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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Panda View Post
    One of my pet peeves as a DM is to have a player with the MM open calling out that no, a troll has exactly 'x' hitpoints and must be dead because they've dealt that much. This is part of why I despise the entire concept of Adventure League. The modules, as built, are cakewalks for any party of competent players... and if the DM adjusts the difficulty upward a bit, players start crying about it.
    .... Have you READ Storm Kings Thunder?

    TWELVE FROST GIANTS. Vs a standard party level six of adventurers. If you play that at all intelligently the PC's are screwed.
    Last edited by druid91; 2017-12-05 at 06:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    .... Have you READ Storm Kings Thunder?

    TWELVE FROST GIANTS. Vs a standard party level six of adventurers. If you play that at all intelligently the PC's are screwed.
    The intention is that you fight a few giants and the wolves, with NPC help. The rest of the giants are just scene dressing. Ends up being like..a triple deadly encounter that you get to blow all your resources on. Tough, but not exactly crazy. It mostly just highlights the problems with that campaign, in that you get to nova every encounter, making anything not super Deadly pointless and the actual challenging fights Maximum Rocket Tag. Unfortunately no one has explained the adventuring day to the writers of the modules yet.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by mephnick View Post
    The intention is that you fight a few giants and the wolves, with NPC help. The rest of the giants are just scene dressing. Ends up being like..a triple deadly encounter that you get to blow all your resources on. Tough, but not exactly crazy. It mostly just highlights the problems with that campaign, in that you get to nova every encounter, making anything not super Deadly pointless and the actual challenging fights Maximum Rocket Tag. Unfortunately no one has explained the adventuring day to the writers of the modules yet.
    Except they're only scene dressing if you play it deliberately mind bogglingly stupid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

    Torumekian knight Avatar by Licoot.

    Note to self: Never get involved in an ethics thread again...Especially if I'm defending the empire.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by mephnick View Post
    The intention is that you fight a few giants and the wolves, with NPC help. The rest of the giants are just scene dressing. Ends up being like..a triple deadly encounter that you get to blow all your resources on. Tough, but not exactly crazy. It mostly just highlights the problems with that campaign, in that you get to nova every encounter, making anything not super Deadly pointless and the actual challenging fights Maximum Rocket Tag. Unfortunately no one has explained the adventuring day to the writers of the modules yet.
    I'm currently in that campaign and actually just finished that encounter. You telling me they're all like that??!?

    I spent that entire combat being paranoid about being hit. The npcs rolled terribly and almost all of them fell, so we had to spend resources to heal them. The NPC's in that town are *so weak*. It really felt like almost a hindrance having them around, because I felt compelled to protect them.
    Argue in good faith.

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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    I'm going to be wrapping up Rise of Tiamat in a few weeks and starting Storm King's with my RL crew. This sounds terrifying.
    Last edited by TheUser; 2017-12-05 at 09:01 PM.
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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheUser View Post
    I'm going to be wrapping up Rise of Tiamat in a few weeks and starting Storm King's with my RL crew. This sounds terrifying.
    I'm sure it's not that bad, but that one fight in particular was scary.

    "Wait, the npc only gets one attack?"

    "Yup."

    "oh crap."
    Last edited by krugaan; 2017-12-05 at 09:08 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    Except they're only scene dressing if you play it deliberately mind bogglingly stupid.
    The book tells you to fight Drufi and her allies while the other giants bomb the city in the background. They all run once Drufi's unit is killed. It's not "playing it stupid", that's literally the encounter...

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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by krugaan View Post
    The NPC's in that town are *so weak*. It really felt like almost a hindrance having them around, because I felt compelled to protect them.
    I think that was the intent. Keeping them alive was the real challenge of the encounter.
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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalebert View Post
    I think that was the intent. Keeping them alive was the real challenge of the encounter.
    It's the challenge of all the Chapter 2 encounters. They're literally "how many sidequests can you save?" tests.

    Most of them have built in success points. Hell, the Triboar one the Fire Giants don't even acknowledge you for the most part and run away if they win or lose.

    I have no idea why DM's are running these things like TPK encounters, which seems to have been druid91's experience.

