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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    None of that is required to write a story. I've been writing stories since I was about 6. (And of course, the stuff in 4th grade that my mom still has is obviously stuff written by someone in 4th grade). You can learn about writing by taking classes, doing your own research, and writing. Fan fic is something I've done for years, and the nice thing about the internet is the feedback you can get on what's good, bad, and indifferent.
    No credentials needed. Experience? Never hurts.
    A writer writes.
    Never said you need it to write a story. Anyone can write a story, that's why it's a beautiful thing. However, I would bet you won't say your stories at age 6 are spectacular or compelling. But if Unoriginal was, for example, a drama teacher or a published author, I would respect his ethos more substantially, and I'd be interested in his technical understanding of "internal conflict" and why it isn't necessary.

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    Never said you need it to write a story. Anyone can write a story, that's why it's a beautiful thing. However, I would bet you won't say your stories at age 6 are spectacular or compelling.
    This would be true. :)
    But if Unoriginal was, for example, a drama teacher or a published author, I would respect his ethos more substantially, and I'd be interested in his technical understanding of "internal conflict" and why it isn't necessary.
    The internal conflict element of a story is one option for creating conflict. Some stories do just fine with the bulk of the conflict being external.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) or so I am told ... by 2D8HP

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    d6 Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    How I build a character.

    Roll dice
    Assign to proper places. If you want a real challenge roll all 6 in order then run what comes up.
    Now pick race

    Once I have that figure out alignment. This is a must for me. Chaotic is easier than lawful for me.

    Take feats and skills I think will be needed. Hint I always miss something.

    Then let the personality come in game play. Start 1st if possible.

    If it is not optimal continue playing
    9 wisdom true neutral cleric you know you want me in your adventuring party


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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    Unoriginal, if you don't mind me asking, may I know your credentials in terms of story writing, literary works, or at the very least, units of drama in college?
    Define "credentials". If you're talking about sort-of-academic-related ones, I've written a story and analysis on the genres of mystery novels as my maturity work for my high school graduation, and I've studied English and Old French literature (including theatrical plays) for years at my university.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    May I also know your personal opinion on "dramatic" stories?
    Depends what you mean by "'dramatic' stories".

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    When you said this:



    In response to the need for internal conflict, it set off a few red flags in my head.
    Why? Plenty of characters are considering compelling without having internal conflict. The Dark Knight's Joker has no internal conflict, yet he's an oft-praised part of the movie. Sherlock Holmes in "The Hound of the Baskerville" has no internal conflict, aside from maybe regretting to put his client in danger in order to solve the mystery, and the same can be said of Watson in the same story, but they come off as interesting and fun to read.

    The same way that if I create an hobgoblin captain, I don't need to give them a tragic past or make them conflicted about his gruesome job to make them a character the players will enjoy encountering.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    I won't debate with you how to create a compelling character.
    As you wish.

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    The Dark Knight's Joker isn't a character though, he's a force of nature. He represents the chaos of unpredictability.

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast
    The internal conflict element of a story is one option for creating conflict. Some stories do just fine with the bulk of the conflict being external.
    Yes, some stories are driven wholly by external conflict. Cherry picking only the good ones, can you tell me their names and why they are good or compelling?

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    A character needs a personality, some kind of goal, and to interact with the world and the story.
    This.

    This is what drives my dudes.

    I start with an aspiration, a goal, an thing that the character wants to get done.

    Then, I work backwards and try to figure out who would want to do such a thing, and why. But if I can't think of a good backstory, that's fine. My dude can be just an average joe with an impossible dream, that he's going to make happen anyway.

    I don't start with a backstory. Some people do, and that's fine if it works, but for me a backstory is basically dead weight.

    So, @OP, try this way: start with a reason for action, and let the rest follow.

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    Define "credentials". If you're talking about sort-of-academic-related ones, I've written a story and analysis on the genres of mystery novels as my maturity work for my high school graduation, and I've studied English and Old French literature (including theatrical plays) for years at my university.



    Depends what you mean by "'dramatic' stories".



