Results 781 to 810 of 1069
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2018-03-07, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
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- Brazil
- Gender
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
That's the point.
She IS entitled by default not to marry someone she doesn't want to!
People aren't entitled to other people's stuff!
That's the difference, right there! Her body is HERS, not other people's!
That's not a reasonable want. That's a basic right. And yes, people have the moral prerogative to do whatever it takes to ensure their rights are respected.
She's not asking for too much. She's not asking even for food. She's asking for the right to do as she sees fit with her own body and with her own life, while living, freely, in the place where she was born. That's not "wanting to be a billionaire". That's not "wanting to rob a bank". That's WANTING TO BE A SENTIENT PERSON. That's BASIC. That's not wanting to be horribly, horribly mistreated, high up there with anyone's right not to get effing tortured.
She shouldn't have to ask for the right to live life as she sees fit. She shouldn't have to beg for the right not to be married to someone she doesn't want to be. She has every moral right to do whatever she deems needed to ensure these her rights on that matter are respected, because bodily autonomy is a basic right of hers, and if that means upending the sick, twisted society where she lives, so much the better.
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2018-03-07, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Gender
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2018-03-07 at 11:55 AM.
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2018-03-07, 12:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
- Brazil
- Gender
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
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2018-03-07, 12:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
- Location
- Elemental Plane of Water
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
I feel like you are deliberately ignoring what I and others are saying. I am not arguing she doesn't have a right to her body. I am not arguing she should stay in a forced marriage. I am arguing against the part of your statement I bolded/italicized above: That the right to her body gives her a right to do ANYTHING she sees fit, including attempting to murder one innocent person (Ivan) and actually murdering another innocent person (Celia's friend in the first dungeon).
She didn't have to do either of those things; those things were not necessary to freeing her from her forced marriage (especially the second, and we can reasonably infer Ivan would not have stopped her had she just left). Those things are immoral acts that run counter to the rights she inherently possesses, and no amount of screaming "SHE HAS A RIGHT TO HER BODY!" changes the fact she does NOT have the right to murder innocent people.Last edited by The Aboleth; 2018-03-07 at 12:27 PM.
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2018-03-07, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
- Brazil
- Gender
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
I'm not claiming she had a right to kill Celia's friend. I'm claiming she has the right to do anything thar advances her goal of seeing her right to her body and to stay in her homeland respected. And murdering Ivan qualifies because, if she is a widow, she can stay in the dwarven lands instead of being forced to run away because the moron wouldn't die.
Killing Celia's friend, yes, that was wrong.
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2018-03-07, 12:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2018-03-07, 12:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
- Brazil
- Gender
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2018-03-07, 12:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
- Location
- Elemental Plane of Water
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
I strongly disagree with this.
Furthermore, you are operating off a big assumption that she would still be allowed to stay in Dwarven lands after literally murdering her husband. You're probably also assuming that she would get away with the murder, which I find highly unlikely.
But even then, that's all a moot point. We KNOW she didn't have to murder him in order to leave because she explicitly says she left AFTER the failed poisoning attempt. All that is required for her to escape the forced marriage is for her to leave -- Ivan will not stop her. She instead resorts to attempted murder as her FIRST option. This is morally wrong.
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2018-03-07, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2018-03-07, 01:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
- Brazil
- Gender
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2018-03-07, 01:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
You think you're defending her, but you know? You really aren't, any more than the "she's opposing her culture and she's bad so she did it for a bad reason" people are. You're robbing her of agency and reducing her to an automaton, a puppet that jumps (and puts poison in someone's food) when its strings are pulled.
