What do female readers think of Hilgya Firehelm?

[Dragonus45]

You know I am reminded of several statements by Gillian Flynn where she has talked about all the flak she catches when she has some genuinely purely evil women in her books.

[Darth Paul]

A character in Terry Pratchett's "Jingo" tells protagonist Sam Vimes, who worries about being a racist, "Treat everyone truly as equals. Give all men the right to be evil, scheming bastards." (Or words to that effect.)

Can we apply the same rationale here, and allow a female character to be driven by an irrational hatred, just as we allowed Nale to be driven by jealousy of his brother and hatred for his father? Why are we bothered when a female villain is subject to the same emotions as a male villain?

[The Vanishing Hitchhiker]

I’m puzzled why so many people seem to think Hilgya even wanted to contact Durkon, or wants him to help raise the child. If she doesn’t trust Thor flunkies as babysitters, why would she want a Thor seasoned-adventurer as the kid’s father? (Actually, contacting him and saying “hey meet your kid” would have been a quick way to track him down; if only she had an accurate read on him.) In any case, “been praying to Loki every night” for his location seems to suggest she couldn’t find it on her own for some reason. Could be something as silly as never having enough spell slots left at the end of the day. Maybe she didn’t start looking for him until very recently—that is, for a certain value of been praying every night. Does Sending work for souls trapped by vampires?

As for my general thoughts on Hilgya: I’m enjoying the nostalgia blast of continuity, and have redoubled my efforts to get my wife to catch up on the comic because Durkula vs. Hilgya seems like a fun cosplay duo. Maybe it’s the true neutral in me, but I’m not too hung up on her alignment—Evil seems a hair more likely than Neutral to me due to Nale’s original recruitment schtick, though. I’m not too fussed about the trope boxes she ticks either, both because she’s only been in a few new strips so far so even conjecture is up in the air, and because this comic has had well-written characters and a variety of personalities for each gender. In sum, I’m enjoying the ride so far (though I don’t think the biological potential for being knocked up personally gives me any special insight on Hilgya over anyone else...others might have stronger opinions, though).

[KorvinStarmast]

FWIW, between conception and Malack drinking the life from Durkon, there are about 15-16 game months based on some responses to my questions about the time line. If there was a cloister over Azure City during the lead up to the War with Xykon and Redcloak, one could argue that bad timing might account for some Sendings from Hilgya to Durkon being blocked, but the whole time he's at sea there's no reason that would be the case, likewise in the BRiTF story line.

The opportunities are thus there, so "why would she want to contact him" is a question well asked since (so far) there is no in strip evidence that such contact was initiated. As noted in another thread, there is ample room for Durkon to have a flashback to contact from Hilgya that he ignored/did not respond to ... so that's a "we'll see" deal.

[Darth Paul]

As seen in 484, the Cloister spell wasn't cast over Azure City until after the invasion was over, at the end of War and XPs. Durkon was already sailing away on Hinjo's junk (heh... junk) at that time. There's some other explanation for why Hilgya couldn't contact him, we'll learn it in due course.

(For my money, since Hilgya's avowedly out to murder Durkon, she didn't even try to contact him. She has been praying to Loki for his location, but she didn't want him to have any hint that she was coming.)

[KorvinStarmast]

(For my money, since Hilgya's avowedly out to murder Durkon, she didn't even try to contact him. She has been praying to Loki for his location, but she didn't want him to have any hint that she was coming.)

That certainly fits the information so far presented.

[King of Nowhere]

quite unrelated, but

being knocked up

so being knocked up means getting pregnant? Now I realize I've never understood the pun kazumi made when attacked by ninjas! All this time I just assumed it meant that she would get angry or something similar.

[Kish]

If you're American, it means getting pregnant, yes.

If you're British, it means being woken out of a sleep.

May cause awkwardness if someone who's familiar with American slang but not British slang is told "I'll knock you up tomorrow morning."

[KorvinStarmast]

If you're American, it means getting pregnant, yes.

If you're British, it means being woken out of a sleep.

May cause awkwardness if someone who's familiar with American slang but not British slang is told "I'll knock you up tomorrow morning."

As I had it explained to me (a bit over 20 years ago) :
I'll ring you up meant "I'll call you on the phone" and
I'll knock you up meant "I'll come by and knock on your door."

Not sure if that has changed.

[Liquor Box]

If you're American, it means getting pregnant, yes.

If you're British, it means being woken out of a sleep.

May cause awkwardness if someone who's familiar with American slang but not British slang is told "I'll knock you up tomorrow morning."

