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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Question What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    So now that Xanthar's Guide to Everything has been out for a while now, what are the new most powerful builds?

    A. What class and subclass:
    1. have the highest damage out put?
    2. can tank the most damage?
    3. have the greatest advantage in social situations?
    4. are just the toughest to kill?
    5. are just the best in your opinion (and why?)

    B. What multi-class combination:
    1. have the highest damage out put?
    2. can tank the most damage?
    3. have the greatest advantage in social situations?
    4. are just the toughest to kill?
    5. are just the best in your opinion (and why?)

    And what races/race-variants would you usually use to go with these builds?

    EDIT: I'm more of a story trumps rules kind of guy, but I have a friend that's pretty big on mechanics. Because of this, he prefers 3.5 to 5e. Because of that, I'm trying to find something to get him to like 5e. That's the reason for my question.
    Last edited by Trey Bright; 2017-12-07 at 01:44 PM.
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    "Meta's" what?

    Hexblade is vastly considered to be the subclass with the most impact of the book, it gives damage and SADness to melee gishes, and there's an half-elf elven accuracy polearm master great weapon master darkness-devil's sight combo out there.

    But I wouldn't bother with the "best" options, any option is viable in this edition, so the meta really revolves around having fun.
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    Imp

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Toughest to kill is probably the Zealot Barbarian

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Haven't touched 5e in a while, sorcadin still a top-tier build or have things surpassed it significantly?

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Quote Originally Posted by rigsmal View Post
    Haven't touched 5e in a while, sorcadin still a top-tier build or have things surpassed it significantly?
    Things have not yet surpassed it significantly, but I think it's getting rivaled.

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    Flumph

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Bright View Post
    2. can tank the most damage?
    4. are just the toughest to kill?
    Bearogue is the most survivable
    Ancestrogue can probably reduce the team's damage by more tho

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
    Bearogue is the most survivable
    Ancestrogue can probably reduce the team's damage by more tho
    Bearbarian and Rogue? Would you play a dex-barb to mesh with the rouge levels?
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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Bright View Post
    Bearbarian and Rogue? Would you play a dex-barb to mesh with the rouge levels?
    No
    Rage works on Strength based Attacks
    Sneak Attack works on Finesse based Weapons, Not Dex based Attacks.

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
    No
    Rage works on Strength based Attacks
    Sneak Attack works on Finesse based Weapons, Not Dex based Attacks.
    There's a methodology that picks up rogue/barbarian as means to avoid damage. You play a dex-focused character so you can be SAD, then tack on damage resistance, then pickup uncanny dodge to further reduce said damage. Usually it goes Barb 5/rogue X for extra attack and more rages/day, but there are barb 3 or even barb 2 variations.

    Personally, I think its kind of a pointless build. If you want to be unkillable or have infinite HP, I always feel like going straight barbarian or going with an armor of agathys-based build is just always better.
    Last edited by tomato; 2017-12-06 at 08:38 AM.

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    Flumph

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomato View Post
    There's a methodology that picks up rogue/barbarian as means to avoid damage. You play a dex-focused character so you can be SAD, then tack on damage resistance, then pickup uncanny dodge to further reduce said damage. Usually it goes Barb 5/rogue X for extra attack and more rages/day, but there are barb 3 or even barb 2 variations.

    Personally, I think its kind of a pointless build. If you want to be unkillable or have infinite HP, I always feel like going straight barbarian or going with an armor of agathys-based build is just always better.
    160 damage Dex Save Fire Spell

    Save Failed -
    Pure Barb - 160 damage, Probably Dead
    AoA Lock - 160 damage, Probably Dead
    Bearbarian - 80 damage
    Bearogue - 40 damage

    Save Success
    Pure Barb - 80 damage
    AoA Lock - 80 damage
    Bearbarian - 40 damage
    Bearogue - 0 damage

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomato View Post
    There's a methodology that picks up rogue/barbarian as means to avoid damage. You play a dex-focused character so you can be SAD, then tack on damage resistance, then pickup uncanny dodge to further reduce said damage. Usually it goes Barb 5/rogue X for extra attack and more rages/day, but there are barb 3 or even barb 2 variations.

