The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    You keep presenting this as if it helped your position. it does not. Of course it is safer to NOT take the baby to work in your car. People that do it, do it because they have no other choice. Hilgya DOES have a choice. No-one is forcing her to take her baby into battle.
    Please do not confuse me with Hilgya. You are making yet another assumption.
    To be clear: I am trying to keep an open mind as regards Hilgya, rather than leaping to the conclusions that a great many of the other posters are leaping to, or pigeonholing her. As I noted in another post, she is drawn in two dimensions but I think that Rich has brought her back as a three dimensional character. His story telling has improved quite a bit since we last had Hilgya on screen.

    We have this immense gap of understanding: between the time she and Durkon walked in opposite directions and her arrival via "turn undead" and "help murder Durkon Thundershield" there's been about a year and a half of in world time for her to
    (1) Keep Adventuring
    (2) Probably gain a few levels
    (3) Carry to term and then give birth to a Baby
    (4) Return (via what route/means?) to the Dwarven homelands that she'd fled years before, and arrive in Firmament "in the nick of time" to meet up with OoTS.

    We don't actually know what she has faced, nor what she has done, since the ultimately sad carnal encounter with Durkon.
    Where you sit determines what you see.
    I am trying to understand this from inside the boots of Hilgya. Not that easy, given how little we have to work with.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2017-12-07 at 03:46 PM.
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    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
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  2. - Top - End - #242
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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Please do not confuse me with Hilgya. You are making yet another assumption.
    To b clear: I am trying to keep an open mind, as regards Hilgya, rather than leaping to the conclusions that a great many of the other posters are leaping to. We have this immense gap of understanding: between she and Durkon walking in opposite directions, and her arrival via "turn undead" and "help murder Durkon Thundershield" there's been about a year and a half of in world time for her to
    Keep Adventuring
    Probably gain a few levels
    Have a Baby
    Return (via what route/means?) to the Dwarven homelands that she'd fled years before, and arrive in Firmament "in the nick of time" to meet up with OoTS.

    We don't actually know what she has faced, nor what she has done, since the ultimately sad carnal encounter with Durkon.
    Where you sit determines what you see. I am trying to understand this from inside the boots of Hilgya. Not that easy, given how little we have to work with.
    None of which is germane to the point, which was
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    You know what is even safer? NOT going into battle with Kudzu. She is voluntarily choosing to go hunt vampires with a baby strapped to her front. I don't care how much she can protect the kid, she could choose NOT to walk towards battle.
    None of those things in any way change that it is less safe to take Kudzu into battle than it is to say "I'd love to help, but I have a baby, and I would rather not put him in further danger".

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Of course it is safer to NOT take the baby to work in your car. People that do it, do it because they have no other choice. Hilgya DOES have a choice. No-one is forcing her to take her baby into battle.
    Quite the opposite, in fact: She outright refused to leave Kudzu out of harm's way. Does she think "a bunch of Thor flunkies" are a bigger threat to Kudzu than a bunch of vampires, or is she not trusting anyone but herself to protect him?

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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    None of those things in any way change that it is less safe to take Kudzu into battle than it is to say "I'd love to help, but I have a baby, and I would rather not put him in further danger".
    Once again, please to not confuse me, a person, with Hilgya, a comic strip character. As above, my take is that Minrah is talking sense, and so is Roy. But this is a comic ...

    Also, stay home tomorrow. It's safer not to drive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) ... 2D8HP told me so
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze
    Self-deception tends to have a low target number

  5. - Top - End - #245
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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranadin View Post
    A theory: what if Hilgya's husband be one of Count Durkula's lackeys now?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ornithologist View Post
    My Theory I know will never happen, but I really want it to so bad:

    It would be really funny, awkward even, if after having run away from him Ivan decided to go join a religion and changed his name to Gontor.

    Points in favor: We never learned Ivan's last name. interesting coincidence

    Points against: Everything else, including common sense.

