Questions about rule lawyering

[Galgano]

Hey guys, I'd like some RAW help for some of my questions. So I'm looking at a new spell from Xanathar's guide called Steel Wind Tempest and I'm thinking to myself "I just found my next gimmick." However there are a few questions I have regarding the rules. See I am a wizard and want to be corny as heck. As such, when I can finally learn that spell, I plan on getting a katana. The way the spell is worded is that, you make a melee spell attack with a weapon that costs more than 1sp. I realize I can just use a wand to forgo the material component but then it won't be silly enough. Since it's a melee spell attack I don't need to be proficient with the weapon to use my proficiency bonus since I use spell proficiency (yes, I'm only getting a katana for this spell. I don't plan on using it for anything else).

If I delay my action until an enemy attacks me and use Steel Wind Tempest, since I can choose my exit point when the spell ends, can I use it to evade the attack by choosing another square? I guess this question applies to any teleportation spell.

Does the range of Steel Wind Tempest apply to all enemies from my starting point or from each enemy I attack?

Does a spell melee attack count as a melee attack for the purposes of other spells that use a melee attack like booming blade or absorb elements?

The spell text for Fireball says that it goes around corners. Does that mean an enemy that benefits from the effects of cover can't use that bonus when making a dexterity saving throw against the effects of Fireball?

Do all 5ft melee attacks against a dying character give 2 automatic failures?

[DarkKnightJin]

Does a spell melee attack count as a melee attack for the purposes of other spells that use a melee attack like booming blade or absorb elements?

The spell text for Fireball says that it goes around corners. Does that mean an enemy that benefits from the effects of cover can't use that bonus when making a dexterity saving throw against the effects of Fireball?

Do all 5ft melee attacks against a dying character give 2 automatic failures?

I'm skipping the Steel Wind Strike stuff since I'm AFB and can't look up the description.

Melee attacks are melee attacks. If an effect requires a weapon to proc, it will call for a 'melee weapon attack' specifically. Best example: Paladin's Divine Smite. It required you make a melee weapon attack before you can add Smite damage on that.

If the effect of a spell, like Fireball, says it goes around corners, enemies around that corner do indeed not get cover bonuses. (My reading, not 100% sure.)

Any melee attacks made from within 5 foot of an Incapacitated (or Unconscious, not sure on the RAW here) automatically deal critical damage if they hit.
Being delivered a critical hit while you're at 0hp means you have 2 failed Death Saves.

Hope I have been able to help you out with these.

[LeonBH]

I realize I can just use a wand to forgo the material component

You can't, since the material component has a cost. A wand can't replace it.

If I delay my action until an enemy attacks me and use Steel Wind Tempest, since I can choose my exit point when the spell ends, can I use it to evade the attack by choosing another square? I guess this question applies to any teleportation spell.

You would ready your action, holding on to the spell and barring any other concentration effects. You must specify the trigger to release the spell.

If the trigger is that you are hit with an attack, then you take damage before you release the spell (and must make a concentration save).

If the trigger is before you are hit with an attack, then you release the spell, but your would-be attacker does not use up their action to attack you. They can choose to hit someone else if they're still alive.

Generally, once the roll is made, the effects also happen. If they landed a crit on you, you still take that crit, even if you ready your action to release a teleportation spell.

Does the range of Steel Wind Tempest apply to all enemies from my starting point or from each enemy I attack?

The way it is written, you strike all enemies simultaneously. The range of the spell is only 30ft and so all enemies must be within 30ft of you when you cast the spell.

Does a spell melee attack count as a melee attack for the purposes of other spells that use a melee attack like booming blade or absorb elements?

No for Booming Blade (it requires a melee weapon attack) and no for Absorb Elements (it requires taking elemental damage, not force damage). But it counts as a melee attack.

The spell text for Fireball says that it goes around corners. Does that mean an enemy that benefits from the effects of cover can't use that bonus when making a dexterity saving throw against the effects of Fireball?

Full cover will still protect them, but Fireball goes through half and three-quarters cover.

Do all 5ft melee attacks against a dying character give 2 automatic failures?

As long as the attack involves an attack roll (not a save or an auto-hit), if it is done within 5ft of the creature, it is an automatic critical. A critical hit counts as 2 failed death saves.

Some effects allow critical hits to become just regular hits. So there will be some effects that can make that melee attack against an unconscious creature render only 1 failed death save.

[BobZan]

Hey guys, I'd like some RAW help for some of my questions. So I'm looking at a new spell from Xanathar's guide called Steel Wind Tempest and I'm thinking to myself "I just found my next gimmick." However there are a few questions I have regarding the rules. See I am a wizard and want to be corny as heck. As such, when I can finally learn that spell, I plan on getting a katana. The way the spell is worded is that, you make a melee spell attack with a weapon that costs more than 1sp. I realize I can just use a wand to forgo the material component but then it won't be silly enough. Since it's a melee spell attack I don't need to be proficient with the weapon to use my proficiency bonus since I use spell proficiency (yes, I'm only getting a katana for this spell. I don't plan on using it for anything else).

