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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    I don't see why it *wouldn't* be a problem? They still have to obtain and process the materials regardless of how easy it is to transport them back to home base. They can't be using scavenged materials because we know that every building in Boston still has all the stuff in it that it did when the bombs dropped.
    We know they have all the stuff in them that wasn't previously taken, notice all those empty boxes everywhere?
    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    There's quite a leap between "we can make robots who look and act human" and "we can forge people whole from their component elements". If the latter were true synths wouldn't need to have mechanical parts at all.
    I haven't seen anything to indicate that a Gen3 synth has a great variety of non-biological parts. Based on what you see in the assembly procedure, the only bits that aren't biological are those which supply features unavailable to evolution, such as the radio tracker and neural overrides. Basically what you're looking at is a human with a couple of medical devices implanted. I have no trouble believing that with proper genetics, each Gen3 synth could have the physical talents of a world-class athlete, and considering that the Sole Survivor is capable of being just as tough, there's nothing to suggest an alternate conclusion.

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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Which does make DiMA's question about whether or not you're a synth more pointed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    Which does make DiMA's question about whether or not you're a synth more pointed.
    Except synths have deactivation codes, and they don't use one on you while you brutally slaughter the institute. So either you're a synth w/o a deactivation code (which isn't supported by the evidence we have of deactivation codes) or you have one but everyone in the institute would rather die than use it (which doesn't fit with some of their treatment and dislike of the main character), and the dialogue relating to getting installed as director becomes very out of place. Possibly you could have been made in secret by the director with all knowledge of you hidden from the institute, but I fail to understand how his ending dialogue with you would make any sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    Except synths have deactivation codes, and they don't use one on you while you brutally slaughter the institute. So either you're a synth w/o a deactivation code (which isn't supported by the evidence we have of deactivation codes) or you have one but everyone in the institute would rather die than use it (which doesn't fit with some of their treatment and dislike of the main character), and the dialogue relating to getting installed as director becomes very out of place. Possibly you could have been made in secret by the director with all knowledge of you hidden from the institute, but I fail to understand how his ending dialogue with you would make any sense.
    Yeah, the Sole Survivor as Synth narrative is way too implausible and forced. Not that the base storyline is remotely cogent to begin with, but there's too much in the Synth thesis that defies plausibility. I took DiMA's remarks that "you might be a synth" as more philosophical in nature, not an actual suggestion which was meant to be taken seriously as an assertion of fact.

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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Quote Originally Posted by Balmas View Post
    3650 days, not counting leap years, at a rate of 57.6 synths per day, is an army 0f 210,240 synths.
    Assuming the machine cranking the synths out don't need downtime.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    Nicely researched. I'd suggest there may be material issues but with teleportation I can't see that being a big problem (begging the question when they developed that).
    Teleportation tech is weird. If you have that then you will soon have (if not already) the ability to disassemble matter like a disintegration ray, and have the ability to create matter from energy like a replicator. Along with their fast pace synth building, I'm surprised the Institute can lose.
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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    Assuming the machine cranking the synths out don't need downtime.

    Teleportation tech is weird. If you have that then you will soon have (if not already) the ability to disassemble matter like a disintegration ray, and have the ability to create matter from energy like a replicator. Along with their fast pace synth building, I'm surprised the Institute can lose.
    Even considering a lower rate of production (say 50% of that figure, still puts a force a quarter the size of the United States Army's front-line troops in the suburbs of Boston. That would be an absolutely immense occupation force, even for modern-day Boston. Greater Boston has under 5 million people. That's 1 synth for every 50 persons. To put that into perspective, post-war Japan was occupied to a level of 200 to 1. Post-war Germany had a ratio of 80 to 1. Now it's quite reasonable to say that no matter what the condition of the commonwealth might be, it's got to be less than the population of Greater Boston today. This really underscores Balmas' original point: Given the capacity of the Institute to produce manpower, it's really inane as to why they simply can't produce enough Synths to take active control of the surface, not just in the Commonwealth, but likely the entire continent of North America. That 'one per 25 minutes' facility is just one relatively small room. Conduct synth production at industrial scale, and they could easily conquer the surface and re-populate the continent with genetically healthy, docile and obedient humans. Instead, they're doing some kind of Dystopian Doctor Strangelove freak lair.

