Surprisingly, Star Wars: Episode I is not Actually THAT Bad

[brionl]

What really wrecked the movie was the writing around young Anakin. The badly-conceived messianic notes mixed with the age difference between him and Padme (and the budding of a very one-sided and underage romance, ugh).

It's not that unusual to have a crush on the babysitter. It's just that all of the emotional scenes between Anakin and Padme were so badly written in all 3 movies.

[Velaryon]

It's not that unusual to have a crush on the babysitter. It's just that all of the emotional scenes between Anakin and Padme were so badly written in all 3 movies.

And also that the actors had absolutely no chemistry with one another.

[Peelee]

Ok, from a narrative standpoint, I agree. It's true that TPM has the plot elements a little messed up, and it's detrimental for the quality of the movie. But again, when it comes down to mooks, it's not that of a big deal or a difference anyway. Mooks are still mooks. Even when the narrative implies the Stormtroopers are a "big deal"; not a single time the stormtroopers become an actual obstacle to the main characters. They help moving the plot but they are never faced down; and whenever Luke & co. run away from the Empire, it's certainly NOT because the stormtroopers are a problem, but because they have better things to do than to take down every mook on sight (e.g: go to Alderaan ASAP, take the hostage to somewhere safe, etc.). I agree Stormtroopers are handled better in ANH (most plot elements are handled better anyway) where I disagree is that they ever become an obstacle the heroes need to face. They are never an issue (unlike the trash-compactor, the rancor, etc)

Stormtroopers shoot Leia on the Tantive IV. Stormtroopers chase Han, Leia, and Luke throughout the Death Star. Stormtroopers are opening the door to the bridge that Leia and Luke are trapped on, forcing them to use a grappling hook to cross the chasm (now, if you want to talk about nonsensical stuff in ANH, why in holy hell does a moisture farmer on a desert world have a grappling hook in his belt?). The stormtroopers very likely chase the separated party strategically to herd them back to regroup and get to their ship, because again, once the main characters are on the Death Star, they are explicitly let go to track them to the rebel base.

Th trash compactor and dianoga are stupid threats, because they come from nowhere, and are not really dealt with by the main characters (especially the dianoga).

A blockade is barely ever meant to be a total blockade. It's simply not worth the effort for most conflicts. Naboo was kind of a backwater planet with little relevance for the core of the galaxy; and the TF was well aware the Senate wouldn't help them (otherwise, why risk a war conflict in the first place). Whether the queen was on the planet or not was irrelevant. But outright killing her was absolutely counterproductive. If she didn't sign on Coruscant, she wouldn't sign on the planet either. She was obviously ready to sacrifice herself if needed to; so coercion was the only logical option for the TF.


In any space-fantasy setting worth my time, head of state vehicles should be better than the Popemobile. For ships, they should be at least state-of-the-art level of fanciness, IMO.

This seems incredibly contradictory; Naboo is established as a backwater planet, which you yourself agree, but they should have at least state-of-the-art level fanciness? That doesn't seem a disjointed? The King of Thirdworldia doesn't fly around in the too-of-the-line Air Force One, no matter the setting.

[Vinyadan]

Plot point: Someone brought up what happened to the civilian population of Theed. If I recall correctly, the Princess received a (probably faked, but not lying in this aspect) report from her governor that the civilian population had been rounded up and placed in concentration camps with inadequate food and a 'catastrophic' death tool. She herself was destined for "Camp Four" before Qui-Gonn and Obi-wan rescued her party.

For some reason, Lucas decided that Auschwitz was a little too intense for a children's movie. I agree.

He didn't need to go Nazi on this, though. Even just the deprivation of liberty is bad. Food rationing is bad. The blockade keeping meds from being imported.

I think that the biggest reason, if showing Nabootes was deliberately discarded (of which I am not sure, the idea simply might never have come up), is that it would have thematically overlapped with the second act on Tatooine. You know, slaves and things. Loss of personal freedom.

[Rogar Demonblud]

and a 'catastrophic' death tool.

Nit pick alert: that's 'Death Toll'.

[pendell]

Nit pick alert: that's 'Death Toll'.

Noted and corrected.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Keltest]

(now, if you want to talk about nonsensical stuff in ANH, why in holy hell does a moisture farmer on a desert world have a grappling hook in his belt?)

That's actually the belt from the stormtrooper armor he took.

[Peelee]

That's actually the belt from the stormtrooper armor he took.

Huh. I never noticed that. Thanks!

[Malimar]

the music

Out of John Williams's entire illustrious career, I think Duel of the Fates is his crowning achievement.

[Lord Joeltion]

Stormtroopers shoot Leia on the Tantive IV. Stormtroopers chase Han, Leia, and Luke throughout the Death Star. Stormtroopers are opening the door to the bridge that Leia and Luke are trapped on, forcing them to use a grappling hook to cross the chasm (now, if you want to talk about nonsensical stuff in ANH, why in holy hell does a moisture farmer on a desert world have a grappling hook in his belt?). The stormtroopers very likely chase the separated party strategically to herd them back to regroup and get to their ship, because again, once the main characters are on the Death Star, they are explicitly let go to track them to the rebel base.