    Personally, I think its kind of a pointless build. If you want to be unkillable or have infinite HP, I always feel like going straight barbarian or going with an armor of agathys-based build is just always better.
    The synergy between Reckless Attack and Sneak Attack means you can always get your advantage/sneak attack off every round.

    The synergy between Danger Sense and Evasion means you are better at dex saving throws than either the rogue or the barbarian.

    The synergy between Rage and Uncanny Dodge means you are incredibly tough to kill, dividing the damage from a single attack by 4.

    There are other synergies between the two classes. Rage + Expertise for superior grappling, Fast Movement + Cunning Action for superior mobility, Feral Instinct + Brutal Critical + Assassinate means nastier surprise rounds...

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lombra View Post
    "Meta's" what?
    You say it sarcastically, but I really really hate that term. It's used in competitive games and doesn't translate to a cooperative games like D&D at all.

    Firstly, there isn't a cohesive community or tournament scene in D&D like in online games, tabletop wargames, TCGs, etc. It's a loosely coupled collection of individual gaming groups, each with it's own DM and probably own set of house rules.

    And secondly, metagame doesn't mean "trends" or "current releases and it's consequences". It's literally a different level of game, that you are trying to win, to get a competitive advantage. And if you're trying to win D&D, you're going against the core spirit of the game.

    Keep competitive slang in competitive games, please.

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naerytar View Post
    Keep competitive slang in competitive games, please.
    I would suggest directing your comments to the OP, rather than the blue text response. (I mostly concur with your sentiments).
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) or so I am told ... by 2D8HP

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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Gloom stalker 3 / fighter 11 has a ****ton of Nova :)

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Paladin/Warlock also has a substantial nova capability, thanks to the potential for double-smiting.

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naerytar View Post
    You say it sarcastically, but I really really hate that term. It's used in competitive games and doesn't translate to a cooperative games like D&D at all.

    Firstly, there isn't a cohesive community or tournament scene in D&D like in online games, tabletop wargames, TCGs, etc. It's a loosely coupled collection of individual gaming groups, each with it's own DM and probably own set of house rules.

    And secondly, metagame doesn't mean "trends" or "current releases and it's consequences". It's literally a different level of game, that you are trying to win, to get a competitive advantage. And if you're trying to win D&D, you're going against the core spirit of the game.

    Keep competitive slang in competitive games, please.
    I was actually pointing out the grammatical error in the title (he should have written "metas", the plural of meta, not "meta's" which means "of the meta", apostrophes matter ), but I 100% agree with you.
    English isn't my first language, so I will likely express myself poorly.
    Please pretend that I'm arguing in good faith, and that I mean no offense to anybody.

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    There always seems to be one obviously broken option in each new book and in this one it's the Hexblade. I've already eliminated it from the realm of possibility at my table. A homebrew-buffed Pact of the Blade already does everything the Hexblade is intended to.
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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    So far just from play i can tell you the new gloom ranger (i think that's what it's called, I'm afb right now) is completely op, at least in the OotA campaign I'm running, the guy is literally invisible all the time!

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Worrying about a Meta is, imo, dangerously close to treating D&D like World of Warcraft. If that's your thing, I guess it's cool, but to me it just feels wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lombra View Post
    [COLOR="#0000FF"]But I wouldn't bother with the "best" options, any option is viable in this edition, so the meta really revolves around having fun.
    This. Have fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    Toughest to kill is probably the Zealot Barbarian
    I was going to say Oath of Conquest Paladin, so long as the enemies aren't immune to being Frightened.

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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oramac View Post
    Worrying about a Meta is, imo, dangerously close to treating D&D like World of Warcraft. If that's your thing, I guess it's cool, but to me it just feels wrong.



    This. Have fun.



    I was going to say Oath of Conquest Paladin, so long as the enemies aren't immune to being Frightened.
    I'm more of a story trumps rules kind of guy, but I have a friend that's pretty big on mechanics. Because of this, he prefers 3.5 to 5e. Because of this, I'm trying to find something to get him to like 5e. That's the reason for my question.
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Quote Originally Posted by poolio View Post
    So far just from play i can tell you the new gloom ranger (i think that's what it's called, I'm afb right now) is completely op, at least in the OotA campaign I'm running, the guy is literally invisible all the time!
    XD I never thought of that! It'd probably start out OP, but I imagine it would get annoying fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigONotation View Post
    There always seems to be one obviously broken option in each new book and in this one it's the Hexblade. I've already eliminated it from the realm of possibility at my table. A homebrew-buffed Pact of the Blade already does everything the Hexblade is intended to.
    What homebrew are you using? And what problems exactly do you have with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naerytar View Post
    You say it sarcastically, but I really really hate that term. It's used in competitive games and doesn't translate to a cooperative games like D&D at all.