    I'm giving it a 20% chance of happening.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Quite the opposite, in fact: She outright refused to leave Kudzu out of harm's way. Does she think "a bunch of Thor flunkies" are a bigger threat to Kudzu than a bunch of vampires, or is she not trusting anyone but herself to protect him?
    I give up. Is this supposed to be in support of, or against my post?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Once again, please to not confuse me, a person, with Hilgya, a comic strip character. As above, my take is that Minrah is talking sense, and so is Roy. But this is a comic ... .
    I am not confusing you with anyone. You are the one that suggested there was nothing wrong about Hilgya taking her baby to battle "because she's powerful enough to keep him safe", despite this not actually being in any way a counter for "it would be safer for her not to go into battle at all."

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Also, stay home tomorrow. It's safer not to drive.
    I take this to be meant as trolling. I am done with you.

    GW
    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2017-12-07 at 03:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  7. - Top - End - #247
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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    I take this to be meant as trolling.
    Nope, it's to lampoon your continued tunnel vision regarding the point you keep badgering me about. There is no need to take offense, as none was intended.
    You are the one that suggested there was nothing wrong about Hilgya taking her baby to battle "because she's powerful enough to keep him safe",
    From her point of view. You once again seem to be unable to differentiate between me, and Hilgya.

    In the first two threads that concerned Hilgya, a variety of assumptions were made and conclusions were leaped to by many of those discussing the neat return of a character we'd not see for some years. I am included in that population, as I made some assumptions regarding motherhood and its effects on Hilgya that, with discussion, I came to see as probably poor assumptions.

    In the next few strips, some more of the assumptions about Hilgya will doubtless be shattered. As I noted a few pages back, I trust Rich not to kill babies, so I don't think there's any point in worrying about Hilgya's (odd) position.
    Roy worries about it, and so does Minrah. I'll let them handle that worry, in character, since I don't have to. I am not in the comic strip.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2017-12-07 at 04:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) ... 2D8HP told me so
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze
    Self-deception tends to have a low target number

  8. - Top - End - #248
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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Does she think "a bunch of Thor flunkies" are a bigger threat to Kudzu than a bunch of vampires, or is she not trusting anyone but herself to protect him?
    Probably both.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Also, stay home tomorrow. It's safer not to drive.
    Logical fallacy. It is MUCH more safe for a human in our world to drive a car than it is to bring a baby into battle... in any world.

    You're lampooning all right, but not the person you think you are lampooning.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Oh yeah. She's certainly an accomplice.

    @Themrys:
    should I get deeply offended that Rich often uses goddamn as profanity in OoTS? Please advise. (I'd link to the multiple times Roy has used it, but that one example should suffice).
    I don't understand the need for gotchas and whataboutisms regarding a poster here clearly using the word "bitch" in a misogynistic manner, then responding "LOL triggered" when called out on it.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Okay, so I just went back through the comics featuring Hilgya and Durkon, and here's what I found:

    What Hilgya should know about Durkon:
    -He's all right with a friendly (no-stakes) card game. (Source)
    -At the time of first meeting, his Knowledge (Religion) skill wasn't too terribly high. Which in hindsight, is kind of bizarre for a cleric, but eh. (Source) (It should also be noted that this is about when she started taking a shine to him, which can't have been more than a few hours, tops, after they met. Not judging her one bit for this, just marking it on the timeline.)
    -Durkon is loyal to his party, as his first reaction to Elan being stabbed isn't "well, he dead", but rather, "hold on, I'm coming to help!" (Source)
    -He's generally rational and had at least some respect for her judgement, being willing to go along with her Sanctuary plan in spite of doubting her loyalties only a few minutes before, and asking the appropriate questions in regards to whether it should work. (Source)
    -He's been away from the Dwarven lands for quite some time, and had no significant other to speak of. (If she read between the lines at all, she should also know that he's a bit reluctant to get into romantic relationships, but that could easily be skipped over.) (Source)
    -He greatly appreciated working with another cleric, and was willing to protect her in spite of knowing her for less than a day. (Source)
    -With the exception of Belkar, he thought highly of his teammates. (Source)
    -In spite of being a stubby little fella, he's pretty agile during... well, you know. (Source)
    -Durkon was a virgin before he met Hilgya, and subsequently lost his virginity to her. (Source) (It should also be noted that this, after the act, is when Durkon specifically mentions that he needs to find the others out of a sense of duty.)
    -For Durkon, duty comes before romance. "Loved I not honor more" and all that. (Source)