Her attempt to murder Ivan took place for a number of reasons, but first and foremost, because she chose to attempt to murder Ivan.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2018-03-07, 01:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
- Location
- Elemental Plane of Water
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2018-03-07, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
- Gender
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
I think a better question would be Why this newest iteration, sweet merciful gods?
ungelic is us
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2018-03-07, 01:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2018-03-07, 01:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2018-03-07, 02:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
"Besides, you know the saying: Kill one, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Fishman
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2018-03-07, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
I myself am cis-male, but as the attempted murder stuff was pre-Cerebus, I'm inclined to take it with a grain of salt and judge Hilgya based on her actions now. She's clearly Chaotic, but I have insufficient evidence to definitively state the other part of her alignment at this time.
And even if she was capital-E Evil back then, people can change their outlook/priorities, especially after life-altering events (like childbirth.)Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2018-03-07, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2018-03-07, 02:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2018-03-07 at 02:56 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2018-03-07, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
- Gender
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2018-03-07, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2016
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
Is it possible we're being too literal with Hilgya? Are we sure there wasn't some missing context with the story about Ivan?
If the action was evil surely Durkon would have commented on it?
Killing a mook in a dungeon to achieve a party objective at the direction of your party leader surely isn't evil.
Finally, are we sure she would want to murder Durkon were he alive? Maybe it's more of a figure of speech that in her mind would lead to a reconciliation?
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2018-03-07, 03:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Gender
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2018-03-07, 03:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
Hardly the same situation. A more appropriate parallel would be to kill a non-threatening dungeon dweller not because it's in the way of the objective but because it offered you a service you didn't want, and yeah, that's pretty Evil. It is in fact Belkar's modus operandi to kill anyone in his way, or that at some unspecified point in the future might conceivably be in his way, and I don't see Hilgya objecting to such philosophy.
Grey WolfInterested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2018-03-07, 03:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
Holy what? That...may be the most extreme Lawful Evil perspective I've ever heard. "Yes, she killed a defenseless and good-aligned noncombatant as part of a vicious, egomaniacal serial killer's plan to increase his power, but it was a party objective and her victim was a mook!"
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2018-03-07, 04:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
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Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2018-03-07, 05:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
- Brazil
- Gender
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
Why wouldn't they?
1- She has a right not to be married to Ivan.
2- She has a right to stay in her homeland if she so wishes.
3- If they married her off at crossbow point, divorce is very likely not an option. The same goes for staying in her homelands once she left - as, I need to reiterate, was her right.
4- Thus, the most expedient way to ensure the rights alluded in 1 and 2 are respected is for her to become a widow.
5- And the most expedient way for Hilgya to become a widow is by her own actions.
And you're telling me NO ONE in that big clan could foresee that the woman they basically gave away would decide to do something about rights 1 and 2, rights that she, undoubtedly, indeed, has?
They marry her off at crossbow point and don't think that she might take any and all measures to reclaim her aforementioned rights (as, indeed, she should)?
Well, that lack of forethought is their responsibility, now, isn't it?
He knocked her up, she tried to contact him and failed, she likely assumed he was a deadbeat dad (all the more grating after the idiotic "doing your duty" speech, spoken by the Lawful Good guy that thought Ivan was a horrible person and wanted her to go back to him anyways). She may have been wrong on that count and being a deadbeat dad may not warrant murder, but absolutely nothing in the strip indicates Hilgya to operate, per your description, essentially like a rapist.
Y'know, like the usual husband in a forced marriage would. Ivan is an exception, not a rule, after all, and the clans more than likely couldn't care less.
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2018-03-07, 05:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2018-03-07, 05:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
- Brazil
- Gender
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
Okay: if you wanted to stay in your homeland and get away from that marriage - divorce or leaving isn't a solution while staying in your homeland, remember - how would you go about doing that?
You have a right to 1 and 2. You wish to have 1 and 2, as is your right. How would you, in her place, attain those?
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2018-03-07, 05:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
- Gender
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2018-03-07, 05:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
- Brazil
- Gender
Re: What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?
Divorce likely wasn't an option for him either. To be sure, if he weren't happy about it, he'd have the exact same right as Hilgya in this context - and the clans would be just as culpable were some horrid fate to befall her. He just happened to be the kind of guy that's happy about anything shiny.