Fantasy Ecology

[GalacticAxekick]

One thing I like to think about is how D&D creatures would fit into a setting's ecology: what selective pressures would give them the abilities they have, and what abilities logically follow. In particular, I've thought a lot about humanoids, but the same fun can be had with any creatures that reproduce.

Humanoids are not closely related. Like dogs and thylacines, deer and antelopes, fish and whales, and so on, the humanoid body plan evolved several times amongst different creatures to fill the niche; with powerful legs, flexible arms and prehensile hands, humanoids can walk, run, climb, swim, and forge tools to adapt within, rather than between, generations. This affords all humanoids a rich, omnivorous diet, which itself supports all humanoids' intelligence and social skills. Despite differences, this shared chassis has earned science, wizardry, religion and culture to all humanoid races, and a variety within each race.

But about those differences:

Spoiler: Humanity

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Humans, despite being the humanoid groups' namesake, are not average. Firstly, we possess tremendous endurance far above more nimble or powerful races. What's more, we can eat practically anything, and even live as herbivores or and near-carnivores. It's these traits have given humans successful industries and conquests worldwide.

Halflings evolved independently on several occasions when human populations forcibly isolated. With small size fit for an island, cave, oasis or mountain's scarce resources, endurance lost to generations of short walks, and a diet restricted to include only the local options, halflings lack everything that helps humans realize their ambitions. Instead, however, halflings evolved the courage and long lifespan of a species with no enemies but old age. They are also, of course, subtle and nimble.

Spoiler: Goblinoids

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Goblinoids are humanity's most bitter enemy for the simple reason that they are too much alike: that they are competition. Like humans, hobgoblinsevolved an extreme omnivorism and relentless endurance that fuel constant, violent expansion and consumption. Like halflings, goblins evolved a fearlessness and nimbleness that frames them as the frequent accomplices or subordinates of their cousins. Both groups are, of course, oblivious to the fact that their greatest enemies are the races who best resemble themselves.

There are, however, some key differences between the races. While humanity is diurnal, goblinoids are nocturnal with robust darkvision. But like many mammals, goblinoids are colourblind and unable to tell reds from greens; a red hobgoblin, like an orange tiger, can hide in green bushes. Like most animals, goblinoids do not blush or smile to emote, nor do seek or acknowledge eye contact.

Finally, and curiously, humanity and goblinoids are the only races to have domesticated wolves, but each consider the other's creation monstrous. Both humanity's dogs and goblinoids' wargs have been bred to share their masters' omnivorism, but dogs developed diurnalism, smiling, and eye contact, while wargs grew in size and learned to carry riders.

Spoiler: Fey

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Elves stand out in a few ways. With short, shallow, crepescular sleeps, darkvision, keen senses, and a barely omnivorous, mostly herbivorous diet, they have the makings of a flighty prey species more than anything. More notably, though, elves evolved from fey, which affords them innate, sorcerous magic. It's because of these arcane defenses that elves are shorter and slighter than other humanoids.

All elves are resistant to charms and immune to forced sleep: threats unheard of in the animal kingdom but common in the feywild. Wood elves evolved mundane and magical magical camouflage, which allows them to disappear into any natural surrounding. Dark elves and high elves, on the other hand, can cast spells that debilitate their enemies, reveal them from hiding, or harm them outright.

Because dark and high elf defenses are costly for both the elf (in terms of energy) and their aggressor (in terms of wounds), it's advantageous for advertise them and prevent fights altogether. Dark elves evolved the reverse countershading of a skunk or badger while high elves evolved the bright colours of a poisonous frog or venous snake.

It would seem that Gnomes are to elves what halflings are to humans and goblins are to hobgoblins: insular dwarves. The opposite is true. As fey, insular elves dwarfed in magical power rather than physical size. Gnomes retain magical resistance, innate illusions, communion with nature and enhanced intelligence of their fey ancestors. They are, unfortunately, better adapted for the feywild than the mortal realm.