    NONE of this fits the image she's crafted for him; that of a depraved serial heartbreaker. She was the first time he'd ever had a relationship like that, he valued honor and duty way too highly to willingly turn undead (as opposed to Turn Undead), and even as he pushed her away, he still showed signs of caring for her, but having a higher calling that he had to put first that meant they couldn't be together. So what gives?

    Stewing in her own juices aside, Hilgya might be suffering from a classic case of "cannot comprehend the opposite alignment" syndrome. She's Chaotic and definitely on the southern end of Neutral, at best, while Durkon is Lawful Good. The two of them oppose each other on one, possibly both axes, so misunderstandings of each other's intent are bound to occur. In fact, prior to their doing the deed, there's no reason for either of them to assume that the other is of opposed ideals: while Hilgya worked with Evil people, she clearly didn't like them, and there was relatively little else damning on her record at the time. Similarly, while Durkon stated several times over that he served his party out of a sense of duty, he was still a cleric and could just as easily been doing it on divine commission (and therefore as a duty to whatever god he served, as opposed to the party itself)... plus, he admitted to disliking at least one of his party members (Belkar), so she might have thought his relationship with them wasn't quite as sturdy as he let on.

    She herself clearly thought their views aligned, though, and Durkon seemed to agree:
    "[So] When I saw you, I knew we had everything in common."
    After the fact, she still doesn't seem to understand that he really was genuine in what he was saying... the picture she paints is that of a Chaotic Evil person, which would fit well within her worldview. As far as she's concerned, the whole world is some measure of "Chaotic" and "Evil" in various quantities... hence why she also doesn't trust the honor-bound clerics of Thor, despite the fact that they're bound by Law (and Good, for that matter) not to harm an infant child, and Minrah names at least one member who would make an excellent babysitter. The best she can ascribe to them is "Not Chaotic" (Neutral) and "Not Evil" (Also Neutral), which still makes them just enough of a threat for a new mother to worry about.
    Last edited by Ironsmith; 2017-12-07 at 04:33 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I'm giving it a 20% chance of happening.
    Ivan does look a lot younger, but it's possible Hilgya has been on the run for a long time:

    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0083.html
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2017-12-07 at 04:13 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    I give up. Is this supposed to be in support of, or against my post?
    Well, you said no one is forcing her to take Kudzu into battle, I said she refused not to take Kudzu into battle...And Hilgya's mindset behind the whole thing is rather unclear.

    I mean, it's certainly not uncommon for a mother to feel the need to protect her baby personally...but on the other hand I think protecting a baby would principally involve keeping danger away from said baby...but on the other hand (tentacle?) actively repelling danger with high-level abjuration spells might constitute keeping danger away in her mind.

    So it could be a simple "they're not me" reason, or she may specifically distrust Thor's followers. It's a more interesting question than whether daring a vampire to flame strike Kudzu is a good idea (it's not).

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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironsmith View Post
    What Hilgya should know about Durkon:
    Agreed, and might I add that he was perfectly willing to bring her along until she revealed she was married. The Hilgapologists can't just handwave that away, she has to have actively ignored what he said to characterize him like she has.

    I've a duty to them. I cannae just walk out onnit. But you can come wit' us, baby, unless yer duties lie someplace else.

    Listen, sister, I know he seems nice, but he'll use you and toss you aside once he's had his fun.

    You CAN NOT reconcile those two statements without taking Epic Denial as a feat.
    Last edited by Manty5; 2017-12-07 at 04:26 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Well, you said no one is forcing her to take Kudzu into battle, I said she refused not to take Kudzu into battle...And Hilgya's mindset behind the whole thing is rather unclear.