    Firstly, there isn't a cohesive community or tournament scene in D&D like in online games, tabletop wargames, TCGs, etc. It's a loosely coupled collection of individual gaming groups, each with it's own DM and probably own set of house rules.

    And secondly, metagame doesn't mean "trends" or "current releases and it's consequences". It's literally a different level of game, that you are trying to win, to get a competitive advantage. And if you're trying to win D&D, you're going against the core spirit of the game.

    Keep competitive slang in competitive games, please.
    I'm more of a story trumps rules kind of guy, but I have a friend that's pretty big on mechanics. Because of this, he prefers 3.5 to 5e. Because of this, I'm trying to find something to get him to like 5e. That's the reason for my question and the wording.
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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    The synergy between Reckless Attack and Sneak Attack means you can always get your advantage/sneak attack off every round.

    The synergy between Danger Sense and Evasion means you are better at dex saving throws than either the rogue or the barbarian.

    The synergy between Rage and Uncanny Dodge means you are incredibly tough to kill, dividing the damage from a single attack by 4.

    There are other synergies between the two classes. Rage + Expertise for superior grappling, Fast Movement + Cunning Action for superior mobility, Feral Instinct + Brutal Critical + Assassinate means nastier surprise rounds...
    Holy s***! That's crazy! I would love a gestalt 5e as an assassin zealot!
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    The synergy between Reckless Attack and Sneak Attack means you can always get your advantage/sneak attack off every round.
    Just remember you still have to make the attack with Strength for it to qualify for Reckless Attack, so you're either MAD (Needing Dex, Str, AND Con potentially) or you're going as a Strength based Rogue/Barb with 14 in Dex. Which is a thing. See: Conan the Barbarian
    Last edited by Mikal; 2017-12-07 at 01:59 PM.

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikal View Post
    Just remember you still have to make the attack with Strength for it to qualify for Reckless Attack, so you're either MAD (Needing Dex, Str, AND Con potentially) or you're going as a Strength based Rogue/Barb with 14 in Dex. Which is a thing. See: Conan the Barbarian
    I don't see this as too much of an issue. Every Barbarian Needs Str, Dex, and, Con.

    They also benefit highly from having a decent Wis.

    Welcome to the MAD world of Barbarians.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Quote Originally Posted by GlenSmash! View Post
    I don't see this as too much of an issue. Every Barbarian Needs Str, Dex, and, Con.

    They also benefit highly from having a decent Wis.

    Welcome to the MAD world of Barbarians.
    That's why I love Hexblades.
    Speaking of, I think the following Hexblade combinations will be extremely viable, and can combat Sorcadins on the power curve. Note I'm trying to actually make these Hexblade builds, not just Hexblade dips since those are very well known:

    1) Hexblade 12/Oathbreaker Paladin 8: Your new capstone is Charisma to damage on your chosen weapon 3 times- Hex Warrior, Lifedrinker, and Aura of Hate. And you get it at 19th level! You can smite all day long with Paladin slots for Paladin smites and Warlock slots with Eldritch Smite, your saving throws are nasty, and you can boss some undead around for fun.

    2) Hexblade 12/College of Swords Bard 8: You gain Second Attack, pseudo-Fighter maneuvers, and a good selection of Bard spells to add to your repertoire while keeping your HD the same. Limited fighting style choices do lock you into TWF or Dueling if you want to make the most of it. Plus an additional 10 ft. of movement whenever you take the Attack Action (regardless if you use a bardic inspiration die)

    3) Hexblade 12/Battlemaster 8: Similar to the above, except you trade in Bard spellcasting and better DCs on your maneuvers for more maneuvers per day with better synergy (short rest refresh), more HP, Action Surge, and free rein on fighting styles, and an additional Feat/ASI. You can mitigate the lower DCs by using maneuvers that don't require them often or at all.

    and what is slowly becoming my personal favorite idea (though have to see it in action...)
    4) Hexblade 12/Battlemaster 4/College of Swords 4: You get both types of maneuvers (though the Blade's are slightly weaker since you're using d6's instead of 8s)- 5 per long rest, 4 per short, Action Surge, some Bard casting and slightly better HP. You also gain two fighting styles, giving you some versatility. You lose out on class-based Second Attack, so you have to keep Thirsting Blade as well as the extra movement when you attack.