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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    This was posted by an admin about an hour ago with an admin tag. "#AL_Admin" means he's stating it in his capacity as an admin and thus making it an official ruling for AL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Woodall
    Group Admin
    DMs may not create custom monsters. #AL_Admin
    Just thought it was worth posting since many here still don't accept that you can't make custom monsters for AL. That also means altering the stats of existing monsters which makes them a custom monster.
    If you cast Dispel Magic on my Gust of Wind, does that mean you're disgusting?

    In real estate, they say it's all about location, location, location. In D&D I say it's about action economy, action economy, action economy.

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  11. - Top - End - #71
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalebert View Post
    This was posted by an admin about an hour ago with an admin tag. "#AL_Admin" means he's stating it in his capacity as an admin and thus making it an official ruling for AL.



    Just thought it was worth posting since many here still don't accept that you can't make custom monsters for AL. That also means altering the stats of existing monsters which makes them a custom monster.
    Does the admin who responded know that, or are they working under the assumption that a DM is making up their own monsters from scratch?

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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by mephnick View Post
    It's the challenge of all the Chapter 2 encounters. They're literally "how many sidequests can you save?" tests.

    Most of them have built in success points. Hell, the Triboar one the Fire Giants don't even acknowledge you for the most part and run away if they win or lose.

    I have no idea why DM's are running these things like TPK encounters, which seems to have been druid91's experience.
    Urgh, please wrap the stuff with a spoiler (I guess if it comes after the Brynshander fight).
    Argue in good faith.

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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalebert View Post
    This was posted by an admin about an hour ago with an admin tag. "#AL_Admin" means he's stating it in his capacity as an admin and thus making it an official ruling for AL.



    Just thought it was worth posting since many here still don't accept that you can't make custom monsters for AL. That also means altering the stats of existing monsters which makes them a custom monster.

    Heh. I was wondering who in my thread was on these boards. (I noticed a couple of people mentioning which monster it was, even though I hadn't stipulated.)

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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by mgshamster View Post
    Does the admin who responded know that, or are they working under the assumption that a DM is making up their own monsters from scratch?

    The circumstances were specifically described in the initial Facebook post, so, yeah, he knows the circumstances.

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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelic View Post
    The circumstances were specifically described in the initial Facebook post, so, yeah, he knows the circumstances.
    Perfect! Thanks.

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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalebert View Post
    This was posted by an admin about an hour ago with an admin tag. "#AL_Admin" means he's stating it in his capacity as an admin and thus making it an official ruling for AL.



    Just thought it was worth posting since many here still don't accept that you can't make custom monsters for AL. That also means altering the stats of existing monsters which makes them a custom monster.
    Where is the source? My DM apparently responded I want to see the entire discussion :D
    Last edited by TheUser; 2017-12-06 at 10:34 PM.
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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheUser View Post
    Where is the source? My DM apparently responded I want to see the entire discussion :D
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/DMsL...0151167391127/
    If you cast Dispel Magic on my Gust of Wind, does that mean you're disgusting?

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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    argh I need to be approved by an admin to view it :(


    EDIT: Any way you can get a screen cap?
    Last edited by TheUser; 2017-12-07 at 02:28 PM.
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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalebert View Post
    This was posted by an admin about an hour ago with an admin tag. "#AL_Admin" means he's stating it in his capacity as an admin and thus making it an official ruling for AL.



    Just thought it was worth posting since many here still don't accept that you can't make custom monsters for AL. That also means altering the stats of existing monsters which makes them a custom monster.
    Hey! I'm following that thread on FB too, and I saw that post.

    I admit I haven't read every single one of the various comments and replies, but from the context I did see, I'm pretty certain "No custom monsters" does not equal "No modifications to monsters at all". There's lots of AL guidance saying DMs can make certain changes to statblocks, and in fact an admin was reiterating that earlier in the thread. So (as seems to happen a lot in AL), he's posted something that can be interpreted in any number of ways. If it truly means "no modifications to a monster's stat block at all", then that's a major divergence from almost everything AL has said on the subject in the past (including current published materials). If it means instead that there's some line (in Travis' head) where modifying a statblock past a certain point makes it a custom monster... well that seems much more likely to me. It would be awesome to have that line described in slightly more detail, so we're not in a situation where a modification (and thus a game session) is legal or illegal depending on who you ask.

    Right underneath his comment there were several comments basically asking "well what makes it a custom monster vs. an acceptable modification to a statblock" and last I saw, there weren't any further hashtag AL_admin comments providing any more clarity.