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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    I want to suggest that the MST3K Mantra be renamed the Bethesda Setting Mantra.
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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Possible only The Director knew the kill code, and when he died...
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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    There's a HUGE difference between having the elements in hand and actually weaving the material into a primordeal soup used in construction of the synths. The only substance we currently know about that has the adaptability that soup they spray on are stem cells, and while I'm sure that Fallout's pre-war Murika would have far fewer qualms about that sort of research than real life does, generating that much volume of stem cells is going to be... very difficult at the least.

    I'd say supply is the chokepoint rather than production capability. Also keep in mind that a Synth needs to eat, sleep, breathe, eliminate... basically all the same needs as people. So there's also the *logistical* issue of needing to supply what amounts to an army on very low absolute numbers of resources. The institute isn't exactly brimming over with hydroponics, after all. I think it would be just a *little* difficult for them to feed a hundred thousand plus soldiers, wouldn't you?

    Honestly, I don't expect them to have more than around ten thousand or so. More than that, and their ability to house and feed them becomes questionable.

    Which is, of course, why the Railroad are a bunch of misguided morons. Every synth they steal and 'reprogram' is one fewer mouth the Institute has to feed but can STILL recall at any time with a simple code transmitted. In effect, the Railroad is doing a far better job of being the Institute's distribution hub than their official one. AND they don't even get paid for it.
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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Like most Bethesda properties the Fallout setting only works if you don't think about it too hard. The settings for 3 and 4 don't even make sense on a basic level and don't hold up to any kind of scrutiny. New Vegas is the only one that's even remotely internally consistent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Like most Bethesda properties the Fallout setting only works if you don't think about it too hard. The settings for 3 and 4 don't even make sense on a basic level and don't hold up to any kind of scrutiny. New Vegas is the only one that's even remotely internally consistent.
    It's almost like they bought a franchise to make an entirely different game

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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Which is, of course, why the Railroad are a bunch of misguided morons. Every synth they steal and 'reprogram' is one fewer mouth the Institute has to feed but can STILL recall at any time with a simple code transmitted.
    While I will fully agree that the Railroad are misguided morons--anybody who believes that wiping a synth's personality and memory is any different to just murdering them qualifies for that description--the Institute are not capable of recalling synths via transmitting a code, simple or otherwise. If they were, they wouldn't need Coursers to go out and track down the rogue synths physically.

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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jackal View Post
    Even considering a lower rate of production (say 50% of that figure, still puts a force a quarter the size of the United States Army's front-line troops in the suburbs of Boston. That would be an absolutely immense occupation force, even for modern-day Boston. Greater Boston has under 5 million people. That's 1 synth for every 50 persons. To put that into perspective, post-war Japan was occupied to a level of 200 to 1. Post-war Germany had a ratio of 80 to 1. Now it's quite reasonable to say that no matter what the condition of the commonwealth might be, it's got to be less than the population of Greater Boston today. This really underscores Balmas' original point: Given the capacity of the Institute to produce manpower, it's really inane as to why they simply can't produce enough Synths to take active control of the surface, not just in the Commonwealth, but likely the entire continent of North America. That 'one per 25 minutes' facility is just one relatively small room. Conduct synth production at industrial scale, and they could easily conquer the surface and re-populate the continent with genetically healthy, docile and obedient humans. Instead, they're doing some kind of Dystopian Doctor Strangelove freak lair.
    You would have to assume that the Institute would even WANT to take over. I get the strong impression that the Institute changes direction every time they change director. Each new director drives the Institute toward what ever personal goal he/she has in mind. The rest of them just plod along doing "science for sciences sake", and dreaming about what they would do if THE were in charge.