    Why? Plenty of characters are considering compelling without having internal conflict. The Dark Knight's Joker has no internal conflict, yet he's an oft-praised part of the movie. Sherlock Holmes in "The Hound of the Baskerville" has no internal conflict, aside from maybe regretting to put his client in danger in order to solve the mystery, and the same can be said of Watson in the same story, but they come off as interesting and fun to read.

    The same way that if I create an hobgoblin captain, I don't need to give them a tragic past or make them conflicted about his gruesome job to make them a character the players will enjoy encountering.



    As you wish.
    Just points of clarification, not contention, in response to your questions.

    Credentials: a thing that validates your expertise in the area.

    Dramatic stories: a story that follows Drama Theory.

    As for my personal opinion on the written Sherlock Holmes, it was honestly boring, especially the Hounds of Baskerville. I get it was a smash when print was relatively new and he opened up an entirely new line of forensics in real life, but I just did not enjoy the story.
    Last edited by LeonBH; 2017-12-06 at 12:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    I'm going to speak against the crowd here, who-- as usual-- have sized the opportunity to decry anything that smacks of optimization or mechanics. It doesn't matter where you start building a character. Sometimes you start with a personality, sometimes with a mechanic, whatever-- you'll wind up in the same place with the same level of detail either way.

    If you're bored with 5e mechanics, that's probably because 5e mechanics are fairly flat-- there's not a lot of depth to the interactions, but they're important enough that they WILL have a big impact on things. Taking a break or DMing might help. So might trying a different system. Particularly if you're a person who enjoys the crunch side of things-- check out something the pulls away from the D&D paradigm. Fate, something World of Darkness-, Mutants and Masterminds, some wonky-but-acclaimed indie game...
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    One of my personal favorite methods is to randomly generate then just go with it.
    I like to use some online tools (such as "who the F is my D&D character") to start overarching or broad themes. Once I've generated 3 to 5 I find genuinely interesting, I move on to (IMO, one of the greatest published WotC books) the 3.5 Hero Builder's Guidebook. In there, I will use the wealth of tables to randomly generate everything about the character. From home climate to town size to family and personal political affiliations, it has amazing starting points to help fill out the "extra bits".

    Once all that is done, I'm always left with a compelling character. The rest is filling out numbers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    I like that you can predict the future. Why, you must be some sort of wizard.

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    When I make a character's personality, I try to figure out the ways in which the character thinks differently than I would. If I can play the characters personality without stretching and interpreting things I don't really 'get' then their personality is just going to turn into my personality after I play them for a few sessions. A few examples I've played:

    A Knowledge cleric who believes that deception is the root of all evil. He will never lie or bend the truth for any reason.

    A highly superstitious fighter who believes that the fey are meddling with his life, when things go wrong he needs to find a way to appease them, or turn their attention elsewhere.

    A nobleman who considers it his burden to change the fate of the world. Everything he does is the duty he owes the common people to protect them, even when they're too ignorant to understand and need to be coerced into his plans.

    These are slightly extreme examples, but you can do this in more subtle ways as well. (Though it's easier to lose the character that way) The point is to pick some traits that don't make sense to you or don't mesh well with your personality so that you have to be constantly thinking to play your character true to themselves.
    Last edited by CantigThimble; 2017-12-06 at 12:50 PM.

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    Credentials: a thing that validates your expertise in the area.
    If you don't mind my asking, what's the goal of validating credentials?

    Are there actually people who have a Masters Degree in Dungeoning?

    Or is it a rhetorical intimidation tactic?

    Or something else?

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    I'm going to speak against the crowd here, who-- as usual-- have sized the opportunity to decry anything that smacks of optimization or mechanics. It doesn't matter where you start building a character. Sometimes you start with a personality, sometimes with a mechanic, whatever-- you'll wind up in the same place with the same level of detail either way.

    If you're bored with 5e mechanics, that's probably because 5e mechanics are fairly flat-- there's not a lot of depth to the interactions, but they're important enough that they WILL have a big impact on things. Taking a break or DMing might help. So might trying a different system. Particularly if you're a person who enjoys the crunch side of things-- check out something the pulls away from the D&D paradigm. Fate, something World of Darkness-, Mutants and Masterminds, some wonky-but-acclaimed indie game...
    most of us haven't mentioned optimization at all though, are you actually reading the responses? we're just giving notes on what the OP requested - how to build a character beyond the optimization.

