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2017-12-07, 08:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
The CoffeeLock buzz has passed, and here it is, returning. Returning, but nerfed.
According to Jeremy Crawford, Aspect of the Moon does not remove the need for long rests.
This means that the CoffeeLock with Aspect of the Moon will still be rolling a Con save of increasing difficulty every 24 hours as long as they do not take a long rest. It seems they just don't sleep and that's it.
The relevant optional rule (XgtE 78): "Whenever you end a 24-hour period without finishing a long rest, you must succeed on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw or suffer one level of exhaustion."Last edited by LeonBH; 2017-12-07 at 08:52 AM.
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2017-12-07, 08:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
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Re: Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
Which is unfortunate really... outside of the coffeelock (which can still be done, but only at much higher level now); Aspect of the Moon is a mostly fluff ability anyways. The ability to do ‘light activity’ instead of useful things 6 hours a night just isn’t worth an invocation slot (to me)
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2017-12-07, 08:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
Re: Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
While I agree to an extent, it does allow the Warlock to always be the one on watch. And that means that the Warlock can get up to all sorts of shenanigans while the other players sleep. Tie their shoelaces together, stick their hands in warm water, barter their souls on their behalf for even more power, swap all of their stuff around. You know, typical hijinks.
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2017-12-07, 08:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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2017-12-07, 09:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
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Re: Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
While several are marginal utility at best, I can’t think of another besides Aspect of the Moon that you are only paying for flavor essentially (I guess unless sleep-inducing magic is a big problem in the campaign).
Eyes of the Runekeeper, Gaze of Two Minds, and Voice of the Chain Master lack combat uses but all have niches in exploration/social stuff. Some of the spells you can get are pretty weak, but not weaker than ‘change the fluff on your mandatory rests’
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2017-12-07, 09:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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2017-12-07, 09:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
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- NW USA
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2017-12-07, 09:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
I am the flush of excitement. The blush on the cheek. I am the Rouge!
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2017-12-07, 09:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
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Re: Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
Banish is a great spell, but already in the warlock spell list.
Compulsion, Confusion, Hold Monster, Conjure Elemental, Slow, Polymorph, Bane... Freedom of Movement...
And those are weak enough that very few people take them already, so making things with even less mechanical effect in the name of flavor isn’t doing it for me. Which is a shame, things like ‘never sleeping’ are often the kind of things I waste character options on a lot of the time in various games
Kind of makes Warforged a bit weird too... unrelenting magic soldiers? Nope, need that nightly ‘power save mode’
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2017-12-07, 09:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
I mean I was never going to play a Coffeelock anyway, or even facilitate one in a game I ran, but it's still one more thing that is now just straight-up useless fluff.
Could they not have just put a note that says, "This does not eliminate your need to take long rests." with the invocation itself? How hard would that have been? Because the way its written in the book it really reads like there should be some benefit to it.Last edited by UrielAwakened; 2017-12-07 at 09:38 AM.
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2017-12-07, 09:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
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Re: Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
Would some half-ground like ‘you don’t need to sleep, and you can take a long rest in the time of a short rest, use this ability once only 24 hours’ break anything?
And in any case coffeelock lives as soon as you can cast Greater Restoration, albeit at 100g every few days
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2017-12-07, 09:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
Well that's stupid. Oh well, at least he answered it. Guess infinite coffeelocks will need to be Divine Souls for Greater Restoration then!
Last edited by Mikal; 2017-12-07 at 09:57 AM.
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2017-12-07, 09:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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2017-12-07, 09:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2017
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Re: Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
Really, the CoffeeLock can live earlier by risking one DC 10 Con save. It's disadvantage to ability checks, but they are proficient in the save, and depending on their subclass, it's actually not that big a risk. But they won't have infinitely many spell slots. They would just be a stronger Sorlock.
And yes, that half ground will allow a full spellcaster to regain their highest level spells in 1 hour. CoffeeLocks won't use it, but everyone else will like it.
The RAW is the RAW. The RAI is the RAI.
Seems to still disable CoffeeLocks though.Last edited by LeonBH; 2017-12-07 at 09:58 AM.
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2017-12-07, 09:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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Re: Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
I'm glad he engages with people, and I recognize that he's one of the lead designers, but Twitter is the least authoritative source I can possibly imagine.
In-character problems require in-character solutions. Out-of-character problems require out-of-character solutions.
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2017-12-07, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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2017-12-07, 10:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2017
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Re: Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
It's officially backed up though, his tweets are authoritative, at least for learning the RAI.
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2017-12-07, 10:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
Sigh. So much for that invocation. Now it's gone from "niche" to "basically useless." In fact, nearly totally useless, because you could already long rest without sleeping.
Originally Posted by PHB
Not to mention that the Xanathar's rule becomes totally incompatible with the gritty rests variant, since that only lets you long rest once/week.Hill Giant Games
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2017-12-07, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
I am the flush of excitement. The blush on the cheek. I am the Rouge!
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2017-12-07, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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2017-12-07, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2014
Re: Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
This kind of ruling is bad for the game, but not because of the coffeelock. Individual DMs already maintain balance at their own tables. Rather, it's a non-intuitive and restricting ruling.
If you don't need to sleep, you shouldn't need to take eight hours of rest every day. That's the way I read it and, I suspect, that's the way almost everyone read it.
Further, not needing to take long rests opens up all sorts of possibilities, most of which have nothing to do with the coffeelock. Depending on the character and campaign, there's a lot of untapped potential there.
Luckily, Crawford's RAI has next to no impact on how the game is actually played, in my experience.Breaking BM: Revised - an updated look at the beast-mounted halfling ranger based on the Revised Ranger: Beast Conclave.
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2017-12-07, 10:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
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2017-12-07, 10:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2017
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Re: Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
No, you need 6 hours of sleep at a minimum. Check the 2nd page of the PHB Errata.
The long rest rule was supposed to say, you need 8 hours of downtime of which you need to either sleep or do light activity, but the light activity can only be 2 hours at most. The implication was you needed to sleep for 6 hours. I believe they clarified this by explicitly saying you need 6 hours of sleep as part of a long rest now.
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2017-12-07, 10:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2016
Re: Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
Vindication!
This aligns with my original reading of the Aspect of the Moon text. (I was basically shouted down in the first xge coffeelock thread for suggesting it)
Thank you for sharing. So glad JC cleared this up, though to be honest I was hoping he’d come down the other way on it.
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2017-12-07, 10:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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2017-12-07, 10:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2017
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Re: Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
Last edited by LeonBH; 2017-12-07 at 10:16 AM.
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2017-12-07, 10:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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2017-12-07, 10:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2017
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Re: Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
You literally just said the evidence seemed to point strongly to the other side. I repeated your words to you. Then let me repeat them back to you again, now.
If the evidence was strong for the other side, why were there so many threads with people arguing about it then?
But whatever. AotM does not obsolete long rests, and the world makes sense again.
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2017-12-07, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Aspect of the Moon and Long Rests
I was trying to agree with you, in that the evidence pointed in either direction, depending on how you looked at it. I disagreed with how you looked at it, but at least until they change their mind, the way you were looking at it was the valid one.
As for the world making sense... when has it ever done that?Last edited by Mikal; 2017-12-07 at 10:22 AM.
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2017-12-07, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2017
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