    If I missed one though --or anyone sees one pop up-- please do share here.
    Last edited by Zene; 2017-12-07 at 01:16 AM.

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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zene View Post
    Hey! I'm following that thread on FB too, and I saw that post.

    I admit I haven't read every single one of the various comments and replies, but from the context I did see, I'm pretty certain "No custom monsters" does not equal "No modifications to monsters at all". There's lots of AL guidance saying DMs can make certain changes to statblocks, and in fact an admin was reiterating that earlier in the thread. So (as seems to happen a lot in AL), he's posted something that can be interpreted in any number of ways. If it truly means "no modifications to a monster's stat block at all", then that's a major divergence from almost everything AL has said on the subject in the past (including current published materials). If it means instead that there's some line (in Travis' head) where modifying a statblock past a certain point makes it a custom monster... well that seems much more likely to me. It would be awesome to have that line described in slightly more detail, so we're not in a situation where a modification (and thus a game session) is legal or illegal depending on who you ask.

    Right underneath his comment there were several comments basically asking "well what makes it a custom monster vs. an acceptable modification to a statblock" and last I saw, there weren't any further hashtag AL_admin comments providing any more clarity.

    If I missed one though --or anyone sees one pop up-- please do share here.
    The line feels pretty simple to me.

    You can take a creature's hit dice and max it since this could technically be its HP from rolls (which technically isn't altering the stat block).

    Trying to draw some arbitrary line that can be skewed by poor judgement just leads to DM's taking liberties they may not be able to correctly limit (As seen in our current example of abuse). The assumption should be that not every DM can reliably balance a creature with stat modifications the way a module would, ergo you shouldn't open the door to that mismanagement, especially when attempting to establish a standard form of gameplay.
    Last edited by TheUser; 2017-12-07 at 01:34 AM.
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  21. - Top - End - #81
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    mad Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    OP: Having read your posts I am unclear on an important point. Are either of these characters actually played by you?

    If neither of these characters are played by yourself, then whether you have standing to question the decision or not, doing so would be a horrible decision on your part. Realistically your best course of action is to either find another DM (with or without the rest of your group according to their preferences) or just accept what happened and move forward.

    DnD is also supposed to be fun for the DM after all, it's a game not a competition. Once you start fact-checking rulings and trying to retcon decisions OOC it stops being fun and usually ends up with the whole group looking for new tables to play at.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheUser View Post
    The group's been steamrolling most encounters save for that one and one prior where we made two attempts to murder a CR 10 dragon named Tinder, it killed 2 PC's on the first attempt and almost killed another the second attempt (which makes sense given only half of the group was level 5 and everyone else was below)...
    ...I don't envy his position, he has 6 or 7 players to balance encounters around. This was just a time where he clearly attempted to re-introduce the element of mortality and went overkill.
    The above was, reasonable. Now I'm going to be REAL.

    I've heard horror-stories of "Power-Gamer McMunchkin," the multi-classed Meta-Gamer/Rules-Lawyer before but it sounds like this is a case of a relatively inexperienced DM trying to wrangle a half-dozen CoffeeLocks all armed with Swords of Kaz and Talisman's of Ultimate Entitlement.

    The party at the table in question is clearly OOC as in "out of control." You're fighting Dragons at 4th/5th level and characterizing the undertaking as "Attempted Murder!?" What, the actual F? So two characters died... at most tables the ensuing TPK would go on the record as:

    "6 adventurers of the Leeeeroooy JENKINS! Party commit suicide by Dragon." Your party tried that twice and didn't even make it halfway to a TPK. You absolutely need to be reigned in.

    How were you planning to celebrate hitting tenth level? By making the Tarrasque your prison-wife? What about 20th? Were you guys planning to smash the DM's dice, eat all his Pizza and steal his dog?

    I can't even say that your DM over-corrected since, taking your statements at face value, actively trying to play the Killer-DM on his part resulted in the same casualty rate under the same circumstances (party isn't even half-way to CR being level-appropriate.) The only thing the guy that you're bashing to the internet is guilty of is letting your party get so out of hand that even a mug of good old-fashioned cheating couldn't restore the balance in-game or in-character.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheUser View Post
    I also e-mail the DM in question and let him know the jig is up. He tried to give a half-measure in that he would undo the session and the death for that one PC and allow the PC to be played at other tables (but not his own), but said nothing of the surrogate casualty (maybe just expect that player to play another surrogate). I'll just let the aggrieved players know and let them notify the event organizer.
    On top of all that this poor guy has to try and go about his day while you try to disrupt it with nasty emails?