There's a well known American movie that uses the term int he American sense in its title. I suspect most non-American English speakers understand the American use of this term. Hollywood - breaking down language barriers.

[Manga Shoggoth]

I'll knock you up meant "I'll come by and knock on your door."

Pretty much, although I suspect we are more used to "knocked up" meaning pregnant. I only ever came across the "knocking on someone's door" version in a Wimsey novel (Gaudy Night, if I remember correctly). It may vary around the country.

[The Vanishing Hitchhiker]

As seen in 484, the Cloister spell wasn't cast over Azure City until after the invasion was over, at the end of War and XPs. Durkon was already sailing away on Hinjo's junk (heh... junk) at that time. There's some other explanation for why Hilgya couldn't contact him, we'll learn it in due course.

(For my money, since Hilgya's avowedly out to murder Durkon, she didn't even try to contact him. She has been praying to Loki for his location, but she didn't want him to have any hint that she was coming.)

I agree. If she did try to contact him at all, my money’s on it being precisely during Girard’s happy ending illusion, unless someone thinks of something even funnier.

[Ruck]

(For my money, since Hilgya's avowedly out to murder Durkon, she didn't even try to contact him. She has been praying to Loki for his location, but she didn't want him to have any hint that she was coming.)

Yeah, I was thinking about this earlier today, and I think this is more likely. We see Hilgya quite jumps to conclusions and has a different view of reality than most; I'm not surprised she jumped straight to "murder" for someone who sent her away and got her pregnant. I mean, she tried to kill her husband for "annoying questions."

[Emanick]

I've been trying to remember whether the Order was scryed on by anyone (besides Eugene in heaven) in the months following their time in the Dungeon of Dorukan, and I can't. If not, it's possible that Xykon cast Cloister between when they entered the Dungeon and when they left, and that Hilgya, upon becoming pregnant, tried to contact Durkon and couldn't. That would make her rage against him significantly less baseless.

[zimmerwald1915]

I've been trying to remember whether the Order was scryed on by anyone (besides Eugene in heaven) in the months following their time in the Dungeon of Dorukan, and I can't. If not, it's possible that Xykon cast Cloister between when they entered the Dungeon and when they left, and that Hilgya, upon becoming pregnant, tried to contact Durkon and couldn't. That would make her rage against him significantly less baseless.

Well, let's see, there were Zz'dtri (via spell) and Xykon (via crystal ball) that we know of, and possibly the Ancient Black Dragon as well.

[Emanick]

Well, let's see, there were Zz'dtri (via spell) and Xykon (via crystal ball) that we know of, and possibly the Ancient Black Dragon as well.

Those events probably took place more than 5-7 months after their time in the dungeon, though, right? If so, they likely don't say anything about whether Cloister was cast on Durkon. (I think we know for sure that it took that long for the ABD to find the Order, since we know roughly when she showed up at the Oracle to ask how to find her son's murderers.)

Did anyone from Azure City ever scry on the Order following the destruction of the Redmountain Gate? That's who I was mostly wondering about.

[goodpeople25]

I'm not sure about Scryings, but when it came up eariler my thoughts were on Nale's Sendings to Roy, was that more than 21 weeks?

[QuietEngineer25]

Yes. In comic #292, it's shown that they scryed on the order directly after the explosion.

[Kish]

Is it? Eugene says the scrying sensor was examining the wreckage. If anything that looks like a point in favor of "they couldn't scry directly on the Order, only scry the scene and then rely on Eugene for specific information about the adventurers involved."

[Chronos]

Cloister affects both terrain and people. If there had been a Cloister spell in effect, the Azurites couldn't have scried the Gate wreckage, either.

I'm guessing it's as simple as "she never tried to contact Durkon".

[MesiDoomstalker]

Is it? Eugene says the scrying sensor was examining the wreckage. If anything that looks like a point in favor of "they couldn't scry directly on the Order, only scry the scene and then rely on Eugene for specific information about the adventurers involved."

You can't scry on someone without knowing who they are. "The culprits responsible for the destruction of Dorukon's Gate" is insufficient.

[DaggerPen]

Actually, the bonus comic explaining it in BRitF clarifies that Z was explicitly targeting Mr. Scruffy for scrying.

Spoiler: BRitF Exact Quote

Show

Qarr: Remember, just like I told you: scry on the housecat! It has a weaker mind, so it should be easier to get a clear image of where they are.

However, this happened after Cloister wore off anyway (recall that an Azure City cleric was able to Send to Haley, who left the Cloister effect at the same time as Mr. Scruffy and Belkar), so it's a moot point.

[Goblin_Priest]

Her situation is arguably something that women can understand better, because men never have to worry about dealing with the consequences of an unplanned pregnancy after their romantic partner abandons them. (NB: Durkon "abandoning" Hilgya is an uncharitable way of putting it, but it seems to reflect Hilgya's view of the matter and is technically accurate.)

Wait, what? Never heard of alimony?

Men are the only ones who have to worry about dealing with the consequences of an unplanned child, because, unless you live in some uncivilized third-world country, women are the only ones with the power to decide whether an unforeseen pregnancy will run its course or not. A woman is 100% entitled to decide if she wants to become a mother or not, she can decide to opt out, a man cannot.

To say Durkon abandoned her... is ridiculous. They had a fling, and he told her to return to her spouse (not to go live alone). He never expressed intent for her to rise a child alone. Hilgya's view on the matter is irrelevant, because we know her for a fact to be delusional and for her facts to be wrong.

[Emanick]

Wait, what? Never heard of alimony?

Men are the only ones who have to worry about dealing with the consequences of an unplanned child, because, unless you live in some uncivilized third-world country, women are the only ones with the power to decide whether an unforeseen pregnancy will run its course or not. A woman is 100% entitled to decide if she wants to become a mother or not, she can decide to opt out, a man cannot.

To say Durkon abandoned her... is ridiculous. They had a fling, and he told her to return to her spouse (not to go live alone). He never expressed intent for her to rise a child alone. Hilgya's view on the matter is irrelevant, because we know her for a fact to be delusional and for her facts to be wrong.

Many people do not consider abortion an acceptable option, for a number of reasons. But let’s not get into that discussion.

In any case, I agree that Durkon bears no real blame here; I specifically noted that it was putting it uncharitably to say he “abandoned” her.

[Ruck]

Wait, what? Never heard of alimony?

Men are the only ones who have to worry about dealing with the consequences of an unplanned child, because, unless you live in some uncivilized third-world country, women are the only ones with the power to decide whether an unforeseen pregnancy will run its course or not. A woman is 100% entitled to decide if she wants to become a mother or not, she can decide to opt out, a man cannot.

That is extremely not true. I don't think I can go further without crossing into real world discussion, but ask a woman about this sometime.

[Mad Humanist]

.....but ask a woman...

Congratulations on getting this back on topic.

[King of Nowhere]

goblin priest was not very diplomatic, but he has a good point. today in developed nations men face consequences for unplanned pregnancies as much as women. they are different kind of consequences, but they have a deep personal impact nonetheless.
As for abortion being unacceptable for some women, the fact remains that men don't get to choose about it anyway.

We have no idea if there are alimony laws in the world of oots. But considering hilgya was trying to kill her husband for "being annoying", and that she has level appropriate wealth anyway, i doubt she'd be much interested in appealing to them.

[The Vanishing Hitchhiker]

Men are the only ones who have to worry about dealing with the consequences of an unplanned child, because, unless you live in some uncivilized third-world country, women are the only ones with the power to decide whether an unforeseen pregnancy will run its course or not. A woman is 100% entitled to decide if she wants to become a mother or not, she can decide to opt out, a man cannot.

Quoting your post because I ended up mostly addressing it anyway.

For one, I think it’s non-controversial enough to cop that the child-bearer is the one who has to deal with the health-related consequences of pregnancy. “Men are the only ones who have to worry” is simply poorly worded, since it implies you can always track down the person who owes child support* and that they’ll pay, and that the person receiving child support for the child they’re raising is then freed of the burden of responsibility.

Also, deciding whether to end a pregnancy or not isn’t free of all concerns. Even in a theoretical society where it would bear no financial burden and no social stigma, it can be a tough decision that takes a psychological toll.

King of Nowere put it best, I think—there are societies where the responsibility is shared. I’m still not convinced Hilgya ever really wanted that, however.

*alimony is a divorce thing, and I think specifically for the spouse, not a kid

[Liquor Box]

I think the last couple of posts have the right of it. In most modern societies both parents will almost always have to take some responsibility for the birth of a child.

Biology may give the woman some greater degree of choice as to whether the pregnancy proceeds (although there may be outside pressures on that choice) and biology may see the woman bear the physical consequences of the pregnancy, but there are certainly obligations on both parents that come home to bear in the overwhelming majority of cases.

[Tanngrisnir]

. . . because men never have to worry about dealing with the consequences of an unplanned pregnancy after their romantic partner abandons them . . .

Just wanted to chime in and say that this isn't actually true. A good friend of mine was an unplanned child, and roughly 2 weeks after he was born his mother walked out on both him and his father, leaving his father to raise him alone.