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post

    Or is it a rhetorical intimidation tactic?
    Judging from how it's being used here, I'd say this is what is happening, intentional or not, given that the OP is making an appeal for advice, which can largely be a subjective topic. Asking for credentials is a backhanded way of asking, "how dare you offer a different opinion, if you aren't as educated as me?"

    To the OP:

    Honestly, sometimes the best thing to do when you're getting burned out is to step away and do something different. Maybe that means being a DM for a while (as others have said), maybe it means trying a different sort of game (as it has also been pointed out). I don't know that creating a character with a different method will "fix" it, but it might be the way to offer insight into a different aspect of the game, and that might be enough to renew interest.

    It could also just be a case of maybe it's time to put the 5e books down, and consume media in various forms for a recharge. I've found that sometimes that's enough to re-spark my interest, trying to replicate a type of character I saw, or a play a concept that seemed interesting.

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    If you don't mind my asking, what's the goal of validating credentials?

    Are there actually people who have a Masters Degree in Dungeoning?

    Or is it a rhetorical intimidation tactic?

    Or something else?
    Not credentials in being a DM or player (though if you are a live streamer with a sizable fan base, I'd say you have credentials). Credentials as it involves published works or the like involving narratives. Not necessarily academic works.

    I asked because I was curious, that's it. It struck me that if Unoriginal was an authority on the area, I should update my belief system. For example, can he concretely demonstrate his position? If yes, I'd be very interested in learning his ideas for my own growth.

    Otherwise, I wouldn't have been sure of his credibility. Creating compelling characters isn't just a thing you accidentally stumble upon, after all. People study that stuff. It takes time and careful thought.

    The question was triggered by his first statement when he said internal conflict was not required, which contradicts common characterization techniques as it applies to novelists (not D&D players). I was very much willing to listen to him, not debate with him, if he was experienced in the field.

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    Yes, some stories are driven wholly by external conflict. Cherry picking only the good ones, can you tell me their names and why they are good or compelling?
    Ever heard of Grimm's fairy tales?
    Ever read The Hobbit? The choices Bilbo faces are reactions to external tension/conflict once he decides to take that big leap and have an adventure.
    And to be clear, mostly by external conflict is not "wholly" by external conflict.
    I do not agree with your attempt to presume an either or condition.
    In a great many stories, the matter of overcoming fear is a staple, in particular when dealing with the fantastic, or in the swords and sorcery genre.
    As John Wayne is oft quoted (or misquoted) ... "Courage is being afraid but saddling up anyway."
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2017-12-06 at 01:22 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) or so I am told ... by 2D8HP

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Ever heard of Grimm's fairy tales?
    Ever read The Hobbit? The choices Bilbo faces are reactions to external tension/conflict once he decides to take that big leap and have an adventure.
    And to be clear, mostly by external conflict is not "wholly" by external conflict.
    I do not agree with your attempt to presume an either or condition.
    Why would you say those stories are good or compelling? I don't find Grimm's Fairytales compelling at all (but they are a good base for other stories, being so well known).

    And I'm sorry, if you're saying internal conflict is necessary, then we're on the same page. I'm defending the position that internal conflict is necessary. Are you saying the same thing?

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    You don't want to ignore characterization completely, to be sure, but I think the distinction is in what primarily drives the plot. In something like Hamlet, the main drivers are internal, with external events being used mainly to set emotions in motion. By contrast, something like The Odyssey, the focus is on external events, with the inner conflicts largely serving to spice up and flesh out the external stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    I don't find Grimm's Fairytales compelling
    I am sorry to hear that. Tastes differ.
    And I'm sorry, if you're saying internal conflict is necessary, then we're on the same page. I'm defending the position that internal conflict is necessary. Are you saying the same thing?
    It isn't an either-or proposition. You can have both with a significant weighting one way or the other. (Or even a 50-50 type of balance).
    What now appears to be happening is that you want to play a game of "gotcha."
    I thank you for your time, and your thoughts on this part of the discussion, but this particular sub-game I have no time for, nor interest in. Perhaps one of the other does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) or so I am told ... by 2D8HP

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Huh, I honestly don't understand where that reply came from. I said at the beginning that you want to create a character with a vulnerability. The point was to generate internal conflict which motivates your character and acts as a lens to see the world through.

