Vikings & Amerindians

[Thorongil]

DISCLAIMER: While I use the terms "Vikings," "Amerindians," and other names like "Mohegan" or "Norsemen," I'm not making any effort to have them reflect their real-world counterparts, except where it's convenient to telling the story/crafting the setting. Think of this world as a parallel universe, created by a God with no thought for our own world beyond "huh, that person/name/event/place is kinda cool! I'll put them in my world!"

The bones: We know the Vikings made it as far west as Greenland and Canada- but what if they'd made it a little farther? What if they'd stuck around, encountered the natives, and done what humans do best: fight and procreate. This setting is mixes some what-if history with a little magic. Bear in mind, it's fairly rough. I'm completely open to suggestions, criticisms, any kind of feedback, and will do my best to respond. I'll be adding pics eventually, though with my workload, this thread will probably develop slowly. I'm not at all versed in Old Norse or any Native American language, so most of the names will be cribbed from Wikipedia, Google Translate, and my own brain making up things that sound kinda right.

The premise: An expedition of Norsemen and their families, led by the bastard twins Torwin and Galver Saltson, sails west across the ocean, and arrives in a harsh new land. Fleeing the persecution of their true-born brethren, they decide to establish themselves in this place.

However, they aren't the first men to walk these shores. Soon, they encounter men with reddish skin and dark hair, men who know these lands far better than the Norsemen. While their first encounters are peaceful, if tenuous, misunderstanding and fear on both sides leads to bloodshed, and the Norsemen find themselves outnumbered in this strange land. Although the natives, (who are called the Mohegan), have numbers and knowledge of the land, the Norsemen carry iron swords, and their longships allow them to cover great distances both on the sea and up the rivers which riddle the land.

After a year of fighting, and Torwin's death, Galver and the spiritual leader of the Mohegan, Kon-qweia, manage to make a fragile peace through their marriage. Recognizing that their peoples would constantly be in conflict without a common bond, the pair are the beginning a new people. The Norsemen call this clan the Frae-men, or "Men Who are Seeds," while the Mohegan call them Qwaeia-ton, or "Qweia's Sons." In time, both names become widely accepted by the society and its neighbors.

Over the next five hundred years, the Frae-men, with the aid of elements of both the Norsemen and Mohegan, establish themselves as a power in this land. Purer strains of the Norsemen and Mohegan are present in their society, but the majority of families are of mixed blood. The Norsemen's roots as reavers and sailors allow them to make use of the sea for sustenance as they colonize the coast and river-banks, while the Mohegan culture adapts the people to the deep woods and mountains. In this time, they synthesize the agriculture of their roots into a new discipline, for the seedlings brought by the Norsemen expedition thrives in the new clime.

While some of this expansion is accomplished peacefully, such as by trade or marriage, some land is taken through skirmishes, and some by sheer trickery. Amidst the skirmishing, there have been massacres, a few major wars, and one world-shattering event. More details on that event will be forthcoming, but at this late hour, I can only say this:

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Three hundred years ago, some colonizing Norsemen, moving south, got too close to the sacred site of a particularly unforgiving tribe, and were made to disappear, bloodily so. In retaliation, a Frae-men chieftain (who had commissioned their expedition) went on a rampage through native lands, refusing to take prisoners. As his campaign dragged on, he became corrupted by dark magic (or perhaps he already had been tainted before the disappearance), and so became nigh-unkillable. In response, the same unfriendly tribe called down the magic of their gods, creating a massive storm system off the coast. They had intended to brings its fury crashing down on the Frae-men and Norsemen settlements, wiping the Norse lineage from their land. A circle of Mohegan and Qweia-ton druids partnered with Norsemen clerics to hold back worst of the storm, but many towns were devastated nonetheless. With complete disaster averted, the spell-casters forced the storm back to the deep ocean, at great cost to their own life-force. The massive storm still rages to this day, a few days sailing out from the coast, and as a result, the Norsemen couldn't return home even if they wanted to, nor can any sailor from their homeland reach their cousins. With that threat dealt with, the Frae-men and Mohegan sent their warriors upriver in Norse longships, pursuing the chieftain as he penetrated deeper inland. By the time they caught up to him, he was a raving maniac, twisted by the unknown magic and the depravity of his campaign. With the aid of survivors from the tribes he had attacked, the warriors put him down like a rabid dog. His death poisoned the surrounding landscape, creating a withered bog in the shadow of the High Mountains which would come to be known as Fallowmire.

Ever since, This Land has been completely cut off from the Norse homeland, and the Frae-men and their Norse cousins have stayed well clear of the forest where the tribe which nearly destroyed them still dwells.