    I mean, it's certainly not uncommon for a mother to feel the need to protect her baby personally...but on the other hand I think protecting a baby would principally involve keeping danger away from said baby...but on the other hand (tentacle?) actively repelling danger with high-level abjuration spells might constitute keeping danger away in her mind.

    So it could be a simple "they're not me" reason, or she may specifically distrust Thor's followers. It's a more interesting question than whether daring a vampire to flame strike Kudzu is a good idea (it's not).
    Or she could simply NOT volunteer to go out and hunt vampires just so she can get her revenge.

    At no point have I ever suggested she should leave Kudzu in the temple. Not once.

    Please don't simply ignore my actual position when pretending to address it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Manty5 View Post
    Logical fallacy.
    You seem to have missed the point on tunnel vision.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2017-12-07 at 04:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) ... 2D8HP told me so
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze
    Self-deception tends to have a low target number

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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Manty5 View Post
    Agreed, and might I add that he was perfectly willing to bring her along until she revealed she was married. The Hilgapologists can't just handwave that away, she has to have actively ignored what he said to characterize him like she has.
    Exactly. She'd have to assume he lied, which would make sense if she was predisposed to think he was Chaotic (and therefore Evil, after he left her).
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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironsmith View Post
    Exactly. She'd have to assume he lied, which would make sense if she was predisposed to think he was Chaotic (and therefore Evil, after he left her).
    Would it be fair to say that Hilgya engages in projection as a habit, or as a character trait? (in your opinion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    I don't understand the need for gotchas and whataboutisms regarding a poster here clearly using the word "bitch" in a misogynistic manner, then responding "LOL triggered" when called out on it.
    I understand your finding the snark unappealing, and that's a fair complaint. FWIW, the complaint was not just the use of bitch in the post (which I agree was not necessary) but also in the strip, while "feces" vulgar term is censored.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2017-12-07 at 04:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) ... 2D8HP told me so
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze
    Self-deception tends to have a low target number

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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Would it be fair to say that Hilgya engages in projection as a habit, or as a character trait? (in your opinion)
    I'd say she probably does it in the same way most of us do; as a way of trying to make sense of the world around her. Plus, at the time, she was a low-level character (the D&D equivalent of "low life experience"), so while a more enlightened Hilgya might have called herself out on the use of projection, she at the time would see no problem with it (and future her wouldn't go back on it, since it'd been sitting in her head that way for years).

    Edit: Actually, in hindsight, it's probably more character trait, since she's still doing it and clearly has been for some time.
    Last edited by Ironsmith; 2017-12-07 at 04:35 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by drazen View Post
    Hilgya seems nuts, but wasn't there talk a couple comics back that carrying Kudzu into battle was simply a logical thing for a dwarf to do? If their baby dies of illness or negligence of strangers, it goes to Hel. If it dies "in battle," even a battle it can't possibly contribute to, then suddenly that's an honorable death under Dwarven OOTS rules, right?

    I think the "die with honor" rule is a really dumb one... go to an Evil goddess of undeath unless you happen to die in a fight? It allows dishonorable (lying, cheating, evil) dwarves into Valhalla, while sending kinder souls who get the flu when there's no cleric nearby to damnation in Hel's domain, which is presumably a lower plane. But if that's the rule, carrying the kid around seems to make a weird sense. And Hilgya yelling at Roy about it would make sense, as well.

    What I cannot figure out is how ROY didn't make this connection -- he just heard all about this part of dwarven society at the Godsmoot!
    THANK YOU! I read through this entire thread waiting for someone to point out the "die in battle" angle.

    But I still think that this post misses a valuable point.

    If the baby dies in battle, then doesn't the baby's soul belong to...Thor?

    I recall a comic a while back that had Hel and Thor arguing over the definition of battle or what not. But the gist I've gotten is that if you're a dwarf that dies in battle then Thor gets to claim you.