    If someone pulled this kind of crap on my DM, at our table, he wouldn't have stopped at "rocks-fall-everybody-dies." We'd all have to spend the next two hours watching characters die during character-generation in Traveller until he was confident that when he called for a vote the rest of us would kick you right out.

    This is a perfect example of why myself and the rest of the Table I play with don't play AL and barely ever visit our FLGS anymore, as well as why I usually just lurk the forums without commenting.

  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    So entitled DM instead of entitled players then? ;p
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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post

    The above was, reasonable. Now I'm going to be REAL.

    I've heard horror-stories of "Power-Gamer McMunchkin," the multi-classed Meta-Gamer/Rules-Lawyer before but it sounds like this is a case of a relatively inexperienced DM trying to wrangle a half-dozen CoffeeLocks all armed with Swords of Kaz and Talisman's of Ultimate Entitlement.

    The party at the table in question is clearly OOC as in "out of control." You're fighting Dragons at 4th/5th level and characterizing the undertaking as "Attempted Murder!?" What, the actual F? So two characters died... at most tables the ensuing TPK would go on the record as:

    "6 adventurers of the Leeeeroooy JENKINS! Party commit suicide by Dragon." Your party tried that twice and didn't even make it halfway to a TPK. You absolutely need to be reigned in.

    How were you planning to celebrate hitting tenth level? By making the Tarrasque your prison-wife? What about 20th? Were you guys planning to smash the DM's dice, eat all his Pizza and steal his dog?

    I can't even say that your DM over-corrected since, taking your statements at face value, actively trying to play the Killer-DM on his part resulted in the same casualty rate under the same circumstances (party isn't even half-way to CR being level-appropriate.) The only thing the guy that you're bashing to the internet is guilty of is letting your party get so out of hand that even a mug of good old-fashioned cheating couldn't restore the balance in-game or in-character.

    It's not a bloody dragon OP is complaining about. OP even said people dying at the dragon encounter was normal.

    OP is talking about an encounter that's supposed to be a somewhat buffed up T. Rex. Except the DM DOUBLED its CR.

    The party aren't out-of-control munchkins. They're following the adventure's possibilities.

    You're not being "REAL", you're insulting people and telling them they did something they didn't do.

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post

    If someone pulled this kind of crap on my DM, at our table, he wouldn't have stopped at "rocks-fall-everybody-dies." We'd all have to spend the next two hours watching characters die during character-generation in Traveller until he was confident that when he called for a vote the rest of us would kick you right out.
    So your DM is the kind that when confronted with how he bs-ed people, would kill characters for two hours until your group is bullied enough to obey him when he ask you to kick a player out, or else?

    Whoa.
    Last edited by Unoriginal; 2017-12-07 at 06:21 AM.

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    confused Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    You're not being "REAL", you're insulting people and telling them they did something they didn't do.
    Let's be clear, there's a big difference between perceiving a slight and one existing. I did not insult anyone, unless you count being "inexperienced" as an insult which I don't, everyone suffers from it at some point in their lives. With that exception everything you quoted is very clearly written as conjecture in reference to:

    Either the behavior of the party in question. Or, the logical outcome of the behavior in question based on my experience with DnD.

    Returning to the topic at hand though:

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    It's not a bloody dragon OP is complaining about. OP even said people dying at the dragon encounter was normal.

    OP is talking about an encounter that's supposed to be a somewhat buffed up T. Rex. Except the DM DOUBLED its CR.
    Mechanically the two are the same. A CR10 Dragon encountered by a party of 6-7 4th-5th level adventurers is exactly as fair as a CR16 encounter for a party of 6-7 8th level adventurers. The only difference between the two is that the OP expected the second encounter to be roughly CR8 as a result of having read the module.

    Whether the DM homebrewed or not to double the CR of the buffed up T-Rex is clearly not relevant since the result was exactly the same as a previous encounter, 2 dead PCs.

    The only pertinent point in this case is that the OP and other members of the party expected the second encounter to be easier than it was, objectively it was exactly as difficult as a previous encounter that he acknowledges to have been "fair."