    I was disputed by Unoriginal, who said neither vulnerability nor internal conflict were necessary for a character. When you jumped in, Korvin, you said not all stories are driven by internal conflict. I disagreed with Unoriginal but agreed with you, and asked you to expound.

    Now that I'm finding you aren't saying the same thing as Unoriginal, I'm asking you to confirm. I've only ever stated "internal conflict is necessary." Where is the gotcha in asking if we agree or disagree in the first place?

    Edit: At any rate, thank you for your patience in turn. Let us please never have another discussion again. But, I hope you roll 20's consistently in your game.
    Last edited by LeonBH; 2017-12-06 at 01:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by alchahest View Post
    The Dark Knight's Joker isn't a character though, he's a force of nature. He represents the chaos of unpredictability.
    The thing is, both points are wrong. The whole idea behind the Joker in that movie is that he gives the *impression* of being those things, while he is not. It's all smoke ad

    He's not a force of nature. He's just a clever man in a clown disguise who gets away with bold moves because people have given him the means to do so, and so people think he's a force of nature.

    And he doesn't represent chaos or unpredictability. Even the opening scene shows that: he has a well-ordered plan to rob the bank, a plan which requires everyone to act with precision and great timing, to the point that the Joker can afford to play with the man holding him at gunpoint because he knows the bus is going to crash into said man.

    Later on, he walks in the mob boss meeting. Chaotic and crazy, right? No. It's just a show of force, as he has taken precautions to make sure he wasn't going to get killed here. He then make them a proposal that play with what they want (Batman out of their ways) and what they think he wants (money), when in reality it's a trick to get them to give him what he truly want, their manpower and ressources, when at this point he's just a guy who pulled off one clever caper with an handful of goons.

    Then he plays with the police with the mole on the the mob bosses' payroll (making him look omniscient/impossible to stop), kill people to force Batman to reveal himself (a simple plan which play on Batman's predictable response, not on chaos), attack the places people think they should be secure to create a panic (again, yet another plan based on predictable outcomes), and lie to an Harvey Dent who's out of it to make himself look like the chaotic "dog who runs after cars" peopel think he is, which convinces the man when the Joker seemingly put his life on the line (if you look, you can actually see Dent couldn't have shot him given how the Joker was holding the gun). And when he's caught off-guard, he plays it cool to feed the "force of nature" impression and to hide how he got bested.

    It's all smoke and mirrors. As SF Debris said, the Joker had to calculate the length of rope and the timing to make a man fall against the window of the mayor's office when someone looked through it. This is not the action of someone who leaves anything to random chances.


    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    Credentials: a thing that validates your expertise in the area.
    Then I've already told them in my last post.


    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    Dramatic stories: a story that follows Drama Theory.
    Just to be clear, are you talking about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drama_theory


    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    As for my personal opinion on the written Sherlock Holmes, it was honestly boring, especially the Hounds of Baskerville. I get it was a smash when print was relatively new and he opened up an entirely new line of forensics in real life, but I just did not enjoy the story.
    Yes, because enjoying a story or characters is subjective. Which doesn't change that many people do consider it a compelling text, and OP was asking about advice on how to make a character that they would subjectively enjoy.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post

    I asked because I was curious, that's it. It struck me that if Unoriginal was an authority on the area, I should update my belief system.
    If I said something dumb, me being an authority on the subject wouldn't make it smart. The reverse is true: a well-thought argument coming from someone who is not an authority is no less valuable than the same one coming from an authority.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    For example, can he concretely demonstrate his position?
    Depends what you mean by "demonstrate his position".

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    Creating compelling characters isn't just a thing you accidentally stumble upon, after all.
    Actually, both factual accounts and studies show that yes, it is. Not always, but it does happen.