If I delay my action until an enemy attacks me and use Steel Wind Tempest, since I can choose my exit point when the spell ends, can I use it to evade the attack by choosing another square? I guess this question applies to any teleportation spell.

Does the range of Steel Wind Tempest apply to all enemies from my starting point or from each enemy I attack?

Does a spell melee attack count as a melee attack for the purposes of other spells that use a melee attack like booming blade or absorb elements?

The spell text for Fireball says that it goes around corners. Does that mean an enemy that benefits from the effects of cover can't use that bonus when making a dexterity saving throw against the effects of Fireball?

Do all 5ft melee attacks against a dying character give 2 automatic failures?

You don't "Delay", you use the "Ready" action. When you use Ready, you have to "decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your reaction", so if your trigger is "when an enemy attacks me", I would rule that you take the attack and its implications and you also use your spell normally. If you go for "when an enemy approaches 10ft from me", if triggered, you use the spell, teleports and the enemy continues his action afterwards.

[Talamare]

Ready needs a Trigger

and the Ready Ability happens AFTER the Trigger

So if you decide someone Attacks you, they would get their Attack off

[Asmotherion]

Hey guys, I'd like some RAW help for some of my questions. So I'm looking at a new spell from Xanathar's guide called Steel Wind Tempest and I'm thinking to myself "I just found my next gimmick." However there are a few questions I have regarding the rules. See I am a wizard and want to be corny as heck. As such, when I can finally learn that spell, I plan on getting a katana. The way the spell is worded is that, you make a melee spell attack with a weapon that costs more than 1sp. I realize I can just use a wand to forgo the material component but then it won't be silly enough. Since it's a melee spell attack I don't need to be proficient with the weapon to use my proficiency bonus since I use spell proficiency (yes, I'm only getting a katana for this spell. I don't plan on using it for anything else).

If I delay my action until an enemy attacks me and use Steel Wind Tempest, since I can choose my exit point when the spell ends, can I use it to evade the attack by choosing another square? I guess this question applies to any teleportation spell.

Does the range of Steel Wind Tempest apply to all enemies from my starting point or from each enemy I attack?

Does a spell melee attack count as a melee attack for the purposes of other spells that use a melee attack like booming blade or absorb elements?

The spell text for Fireball says that it goes around corners. Does that mean an enemy that benefits from the effects of cover can't use that bonus when making a dexterity saving throw against the effects of Fireball?

Do all 5ft melee attacks against a dying character give 2 automatic failures?

A) You can't skip the material component of something with a listed price (here, 1 silver), not even with an Arcane Focus.

B) You need proficiency with the weapon to use it effectivelly, as well as use your Str/Dex and not your spellcasting ability modifier for Steel Wind Strike. The spell asks you to make a Melee attack and not a melee spell attack to each target, as per the scag cantrips. It is designed with a Martial Character in mind, but can be usefull on any caster who does not completelly dump Dexterity. Anyone who has both a dump Str and Dex usually can pull a lot better melee options (for example the Hexblade), so it deals with balance issues at the same time. My bad, wrong spell.

C) If something is below 0 HP and you hit it with an attack, resolve the interaction as normal. If the DM intends to do something diferent, it's up to him.

D) Avoid Rule Lawyering. It wastes your and everyone elses presious game-time, and you will always have more fun by actually following the story in my oppinion. If you're not satisfied with a DM's approach, wait for a few sessions before giving feedback;

Ultimatelly, you may be thinking
-Hey, I just got "Arcane Smite", and it's awesome.
...and it's partially true, lore wise, visually wise, role playing wise. You look cool with it.

...but in effect, Steel wind strike is effectivelly a more pinpoint and less risky to hurt your companions version of Fireball with a better damage type. And it's a flushy AoE for Gish Builds, I'll give you that, it's great visually.


PS: I Confused B with Shadow Blade, the attack is indeed a Melee spell attack using your Spellcasting Ability Modifier.

[Varlon]

B) You need proficiency with the weapon to use it effectivelly, as well as use your Str/Dex and not your spellcasting ability modifier for Steel Wind Strike. The spell asks you to make a Melee attack and not a melee spell attack to each target, as per the scag cantrips.

This is not correct; you may want to read the spell again. It's a spell for casters to do a cool weapon thing.

[LeonBH]

PS: I Confused B with Shadow Blade, the attack is indeed a Melee spell attack using your Spellcasting Ability Modifier.