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    The party aren't out-of-control munchkins. They're following the adventure's possibilities.
    I stand by my assessment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    So your DM is the kind that when confronted with how he bs-ed people, would kill characters for two hours until your group is bullied enough to obey him when he ask you to kick a player out, or else?

    Whoa.
    I'm going to forgive your ignorance on this topic, which is not an insult but a conjectural conclusion informed by having played DnD since before the internet was a thing.

    For your information, our DM is the kind of guy who spends a good 12 hours or so a week of his own time so that you can have 4 or 5 hours of fun. To support this he will invite you into his home, offer you his delicious barbecued delicacies and allow you to interact with his children and family like you are a part of it among other things. He will provide the beer. Out of respect for this fact we, as adults, make sure that we give our friend every benefit of the doubt so that, even though he sometimes has to tell us "no" or "the bugbear's blade shears through your armor like so much wool as you fall screaming into darkness... you're dead, I'll need you to wait in the kitchen" he is still feels included and has fun.

    When someone acts disruptively then he, and the rest of our group reacts accordingly.

  25. - Top - End - #85
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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    I think you need to dial it back a bit jojo.

    Your account reeks of throwaway and your emotional tone leads me to believe you either have a horse in this race or are being excessively triggered at the notion that a DM must follow rules in adventure league just as much as the players.

    Stop bringing up anything to do with your home games and your personal DM; The topic at hand is not a home game, and doesn't involve your friends. Bringing it up is off topic and distracts from the discussion. Nobody cares about how lovely a man your DM is.

    Secondly, creating a false equivalency between two fights you did not experience solely based on results is a huge logical fallacy. This would be akin to saying that 1st degree murder and manslaughter are exactly the same because the outcome is the same. They are not.

    Seeing as you weren't even a part of these fights (were you?) you'll have to trust me that indeed, one of the encounters was with a party at full power (both Tinder fights), took well over 10 rounds of play and also took place with a creature that has an actual CR attached to it legitimately from the game's creators. The King of Feathers was fought after the party fought 6 CR 5 creatures (at once).

    The fact that we are even calling this custom creature a CR 16 is only because of the testimony of the DM in question; we actually have no idea what CR it is because technically speaking...it doesn't have one assigned by the creators of the game and that's the whole point of this debate. When a DM starts running custom monsters in a campaign there is no way to properly assess how they will play and how they will affect player experience. In the context of death curse, you are now taking away months of play time from a player and forcing them into the shoes of a character they didn't design, all based on something a DM is experimenting with and isn't actually balanced or tested internally by WotC.

    In the first example with the Tinder fight, it is a WotC designed encounter that killed 2 players, in the second example the DM designed a monster that killed 2 players. That's the difference. The fact you can't see it is pretty telling of your being emotionally compromised or invested at this point.
    Last edited by TheUser; 2017-12-07 at 10:21 AM.
    "What most people tend to forget is that statistically speaking, 50% of people out there have below average intelligence."

    Advanced Sorcerer Guide


  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Let's be clear, there's a big difference between perceiving a slight and one existing. I did not insult anyone, unless you count being "inexperienced" as an insult which I don't, everyone suffers from it at some point in their lives.
    There is indeed a difference between perceiving a slight and one existing. The issue is, equating people with "Power-Gamer McMunchkin", saying that they are out of control and implying they're entitled whiners who send nasty e-mails is insulting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Mechanically the two are the same. A CR10 Dragon encountered by a party of 6-7 4th-5th level adventurers is exactly as fair as a CR16 encounter for a party of 6-7 8th level adventurers. The only difference between the two is that the OP expected the second encounter to be roughly CR8 as a result of having read the module.

    Whether the DM homebrewed or not to double the CR of the buffed up T-Rex is clearly not relevant since the result was exactly the same as a previous encounter, 2 dead PCs.
    One, OP is claiming to have checked the module only after the facts, and there is no reason to doubt that.

    Second, no, they're not the same mechanically, even if they resulted in the same number of deaths. Adding Legendary Actions and PC-teleporting powers make for a fight that's not deadly like the dragon was, but straight up designed to kill as many PCs as possible.

    Third, the problem is not to have a fight that's way tougher that what the PCs can handle. As I've said before, ToA is exactly the kind of campaign where something like that can happen.

    The problem is that the DM did something against the AL rules, then lied about it. If the DM had added more monsters like other dinosaurs or grung warriors or whatever, it would have been 100% legal and not a problem, even if the resulting encounter ended up being way tougher than the one in the book.


