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2017-12-07, 05:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
I don't think so, the joke was about on-site child care whoch means that baby's parent(s) aren't available to look after it. Jenny and Hank areprobably here for the same reason the window showing the rain is here : visually reminding her that the Thieves' Guild and the Church of Loki are partners hence why Haley knows this.
Edit: And showing them in the new art style a bit.Last edited by Fyraltari; 2017-12-07 at 05:57 AM.
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2017-12-07, 06:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
Delusional? She states facts.
He did, in fact, cast her aside after he had his fun, and left her to raise the child he had impregnated her with alone.
That's what he did, and you cannot argue it away, much as you'd like to.
Her judgement of him is therefore totally justified. Remember that this is everything she knows about him, that he is the sort of man who would have unprotected sex with a woman and then tell her to go back to her husband, knowing full well that the baby won't have the husband's skin colour, even.
Her assuming that he would therefore willingly become a vampire is a bit exaggerated, sure, but she's understandably bitter about the whole thing.
Her assumption that he would treat other women the same as he treated her is, however, quite justified.
Let's be realistic, she has no proof at all that his talk of duty and **** wasn't just a lame excuse on his side for not taking responsibility.
Edit: And the assumption that Hilgya hates little Kudzu is utterly idiotic. Why would she be carrying around a child she hates? Especially those of you who believe she is completely evil should have realized that yes, babies can be killed, ... assuming you live in a country with a misogynist government that won't let you have an abortion. An abortion being the preferable option that she would have taken FIRST if she didn't want a child by Durkon.
And even if you, more reasonably, assume that she would not kill a baby: it was stated that the Church of Loki does provide (bad) childcare, and that would have been the perfect way to rid herself of him without even committing a crime.Last edited by Themrys; 2017-12-07 at 06:53 AM.
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2017-12-07, 06:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
Wow, Hilgaya totally changed her personality. She's a complete bitch now. Plus she lacks empathy, the ability to put herself in other people's shoes. She can't understand why Durkon left her even though it was blatantly obvious. She might not agree with honor culture but damn she was raised in it and should at the very least understand it, if only to corrupt more dwarves. She's a cleric of Loki the Deceiver and she calls him unscrupulous. She also can't figure out that the other dwarf chick might not be Durkon's girlfriend. Projecting her own emotions on other people all over the place.
She's also willing to endanger the life of her child just so she can satisfy her emotional needs. Wow, Hilgaya is a real piece of work. What a terrible person. I would say I'm looking forward to her coming to a bad end, but then Durkon's child would be orphaned, and having a single mother is bad enough already for kids. Well, I say it's about time we had an actual evil cleric instead of fun-n-games Malack. Let's get some capital E evil in the strip. Too many evil characters are nice people, Redcloak with his 'evil but for a good cause' crap, Tarquin with his 'affably evil' and Belkar with his 'funny sociopath' act.How to turn off these annoying .sigs:
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2017-12-07, 07:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
Interesting take.
I think she's more chaotic than evil. Maybe "chaotic angry" for pseudo-alignment.
Also, about Loki's clerics turning undead, and Loki's scriptures addressing undead in unfavorable terms:
His daughter Hel seems to be good with undead. Loki and Hel seem to have a bad relationship.
Is this Loki/Hel tension an allusion to rebellious children and the whole "Goth" thing that an unfortunate number of teenagers went through a few decades ago (and I guess some still do?) Rich alluded to that as a phase Haley went through as a teen in an early strip regarding the rebellious goblin teenagers.
@Ruck: my estimation on "why Kudzu" is informed by the homages paid by comic artists to one another. (Scott Kurtz was (for example) very fond of Berk Breathed's Bloom County strip, and wrote up some blog posts about that). I am pretty sure that's the way to bet, though the "grows fast as a weed" is a reference to how quick kids grow, or certainly was one when I was in my youth. Perhaps it's a double reference.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2017-12-07 at 07:15 AM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
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2017-12-07, 07:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
Or maybe it's
"All clerics of Loki may (rather than must) choose the Turn Undead option rather than Rebuke Undead, when taking their first level of Cleric, regardless of alignment"
In general, this does support the notion that Hilgya, Loki, or both are Evil, and that there is a special exception to the standard rules on Turn/Rebuke, here.
Because, if both were some kind of Neutral, there would be no need to specify that Loki has a special "eww gross" attitude to undead.Last edited by hamishspence; 2017-12-07 at 07:15 AM.