    Read enough of those old tapes, and you see several different viewpoints at work in the Institute over the years....some hostile toward the surface, some ambivalent, some completely apathetic. The "Speech" you give, that was crafted by Father, pretty much says that the (current) Institute has no interest in the surface.

    Add to this, the fact that Synths are still pretty much in a Beta phase, and the Institute hasn't really made all that many of them, other than to replace the ones that keep going missing, or are destroyed while on surface "recon"...
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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    While I will fully agree that the Railroad are misguided morons--anybody who believes that wiping a synth's personality and memory is any different to just murdering them qualifies for that description--the Institute are not capable of recalling synths via transmitting a code, simple or otherwise. If they were, they wouldn't need Coursers to go out and track down the rogue synths physically.
    They don't ever need to send a Courser, just broadcast the reset code. The reason they send the Courser is mostly because they want a guaranteed recovery in addition to shutdown. But the fact that every single synth has a 'factory reset' button just means that you've got hundreds, maybe even thousands, of synths around the Commonwealth, 'rescued' by the Railroad, that could at *any* time be approached by a 'normal guy' working for the institute (doesn't even have to be a courser, the Lone Wanderer is able to use the reset code as well if you talk to Mama and give her some jet), and suddenly turn into a murderhobo. These sleeper units are really what is going to make the Institute a problem, more than any mass army lying in wait somewhere.
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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    But that's the point right there--they have to be physically approached by a member of the Institute because the code has to be issued so it's audible to the synth's ears. They can't transmit a simple signal to shut the synths down.

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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    But that's the point right there--they have to be physically approached by a member of the Institute because the code has to be issued so it's audible to the synth's ears. They can't transmit a simple signal to shut the synths down.
    Ever heard of a speaker tower?
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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutazoia View Post
    Add to this, the fact that Synths are still pretty much in a Beta phase, and the Institute hasn't really made all that many of them, other than to replace the ones that keep going missing, or are destroyed while on surface "recon"...
    Hold that thought. Super Mutants are made a'la FEV and don't reproduce. The Institute kidnaps the people to become Super Mutants and replaces them with Synths. At a minimum then there is one Synth per Super Mutant (more in fact).

    There sure are a lot of Super Mutants......
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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Ever heard of a speaker tower?
    But floating radio bots are canonical...

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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Or just broadcast it over the classical radio they're already playing for teleportation.