I think you are simply giving them away too much credit. They needed to escape the DS, stormtroopers or not. Sure, Leia was captured by stormtroopers alone... wait, not there was Lord Vader there to command them. And a capital ship for support! Funny enough, from my perspective the chase looked more dangerous by itself than any of the trooper with blasters were before that.

Th trash compactor and dianoga are stupid threats, because they come from nowhere, and are not really dealt with by the main characters (especially the dianoga).

Stupid or not, those are dangers that can't be trivialised either by the heroes or the viewer. Those are moments where we actually feel the party is in peril. Every time they fight stormtroopers back? Not so much.

This seems incredibly contradictory; Naboo is established as a backwater planet, which you yourself agree, but they should have at least state-of-the-art level fanciness? That doesn't seem a disjointed? The King of Thirdworldia doesn't fly around in the too-of-the-line Air Force One, no matter the setting.

I don't see the contradiction. Nobody said Naboo wasn't rich or that is was poverty-ridden like Tatooine. FWIW, they could be the Galaxy Finland: Nobody cares about the country or its resources, but everyone is envious of their living standards. Well, at least I wanna live there

Point being, Naboo isn't poor. In fact, it should be relevant for the region enough for the TF to care about the signing of a treaty with them. But just because they are economically/politically relevant on the small scale that doesn't mean they should be relevant for the galaxy as a whole. Also, just because they live well, that doesn't imply their army is the best of the galaxy (curiously, in EU it's explained that their ships are very good quality). Or that they have a functional army anyway. Whatever the case, by "state-of-the-art" I wasn't referring for the Galaxy scope; I meant that a nation would put most of their expenses in protecting their head of state. Even if Nabooian (?) ships aren't the best (according to EU they are good enough) I would expect the Royal Insignia to be the best single ship in the whole planet. Otherwise, they would be doing it wrong.

That's actually the belt from the stormtrooper armor he took.

Actually, I never realized that. Nice to know

[Vinyadan]

The crusher is actually very important. It's used as an example in screenplay manuals. It represents the lowest point (the worm, Luke being apparently dead), followed by "resurrection" (Luke reemeeges) and a fight with death that wants its stuff back (the crusher). And the heroes actually have to work hard to save themselves, and they survive because Luke gives the right instructions to R2.

[Sapphire Guard]

Naboo seems to be uniquely placed to be where something like this could happen, it's poorly armed, rich, and remote, the perfect place for somewhere like the TF to pull something like this.

They also managed to kill people on camera, which the droids never did, IIRC.

Untrue. They kill some of Padme's guards, and Gungans.

The head of State's personal craft is a perfect blockade runner, it's likely to be well armoured, fast, and unarmed. A tank is a bad blockade runner, it's too slow. 'Get away from trouble' and 'tank hits' are the first things a head of state's craft needs to be able to do, and Naboo does seem to be conscious of the safety of their monarch (hidden gun in Throne room, all those body doubles), especially when they're close to places like Tattooine and piracy is a thing.

The treaty's not relevant until the invasion starts, its purpose is to retroactively legitimise the invasion.

The age difference is only five years, it's not like she was grooming him. It's also just a onesided semi crush in this film that doesn't go anywhere until at least ten years later.

I'm not seeing a super significant difference between stormtroopers and B1s, the droids are a bit more comedically played, but it doesn't get out of hand until the cartoons. Both of them are only dangerous in numbers.

[Vinyadan]

So the Trade Federation invaded Liechtenstein. Uh.

[Keltest]

So the Trade Federation invaded Liechtenstein. Uh.

Well theyre trying to make a political point, not take over the galaxy.

[Leewei]

It's not that unusual to have a crush on the babysitter. It's just that all of the emotional scenes between Anakin and Padme were so badly written in all 3 movies.

Anakin crushing on Padme wouldn't have bothered me. What I saw on the screen got squicky, though. And while you're absolutely right regarding chemistry, I can't help but think that would have made it worse.

[Forum Explorer]

The guards that weren't present for the rest of the blockade? What was stopping her from doing anything before the invasion? Or during the invasion, when you only see dropships coming down?

Unless she doesn't sign, of course. It's not like she didn't have that option, and chose things like nearly dying to avoid signing it.

Also, yeah, head of state vehicles are armored and can move. They are not designed to run through military blockades. I'm pretty sure tank beats Popemobile.

Sure, because on Earth our offense almost always beats our defensive capabilities. I mean soldiers all wear body armor and they still usually die to getting shot.

Or in other words, tanks lose to tanks shooting them.

It's not really the case in Star Wars. Kinda. But shields at least are really strong and can take a fair bit of abuse. And ships move fast too, so they are hard to hit, well protected, and can got FTL to get away.

A better question is why didn't the TF have any tractor beams?

[Darth Ultron]

The age difference is only five years, it's not like she was grooming him. It's also just a onesided semi crush in this film that doesn't go anywhere until at least ten years later.

I guess Lucas was obsessed with the idea that Anikin needed to be ''a cute little boy''. Really it would have made a lot more sense if he was at least a teen.