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2017-12-07, 07:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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2017-12-07, 07:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
Wow. Hilgya is deeply stupid, or possibly just a total narcissist. No wonder she hung out with Nale.
(I know this isn't news, but I'd forgotten how bad she was)
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2017-12-07, 07:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
I'm confused by the notion that "being a jerk" is capital-E Evil, but "planning slaughter of genocidal proportions while serving tea to his guests" is not worthy of capitalization.
Anyway, I don't think what we see of Hilgya in this strip is inconsistent with what we had already seen of her. We didn't see much, and what we saw could be interpreted in different ways.
Missing in your analysis: the fact that Hilgya hid potentially very important information from Durkon (namely, that she was married) when she hit on him. Of course many people, particularly Lawful dwarves, would consider it a deal-breaker. Spinning Durkon's reaction as "he tossed her aside after he had his fun" is delusional, and completely in line with Hilgya's characterization.Last edited by hroşila; 2017-12-07 at 07:39 AM.
ungelic is us
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2017-12-07, 07:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
As a new dad I compleatly relate to "Now come on. if we're going, lets go. I just fed him and I want to get this done before he get hungry again." Just change the Pronoun and it could be me with my daughter on a game day.
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2017-12-07, 07:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
From the forum rules :
Excessive Use of Profanity
Most profanity is censored by our filter, though a few mild terms (generally those that appear in the comic) and words that have both a benign meaning and a profane or offensive one, are not.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2017-12-07, 07:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
Anyway, I don't think what we see of Hilgya in this strip is inconsistent with what we had already seen of her.
lets misogynist slurs stand? Where is the logic there?How to turn off these annoying .sigs:
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2017-12-07, 08:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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2017-12-07, 08:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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2017-12-07, 08:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
I find this strip hilarious, from Hilgya portraying Durkon as some sorf of a Casanova, to the little Kudzu turning undead (and Belkar is always funny).
Yes, Hilgya seems a bit more bitter than the last time, where she made her debut with the: "Say hello to the nice guys" and "I'm sorry about this".
One could argue that no one tried to say her what to do, last time, as Roy has tried to do now
But really someone did say her what to do: Durkon. And when Durkon said her what to do, she didn't reply flipping him, but running away crying.
I guess raising a child on her own and at the same time leveling up turning undead made her develop a stronger personality.Last edited by Dr.Zero; 2017-12-07 at 08:12 AM.
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2017-12-07, 08:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
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2017-12-07, 08:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
I finally know the name of the plant my mother calls 'The Pod People Plant'. Those strange southerners just let the things take over
Good thing i am back in the chilly embrace of the north
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2017-12-07, 08:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
At first I thought 'wow Hilgya's gotten unlikeably bitter, Roy's gonna take her to task if she goes on like that', but then I thought 'she's had over a year of stewing on this. She's had a year to skew the facts, sharpen the axe, cast blame onto the absent father. And even if her view of Durkon doesn't add up with the information she had at the time, she wouldn't be the first person to misread into an argument and pick out the info which supports her demonisation while forgetting or ignoring the info which runs against that.'
Still think Roy's gonna take her to task, though.
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2017-12-07, 08:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
It does not appear in the comic with a benign meaning, though, it appears there as misogynist slur. And its only de-facto use is as misogynist slur. People on the forums don't talk about female dogs that often.
And while I am too lazy to search for it, I do think the word sh*t appears in the comic, too, (as I would be surprised if someone managed to write an entire webcomic without it) and it is really not offensive to anyone.Last edited by Themrys; 2017-12-07 at 08:36 AM.
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2017-12-07, 08:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2017-12-07, 08:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
So what? It appears in the comic so censoring it in the forum would not make sense. It has a benign meaning so censoring it could theoritically hinder polite discussion.
I'm against censoring swear words except in places when you expect to find children but these rules seem coherent and reasonnable to me.
Best I could find was "shi-" moments before Yokyok death.
People tend to go for "crap" or stunned silence in this comic.
EDIT: Oh and it is also used against males in the comic so the mysoginistic part of "it appears there as misogynist slur" is debatable.Last edited by Fyraltari; 2017-12-07 at 08:41 AM.
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2017-12-07, 08:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
If you don't want to talk about child abuse, then you shouldn't have brought up such a ridiculous idea, because it is clearly utterly nonsensical and you know it. If you can only defend your speculations by talking about things you don't want to talk about then you should not have brought it up, plain and simple.