Spoiler: Orcs

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Orcs are the elf's most bitter enemy, once again for the simple reason that they are too much alike. Like elves, orcs are crepescular near-herbavores best compared to prey animals. And despite being far bulkier, toothier and greener than elves, these traits serve the same purpose as the innate magical attacks and disguises elves possess. Like deer against buffalo, the two compete for similar lifestyles and resources.

Dwarves pending. I don't know a thing about underground ecosystems.

[Balyano]

I always have the elves as very very carnivorous.
High dex, darkvision, keen senses, skilled with a bow, takes short catnaps. All these things say to me "stealthy predator" kind of like cats in a lot of ways. Additionally think about those ears. Pointed, perhaps because the muscles that move their ears are strong and well developed. Having the ability to move their ears might help with locating a prey animal that is hiding behind some undergrowth. In older editions they got to notice hidden doors. Sounds to me like an adaptation that originated as a way to find the burrows and dens of potential food. If not natural hunters....why do they use that bow so much? For a hunter culture it makes sense that it would be important to them....but an herbivore? And what sort of herbivore would have such a slender waist, shouldn't they have a big gut like an ape? It's not like forests are filled to the brim with high calorie plants. You have a few options, nuts and fruit, maybe some honey? If that's the case then they would guard those oaks and walnuts and persimmons and such ferociously.

[brian 333]

My campaign world came about via divine creation, so it's inhabitants are the product of intelligent, if at times bizarre, design. Rather than deal with ecological pressures and evolution, my creatures exist because some powerful being wanted them to.

My ecologies begin with a prolific breed of high protein amaranth which grows in virtually any soil from lush river valleys to the margins of salt pans. This basic food source sustains the multitudes of herbivores which sustain the predators which the party faces.

Thus dwarves look like dwarves because the dwarf god likes it that way. The various hybrids, such as half elves and half orcs, can be born because conception has nothing to do with DNA and everything to do with magic.

Making your campaign world 'make sense scientifically' may actually detract from the high fantasy feeling I want in my campaigns. Once we accept that our imagined world operates on a magical kind of logic, we must accept that the rules of our mundane world serve as nothing more than a touchstone to lend familiarity to an outlandish setting. A species blessed and protected by a divinity succeeds where one lacking such benefits fails. Evolution has nothing to do with it and therefore ecological and environmental factors play little or no role in determining what constitutes a successful creation.


Plus, everyone knows elves are vegetables, not animals, and that all good orc children eat all their elf before they ask for their dessert.

[Nifft]

Spoiler: Orcs

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Orcs are the elf's most bitter enemy, once again for the simple reason that they are too much alike. Like elves, orcs are crepescular near-herbavores best compared to prey animals. And despite being far bulkier, toothier and greener than elves, these traits serve the same purpose as the innate magical attacks and disguises elves possess. Like deer against buffalo, the two compete for similar lifestyles and resources.

Dwarves pending. I don't know a thing about underground ecosystems.

Player: "I'm really not okay with using Orcs as a designated evil race. They're just people li--"

DM: "Sorry to interrupt, but you should know Orcs are all vegan."

Player: "... fine, Orcs are my favored enemy."

== == ==

Regarding "underground ecosystems", you'd probably want more fantasy elements than reality.

IRL life only exists where an energy source provides constant fuel for life. Caves can support life when there's a steady flow of nutrition from the surface, for example bat droppings can support cave-bugs but only because the bats leave to eat out every day. The sun is a great source of fuel; there are some deep-sea thermal vents which can support life in a sunless world, but they don't provide the same scale of energy.

Perhaps Dwarves are piezoelectric and can extract energy from the heat differential between liquid magma and nice cold iron. When they're out on the surface, they "eat" by soaking their feet in the campfire, and their hands in a river. Their "wiry beards" are actually organic copper heat-sinks. They love gold because it's a great thermal conductor -- like dragons, they enjoy sleeping on it for its dissipative properties.