    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    I'm going to forgive your ignorance on this topic, which is not an insult but a conjectural conclusion informed by having played DnD since before the internet was a thing.

    For your information, our DM is the kind of guy who spends a good 12 hours or so a week of his own time so that you can have 4 or 5 hours of fun. To support this he will invite you into his home, offer you his delicious barbecued delicacies and allow you to interact with his children and family like you are a part of it among other things. He will provide the beer. Out of respect for this fact we, as adults, make sure that we give our friend every benefit of the doubt so that, even though he sometimes has to tell us "no" or "the bugbear's blade shears through your armor like so much wool as you fall screaming into darkness... you're dead, I'll need you to wait in the kitchen" he is still feels included and has fun.

    When someone acts disruptively then he, and the rest of our group reacts accordingly.
    It's nice that your group spend nice moments like that, and I hope you believe me when I say I'm sincerely happy for you that you've got a good group for so long.

    But if you're claiming that declaring "rock fall everyone dies" and then making characters suffer for two hours until the players side with the DM to kick out a player (which is what you claimed your DM would do) is reacting "accordingly", rather than just kicking the player out as a start (as it is a DM's right), then I have to repeat my assessment of "whoa".

  27. - Top - End - #87
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Thanks for the link. I noticed that early on there was a post that linked to an official AL document stating you can change stat blocks.

    So who do I believe? A Facebook post by an admin saying you can't, or an official document by WotC and AL saying you can?

    For reference, here's the document.

    And the relevant passage:

    consider granting creatures small boosts like the pack tactics ability, or granting a feat to a single creature in the encounter (though with great power comes great responsibility; tread carefully!)
    Now, with this passage, I will say that this particular DM went too far. You're allowed to make small changes. Heck, even Mr. AL_Admin in the Facebook thread says it's ok to change the HP so long as it's within range.

    But what this all tells me is that it's still OK to change the stat blocks - you just have to be reasonable about it. Was the OPs DM reasonable - probably not; was he doing what he thought he had to do to challenge the party - that we don't know unless we ask him.

    It does not say that you can't ever change them. And if that's the route we're going with (that you can't ever change them), then who do I believe? An admin's Facebook post or the official documents provided by AL?

  28. - Top - End - #88
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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by mgshamster View Post
    Thanks for the link. I noticed that early on there was a post that linked to an official AL document stating you can change stat blocks.

    So who do I believe? A Facebook post by an admin saying you can't, or an official document by WotC and AL saying you can?

    For reference, here's the document.

    And the relevant passage:



    Now, with this passage, I will say that this particular DM went too far. You're allowed to make small changes. Heck, even Mr. AL_Admin in the Facebook thread says it's ok to change the HP so long as it's within range.

    But what this all tells me is that it's still OK to change the stat blocks - you just have to be reasonable about it. Was the OPs DM reasonable - probably not; was he doing what he thought he had to do to challenge the party - that we don't know unless we ask him.

    It does not say that you can't ever change them. And if that's the route we're going with (that you can't ever change them), then who do I believe? An admin's Facebook post or the official documents provided by AL?
    The text directly say "small boost", and give one ability that grant advantages on certain conditions or one feat as exemple, with a "careful, don't overstep your responsibility" mention.

    I think it's clear that while small modifications are allowed, replacing the whole statblock obviously goes against it.

    The AL admin's ruling is that an AL DM cannot create custom monsters, which is different from making a small modification.

  29. - Top - End - #89
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    The text directly say "small boost", and give one ability that grant advantages on certain conditions or one feat as exemple, with a "careful, don't overstep your responsibility" mention.

    I think it's clear that while small modifications are allowed, replacing the whole statblock obviously goes against it.

    The AL admin's ruling is that an AL DM cannot create custom monsters, which is different from making a small modification.
    That's not what Dalebert said when he posted the admin's ruling. He specifically stated that modifying the stat block makes it a custom monster and is therefore not allowed.

    That also means altering the stats of existing monsters which makes them a custom monster.
    And when I asked for clarification if the admin knew that was the specific topic, the response was "yes."

  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Default Re: AL DM altered the stats on a monster and killed two PC's during death curse.

    Then I suppose contacting the admin who made the ruling for clarification is needed.

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