Magic in this setting: I'd like to retain magic as-is as much as possible. So far as the system, I'm partial to both Pathfinder and 5e, having played a bit in both. Of course, that's a lot of complexity versus a little, so I'm tentatively leaning towards 5e. Spell-casters can all be re-fluffed pretty easily, I think. While Druids, Clerics, Bards, Rangers, and Paladins all make sense to me for this setting, Sorcerers are a little trickier, and Wizardry needs some work, since neither the Norsemen nor the Mohegan are particularly disposed to the bookish arts (I'm thinking tattooing, scarification, word-knots, and paintings instead of spellbooks). So there's a place for both Divine and Arcane magic in This Land, but the fluff is gonna be a bit limited by the theme of the setting.

Gods: The Norsemen believe in a fairly traditional pantheon- Odin, Thor, Loki, Freya, Njord, etc, and tend to produce clerics. The Mohegan have a long tradition of spirit worship and animism, and tend to produce druids. The Frae-men/Qweia-ton honor both belief systems, making offerings and prayers both to the gods and to their own ancestors, while harboring a special devotion for the land and waters which have allowed them to thrive. Outside of these three cultures, belief systems vary from tribe to tribe- some worship nature, some their ancestors, some believe in gods, others worship a single personality or bloodline.

Classes: All core classes are allowed. Culturally speaking, I see most PC's coming from Mohegan, Frae-Men/Qweia-ton, or Norsemen roots, and I'd like all classes to be more or less available to players who take that route. Fluff to follow.

Races: Obviously this setting is a bit limited, as the only sentient races I'm including for now are humans. I'm thinking some racial buffs will be transplanted, with Norsemen picking up the Dwarf Constitution bonus, and Mohegan picking up the Elf Dexterity bonus. Frae-men/Qweia-ton will get the Human complete ability score buff. As new variations on natives, Norsemen, and their mingled blood are introduced, I might transplant other races and re-skin them, but for now, I'm keeping this simple.

Monsters: This is another place where players/DMs will be limited, as the monsters have to be in keeping with the overall North American/Norse theme of the setting, and the world will be fairly low-magic. In plain speech, don't hold your breath for dinosaurs or beholders. However, there will be a lot of fauna and megafauna, undead will make appearances, as will lycanthropes, wendigos, assorted magical beasts, plant monsters, all manner of swarms, some fey, and a myriad of human threats. Ogres and Giants will come in if the PC's get far enough west, past the steppes and into the mountains (more on them later).

Adventuring: There will be a lot of wilderness to explore, plenty of small settlements, but only a few large towns/cities. As of yet, I've only barely sketched out one native city, a Frae-men town, a couple Norsemen holds, a bustling trade town each for the Frae-men and another native tribe, and larger seasonal stop-offs for nomadic tribes on the steppes and plains.

History: Much more of this if forth-coming. The Frae-Men/Qweia-ton did not survive five-hundred years without a lot of conflict, a lot of trade, and a lot of exploration. Heroes and stories abound.

[Vykryl]

If you want a couple books to read for ideas try these. Sorry for not commenting on your material but I'm a bit scattered for comprehension right now. I do want to go through it when I can concentrate better.

Rune Stone by Don Coldsmith: A Viking expedition through the great lakes and down the Mississippi, if I remember right.

People of the Raven by W. Michael Gear & Kathleen O'Neal Gear: More a Native American story but one of the peoples is Caucasian. Believe it takes place along the Washington coast.

Valhalla Rising by Clive Cussler has a short story about a Viking settlement in Newfoundland.

[Juicy Kisses]

You should also read up on Leif Eriksson and read any viking poetry you can find about expeditions to Vinland. In the sagas about Leif Eriksson it talks a lot about his experiences living in Canada and his encounters with the natives, eventually being run off the continent by them.

[Xuc Xac]

The bones: We know the Vikings made it as far west as Greenland and Canada- but what if they'd made it a little farther?

This just gave me an idea that struck me as much more interesting. What if the Vikings reached North America and went back home but the natives followed them? What if the Iroquois thought "hey, a Viking longboat isn't much bigger than our big canoes, so let's just make some bigger canoes and go east until we find their land!" What if a heavily populated North America decided to colonise a Europe still decimated and recovering from the black death?

[LCP]

What if a heavily populated North America decided to colonise a Europe still decimated and recovering from the black death?

...the colonists would catch the Black Death?

[Ashtagon]

...the colonists would catch the Black Death?

So basically, a low-tech War of the Worlds.

[GalacticAxekick]

The Mohegan nation is in Conneticut, hundreds of miles south of the the Norse "Vinland" (Newfoundland and the north shore of New Brunswick).