Trying to pretend that I am the unreasonable one here will not help you, it is plain for all to see that all those nonsensical attempts to revile Hilgya are motivated by deepseated misogyny.
Edit: And it shows how very misogynist many people here are that you are so very, very keen and willing to jump to assumptions of child abuse when a high-level cleric in a D&D based comic says that her child is safest if staying with her, but happily, willingly, and passionately deny that forcing a woman into marriage means to want her raped, and that telling a woman to return to a forced marriage is telling her to get raped again and again, and again.
You apply real world logics when it suits you (i.e. when a high level cleric wants to keep her child with her rather than leaving it among strangers) but ferociously deny them when they would make your beloved Durkon look bad.
You willingly, happily believe that Hilgya, a woman who FAILED to murder ONE husband she was FORCED to marry, would mistreat her child, when Tarquin, a multiple murderer of wives he himself had chosen, is at the very least implied to not have mistreated his son (beyond raising him to be evil).
Your misogyny is showing.Last edited by Themrys; 2017-12-07 at 08:52 AM.
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2017-12-07, 08:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
For Erfworld, at least, The Giant pointed out that yes, a word appears in that comic (hosted here) that isn't allowed on the forum, and no, it being filtered on the forum, is not going to change.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...6&postcount=13
Presumably, the same would apply to the very occasional OOTS swear that would be filtered.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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2017-12-07, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
Not going to argue about the automatic censorship, only pointing out that the "benign" meaning is not limited to the female dogs, but it includes slang where "son of a bitch" is used as equivalent of "crazily heroic/badass". As "The son of a bitch did it!" (for example, in Independence Day, when the drunk dude destroys one of the motherships, as far as I can remember about the english version).
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2017-12-07, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
I guess she'd fit in at the GiTP forum, would she not?
Hilgya is deeply stupid
or possibly just a total narcissist. No wonder she hung out with Nale.
Maybe we can allow for this revolutionary concept: she is drawn in two dimensions, but Rich has put some thought into her situation and character, and she's a bit more three dimensional than is being allowed for so far during the discussions centered on her return to the screen.
If her general outlook on life is self centered and a bit chaotic, and maybe even impulsive, then her various reactions to how life's consequences turn out seem to be consistent.
As to her choice to keep Kudzu with her: Hilgya isn't the first woman ever to tell people "don't tell me how to take care of my child." Whether her judgment is sound or not is a different matter, but the profound connection between mother and child could easily inform her very protective point of view. (Unlike RL mothers, she has magical spells to assist her in protecting her child). Just because she's mad at Durkon does not mean that she takes it out on her child.
Tone sometimes comes across, even in text based discourse. Belligerent tone does not invite people to engage. (I have had that pointed out to me a few times on the 5e forum when my tone carried a hard edge).
... it is plain for all to see that all those nonsensical attempts to revile Hilgya are motivated by deepseated misogyny.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2017-12-07 at 09:02 AM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2017-12-07, 08:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
Why do people keep saying she could have found a wizard to cast sending and contact him?
Isn't that a clerical spell?
Durkon had it (Elan contacting Julio)
The Cleric of Loki had it (Contacting Durkon when the party was split)
So Hilga could have done it if she wanted to. Durkon wasn't under the Cloister spell.
Also, I'm guessing that the panel with the baby in the thieves guild is a flashback or something? It seems like it's being implied that's something Haley saw in her past. So I doubt that's Belkar junior.
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2017-12-07, 08:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
Why should a man be scorned if, finding himself in prison, he tries to get out and go home? Or if, when he cannot do so, he thinks and talks about other topics than jailers and prison-walls?
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2017-12-07, 08:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
Hilgya's understanding of other people's motivations is as keen as ever, I see.
I wonder how long it took her to decide what Durkon had said to her was just an excuse.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2017-12-07, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2017-12-07, 09:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
Looking at this strictly in terms of what it says about Hilgya without any real-world assumptions, it seems like, here and with her forced marriage to Ivan, she starts off with legitimate reasons to be upset (in the last discussion thread someone summed up the Durkon/Hilgya confrontation as "it looks like he's about to object to her trying to murder Ivan, but instead he responds to Hilgya's Chaotic Crazy with Lawful Crazy," which sounds about right to me), but instead of sitting down and figuring out what those reasons to be upset are and who it makes sense to blame, she decides the person in closest proximity is gratuitously evil and stops thinking about it.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2017-12-07, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2017-12-07 at 09:29 AM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society