You may want to edit your answer so this is up there to begin with. It makes things less confusing. I was about to correct you that the spell requires a melee spell attack.

[Asmotherion]

This is not correct; you may want to read the spell again. It's a spell for casters to do a cool weapon thing.

Yeah, double checked and you're right. Whith all the new "Arcane Smite" options in the new book, I confused Shadow Blade's needing a Melee Attack with Steel Wind Strike not requiring one XD. My bad. Seriously, in this book, practically everyone either got Smite or Sneak attack, one way or the Other. Barbarians got Cantrips(?) or at least cantrip like abilities... does it feel too 3.5 if I call them spell-like abilities?

As a Gish Build Enthousiast I don't complain though :P

You may want to edit your answer so this is up there to begin with. It makes things less confusing. I was about to correct you that the spell requires a melee spell attack.

... and done. XD

[Galgano]

You can't, since the material component has a cost. A wand can't replace it.

The way it is written, you strike all enemies simultaneously. The range of the spell is only 30ft and so all enemies must be within 30ft of you when you cast the spell.

No for Booming Blade (it requires a melee weapon attack) and no for Absorb Elements (it requires taking elemental damage, not force damage). But it counts as a melee attack.

Bah, you're right. I knew about the component cost thing, but it completely slipped my mind. And I even specifically mentioned the one silver cost too .

For Absorb Elements, I was referring to the opposite direction. If I got hit by a fire-breathing something and absorbed the fire damage, could I deal the stored fire damage with the Steel Wind Strike. I'm assuming you can because you said it counts as a melee attack. You said that it strikes all enemies simultaneously. Could I then add the extra damage to all of them ? Or just the first one I connect with. I feel like saying "One strike!" or "Did you miss me?" and then spam my mastery symbol while taunting the enemy after using this spell.

D) Avoid Rule Lawyering. It wastes your and everyone else's precious game-time, and you will always have more fun by actually following the story in my opinion. If you're not satisfied with a DM's approach, wait for a few sessions before giving feedback;

I'm not trying to be a rule lawyer, I was more just looking for clarification on how certain rules interact with each other. I figured a rule lawyer would have the best knowledge regarding interconnected rules.

[LeonBH]

For Absorb Elements, I was referring to the opposite direction. If I got hit by a fire-breathing something and absorbed the fire damage, could I deal the stored fire damage with the Steel Wind Strike. I'm assuming you can because you said it counts as a melee attack. You said that it strikes all enemies simultaneously. Could I then add the extra damage to all of them ? Or just the first one I connect with. I feel like saying "One strike!" or "Did you miss me?" and then spam my mastery symbol while taunting the enemy after using this spell.

Ah. Yes, you can use Absorb Elements and transfer that damage to the targets of Steel Wind Strike. And I would say that the extra damage would carry over to all the targets.

As support, Absorb Elements says "the first time you hit with a melee attack on your next turn, the target takes an extra 1d6 damage of the triggering type" while Steel Wind Strike, which as an Instantaneous duration effect, says, "Make a melee spell attack against each target."

Therefore, once cast, you must instantaneously strike all all the targets, so that all of them are the first creatures you hit with your spell attack.

[JackPhoenix]

You would ready your action, holding on to the spell and barring any other concentration effects. You must specify the trigger to release the spell.

If the trigger is that you are hit with an attack, then you take damage before you release the spell (and must make a concentration save).

If the trigger is before you are hit with an attack, then you release the spell, but your would-be attacker does not use up their action to attack you. They can choose to hit someone else if they're still alive.

Generally, once the roll is made, the effects also happen. If they landed a crit on you, you still take that crit, even if you ready your action to release a teleportation spell.

In addition to this, Readying spells means you cast it on your turn, and you'll lose the slot even if the triggering condition won't come to pass. Also, the concentration means that you may take damage, fail the Con save, and your spell gets interrupted before you can teleport. It also takes reaction, so if you had to use Shield or some other reaction (enemy moving around you and provoking OA, for example), you can't use the readied spell.

[Aett_Thorn]

Ah. Yes, you can use Absorb Elements and transfer that damage to the targets of Steel Wind Strike. And I would say that the extra damage would carry over to all the targets.

As support, Absorb Elements says "the first time you hit with a melee attack on your next turn, the target takes an extra 1d6 damage of the triggering type" while Steel Wind Strike, which as an Instantaneous duration effect, says, "Make a melee spell attack against each target."

Therefore, once cast, you must instantaneously strike all all the targets, so that all of them are the first creatures you hit with your spell attack.

While I get your point, I doubt that many DMs would allow that. I mean, let's say you're attacking five creatures with this spell. You make an attack roll against each individually. So that you're attacking one at a time, even though the effects are happening rather simultaneously. But you'd still have an order to your rolls.