[Mechalich]

Humanoids are not closely related. Like dogs and thylacines, deer and antelopes, fish and whales, and so on, the humanoid body plan evolved several times amongst different creatures to fill the niche; with powerful legs, flexible arms and prehensile hands, humanoids can walk, run, climb, swim, and forge tools to adapt within, rather than between, generations. This affords all humanoids a rich, omnivorous diet, which itself supports all humanoids' intelligence and social skills. Despite differences, this shared chassis has earned science, wizardry, religion and culture to all humanoid races, and a variety within each race.

You say this, but there is nothing in your species descriptions suggesting what else these other humanoids possess as ancestors. You're hitting on a central problem of treating fantasy species in this fashion: all of the standards are basically funny humans (especially internally, never mind a few external variants) and would fit fairly comfortably within the Tribe Hominini - which includes all currently known human relatives closer than Chimpanzees. That's not a problem, exactly, the Hominini is actually a fairly diverse group and you can certainly get vegetarian elves (from a heavy chewing source like Paranthropus) or vegetarian orcs (which are largely humans with some cranial and dental adjustments anyway, like Neanderthals) and so forth out of it, but that's not going to represent widespread convergence among varied lineages on the tree of life. If you're going to do that you have to go much broader.

If you're looking at humanoid body plans emerging independently then you have a few factors to consider. You need the potential to be bipedal and the possibility of grasping hands. There are a number of possibilities within the mammals: bears, koalas, macropod marsupials, mustelids, pangolins, sloths, and potentially rodents; but beyond that it's going to get pretty sparse. Theropod dinosaurs are an option to produce some sort of lizardfolk. Iguanas too, and certain archiac arcosaurs if you push it.

[GalacticAxekick]

Spoiler: Balyano

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I always have the elves as very very carnivorous.
High dex, darkvision, keen senses, skilled with a bow, takes short catnaps. All these things say to me "stealthy predator" kind of like cats in a lot of ways.

I hadn't thought of this! The dex, darkvision, keen senses and short sleeps go either way, because systems of detection and stealth are common amongst predators and prey alike. Even pointed, moving ears appear in predators (wolves, cats) and prey (deer, hares). The "burrow sense" and bow use, however, point markedly at predation. Aposematisms amongst high and dark elves suggest they have predators to fend off, but plenty of creatures like frogs, snakes and insects, are both predators and prey.

Super cool perspective!

Spoiler: brian 333

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That makes sense! It's not what I go for in my own settings or when I read fantasy—I'm a big fan of fiction that explores real world science, physical or social—but I can imagine the appeal!

Spoiler: Nift

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Player: "I'm really not okay with using Orcs as a designated evil race. They're just people li—"

DM: "Sorry to interrupt, but you should know Orcs are all vegan."

Player: "... fine, Orcs are my favored enemy."

You can't know how much I appreciate this.

Regarding "underground ecosystems", you'd probably want more fantasy elements than reality.

IRL life only exists where an energy source provides constant fuel for life. Caves can support life when there's a steady flow of nutrition from the surface, for example bat droppings can support cave-bugs but only because the bats leave to eat out every day. The sun is a great source of fuel; there are some deep-sea thermal vents which can support life in a sunless world, but they don't provide the same scale of energy.

Perhaps Dwarves are piezoelectric and can extract energy from the heat differential between liquid magma and nice cold iron. When they're out on the surface, they "eat" by soaking their feet in the campfire, and their hands in a river. Their "wiry beards" are actually organic copper heat-sinks. They love gold because it's a great thermal conductor -- like dragons, they enjoy sleeping on it for its dissipative properties.

That's super interesting! But seeing how exotic that lifestyle and anatomy is, I can see why dwarves would need more fantasy than reality to stay familiar to players.

Spoiler: Mechalich

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You say this, but there is nothing in your species descriptions suggesting what else these other humanoids possess as ancestors. You're hitting on a central problem of treating fantasy species in this fashion: all of the standards are basically funny humans (especially internally, never mind a few external variants) and would fit fairly comfortably within the Tribe Hominini - which includes all currently known human relatives closer than Chimpanzees. That's not a problem, exactly, the Hominini is actually a fairly diverse group and you can certainly get vegetarian elves (from a heavy chewing source like Paranthropus) or vegetarian orcs (which are largely humans with some cranial and dental adjustments anyway, like Neanderthals) and so forth out of it, but that's not going to represent widespread convergence among varied lineages on the tree of life. If you're going to do that you have to go much broader.