    For exemple, one of the most popular character in Star Wars, being both beloved by the fans and used a lot by various authors, is Boba Fett. What made Fett be so compelling? Stand around, look cool, pursue the heroes in a way that showed he was good at his job, and deliver a couple of memorable lines.

    And that's it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    People study that stuff.
    Yes, they study it. They study it ex post facto, to try to figure out why X character was compelling, not as a way to create compelling characters.

    Not that it doesn't help to know methods to write a character or to learn how others achieved their work, but it is not like cooking: you don't have a list of ingredients and tasks to follow to make your character ready for consumption


    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    It takes time and careful thought.
    If that was the case, then Jar Jar Binks would have been a more compelling character than Boba Fett


    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    The question was triggered by his first statement when he said internal conflict was not required, which contradicts common characterization techniques as it applies to novelists (not D&D players).
    Because the common characterization techniques are just that: here to create common characterizations. They're what you tell people to help them learn to write until they don't need the help.

    Again, internal conflict can be good for a character, but it's not required. Nor is it required that instances of internal conflict have to be major. The same way that having a tragic backstory can be good for a character, but it's not required either.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    I was very much willing to listen to him, not debate with him, if he was experienced in the field.
    I have some, but I suppose not the kind you seek.

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonBH View Post
    Huh, I honestly don't understand where that reply came from. I said at the beginning that you want to create a character with a vulnerability. The point was to generate internal conflict which motivates your character and acts as a lens to see the world through.
    That's a method. One of a number of choices. I read Unoriginal's point as internal conflict is not being necessary (as in it's not the only way?) but perhaps we read the same thing differently. (??)

    We may be talking past one another a little bit, which happens.

    Best wishes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) or so I am told ... by 2D8HP

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    By contrast, something like The Odyssey, the focus is on external events, with the inner conflicts largely serving to spice up and flesh out the external stuff.
    In the Odyssey, the only major internal conflicts are "do I believe Odysseus is still alive or do I move on?" (for several characters) and "do I kill those people who are not respecting sacred hospitality or not?". Both are resolved pretty quickly

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Unoriginal, that's not the drama theory I meant.

    As for Sherlock Holmes, it was inaccessible. I learned a lot while reading it for sure. In particular, things not to do. But I read it all the same. I actually don't know anyone who enjoyed reading the books, so my sphere may be limited.

    About experts being wrong and rookies being right, yes, it does happen. But in this internet culture, rookies think they're experts at certain things, myself included. When you contradicted something well known to work, I asked for your ethos for my own curiosity.

    But beyond that, I'd like to disengage from this conversation. Several walls of text traded between us will not be enough to discuss characterization.

    ---

    To the OP, I'd like to simply reiterate my answer to your question. Make a vulnerable character. That is not a weak character, but a character with a weakness.

    You've played concepts and builds and now you seem bored by it. Then try something different.

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    As there are many, many arguments in favor of "Make a dude, and then give them stats", I shall endeavor to provide you with the reverse, because if you're used to making stat blocks, you may struggle with this "backstory-first" approach. (For clarity, I endorse either method, but telling our friend to do the wild opposite of what they're used to may not be as helpful as you think).

    So, generate your Gish, or your Snoozelock, or you Peanut Butter & Paladin (Pretend that is a common and popular build name). Then start asking why.
    Why do they have their starting equipment? Where did it come from? did they dredge it up from a battlefield (whose was it before)? Gift from a mentor (who are they, what happened to them)?

    Why is their low stat low (childhood illness for low CON, for example)? Why is their high stat so high (Special training? Diving Boon?)?

    You can explain every number on the character sheet, every decision point, beyond "it was the optimal choice", even if they're all optimal choices. Do this enough, and when you go to play, the character itself is probably going to have some things to say. They might start making sub-optimal choices (because, oh boy, are people just bundles of sub-optimal choices).

    It might help, it might not. I was burned out on DnD for several years because some ****ty people made me hate playing. I only really recovered my joy for the game when I found new people who were just so enthusiastic about it. There's nothing wrong with taking a step back if you need to.

    (Watch Critical Role. It'll probably make you mad at first)

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    jaappleton's Avatar

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Wow.

    Somewhat overwhelmed by the responses.