    So not only is she taking her baby into avoidable danger rather than leaving it in safety, she's risking it's soul going to her god's mortal enemy and the god of the guy she hates the most in all the world. (Durkon)

    That's crazy stupid on SO MANY different levels.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    You seem to have missed the point on tunnel vision.
    You cant simultaneously claim to be speaking from the perspective of a character, and then reject any argument against it as being addressed towards the character. Either Hilgya is correct or she isn't, you cant have it both ways.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    Her judgement of him is therefore totally justified. Remember that this is everything she knows about him, that he is the sort of man who would have unprotected sex with a woman and then tell her to go back to her husband, knowing full well that the baby won't have the husband's skin colour, even.
    Not sure Durkon knows the color of Ivan's skin. We do, but I really doubt the subject ever came up between Durkon and Hilgya.

    On a different subject, I really like how Belkar calls into question Hilgya's description of Durkon. He's grown quite a bit since Durkon's death, possibly even realizing that Durkon was a friend. I think half the reason he's been so violently Anti-Durkon* is that he finally appreciates who Durkon was, and is insulted by this thing squatting in his friend's body, pretending to be Durkon. I think Belkar is a little bit shocked to discover that he cares about more people than himself (and his pets).

    Quote Originally Posted by nocoolnamejim View Post
    If the baby dies in battle, then doesn't the baby's soul belong to...Thor?

    I recall a comic a while back that had Hel and Thor arguing over the definition of battle or what not. But the gist I've gotten is that if you're a dwarf that dies in battle then Thor gets to claim you.
    If a dwarf dies an honourable death, it goes to whatever afterlife its actions have earned it (babies will go to live with their closest deceased relative, as I understand it). Liars and Cheaters will not go to Valhalla if they die honourably; they will go to the afterlife for people who lie and cheat. But if they die dishonourably, they go to Hel, regardless of how else they've lived their life.
    Last edited by Lord Torath; 2017-12-07 at 04:35 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    You cant simultaneously claim to be speaking from the perspective of a character, and then reject any argument against it as being addressed towards the character. Either Hilgya is correct or she isn't, you cant have it both ways.
    I reject your false dichotomy, and I can do as I please.
    I find it far more interesting to try and explore the unknown -- as I pointed out earlier, within the first two strips after Hilgya's dramatic arrival, a variety of assumptions made in the first mega thread blew up.

    From Roy's point of view, Hilgya's nuts.
    From Hilgya's point of view, which we don't understand nearly as well as Roy's point of view since we've had a lot of time to get to know Roy, nobody can protect her baby like she can. Will the next few strips provide more insight? Probably. (Someone mentioned in this thread or another one that she seems to have trust issues, but of a different sort than Haley went through during her major character growth arc).
    And I'll revisit two other points: (1) we don't know how may times Hilgya has actually done this "bring baby to work" thing and (2) Hilgya does not know as we the audience do just how major of an encounter this battle will be.

    Bottom line? I trust Rich not to kill babies, and in particular this baby, in the narrative. That's a meta perspective, not one from any of the characters in the strip.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2017-12-07 at 04:34 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nocoolnamejim View Post
    THANK YOU! I read through this entire thread waiting for someone to point out the "die in battle" angle.
    The baby is not a combatant. Thor wouldn't get to claim he had died in battle if he isn't actively involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by nocoolnamejim View Post
    If the baby dies in battle, then doesn't the baby's soul belong to...Thor?

    I recall a comic a while back that had Hel and Thor arguing over the definition of battle or what not. But the gist I've gotten is that if you're a dwarf that dies in battle then Thor gets to claim you.

    So not only is she taking her baby into avoidable danger rather than leaving it in safety, she's risking it's soul going to her god's mortal enemy and the god of the guy she hates the most in all the world. (Durkon)

    That's crazy stupid on SO MANY different levels.
    No, it does not work that way. If you do not end up in Hel's clutches, you go to the plane of your alignment. For babies before the age of reasoning, it is their mother's plane.

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    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    No, it does not work that way. If you do not end up in Hel's clutches, you go to the plane of your alignment. For babies before the age of reasoning, it is their mother's plane.

    GW
    Ah. Thank you for clarifying. I must have remembered something wrong. Because if she was not only risking the kid's life but also risking Thor getting it's soul for all eternity that would make her refusing to leave the kid temporarily with the clerics of Thor even more illogical.

    That aside...