Your criticism makes a lot of sense!

I'd imagined goblinoids being intelligent animals (like humanity), but I didn't think too hard about what they evolved from. Given that bugbears are already a thing, I can see goblinoids relating more to bears than apes.

Elves and gnomes, on the other hand, are fey and not animals. I think I mentioned in their blurb that they'd evolve from creatures of the feywild, and that the large size of elves relative to gnomes represents a departure from their ancestry. You might imagine that they relate to faeries the way humans relate to other apes.

Orcs are tricky because they definitely aren't otherwordly, but the animal they best resemble is the human. You were right to say they'd fit snuggly into hominini as pseudo-neanderthals, and the existence of half-orc humans (but no half-orc elves, dwarves or goblins) reinforces that.

If you're looking at humanoid body plans emerging independently then you have a few factors to consider. You need the potential to be bipedal and the possibility of grasping hands. There are a number of possibilities within the mammals: bears, koalas, macropod marsupials, mustelids, pangolins, sloths, and potentially rodents; but beyond that it's going to get pretty sparse. Theropod dinosaurs are an option to produce some sort of lizardfolk. Iguanas too, and certain archiac arcosaurs if you push it.

What I find interesting is that even though there are many humanoid races, they seem to avoid these lineages fiercely. Marsupials, mustelids, pangolins, sloths and rodents might not have the appeal of birds, frogs, fish
and hyenas, for instance. Reptiles, however, made the cut, even when they shouldn't've.

[jqavins]

The world I'm designing is somewhat minimalist, but not too minimalist. I have humans, goblins, and orcs all being related nearly as closely as modern humans and neanderthals, closer than humans and gorillas. The differences in size and physique arise from adaptation to different hunting methods due to their close proximity and consequent competition. Orcs evolved to hunt by great force, accepting some losses in a brutal life style. Goblins evolved to use darkness and trickery, and accepting large losses in a very dangerous world and reproducing fast. Humans evolved a middling physique and the ability to plan very carefully to minimize losses. Orcs are the most successful hunting the largest game, goblins go after smaller stuff, and humans the middle size. These are all cross-fertile. I go back and forth on including ogres in this group, but I don't know what roll they would fill other than big hunters of big game, which the orcs already have.

I've redefined the fey type to be creatures of magic, somewhere between elementals and mortals in that they are physical, material beings but also embody a natural force of some kind; I haven't detailed any as of yet, but conceived that in order to support this:

Ancient gods crossed some humanoids with some fey and made species of the "Fey Touched" type. Elves are Fey Touched (magic) and made from humans. Dwarves are Fey Touched (Earth) and made from goblins. Incidentally, neither goblins nor dwarves live entirely or mainly underground, so I have no need to consider subterranean ecosystems. Goblins sleep in burros or caves but come out to hunt. Dwarves went from goblin cave dwelling to mining due to the earth subtype fey touch, and often spend long periods down in the mines, but have homes, farms, hunts, and so on up on the surface like everybody else.

Perhaps I'll have ogres be Fey Touched (War) and derived from orcs.

The Fey Touched are cross-fertile with their humanoid ancestors. Thus, there are half elf half humans, an there can also be half dwarf half goblins, but one does not say so in the company of dwarves. The option above for ogres allows for ogrillons.

I plan to adapt more monsters into various Fey Touched.

Perhaps Dwarves are piezoelectric and can extract energy from the heat differential between liquid magma and nice cold iron.

Did you mean thermoelectric, or are you suggesting both piezo and thermo?

They love gold because it's a great thermal conductor -- like dragons, they enjoy sleeping on it for its dissipative properties.

If this is the case, they should love silver far more. Once again, there's the trouble with trying to reconcile fantasy and real world science.

[Nifft]

Did you mean thermoelectric, or are you suggesting both piezo and thermo?