    I do think someone hit the nail on the head; I optimized the fun out of it.

    And maybe it's simply a lack of inspiration, to some degree. One tactic I used to do was to browse artwork and find something that really jumped out to me.

    There's a lot to digest in this topic. A lot of answers to the same question, a lot of different ways to approach solving this problem.

    I think... I've got an idea.

    Tabaxi Nobleman turned Pirate


    Now, that can be a Rogue, that can be a Bard, that can be a... A Ranger, I suppose, a Paladin if he was the Robin Hood kind of pirate, etc.

    I suppose this is the point where I say, 'How does he pirate?', and that answers the Class question, right?

  27. - Top - End - #57
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    I think... I've got an idea.

    Tabaxi Nobleman turned Pirate


    Now, that can be a Rogue, that can be a Bard, that can be a... A Ranger, I suppose, a Paladin if he was the Robin Hood kind of pirate, etc.

    I suppose this is the point where I say, 'How does he pirate?', and that answers the Class question, right?
    You've got it, yes.
    You have an idea of who he is. Now take that and run with it, flesh it out completely, with personality and goals and fears and beauty marks and warts.
    Then tie his Noble BG into who he is and why he does what he does.
    After all of that, you'll have the Who and the What, and you can decide on a class to get the How.
    But really take some time and figure out who he is and how he would react to different things, and what drives him, and what stops him cold in his tracks. Once that all falls into place, and you have a bromance with him, you won't even care about what class he ends up being. He'll just be fun to play.

    Then you'll actually start role playing (instead of roll playing) and that's where the real joy of this game will blossom if you haven't felt it before.
    (I'm not saying that was true before, but by your problem I suspect it [even if you never realized it], and then you might see a whole new element open up which offers a whole new satisfaction from the game)

    When we say "play a character, not a build" this is what we're saying.
    Make the mechanics almost an afterthought, and your character will be fun regardless.
    And of you can somehow get everyone at the table to play like this, then the games become truly epic!
    Last edited by DivisibleByZero; 2017-12-06 at 02:56 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #58
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    ClericGirl

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    I think... I've got an idea.

    Tabaxi Nobleman turned Pirate


    Now, that can be a Rogue, that can be a Bard, that can be a... A Ranger, I suppose, a Paladin if he was the Robin Hood kind of pirate, etc.

    I suppose this is the point where I say, 'How does he pirate?', and that answers the Class question, right?
    Sounds like a story just waiting to be told. Best of luck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) or so I am told ... by 2D8HP

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Imp

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    You could also just make a "Former Noble Turned Pirate" background and let it do the job.

    A pirate could have their levels be in Sorcerer, Wizard, Barbarian, Monk or any classes. What's important is that you imagine your Tabaxi being someone and doing something, and only after that worry about handling the mechanical side to make those stuff possible.

    In any case, best wishes for this, jaappleton, and if you want to share stories about your Cat O'Nine Tails, I'd be happy to read them.
    Last edited by Unoriginal; 2017-12-06 at 03:02 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Burned out, no characters seem appealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    What do you mean by that? A paladin who doesn't care if a lower class man is abusive with his children, to the point of probably raping his daughter? A paladin who's ok with his acquaintances being homicidal racists if given half a chance? A paladin who's ready to falsify evidences to spare someone he likes a trial they'd likely have won?
    Unoriginal, i think you got the characters mixed up. Atticus was the lawyer and, and the main character’s father, he did none of the things you have stated above. That was Robert Ewell, he is the person who accused Tom Robinson of the crime that he (most likely) did not commit and did the act of domestic violence. Atticus was trying to get a person who committed domestic violence arrested, was actively trying to stop racism, and was certainly not falsifying any evidence. I am referring to To Kill a Mockingbird, and Atticus from that story does not behave like you have described at all. I am very confused by what you have stated, I think you got Atticus mixed up with Robert Ewell. I am talking about this person, not whoever you are describing.



    Back on topic though: Jaapelton, you are in the right line of thinking. I think you understood what we are saying. You created a character’s role play concept than you develop there mechanics, that is a good way to create a character if mechanics have bored you. You are doing great!

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