

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheUser View Post

    Something seemed fishy; the developers of modules wouldn't throw a CR 16 creature at a tier 2 party
    Err, not that I agree with any of the bs your DM did, nor do I want to spoil anything, but Tomb of Annihilation is the kind of campaign were stuff like that happens.

    I've watched a video of this module yesterday, the PC encountered a CR 6 Cyclops at level 3.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheUser View Post
    What should I do?
    You're playing AL, aren't there people to supervise the situation? If your DM refuses to retcon the death because he clearly didn't respect the AL rules, you and your fellow players should go to them and explain what happened to whoever is in charge.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Death realm

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Not picking sides, but in the last chapter alone the pcs can fight cr21 and above fights.... while at most around 12

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Orc in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    Err, not that I agree with any of the bs your DM did, nor do I want to spoil anything, but Tomb of Annihilation is the kind of campaign were stuff like that happens.

    I've watched a video of this module yesterday, the PC encountered a CR 6 Cyclops at level 3.
    Just to be crystal clear, we were level 5 and level 6. So perhaps I should use the term "barely tier 2"
    "What most people tend to forget is that statistically speaking, 50% of people out there have below average intelligence."

    Advanced Sorcerer Guide


  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Don't read stat blocks or don't assume monsters are using premade stat blocks. You feel cheated because a monster was altered to be nastier. Nothing is going to change what happened so what is the point? You can always walk away if you aren't enjoying the game. Other than that...

    Unless DM's can't alter monsters in AL.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Orc in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by lunaticfringe View Post
    Don't read stat blocks or don't assume monsters are using premade stat blocks. You feel cheated because a monster was altered to be nastier. Nothing is going to change what happened so what is the point? You can always walk away if you aren't enjoying the game. Other than that...

    Unless DM's can't alter monsters in AL.
    There was more than just the alteration of the stat block.

    He used misty step to teleport with a grappled creature, changed the distance the spell could travel and played the creature like an intelligence 10 (by metagaming to counter healing a downed party member) instead of a 2 intelligence tyrannosaurus.
    "What most people tend to forget is that statistically speaking, 50% of people out there have below average intelligence."

    Advanced Sorcerer Guide


  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by lunaticfringe View Post
    Don't read stat blocks or don't assume monsters are using premade stat blocks. You feel cheated because a monster was altered to be nastier. Nothing is going to change what happened so what is the point? You can always walk away if you aren't enjoying the game. Other than that...

    Unless DM's can't alter monsters in AL.
    They can't. Therein lies the problem.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Um animals don't stand their ground when outnumbered unless you corner them so I find arguments about dumb beasts not standing still like doofs irrelevant.

    Likewise with attacking downed players. Predators rip tear and slam fresh kills around especially if they are smaller. And technically 0 hp is passed out not dead.

    Intelligence scores and how they affect behaviour is wide open to interpretation. I wouldn't focus on that part at all when seeking a resolution.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Redding, CT, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    In AL DM's can alter HP somewhat, but beyond that, the modifications your DM made go against AL rules. He'd have to retcon the encounter and deaths.
    Spoiler: My Favorite PC's
    Show
    Malik Hammerson-VHuman- Ranger (Hunter) 4/Cleric (War) 4: "MY LIFE SUCKS!"
    Valicus Pyr'Ticosta-High Elf-Wizard (Bladesinger) 9: "You killed my father! And Sister! And a few of my guards! Prepare to die!"
    Zarkelthore Surfacekin-Half Drow-Ranger (Hunter) 6: "What's a Sun? Why are you laughing?"

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Oct 2016

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Iíve been in a similar situation as well, where the DM made the monsters tougher (often a good thing) but then used those suped-up monsters to kill characters or (in one case) wipe the team.

    Not sure what you can do about it. If they violated any of the AL rules, then technically it wasnít an AL-legal session; (and to be honest DMs like that are usually breaking at least one rule if you look hard enough) óbut this situation can definitely happen totally within AL guidelines.

    At a minimum, Iíd recommend mentioning it to the event organizer (if there is one). They should at least know about it.
    Last edited by Zene; 2017-12-04 at 07:03 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Orc in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by lunaticfringe View Post
    Um animals don't stand their ground when outnumbered unless you corner them so I find arguments about dumb beasts not standing still like doofs irrelevant.

    Likewise with attacking downed players. Predators rip tear and slam fresh kills around especially if they are smaller. And technically 0 hp is passed out not dead.

    Intelligence scores and how they affect behaviour is wide open to interpretation. I wouldn't focus on that part at all when seeking a resolution.
    So if it spends 2 attacks after downing a creature and then only 1 on the next before re-targeting then where exactly do you draw the line? It did precisely enough attacks to kill a creature while unconscious and then swapped targets (2 for the first PC and 1 for another). If it had blind sense/sight to hear heartbeats I might be inclined to go along with it...but it doesn't...