Probably one of those, yes. Thanks for the correction.

If this is the case, they should love silver far more. Once again, there's the trouble with trying to reconcile fantasy and real world science.

Maybe they get annoyed that silver tarnishes?

Or maybe they prefer gold because it's both a good conductor and very prestigious, so all the poor dwarves & dragons sleep on copper & silver, while the rich ones use gold?

These are highly intelligent beings, therefore the justifications for their preferences can be very stupid -- just as is true for humans.

[jqavins]

These are highly intelligent beings, therefore the justifications for their preferences can be very stupid -- just as is true for humans.

Fair enough. The smartest ones would make "beds" of gold plated copper. I did some more computation and, it turns out, that copper is the best metal for dissipating^* heat, with silver second. Gold plating prevents tarnishing.

* Silver is a better conductor of heat, but copper is a close second, and has a substantially higher specific heat capacity so it warms up less as heat is conducted into it. Platinum is a surprisingly crumby conductor. But platinum plating over the copper would be as good as gold plating, since the thin plating doesn't make any real difference anyway. So for a good thermally dissipative bed with a nice two-tone effect, use tiles of gold plated and platinum plated copper in a mosaic of some sort.

Or some of the tiles could be plated in 18K (75%) to 14K (58.3%) gold, with colors of red (balance copper) and green (balance silver) or pale yellow (various compositions) as well as pure gold and platinum, to add more color to the mosaic.

And now the horse is dead, so I'll stop beating it.

[Knaight]

Platinum is a surprisingly crumby conductor. But platinum plating over the copper would be as good as gold plating, since the thin plating doesn't make any real difference anyway.

This is a questionable assumption. Thermal conduction across material contact surfaces essentially has three regions of thermal resistance, two for the materials and one for the contact surface itself. The contact surface resistance can be surprisingly high, and while metal-metal surfaces tend to be on the low end for that a messier plating job could easily be significant.

[jqavins]

(I said I would stop beating the horse, but there may be some life left in it.)

All true. I made two assumptions that I think I are reasonable, and I should have stated if I weren't taking this so casually. Not being a true expert in the subject, I could be wrong about either one, but I feel quite good about them all the same.

1. There is a good plating job. Dragons and dwarves who own large amounts of gold can afford the best in plating services and technology, so there is reliable intimate contact between the underlying copper and whatever it is plated with. Thus, the copper-to-plating boundary layer is no more of a factor than the plating layer itself is.
2. The thermal contact between the metal and the creature is not so great, and that interface is probably the greatest part of the net thermal resistance chain. However, my assumption is that this great resistance is attributable mainly to the mechanical aspects of the interface, i.e. that there is not nearly so intimate a boundary layer as there is with the plating, and that will be the same regardless of the metal in contact. So the choice of plating may make some difference in the thermal resistance at that interface, but only a little.

[Knaight]

All true. I made two assumptions that I think I are reasonable, and I should have stated if I weren't taking this so casually. Not being a true expert in the subject, I could be wrong about either one, but I feel quite good about them all the same.

I have some quibbles about them, and was midway through a post before I realized that the only reasonable end involved a thermal resistance diagram, and that escalation to COMSOL was worryingly likely (on my end). So I'll leave it here.

I'll also say that I suspect you're right (particularly given the influence of the second assumption), I'm just much less confident in it. Sadly I don't have any platinum or gold coated copper plates to test this on.

[Bohandas]

Theropod dinosaurs are an option to produce some sort of lizardfolk.

And possibly elves too; for some reason elves give me a bird vibe

[JeenLeen]

For some ideas, you might enjoy (if you can find it) the instruction manual for Arcanum: of Steamwork and Sorcery.

It has a section going into the natural and supernatural selection that led to the different races. You seem to be going for a more natural (i.e., not magically-created) route than that setting did, but it could have some nifty ideas you could draw inspiration from.

EDIT: by typing Arcanum instruction manual into Google, one of the first hits was Sierra's help page, and it seemed to be a transcript of it. So that might help. (I can't check it because at work.)