    Put me on the team that says it doesn't matter how many abjuration spells you know, wearing your infant child in front of your chest into battle is an absolutely insane case of child endangerment. Soldiers can, for example, wear Kevlar vests to stop bullets but still get killed if someone tosses a grenade their way.

    I also wonder why people are so confident that Giant would never let the baby come to serious harm. I actually hope that isn't the case because that would basically hand Hilgya a big "get out of stupid" free card.

    Yes, it would be an extremely dark turn for the comic as a whole and might turn a few people off, but it would also be extremely realistic for the child to get harmed given the enemy they're marching up against.
    Last edited by nocoolnamejim; 2017-12-07 at 04:42 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Or she could simply NOT volunteer to go out and hunt vampires just so she can get her revenge.
    Sure, but what does that have to do with why she doesn't trust the followers of Thor to take care of Kudzu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Please don't simply ignore my actual position when pretending to address it.
    Oh. Maybe your position simply isn't related to the aspect of the situation I'm wondering about.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Pretty sure it would be callous for this to be a Suicide run even if the Baby follows her into the afterlife.
    The Dwarves have been very honor happy, but have not been shown to be suicidal like lemmings.
    To condemn a child's soul into whatever afterlife she lives in (Assuming the child follows her there), without choices to make up its own mind and maybe choose its own god/ alignment.....because she feels like it.

    That would make her from crazy to a level of truly despicable.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nocoolnamejim View Post
    I also wonder why people are so confident that Giant would never let the baby come to serious harm. I actually hope that isn't the case because that would basically hand Hilgya a big "get out of stupid" free card.
    This point was brought up in the very long thread that came out of Hilgya's return to on screen. I'll see if I can find a few of the posts, since our brilliant banana archvist IIRC linked to some of Rich's comments about kids in the strip. This make take a bit of digging, that strip went off the rails a bit.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nocoolnamejim View Post
    Put me on the team that says it doesn't matter how many abjuration spells you know, wearing your infant child in front of your chest into battle is an absolutely insane case of child endangerment. Soldiers can, for example, wear Kevlar vests to stop bullets but still get killed if someone tosses a grenade their way.

    I also wonder why people are so confident that Giant would never let the baby come to serious harm. I actually hope that isn't the case because that would basically hand Hilgya a big "get out of stupid" free card.

    Yes, it would be an extremely dark turn for the comic as a whole and might turn a few people off, but it would also be extremely realistic for the child to get harmed given the enemy they're marching up against.
    I doubt the baby will actually get hurt (because, as you said, that's pretty dark), but I can totally see a scenario where harm looks to be inevitable (or at least, something Hilgya most assuredly can't stop), only for some other party member to prevent the blow from landing (kill two birds with one stone and make it Belkar, even). Hilgya would almost certainly be scared out of (or into) her senses, and that'd change her view on the matter somewhat.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1107 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    This point was brought up in the very long thread that came out of Hilgya's return to on screen. I'll see if I can find a few of the posts, since our brilliant banana archvist IIRC linked to some of Rich's comments about kids in the strip. This make take a bit of digging, that strip went off the rails a bit.
    You mean like these posts?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Here are the stats you actually need for a hatchling dragon:

    Movement: Gets away if you let it.
    Saving Throws: Miraculously survives all accidents.
    Armor Class: You hit.
    Hit Points: Congratulations, Baby-Killer.
    Special Qualities: I hope you can live with yourself.

    Coincidentally, these are the same exact stats for every other species of baby.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I think that does constitute evidence (and Vaarsuvius' mass-murder constitutes significantly greater evidence) that Rich's quote about babies not needing stats has been misinterpreted to some extent. The baby is not safe, but anyone who harms him will be shown to be doing something horribly evil (comparable to harming a black dragon hatchling).
    All true. That said, the baby is supremely unlikely to take damage die from indirect causes, anyone intentionally targeting the baby would be doing so in lieu of targeting an actual threat to their existence, and the destroy-the-world plot would take the baby along with everyone else on the planet anyway. The baby's likely the safest individual in the entire tunnel system.

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