    Edit: Additional Bonus- Blade Flourish and Maneuvers stack! You can do one of each per turn, so you can really pile it on. Just a few examples I can think of...
    Precision Attack plus Defensive Flourish for Offense (attack AND damage) and Defensive (AC) buffs
    Pushing Attack while also using Pushing Flourish to move them to a spot you want that can easily force them to Dash to get back into range for melee against others
    Slashing Flourish plus Sweeping Attack to attack someone within 5 feet of you for 1d8+1d6 damage in addition to your regular attack
    While the last option is kind of weak, the others do work well.

    Unfortunately they don't mix with attack cantrips, else Slashing+Sweeping would be great with Green Flame Blade, and you could Riposte+Pushing Attack or even Riposte+Pushing+Booming Blade

    ...Who would have thought the true weaponmaster would be a Charisma SAD gish? You can use this with GWM. You can use it with TWF. You can even use it equally in ranged and melee attack (archery fighting style and duelist) with your pact weapon being the ranged option because Blade Flourish doesn't require melee.

    I..I think I need to write a guide.
    Last edited by Mikal; 2017-12-07 at 03:04 PM.

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikal View Post
    Just remember you still have to make the attack with Strength for it to qualify for Reckless Attack, so you're either MAD (Needing Dex, Str, AND Con potentially) or you're going as a Strength based Rogue/Barb with 14 in Dex. Which is a thing. See: Conan the Barbarian
    27 point buy: 15, 15, 15, 8, 8, 8

    Loads of fun, and meets the MC requirements.

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikal View Post
    That's why I love Hexblades.

    ...


    ...Who would have thought the true weaponmaster would be a Charisma SAD gish? You can use this with GWM. You can use it with TWF. You can even use it equally in ranged and melee attack (archery fighting style and duelist) with your pact weapon being the ranged option because Blade Flourish doesn't require melee.
    Check this out:
    Eldritch Knight 7 / Hexblade 3
    https://pastebin.com/sHPLa1GT

    I wanted to mess around with Hexblade as an alternate character for a campaign I'm playing, and this is what I came up with. The goal was to use War Magic to combine Eldritch Blast and a Heavy Crossbow. Point buy, very SAD, only needs Dex for multi-classing and a bit more AC. Elven Accuracy is insane if your party can proc advantage somehow.

    Hexblade is fun times.

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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Hexblade isn't broken, but it is even more front loaded than other warlocks and bladelocks all cry looking at Hexblade. You can't SS or Polearm Master or GWM with it unless you go Blade pact. Problem, yes. Broken, no.

    My personal homebrew fix is: take Hex Warrior, and give it to all bladelocks. It now requires a three-level investment for dips, fixes the other lock patrons for Blade, and its power level is now much closer to other patrons.

    It's either that, or make it a blade-only invocation. The problem with that is it's another invocation tax for Blade, and bladelocks already suffer under suck taxes. There's the argument that straight up giving it to bladelocks flips the bird at the other pacts, but I disagree, because the other pacts have straight up more flexibility in their builds.
    Last edited by Mjolnirbear; 2017-12-09 at 03:35 AM.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    The synergy between Reckless Attack and Sneak Attack means you can always get your advantage/sneak attack off every round.
    ...and leads to the highly amusing image of the roguebarian brandishing his dagger in two hands like a greatsword, charging forth, and wildly plunging it into his opponent while bellowing "I'M SNEAK ATTACKING YOU! RRRRAAAAAAAGGGGH!"

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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: What are the current meta's in the game with XGtE out now?

    I think that'd be enough to disorient the opponent enough to allow a sneak attack. Good show!

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