Why move the Vikings south when there are natives in Newfoundland and New Brunswick? The Beothuk nation lived in Newfoundland at the time, and were almost certainly the "skraelings" described by the Norse visitors. Three nations—the Mi'kmaq, Maliseet, and Passamaquoddy—lived (and still live!) in New Brunswick at the time as well.

[Vykryl]

There is the Kensington Runestone from Minnesota. I've heard both that it is a fake and that it was a marker left by Template in the 1300s.

Lost In The Barrens and The Iceburg Hermit are a couple more books with useful information.

[Thorongil]

The Mohegan nation is in Conneticut, hundreds of miles south of the the Norse "Vinland" (Newfoundland and the north shore of New Brunswick).

Why move the Vikings south when there are natives in Newfoundland and New Brunswick? The Beothuk nation lived in Newfoundland at the time, and were almost certainly the "skraelings" described by the Norse visitors. Three nations—the Mi'kmaq, Maliseet, and Passamaquoddy—lived (and still live!) in New Brunswick at the time as well.

Yeah, I picked up the Mohegan name from that nation. But I'm not really making any effort to stick magic and monsters into a world that otherwise resembles our own (among other issues, it'd be a raging pain in the neck). I picked "Mohegan" because it resembles "Mohican," a name I've always liked the sound of, without being "Mohican."

These "Vikings" didn't sail from "Norway" to "North America," or at least not any version of those places that is a 100% true reflection of our own (heck, maybe not even 50%). I'm more interested in cobbling together bits and pieces from the cultures and lands to create something simpler. However, I wasn't clear about that at all in the OP. I've updated it to reflect my intent and creative process.

That being said, I've been looking for a name to give a nation that lives farther north, and Boethuk sounds great! So thank you (and everyone) for their replies! Gives me a ton of material to investigate, and a great deal to think about.

[raygun goth]

...the colonists would catch the Black Death?

Bubonic plague is endemic in mammals in North America. They'd be as resistant as Asian populations. It's also fair to note that the Europeans died by native diseases by the droves when they got over here, as well, and a reverse situation would very likely result in the same thing if the Indigenous peoples were expansionist - this was generally how Europeans colonised places to begin with. They'd move in, die in swarms, slowly stop dying, and eventually just pile up and overwhelm local populations.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Bubonic plague is endemic in mammals in North America. They'd be as resistant as Asian populations.

Except North Americans didn't really keep much livestock. Maybe a few turkeys and a really, really lost lama. This would limit their exposure to mammalian diseases significantly (cooking a buffalo every now and then is not the same as living in the same building as a bunch of cows), thus it would limit the selective pressure towards resistance and immunity.

And even completely resistant to the black death they'd still run into a disease like smallpox, which was pretty much a constant factor in Europe in this time, a third of the people got infected over their lifetime. That one did some nasty work when it finally got to America.



For a game setting though I'm sure you can find a handwave. Smallpox by that later time had evolved to keep up in the war against European immune systems, and it turns out one of those adaptions was what made the disease so dangerous to Americans. Something like that.

[raygun goth]

Except North Americans didn't really keep much livestock. Maybe a few turkeys and a really, really lost lama. This would limit their exposure to mammalian diseases significantly (cooking a buffalo every now and then is not the same as living in the same building as a bunch of cows), thus it would limit the selective pressure towards resistance and immunity.

"Eating a buffalo every now and then" is also not the same as living in a country where ticks are all over the place, but, then, I'm just trying to poke.

And even completely resistant to the black death they'd still run into a disease like smallpox, which was pretty much a constant factor in Europe in this time, a third of the people got infected over their lifetime. That one did some nasty work when it finally got to America.

I didn't say "completely resistant."

And I assume smallpox will be a thing.

I assume diseases will be a constant problem.

In fact I said that dying from diseases, but still coming over until they overwhelmed the population was the colonization MO of the Europeans, and there is no reason, if the situation is reversed, that the reverse would somehow not magically be true.

For a game setting though I'm sure you can find a handwave. Smallpox by that later time had evolved to keep up in the war against European immune systems, and it turns out one of those adaptions was what made the disease so dangerous to Americans. Something like that.

The suggestion I'm making is that the American diseases eventually didn't make that much a difference in Europe - so why would an expansionist alternate, say, Iroquois or Mississippian or Mexica Triple civilization suddenly get stopped by stuff that didn't stop similarly aggressive Europeans?

Why imply that a colonization attempt by an expansionist Americas is doomed to failure?

Except for, you know. Obvious and unfortunate ones.