    If he kept attacking a PC even after it was dead I might understand there too, but there's no discernible difference between an unconscious and dead creature; once it stops moving the creature either flees as you say (though it's a HUGE creature vs 6 medium creatures) or it pursues a new target, instead it used exactly the right number of attacks to kill a creature and then move on.
    Last edited by TheUser; 2017-12-04 at 07:11 PM.
    "What most people tend to forget is that statistically speaking, 50% of people out there have below average intelligence."

    Advanced Sorcerer Guide


  12. - Top - End - #12
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    One of my pet peeves as a DM is to have a player with the MM open calling out that no, a troll has exactly 'x' hitpoints and must be dead because they've dealt that much. This is part of why I despise the entire concept of Adventure League. The modules, as built, are cakewalks for any party of competent players... and if the DM adjusts the difficulty upward a bit, players start crying about it.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Yeah a beast attacking until something is Dead Dead doesn't strike me as odd. Predatory Instincts, attack prey until dead. A humanoid out numbered 6-1 using that behavior strikes me as a bit fishy.

    My larger point is there are no rules for how creatures are to be played. You are upset so you are making a list of everything you find suspect. The only thing that can be determined about you feeling butthurt about how the creature was played tactically is that you would have played it differently. Big whoop/Who cares

    You already have evidence to make case to whoever polices your event. The tactics thing is just moaning.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Orc in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Panda View Post
    One of my pet peeves as a DM is to have a player with the MM open calling out that no, a troll has exactly 'x' hitpoints and must be dead because they've dealt that much. This is part of why I despise the entire concept of Adventure League. The modules, as built, are cakewalks for any party of competent players... and if the DM adjusts the difficulty upward a bit, players start crying about it.
    I agree, raising the AC and HP creatures is important to maintaining a challenge, except those two factors were not my primary concern.

    It was more that death curse is running, there are very strict rules around it, and now 2 players in the group have to play characters they didn't even design because the DM did far more than just increase AC and HP. He upped the teleport distance, let it teleport other creatures, gave it a slew of legendary actions and used metagamey tactics like playing keep away from healers that didn't even heal once in the entire encounter.
    "What most people tend to forget is that statistically speaking, 50% of people out there have below average intelligence."

    Advanced Sorcerer Guide


  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2007

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Sounds like the DM doesn't understand that the game has evolved from the "me vs the players" paradigm. Or that killing downed characters while the rest of the party is still going strong is both a bad tactical decision and, from an OOC perspective, petty and spiteful. This is what we call a killer DM, and having one running Adventurer's League makes everyone involved look bad. I suggest complaining to people responsible.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheUser View Post
    I agree, raising the AC and HP creatures is important to maintaining a challenge, except those two factors were not my primary concern.

    It was more that death curse is running, there are very strict rules around it, and now 2 players in the group have to play characters they didn't even design because the DM did far more than just increase AC and HP. He upped the teleport distance, let it teleport other creatures, gave it a slew of legendary actions and used metagamey tactics like playing keep away from healers that didn't even heal once in the entire encounter.
    That's fair, and altering those aspects was probably a pretty **** thing for him to do.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Feb 2017

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Giving Legendary Actions to a creature who doesn't have them is probably the clearest exemple of going against AL rules

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    California
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelic View Post
    They can't. Therein lies the problem.
    Yes, they absolutely can. The AL DMG specifically says DMs can alter scenarios and monsters so long as they keep the basic intent of the scenario. This is especially important when running hardback books, because those don't come with pre-written examples of how to scale up or down scenes based on average party level.

    So while it does suck that PCs die, the DM did nothing against the rules of AL. There is zero recourse for this.

    To the OP: the best you can do is pool together some cash and pay for a resurrection to bring those PC back.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Orc in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by mgshamster View Post
    Yes, they absolutely can. The AL DMG specifically says DMs can alter scenarios and monsters so long as they keep the basic intent of the scenario. This is especially important when running hardback books, because those don't come with pre-written examples of how to scale up or down scenes based on average party level.

    So while it does suck that PCs die, the DM did nothing against the rules of AL. There is zero recourse for this.

    To the OP: the best you can do is pool together some cash and pay for a resurrection to bring those PC back.
    Death. Curse.
    "What most people tend to forget is that statistically speaking, 50% of people out there have below average intelligence."

    Advanced Sorcerer Guide


  20. - Top - End - #20
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2017

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by mgshamster View Post
    Yes, they absolutely can. The AL DMG specifically says DMs can alter scenarios and monsters so long as they keep the basic intent of the scenario. This is especially important when running hardback books, because those don't come with pre-written examples of how to scale up or down scenes based on average party level.

    So while it does suck that PCs die, the DM did nothing against the rules of AL. There is zero recourse for this.

    To the OP: the best you can do is pool together some cash and pay for a resurrection to bring those PC back.
    Basic intent of the scenario.

    Giving a monster legendary actions, resistances, crazy buffs to ability, etc. is NOT following the basic intent of the scenario.