    edit: Fallout 4: New Vegas Gameplay and Systems It's alpha footage and... wow. I am impressed beyond words.
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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    I'd say supply is the chokepoint rather than production capability. Also keep in mind that a Synth needs to eat, sleep, breathe, eliminate... basically all the same needs as people. So there's also the *logistical* issue of needing to supply what amounts to an army on very low absolute numbers of resources. The institute isn't exactly brimming over with hydroponics, after all. I think it would be just a *little* difficult for them to feed a hundred thousand plus soldiers, wouldn't you?
    Teleportation tech should make resource gathering easier. Copy food matter as a template while it's disassembled and then duplicate it, essentially creating a replicator. The only limitation is energy, though it doesn't seem like they're hurting in that area?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mutazoia View Post
    You would have to assume that the Institute would even WANT to take over. I get the strong impression that the Institute changes direction every time they change director. Each new director drives the Institute toward what ever personal goal he/she has in mind. The rest of them just plod along doing "science for sciences sake", and dreaming about what they would do if THE were in charge.
    It's too bad FO3 already did the "super computer in charge" trope. I feel that it would have fit better for the Institute. Or maybe they could have a synth in charge, changing his face every few decades so that the Institute thinks that its different director. That might be interesting--they're building synths to replace people, but don't know that they have been working for a synth over the decades. Instead of the masters over artificial AI and robotics, they're slaves to them and don't know it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mutazoia View Post
    Add to this, the fact that Synths are still pretty much in a Beta phase, and the Institute hasn't really made all that many of them, other than to replace the ones that keep going missing, or are destroyed while on surface "recon"...
    It be amusing to me if loss of a synth was eventually referred to as a Code 111 in the latter part of the game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    edit: Fallout 4: New Vegas Gameplay and Systems It's alpha footage and... wow. I am impressed beyond words.
    Okay, just the idea of having your perks and skills on one screen you can flip between is awesome. I've always wanted that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    edit: Fallout 4: New Vegas Gameplay and Systems It's alpha footage and... wow. I am impressed beyond words.
    Shut up and take my money!!! Especially if they do all the DLC's.
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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    edit: Fallout 4: New Vegas Gameplay and Systems It's alpha footage and... wow. I am impressed beyond words.
    Remind me why I ever buy games that aren't Fallout?
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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    To have something to do in the gap?
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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutazoia View Post
    You would have to assume that the Institute would even WANT to take over. I get the strong impression that the Institute changes direction every time they change director. Each new director drives the Institute toward what ever personal goal he/she has in mind. The rest of them just plod along doing "science for sciences sake", and dreaming about what they would do if THE were in charge.
    Oh, I'm definitely not attributing motive, rather, I'm using that argument to completely undercut any moral authority the Institute's 'save humanity' BS that they currently trot as justification for amoral Doctor Mengele experimentation.

    Read enough of those old tapes, and you see several different viewpoints at work in the Institute over the years....some hostile toward the surface, some ambivalent, some completely apathetic. The "Speech" you give, that was crafted by Father, pretty much says that the (current) Institute has no interest in the surface.
    If they were simply determined to live apart from the surface, there wouldn't be a problem, but they routinely screw with the surface to serve their own ends.

    Add to this, the fact that Synths are still pretty much in a Beta phase, and the Institute hasn't really made all that many of them, other than to replace the ones that keep going missing, or are destroyed while on surface "recon"...
    This may be a good point, though they're evidently effective enough to use on regular combat missions. So what's the proving process like? At what point is that experimental weapon good enough to use to serve the purpose of all weapons, namely to bring victory, and with it, peace?

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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    Or just broadcast it over the classical radio they're already playing for teleportation.

    edit: Fallout 4: New Vegas Gameplay and Systems It's alpha footage and... wow. I am impressed beyond words.
    I'm optimistic, but there's not enough here to say I'm impressed. We'll see what kind of progress they make or if it becomes just another dead project.

    I'm honestly not sure that Fallout NV really needs to be ported. Fallout 4 isn't all that more advanced than a modded New Vegas already.

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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I'm optimistic, but there's not enough here to say I'm impressed. We'll see what kind of progress they make or if it becomes just another dead project.

    I'm honestly not sure that Fallout NV really needs to be ported. Fallout 4 isn't all that more advanced than a modded New Vegas already.
    I would strongly disagree, actually.

    Fallout: New Vegas is 32 bit and is not Large Address Aware. Also, the single most commonly downloaded mod for F:NV is NVAC (New Vegas Anti Crash), which tells you something about the stability of that particular engine.
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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    Yeah stabilizing New Vegas is a never ending battle. I love the game, but the engine crashes madly.
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    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    FO4 was a meh-ish first-person shooter with a painfully horrible excuse of a plotline to string your combat encounters together.

    F:NV was an immersive RPG with a painfully badly outdated combat engine.

    So take the awesome RPG storyline of NV and put it in the smooth FO4's combat engine, and you have a game that might actually be worth playing.
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    May 2007

    Default Re: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

    I've never had issues with NV crashing. Guess I'm just lucky on that front. For combat, I don't really think Fallout 4 was that much better than NV. It's all basically shooting oversized bullet sponge enemies while they stand completely still and don't react.

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