Maybe Lucas as a typical Out-of-Touch Old Person, thought that ''little kids everywhere'' would have loved seeing a ''little kid'' in a Star Wars movie going ''pew pew'' just like an adult.

[Velaryon]

The age difference is only five years, it's not like she was grooming him. It's also just a onesided semi crush in this film that doesn't go anywhere until at least ten years later.

True, but five years is a BIG difference at that age: 9 years vs. 14 years. Also, it doesn't help that the 9 year-old is played by an actual 9 year-old actor while the 14 year-old is played by an 18 year-old actress, thus having nearly double the age difference of the actual characters.

They really should have either cast a younger Padmé or an older Anakin in Episode 1.

[Rogar Demonblud]

My vote is older Anakin. It'd make those fighter scenes less painful to watch.

[brionl]

Anakin crushing on Padme wouldn't have bothered me. What I saw on the screen got squicky, though. And while you're absolutely right regarding chemistry, I can't help but think that would have made it worse.

In what way? I never got the idea that Padme was interested in Anakin at all, or anything other than amused/annoyed.

Later, 19 vs 24 not a big deal. But still, badly acted and worsely written.

[Bohandas]

True, but five years is a BIG difference at that age: 9 years vs. 14 years. Also, it doesn't help that the 9 year-old is played by an actual 9 year-old actor while the 14 year-old is played by an 18 year-old actress, thus having nearly double the age difference of the actual characters.

They really should have either cast a younger Padmé or an older Anakin in Episode 1.

They definitely needed to do at least one. Possibly both.

[truemane]

The crusher is actually very important. It's used as an example in screenplay manuals. It represents the lowest point (the worm, Luke being apparently dead), followed by "resurrection" (Luke reemeeges) and a fight with death that wants its stuff back (the crusher). And the heroes actually have to work hard to save themselves, and they survive because Luke gives the right instructions to R2.

Well, and it's important to realize that Lucas wrote EPIV as a sort of homage to Flash Gordon serials*. So the randomness and lack of narrative flow-through is sort of the point. The crusher and the worm (and the grappling hook and the incompetent Stormtroopers and, well, most of it really) was very much in line with the 15-minutes-of-danger-per-week genre of storytelling that he was explicitly alluding to.

(*and Akira Kurosawa's the Hidden Fortress)

[Lethologica]

I think Qui-Gon fills Old Ben role in ANH, other than prep up the heroes and assuring their survival, he doesn't need any character growth.

True. But around half of Qui-Gon's fulfillment of that role relates to midichlorians and/or the prophecy, which rather drags him down.

So... one could say he is the Han Solo of the Phantom Menace (?)

With half a movie's worth of non-entity tacked on, perhaps. The difference is, that's still enough to put Obi-Wan well ahead of the pack in TPM; Solo, not so much.

[Tvtyrant]

My vote is older Anakin. It'd make those fighter scenes less painful to watch.

I wrote a fan fiction once where Anakin was a 16 year old pit fighter instead of a pod racer, and the reason he was into Padme is she was the only woman he got close to as he was a pit slave first and then a jedi.

He also is much more Alexander the Great then in the movies.

[warty goblin]

Sure, because on Earth our offense almost always beats our defensive capabilities. I mean soldiers all wear body armor and they still usually die to getting shot.

Or in other words, tanks lose to tanks shooting them.

It's not really the case in Star Wars. Kinda. But shields at least are really strong and can take a fair bit of abuse. And ships move fast too, so they are hard to hit, well protected, and can got FTL to get away.

A better question is why didn't the TF have any tractor beams?

Outside of A New Hope, does anybody in Star Wars ever have tractor beams?

(Answer: of course not. If the tractor beam was anything more than a plot devise to get the heroes temporarily captured, they'd tractor beam all those little rebel fighters and shoot them like fish in a barrel)

[Keltest]

Outside of A New Hope, does anybody in Star Wars ever have tractor beams?

(Answer: of course not. If the tractor beam was anything more than a plot devise to get the heroes temporarily captured, they'd tractor beam all those little rebel fighters and shoot them like fish in a barrel)

I think they mention having a tractor beam in Empire Strikes Back when the Falcon evades them. Theyre within seconds of locking on them when the Falcon re-engages light speed.

[pendell]

Outside of A New Hope, does anybody in Star Wars ever have tractor beams?

(Answer: of course not. If the tractor beam was anything more than a plot devise to get the heroes temporarily captured, they'd tractor beam all those little rebel fighters and shoot them like fish in a barrel)

This occurs in the TIE Fighter video game. In later missions your more advanced craft are outfitted with a tractor beam. While not powerful enough to reel another fighter in, it does prevent them from maneuvering. They then fly in a straight line while you casually line up behind them, lock on dual missiles, and blow them to bits.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Sapphire Guard]

They seem to be not much use unless a ship is taken by surprise or otherwise disabled. They did have to damage the Tantive IV enough to reel it in.

[georgie_leech]

They seem to be not much use unless a ship is taken by surprise or otherwise disabled. They did have to damage the Tantive IV enough to reel it in.

I mean, I'm not going to criticize cavalry for not capturing ships barring unusual circumstances