    Itís a complete hose job. Thereís being tough and designing difficult encounters, but the example here is a complete load of horse manure.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Nifft's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zene View Post
    but then used those suped-up monsters to kill characters
    I just want to say that you're awesome for using "suped-up" correctly.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheUser View Post
    Death. Curse.
    *shrugs*

    Sucks being a player, yo. Isn't part of the ToA season being scared & really inconvenienced by Death? Hardmode & Lethal encounters seems thematically appropriate. Loss Sucks, Roleplay them feels homie.

    I refer you to my first post.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    California
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheUser View Post
    Death. Curse.
    So bring in a surrogate character, defeat Acerak, and release your previous PC from the Death Curse.

    You can read up on this here:

    http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/news/tomb-annihilation

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mephnick's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2012

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by lunaticfringe View Post
    *shrugs*

    Sucks being a player, yo. Isn't part of the ToA season being scared & really inconvenienced by Death? Hardmode & Lethal encounters seems thematically appropriate. Loss Sucks, Roleplay them feels homie.

    I refer you to my first post.
    Man, I've been called a "killer" DM, but it's pretty obvious the guy ****ed them over on purpose. This would be justifiable for a home game with lots of hints going in to it, but out of the blue for an AL game that supposedly has standards to follow it's pretty lame.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Dalebert's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by mgshamster View Post
    Yes, they absolutely can. The AL DMG specifically says DMs can alter scenarios and monsters so long as they keep the basic intent of the scenario.
    No. They can remove monsters and they can add thematic monsters from approved sources, e.g. MM, Volo's, any of the monsters introduced in various campaign books, e.g. crag cats from SKT. Arguably this could result in a completely different encounter. They absolutely cannot make up new monsters or alter monsters from those approved sources. You can possibly increase their hp within the normal range the monster can have instead of just using average. That's about the only stat change allowed.
    If you cast Dispel Magic on my Gust of Wind, does that mean you're disgusting?

    In real estate, they say it's all about location, location, location. In D&D I say it's about action economy, action economy, action economy.

    Crystal Mage -- a homebrewed arcane tradition

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Orc in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalebert View Post
    No. They can remove monsters and they can add thematic monsters from approved sources, e.g. MM, Volo's, any of the monsters introduced in various campaign books, e.g. crag cats from SKT. Arguably this could result in a completely different encounter. They absolutely cannot make up new monsters or alter monsters from those approved sources. You can possibly increase their hp within the normal range the monster can have instead of just using average. That's about the only stat change allowed.
    That sounds logical, do you have a source on that rule?
    "What most people tend to forget is that statistically speaking, 50% of people out there have below average intelligence."

    Advanced Sorcerer Guide


  27. - Top - End - #27
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by lunaticfringe View Post
    *shrugs*

    Sucks being a player, yo. Isn't part of the ToA season being scared & really inconvenienced by Death? Hardmode & Lethal encounters seems thematically appropriate. Loss Sucks, Roleplay them feels homie.

    I refer you to my first post.
    I know. How dare those players expect a sanctioned game that is meant to be mostly uniform due to it being AL think that they should have any sort of uniformity by some jerk DM who decided to add some kill stickers to their DM screen. Sucks to be them! Hope you didn't enjoy that character that you've been building for several months at different tables! Ha ha!
    Last edited by Mikal; 2017-12-05 at 09:09 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Jun 2016

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Just wipe the death from your character's history and find another DM, that's what most players do and that's what AL supports.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by mgshamster View Post
    Yes, they absolutely can. The AL DMG specifically says DMs can alter scenarios and monsters so long as they keep the basic intent of the scenario. This is especially important when running hardback books, because those don't come with pre-written examples of how to scale up or down scenes based on average party level.

    So while it does suck that PCs die, the DM did nothing against the rules of AL. There is zero recourse for this.

    To the OP: the best you can do is pool together some cash and pay for a resurrection to bring those PC back.

    No, they absolutely can't. There are certain things an AL DM can do to alter an adventure, and certain things he or she cannot.

    An AL DM is free to make minor changes to adventurers, but is expected to adhere to the text of both the rules and the adventure. He or she can add thematically-appropriate monsters to an encounter, as described in the AL DM's Guide. However, there are also numerous things an AL DM is not empowered to do. He or she cannot, for example, add rewards to the adventure. He or she cannot alter rules, or use optional rules beyond those explicitly approved for AL use. He or she also cannot customize monster stat-blocks, which falls under the category of "altering rules." This is an extremely well-established principle of AL play; if you like, I'd be more than happy to hunt down admin posts clarifying this point, of which there have been many.

    Adding more monsters to the encounter would have been within an AL DM's purview. Rewriting the monster's stats is a significant no-no.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikal View Post
    I know. How dare those players expect a sanctioned game that is meant to be mostly uniform due to it being AL think that they should have any sort of uniformity by some jerk DM who decided to add some kill stickers to their DM screen. Sucks to be them! Hope you didn't enjoy that character that you've been building for several months at different tables! Ha ha!
    My...God...

    You're right, what was I thinking? He should probably slash that DM's tires and spend every AL session verbally abusing him/her. Or crowd fund plane tickets for us so we can go beat them up.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •