Let's Read & Play: Baldur’s Gate II - Bhaal is Dead!

[Khay]

Anomen strikes me as the sort of person who can have a months-long relationship in his head, regardless of what the lady does or doesn't do.

[Spore]

I am not even sure what people who complain about the Anomen romance. He is a walking knight stereotype, that is true. But the point is: That is what he was brought up to be from his earliest years. Along with every trope, positive or negative. He is the knight from cheesy novels, even though real knights never where this way. And he is pompous. People might not like that.

I think people are just more pissed at the realization that you have no alternative to him than his actual personality. Aerie was cute as a 13 year-old but today I realize that she is two things I despise. Saccharine sweetness and extreme dependancy. If I were stuck with Aerie and only her, I would be pissed too. Viconia is extremely bossy and I always disliked that in women (being the boss is okay sometimes if it is tempered with kindness but she is a prick).

Game!Jaheira really looks like the personality someone as troubled as CHARNAME could relate to.
- They are travelling together long enough (as per canon)
- Both were ripped out of their comfort zone shortly before (Candlekeep and a marriage respectively)
- Both are or were shunned because of their 'race' (I think the half-breed heckles don't stop ingame even if the engine has no way of displaying that, and CHARNAME is hunted down because of his nature)
- Enough liberty writing-wise to make the romance work (Anomen and Aerie have to be built up as characters during their romance; Viconia probably has to adress drow and drow rebel stereotypes in every second sentence because she basically comes from bizarro world).

[Nerd-o-rama]

Anomen? Who's that?

Oh, you mean "Alistair before they hired any female writers".

As for the lady romances, I used to think Viconia was the only real option despite needing a walkthrough for her damn dialogs, but I can see going "grieving friends to lovers" with Jaheira if I replayed the game now. Aerie is a child, sorry.

[Honest Tiefling]

I can't think of a single romance I actually enjoy in Baldur's gate, but of all the romances I loathe, I loathe Anomen's the most. Simply because it involves Anomen. I can kiiinda see how Jaheira or Viconia might be interesting romances (though I prefer Viconia's romance as a redemption arc myself), but girls have no decent romantic choices unfortunately.

BG:EE gives you Rasaad (decent fellow, has some good lines) and Dorn, who is probably a bit burly for many ladies, but hey, he's not Sir Jerklord Delyrn. And no, I'm not bothering to look up how his name is actually spelled.

I seem to get a lot of bugged dialog in these games, because Aerie when I last played started giggling to my character about how men steal all of the blankets. It was very confusing, since I have no idea how the sleeping arrangements worked and I am left to wonder how Aerie went from having her compatriots at the circus being slaughtered to sharing a bedroll with Minsc or Rasaad within a week? (Hands off, bimbo, baldy is MINE.) I think it might have been romantic dialog that accidentally triggered, but I like to assume Minsc is in the habit of stealing blankets from women to give to Boo.

Then again, I don't like Aerie. I find her whimsy and cutesy-ness a stark contrast to MY SISTER WAS KIDNAPPED PAY ATTENTION. Oh, I'm glad ONE of us is enjoying risking our lives to scrounge enough money to save her, but please go to the back and shut up.

Oh, you mean "Alistair before they hired any female writers".

Other then being white dudes in armor, I don't really see the resemblance. One is a arrogant snot who can only be banged if you give his ego a good stroking and agree with every inane thing he says. The other is a goodhearted but insecure dude who uses humor to cover that up.

[Kish]

It's not romantic dialogue. It's specifically dialogue you can only get if you lack one of the crucial qualifications to romance Aerie, in fact.

[Honest Tiefling]

It's not romantic dialogue. It's specifically dialogue you can only get if you lack one of the crucial qualifications to romance Aerie, in fact.

Is this a thing women do with each other? Because I still think it's a very confusing thing for her to mention that the men of the party have been stealing her blankets somehow.

[Maryring]

Is this a thing women do with each other? Because I still think it's a very confusing thing for her to mention that the men of the party have been stealing her blankets somehow.

Unless they're 15 year old and on the cusp of going from "boys are weird and stupid and have lice" to "why am I suddenly interested in boys?!" then no, they don't.

Witty answer aside, it depends. Some do, some don't.

BG:EE gives you Rasaad (decent fellow, has some good lines) and Dorn, who is probably a bit burly for many ladies, but hey, he's not Sir Jerklord Delyrn. And no, I'm not bothering to look up how his name is actually spelled.

I never actually went through their romances. I don't like Rasaad as his whole personal quest in SoA involves him being as passive and undecisive as humanly possible, to the point that when I got the chance to foist him onto the broken cult as a teacher I was more than happy to kick him out just to get rid of his uncertain faffing. Do or do not. There is no "sitting on your thumbs, complain about everything and rely on CHARNAME to make any and all decisions for you." His revenge plot feels far less engaging than Dorn's, as it just faffs out in eternum while every cultist you meet seems to have more charisma than he does.

As for Dorn, he's likeable enough. In BG1. I could actually have him around too since he didn't seem that evil. Come BG2 and the game has Dorn constantly eat puppies for breakfast to remind you that he is EEEEEEVIL!

Although that does remind me. The EE does have a rather unfortunate problem in that both the gay options are evil. It'd have been nice if there were options for good gay folks too.

(Not including mods. Mods fix everything!)

[Honest Tiefling]

Unless they're 15 year old and on the cusp of going from "boys are weird and stupid and have lice" to "why am I suddenly interested in boys?!" then no, they don't.

Witty answer aside, it depends. Some do, some don't.

Now I am imagining Minsc stealing blankets from Aerie hard enough to fling her into a wall.

Although that does remind me. The EE does have a rather unfortunate problem in that both the gay options are evil. It'd have been nice if there were options for good gay folks too.

Yeah, I agree, but I think there's a reason Dorn is willing to stick it into anything. I think there's a reason they did it that way: Evil parties lack a decent meat shield other than Kagain/Korgan, one of which is chaotic evil. Sure, that chaotic part doesn't matter much for anything but roleplaying, but it makes more sense to give team Evil another fighter-type than good parties who have Jaheira or Minsc. Minsc is such a fan favorite I doubt many people didn't end up using him.

Which means Dorn is going to end up as a burly guy. So the choice is, do you make Dorn, the evil but muscular guy willing to hit on anything, or do you make the less-manly option do it and run into kinda uncomfortable territory? Either way, it's a pitfall. Especially after Bioware got into some trouble for Zevran.

Schael, if she hits on a female Bhaalspawn is canonically bi AND lawful good, so yay? Glint is firmly gay and Neutral Good.

[Spore]

Unless they're 15 year old and on the cusp of going from "boys are weird and stupid and have lice" to "why am I suddenly interested in boys?!" then no, they don't.

Witty answer aside, it depends. Some do, some don't.

I do not think most female PCs were actually played by women. So honestly Anomen is a guideline for males on who to treat ladies.

Anecdotal evidence. I know. But I feel my friend (and DM at the time) courted his first girlfriend with parts of how the PC dealt with Aerie. The two were a nice couple but you could tell they were maybe not made for eternity. Alas, let the memeing commence

Spoiler

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BG:EE gives you Rasaad (decent fellow, has some good lines) and Dorn, who is probably a bit burly for many ladies, but hey, he's not Sir Jerklord Delyrn. And no, I'm not bothering to look up how his name is actually spelled.

Dorn is commended to be both the first bisexual romance option in Baldur's Gate and despite his evil alignment, he has principles (that balance out his chaotic outbursts). He is not one dimensional and okayish written (for BG companion standards, a little less for BG 2 standards) but he is overly dramatic and while not edgy, his "actions" are certainly hammy. A few quotes:

It shall be even bloodier than you hoped.

There are hundreds, thousands, hundreds of thousands of people we could be slaying right now, and we do nothing!

So peaceful and serene it seems. It is a lie. The leaves and branches hide a savagery we sapients can only aspire to.

Senjak! Dorothea! I swore I would crush the lives out of you some day. Today is that day!

[Honest Tiefling]

I do not think most female PCs were actually played by women. So honestly Anomen is a guideline for males on who to treat ladies.

Please tell me this is sarcasm or that you are actually a gay dude. He's basically a neckbeard. Funnily enough, he tried to get my PC to sleep with him in a graveyard. Good job there, Sir Jerklord.

[Kish]

All the Bioware romances spend quite a while doing "now you have to remain calm and supportive while your love interest has a meltdown." David Gaider is on record as thinking it's romantic when you have to play therapist to your significant other. And (the real problem, in my view) that it's romantic for that to be entirely one-sided.

[Maryring]

I do not think most female PCs were actually played by women. So honestly Anomen is a guideline for males on who to treat ladies.

... what?

Are you trying to say that Anomen is how men should act to get women interested? Because if so. No. Just no.

I mean, seriously. What do you even base that on? That someone liked Anomen? That's like saying some girls like bondage so you should read a scout manual on knots in order to get girls. People enjoy different things. That does not change the fact that Anomen is not a good partner.

The first "flirt" (though I'm loathe to call it that) out of his mouth is "why haven't you asked me about me?!". And then he proceeds to negg you. And that doesn't really let up. He constantly insults and belittles you while taking absolutely no responsibility for his own actions if he screws up.

I'd never want a serious relationship with someone like him.

[Spore]

Please tell me this is sarcasm or that you are actually a gay dude.

Both actually. :)

Are you trying to say that Anomen is how men should act to get women interested? Because if so. No. Just no.

Have you seen the striking similarities between 'white knights' in media (games, television, movies, books?) and the rampant behaviour that females have to be protected from every minor inconvenience? Yeah, Anomen is part of that problem of young showing boys "how it is done". Of course it is wrong. But no one tells you that in the game. Actually in all romances you are the guy shielding your love from themselves or the outside.

I am actually unsure if Bioware CAN write other romances (I have not played ME, simply because the gameplay is unappealing).

[Honest Tiefling]

Both actually. :)

Ah, crisis averted.

Have you seen the striking similarities between 'white knights' in media (games, television, movies, books?) and the rampant behaviour that females have to be protected from every minor inconvenience? Yeah, Anomen is part of that problem of young showing boys "how it is done". Of course it is wrong. But no one tells you that in the game. Actually in all romances you are the guy shielding your love from themselves or the outside.

I think that's older video games. Modern love interests usually do something at some point. Hell, even the love interest in the modern Wolfenstein the female love interest did stuff on her own, helps out quite a lot, and emotionally supports YOUR character.

Most movies sorta skip that step and go from 'rescue' to 'banging'.

I am actually unsure if Bioware CAN write other romances (I have not played ME, simply because the gameplay is unappealing).

I get the feeling that the romances for female players are constantly worse. I didn't do all of the romances for Dragon Age, (and they were technically for everybody) but Anders wasn't one that appealed to me, and I greatly suspect that was meant to appeal to women. If someone is more familiar with Bioware we should compare.

I do wonder if Anomen's romance got weird because it was rushed, that it was supposed to be a female Bhaalspawn wanting someone willing to throw themselves into battle to protect her. A little stupid yes, but love makes you do stupid things.

I mean, I thought Haer'Daelis was a cancelled love interest. Through I find it amusing that they gave dudes THREE romances and dialog if you romance two ladies at once, but the ladiy Bhaalspawn only get the one option.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Actually in all romances you are the guy shielding your love from themselves or the outside.

I am actually unsure if Bioware CAN write other romances (I have not played ME, simply because the gameplay is unappealing).

ME's romances get...better about that as the series goes on. In the first game yeah kind of, at least literally, although Kaidan and Shepard are on more even emotional footings and I have problems with that romance for various other reasons.

ME2 though, you tend to have relationships where both characters behave more like adults. Sensitive, philosophical Ill Dude Thane or Daddy Issues Professional Snarky Vigilante Garrus or Daddy Issues Drywall Jacob are all pretty equal and give-and-take with Stress-out Undead Soldier Shepard. I never played a male Shep, but I do think it may be a tad biased toward him emotionally protecting Jack or Tali or Miranda, actually. I'd need to play through to be sure and...I don't wanna. I can't go a whole game without hearing Jennifer Hale when I know that's an option.

The only new major romances in ME3 are opening up Kaidan for guys and new gay romances Cortez and Traynor so there's not so much to comment about gender roles there. Although they are still largely about the player character playing therapist except for a few moments where that's thankfully reversed.

Also I misread your statement (focusing on "guy" rather than "you") so I guess I can tl;dr this as "yeah pretty much except maybe for femshep in ME2 and a few points in ME3 where the narrative acknowledges that Shepard is cracking and needs some support themself".

[Khay]

Another Saturday update! Truly we live in a blessed age.

Not much actually happens in Chapter 7. Abdel just reports back to Bodhi. However, I struggled to write this one. You're reading the third or fourth revision of this post. Let's see if we can get through this one, shall we?

Before we start, be aware that this chapter earns a content note because it contains a non-consensual sexual encounter. You'll see.

Spoiler: The book

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We find Bodhi sitting in her room under the Copper Coronet, anxiously waiting for Abdel to return. She fears Abdel may have switched sides, and wonders if she should contact Irenicus, but it turns out she needn't have worried.

Abdel burst into the room, panting and shaking in barely concealed rage. He sat heavily on the floor, tossing his broadsword aside casually.
"Well," he said, "I'm back. In more ways than one."
Relieved to see him, but still concerned about the coming dawn, Bodhi went to him quickly. The sellsword shook his head a little and held up a hand to keep her away, keep her quiet, or both.

Bodhi asks Abdel what happened, but he just refuses to talk about it, demanding to be paid for the murder. Bodhi goes in for a kiss instead, and Abdel pushes her away again. And then...

You know how vampires have a gaze attack that works like a Charm spell on the weak-willed? Well, this is where the content warning comes in.

When she pulled away, his eyes were clouded and confused. "Jaheira ..." he said.
Bodhi shook her head, and his eyes met hers. She focused on the blackest point of his pupils and held his gaze in a grip as real and as tight as any vise. She released a slow, steady exhale, and her will drifted out from her eyes to his.

The resulting scene, interestingly, isn't written like it's non-consensual, although it absolutely is. The point of view shifts back to Abdel, and we are treated to several pages of sweaty, thrusting, joint-dislocating masculinity. It reads like a bodice ripper, with Abdel doing the ripping, which is really weird considering what just happened.

Even Bodhi wasn't ready for the reaction she got.
(...)
They came together in the same kind of hesitant, exploratory dance of two swordsmen parrying blows and searching for weaknesses and openings. Her dress came off like an opponent's shield being batted away[.]
(...)
They were completely together in a single, crystalline moment. It was the sort of moment Abdel had never experienced, even in his most intense blood frenzy, or his most violent, kill-crazy melee.

Okay, so, it reads like the worst bodice ripper ever written by someone not named "Ayn Rand," and it tries to be PG-13. That's a thing. But, just... imagine the reception this scene would've received if the set-up was Irenicus getting a female CHARNAME drunk. Rape is a thing that you, as an author, may choose to include in your story. That's an option. Stories often include bad things. Like murder! But you probably shouldn't be this clueless about it?

I genuinely can't figure out where Athans was going with this one. The use of violent language could be meant to be unsettling, but it could also be part of a power fantasy. After all, the rest of this chapter is basically dedicated to talking up Abdel's manly virtues.

How is this scene meant to be read? It could be that Bodhi is being portrayed as a creepy sexual predator with a non-con fetish (receiving). She's mentally editing the violent thrusting masculinity stuff in because that's part of the scene she's trying to set up, and because she's trying to make Abdel fit a certain mold, like Humbert with Dolores.

The less charitable interpretation would be that the chapter is more about Abdel totally getting it on with this hot vampire chick, and it's not even technically cheating, bro. The violent language, then, is a kind of Edwarding. Setting Abdel up as being dark and strong and sexy-dangerous. That sort of thing.

I fear it's probably the second one. The book will re-examine this encounter in Chapter Twenty, but only to imply Abdel secretly consented. I don't know. Let's just... move on.

After a page or two, Abdel's "release" comes, and Bodhi jams her fangs into his neck. Abdel passes out after half a minute of feeding, and the point-of-view switches back to Bodhi, who is left weak-kneed by the experience. See, "Treasure Type O" referred to a blood type all along.

This was no man.
He was right, Bodhi thought. By the darkest layers of the Abyss, Irenicus was right. This was no man. No man at all.
(...)
The taste of blood, to her, had become like the cuisine of the living. Some was good — prepared well by a good, wealthy, comfortable life — some was left to its own devices, left to rot or congeal in its destitute chefs muddy veins. Abdel's blood was like nothing she'd ever tasted before.
To the blunt sensitivity of her tongue, Abdel was the strong young man he appeared to be. When it seemed like her head was going to explode in a shower of frenzied light, the simple taste stopped being important. When her whole body pressed into the experience then burst into flowers and starbursts and every explosion of red, whirling hell, she stopped being the predator and became a sort of worshiper, begging for the favor of a fickle but generous god.

I have no idea how to handle... this. I know I'm meant to be commentating this for you, but where do I even begin? I like the first paragraph, where Bodhi muses about the blood she's had over the centuries, but the second is complete gibberish. I literally have no idea what any of the words from "blunt sensitivity" onward are supposed to mean. Is there such a thing as a forensic linguist? Because I'm pretty sure a word crime happened here.

Having discovered that Bhaalspawn blood is basically cocaine for vampires, Bodhi wants another hit. She knows she'll drain Abdel dry if she feeds again, though, so she puts her dress back on and watches him slowly regain consciousness. He lost a lot of blood, but it just feels like a bad hangover to him. I guess the regeneration factor is coming in handy. He tumbles out of bed, and struggles to get dressed.

"I didn't hurt you," he said quietly, hopefully.
"No," she said quickly, part of a long, sibilant breath.
He pulled on the trousers, cursing under his breath at the trouble he had pulling them on. His hands were strangely weak, shook a little, and the pants were just so tight on him.

Bodhi attempts some small talk, but Abdel - now a little more clear-headed - is having none of it. He had some time to think on his way back to the Copper Coronet, and he's noticed that this plot doesn't actually makes sense.

His mind was a confusion of a million emotions and thoughts that made no sense to him. He knew he was being manipulated by this woman and her friend Gaelan Bayle. He knew he was being targeted by the Shadow Thieves for something Sarevok did — ridiculous enough.

This is rather interesting: The author is resolving a plot thread he forgot to set up. We know that the Shadow Thieves actually did hire Bodhi and Irenicus to abduct Abdel. This isn't a lie Bodhi told him; we spent some time in her head in chapter 2, and she was thinking about the deal with the Shadow Thieves then. However, we didn't actually learn why the Shadow Thieves ordered the abduction, and neither did Abdel. This is the sort of thing one would expect an editor to catch.

While this all seems fishy to our hero, he has decided to play along for now, figuring it's his only real chance to rescue Jaheira and Imoen. He knows Bodhi is setting him up for something, but he figures he can deal with that when the time comes.

"You know where I need to go," he told her, "don't you?"
"You killed him in his house?" she asked, her voice tight.
(...)
From the top of the stairs he threw the sack at Bodhi's feet. When Aran Linvail's severed head rolled out of it, Bodhi took a deep breath and tried not to smile. "I don't need to kill someone else for the other twenty thousand, do I?" he asked.

Yeah, so, they shagged right next to that thing and we just learned that Bodhi, as a vampire, is all about blood. How did she not notice a blood-soaked burlap sack? Maybe it was a rhetorical question.

The 50k fee is waived, since it was kind of a worthless plot element, and Bodhi explains that Imoen is being held at Spellhold. She describing it as an asylum for the insane, controlled by the Shadow Thieves, and "reveals" her "reason" for manipulating Abdel.

"Where is this place?" he asked Bodhi.
"One of my brothers is there," she said.
"What does that have to do with me?" he asked. "Should I kill him too?"
"No," answered Bodhi, "he's on our side. His name is Jon Irenicus. (...) He was falsely accused — manipulated by the Shadow Thieves, who control the asylum."
(...)
"If Jaheira and Imoen are being kept at this madhouse as you say," Abdel told her, "nothing could keep me from going there."
"And will you help my brother?" she asked.
Abdel sighed. He'd been manipulated into all of this but... "Of course," he promised.

Credit where credit's due: This is another clever bit of misdirection. Abdel has noticed something fishy is going on. Bodhi doesn't even try to deny it, instead confirming his suspicions. The reason she gives for trying to get Abdel to Spellhold is still a lie, but given her earlier admission of guilt, Abdel doesn't think to question it further. (There's another layer of misdirection here, but more on that later.)

Abdel asks if she's going to get him to Spellhold. Bodhi checks outside for signs of dawn, then says she has to go. She leaves Abdel with a password (Nchasme) and the business card of a local pirate captain (Saemon Havarian, who is also in this book).

"The captain can get you there," she said, her voice loud and clear. "There's only one madhouse. It's on an island. You'll need a boat. I beg you ... I beg you to go there. And remember the word—
""Nchasme" he repeated, glancing down at the sawdust. She'd traced two wavy, parallel lines like water, with something that might have been an eye between them on the right-hand side.

Bodhi says she has to hurry, leaving Abdel alone with his thoughts.

Spoiler: The game

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Last time, we murdered Aran Linvail. Today, we loot his bedroom.


Screenshot

Throne of Bhaal adds the option to press the Tab key to highlight doors and containers. This may seem like a small thing, but it's perhaps the single biggest quality of life improvement the ToB engine provides. We pick up Aran's stuff, then leave without further incident.

Well, almost without further incident. We do encounter a pushy merchant on our way out of the area:


Screenshot

This dialogue is unique to the Jaheira romance. It's not part of the event chain, but I really like that it's there - this game has a fair bit of attention to detail in some places.

JAHABOAM: Ho there, I have worked long and lonely hours and it is good to see a friendly face! Care to see some of my trinkets and far flung wares?
JAHABOAM: Something special, something plain, whatever you wish for in these uncertain times, I can make accommodation.
JAHABOAM: Something...for the lady, perhaps? Oh, yes, I see a glint in the eye. There is romance afoot, and it needs the dancing partner of the adornments of affection!
JAHEIRA: N-no, that's quite alright. Do not make a fuss.
JAHABOAM: Nonsense! Oh, but perhaps I have overstepped my bounds with my observant eyes. I apologize most profusely.
JAHABOAM: It changes nothing though. You sir, your name?
CHARNAME: <CHARNAME>.
JAHABOAM: <CHARNAME>? The name of a man that knows his heart, but who perhaps has troubles warming the lady's heart. By no fault of your own, of course! Perhaps a gift?
JAHEIRA: I said not to...
JAHABOAM: I believe I was speaking to the gentleman. Now sir, she is a lady of the battlefield, so a commemorative blade possibly? No! I have the perfect thing!
JAHABOAM: A locket to carry an endearing portrait! A minor magic will instantly implant a likeness of the lady. A mere 20 gold, that you might but glance at my other items.
CHARNAME: Fine, I'll take it.
JAHABOAM: Then I shall give it to you! A sign of friendship becomes your sign of caring. Just return to see my other items.
JAHEIRA: <CHARNAME>! You do not need to...
CHARNAME: Well, I suppose not. If you are sure you do not want it.
JAHABOAM: Oh, no refunds at that price. The enchantment has already given it your faces when you handled it. But return to see my other wares and I'll see what I can do.
CHARNAME: Thank you then. I will be back.
JAHABOAM: As you will. Farewell for now. Good luck to you and the lady. Ahh, to be young. Jahaboam bids you not squander what is there to grasp. Farewell!
JAHEIRA: What a...charming fellow. Completly insane of course. Out of his mind. Blind as a bat. No idea what he was saying.
CHARNAME: Yes...yes of course. Out of his mind. Yes.
JAHEIRA: Yes. Well.
JAHEIRA: Let's...let's get going shall we?
JAHEIRA: The...the locket is lovely, by the way. Thank you.

Screenshot

Awkward flirting best flirting.

I should mention that the game also considers us eligible for the Viconia romance and the Aerie romance, so they occasionally pipe up. Viconia talks about cultural differences between the Underdark and the surface, while Aerie has a really traumatic backstory about being captured by slavers and having her wings amputated after they became infected. I won't follow those event chains, but they do happen.


Screenshot

We arrive back at the graveyard, but it's day now, so Bodhi isn't in. We stop in our comfy bedchamber for a rest. For some reason, there's a stake in the nightstand? Eh, it's probably not important.

Somehow, we don't have a nightmare this time. It seems the phantasms have said everything they wanted to say.

Bodhi should be around now, so let's check in with her. She has such a messed up sleep cycle! I know that problem.


Screenshot

The first two lines are, again, voiced. Bodhi has some pretty nice voice acting.

BODHI: Ahh, you return. I take it that your... hunt... was successful? I'm sure it was a fulfilling chase, one that I certainly wish I had seen.
CHARNAME: You were capable of the battle and the chase. Are we through with games now?
BODHI: You have complied with my conditions, met my challenges, and have proven your ability to me and my cause. What cause is this, you may ask? I shall tell you.
BODHI: The disruption of the Shadow Thieves was the pulling of a splinter, more a happy side effect to your evaluation for service. Certainly useful, but not the true calling of either of us.
BODHI: You seek Imoen, your lost comrade, and Irenicus, the one who would give you power. I am prepared to give you their location, and the means with which to reach them.
CHARNAME: Imoen is of paramount inportance.

Once again, you have a roleplaying option here - it's up to you if CHARNAME considers Imoen or Irenicus to be more inportant. It doesn't make much of a difference.


Screenshot

BODHI: There is a caveat, however. When you find Irenicus he is to be mine as well. His death is not to come until we have both been satisfied.
CHARNAME: You mentioned some of this long ago. What do you know of this fiend?
BODHI: I know much and will share it. You do not know the full picture of the man, and I cannot blame you for your cautiousness.
BODHI: It is true that Irenicus was your captor, and indeed, your stay in his care was not the most comfortable, but there were circumstance that you are not aware of.
BODHI: I know, <CHARNAME>, that you are a child of Bhaal. Bhaal, among other things, was lord of murder. Irenicus has a fascination with death, so you were of interest.
BODHI: I am the first to say that I do not endorse the experiments that were done, but you should know there was a reason to it.
CHARNAME: So he tracked me and did what he wished. Why torture my fellows?
BODHI: I will get to that in a moment. While you were in Jon's... 'care' he discovered the potential you have, and resolved to aid your development.
BODHI: You mistook the unfortunate effects of his experiments for torture. More might have been revealed to you but he had a... confrontation with the Shadow Thieves.
BODHI: Of course you saw the outcome of that battle, with your own Imoen spirited away. You seek her, and I seek Irenicus. Both of us could benefit by his return, and hers.
CHARNAME: What do you mean, both of us? What do you want out of this?
BODHI: I require several things, but please, allow me to clarify. I know full well that your efforts to retrieve Irenicus would not be gentle.
BODHI: Irenicus is the only remnant of family that I have. We have survived through different means, but he is, for all intents and purposes, my brother.
BODHI: That said, he has certain things that I want. I cannot access much of his knowledge while he is incarcerated. I would have him released, and pliable to my will.
BODHI: I seek his return so I might use his knowledge. His condition will be irrelevant, and what I learn from him will benefit you as well. This is what I can offer.

In the game as in the book, this is a clever bit of misdirection. If you have even the slightest bit of genre savvy, you'll know that Bodhi isn't even a little bit trustworthy. So, here, she's setting up an enemy-of-my-enemy kind of situation for you, just to make sure CHARNAME continues to play along.


Screenshot

Not that we have much of a choice. You can fish for more information, but you can't actually reject her offer.

BODHI: I seek his return so I might use his knowledge. His condition will be irrelevant, and what I learn from him will benefit you as well. This is what I can offer.
CHARNAME: What was the nature of the fight with the Shadow Thieves?
BODHI: I do not concern myself with my brother's self-destructive plans. He angered them as he angers many. Some other experiment gone wrong perhaps.
BODHI: It is possible they even suspected my relationship to him. I have become quite the thorn in their sides.
CHARNAME: You must have been close to Irenicus before. Why did you not use him then?
BODHI: He is powerful, as you saw. I doubt I could have 'convinced' him to reveal secrets while he was at full strength. Now he is weakened by rage and combat.
CHARNAME: You ask too much of me. I have already paid a large amount of gold for your help.
BODHI: I ask much, that is true, but this will benefit us both. You give him to me, and I give you what he has learned about you. Think of your potential. Think of Imoen.
CHARNAME: Perhaps I can help you, just so long as this does not interfere with my own goals.
BODHI: It will not interfere. You will reach Irenicus and Imoen with ease, for they are both in the same place; a horrible place designed to hold the strong willed.
BODHI: The Cowled Wizards took them to the one place that mages in Athkatla truly fear, a place where power is stripped and examined, where minds are laid open for study.
BODHI: The polite bureaucrat calls it a 'Residence for the Magically Deviant,' but mages just call it Spellhold. It is an asylum, where people are sent to disappear.
CHARNAME: Then it is a simple matter of retrieveing Imoen from this place.

The player knows all this from cutscenes, of course, but CHARNAME (potentially) does not. Thus, Bodhi (or Aran) will spell it out for you.


Screenshot

The trick, of course, is getting there. Once again, you can't bypass both Bodhi and the Shadow Thieves to do that - you have to get the help of one or the other if you want to be retrieveing Imoen.

BODHI: If it were as simple as walking to the gates and demanding entrance it would have been done a dozen times over for the sake of other inmates.
BODHI: Spellhold is an asylum, a place designed to hold mages and other... talented people. Even in this magically repressive society it would be considered cruel.
BODHI: The island it is located on is under its own rule, and even the Cowled Wizards are not certain what becomes of those sent there.
BODHI: It is considered a necessary evil, and like so many other evils, no one really wanted to deal with it once it began.
BODHI: I have used your gold to secure passage to the isle. You will have to contend with the asylum itself, and with the pirates that run the isle.
CHARNAME: You will not be coming? I am certain I could use the help.
BODHI: I will be going, though I do not enjoy... the movement of the water. Once we are there I will ascertain what my involvement should be.
CHARNAME: Then I will set sail this instant. Ready the ship and I shall be on my way.
BODHI: The ship awaits your arrival. A safe journey to you, <CHARNAME>. May you find what we both seek.


Journal entry:
Bodhi keeps her side of the bargain.

Bodhi agreed to fulfill our bargain, though there were some additional concerns she revealed.
According to Bodhi, Irenicus captured me because he had discovered my nature as a child of Bhaal, and he was attempting to 'aid' my development, though his methods were indistinguishable from torture. The Shadow Thieves attacked Irenicus before I could be told any of this, and I escaped as he was incarcerated.

Bodhi also told me that she is essentially Irenicus' sister, and that her reason for helping me is that she wishes to free the wizard from the same place that Imoen has been sent to, a dread asylum for magic-users called Spellhold. Bodhi does this not out of any familial attachment, but rather because she requires Irenicus for her own purposes. As added incentive she offers to reveal whatever Irenicus learned about me.

The asylum is on an island under its own rule, and Bodhi used the gold I gave her to book passage for me. There I will try to find a way into Spellhold to free Imoen...and, Bodhi hopes, free Irenicus at the same time.

Spellhold sounds like a nice place.

Here's a fun fact: If you take the time to explore during Chapter II, you can learn about Spellhold from other sources. Those include Quayle, the Harpers, and possibly an inside source if you can get the Cowled Wizards to owe you a favor. You can't actually do anything with that knowledge, though. It's a shame, really. (I think would've been cool to be able to hunt down information on your own, and then ask Duke Eltan to loan you a ship or something. Remember, the Cowled Wizards' jurisdiction does not extend beyond Athkatla.) As it stands, Chapter II is a problem for Paladins and Rangers, who can somehow take sides in a deeply amoral turf war without falling.

This concludes Chapter III. We are now ready to go ahead and save Imoen... next time.

Spoiler: Comparison and commentary

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So I'm not going to touch on the interplay-of-sex-and-violence stuff, other than to marvel at the sheer... existence of this chapter. I should stress that none of the weird stuff with Bodhi exists in the game. The game has its own issues, but we can talk about the Underdark when we get there.

Vampires, though! They have long been associated with a sort of predatory sexuality. That's just a cultural thing - Twilight was the romance series of the '00s, for better or for worse. SoA, for its part, is somewhat inconsistent about vampires. The thread has already talked about Bodhi's ridiculous outfit, but it bears repeating: BioWare made her run around in leather underwear. Her in-game sprite isn't much better, especially if she's standing like that.
That said, her portrait isn't exactly alluring. The sexy-creepy vampire traditionally has gothic makeup and a come-hither look, not a hostile squint and a chin splattered with gore. Bodhi is an unusually messy eater, rather unlike the standard-issue sexy vampire. She also spends most of her time running around crouched, bent forward, with her claws out. (There's some great fan art around.) She doesn't exactly flirt with you either. B. J. Ward gives her a sort of coldly arrogant voice, similar to the one David Warner did for Irenicus.
The Bodhi of the games ultimately feels like a somewhat inconsistent subversion. She hits some of the "sexy vampire" tropes, but she doesn't exactly fit the stereotype. If she's an alluring predator of the night, then she's heavy on the "predator" and light on the "alluring." The Bodhi of the novel, meanwhile, is just a sexual predator.

This, I think, is a good summary of a big issue with the novels in general. The BG series, as a whole, is highly traditional fantasy. The setting is vaguely medieval and vaguely European, but with magic and elves and a Thieves' Guild. You are an individual of unique ability and special destiny, and you travel across the world, unearthing treasures and picking up companions along the way. There's a big bad evil to sword at, and you save the world in the end.

It's important to remember that "traditional" doesn't have to mean "formulaic" - there's nothing wrong with being traditional if you deliver on the execution. Shadows of Amn nails it. Bhaal is Dead!, not so much. But beyond that, the games always have just enough of an edge to them to keep things interesting. BG is traditional fantasy, but the games rarely play their tropes quite straight. Remember that the original Baldur's Gate had a weirdly convoluted plot about arms dealers and the ridiculousness of war, for example. The second game will soon start asking some really pointed questions about identity and destiny. You may be the chosen one, but there's a couple dozen chosen ones running around, and it's unequivocally a Bad Thing. That sort of thing. The novels retain most of the superficial elements, but they miss those little moments of self-reflection and self-irony. Instead, we get scar-covered assassins, sexy vampires and ill-considered noncon scenes.

I can't really think of an AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION for this chapter, unfortunately. The game part is a bit thin in terms of content, and anything I could think of for the book section would be in very poor taste. I was thinking about the romances, but I think we've exhausted that topic of discussion.

Perhaps this is a good opportunity to talk about character and party builds in depth? When I played the game as a kid, I was all about the Sorcerer, because magic is cool and so is the implication that you might be part dragon. (The Dragon Disciple kit makes it explicit. A half-elven Dragon Disciple is my favourite EE build because of the complicated ancestry it implies.) I think that's still true, though I usually went Fighter -> Mage during later playthroughs because playing a level 1 spellcaster is just too painful for me. How about you?

[The Glyphstone]

No mention of the fact that pirates in Amn hand out business cards?

[Honest Tiefling]

I have no idea how to handle... this. I know I'm meant to be commentating this for you, but where do I even begin? I like the first paragraph, where Bodhi muses about the blood she's had over the centuries, but the second is complete gibberish. I literally have no idea what any of the words from "blunt sensitivity" onward are supposed to mean. Is there such a thing as a forensic linguist? Because I'm pretty sure a word crime happened here.

I think what it is saying is that at first taste, the blood seemed normal, but then she got a high a few seconds afterwards. Like drinks that people don't taste the alcohol in and then drink a bunch and well, they're now drunk.

As for the sex, I think the idea is that Abdel was rough and that Bodhi's mind magic made it feel better. He does express concern that he hurt her afterwards, so at the very least, he probably wasn't intending harm. It's still creepy as all ****, mind you. I also think the idea was that Abdel wanted Bodhi, but his attachment to Jahiera held him back. After all, vampires are often associated not just with desire, but forbidden desire. Bodhi seems like she's being set up as a second option for Abdel for a love triangle. I just don't think it's working very well.

[Keltest]

I think the idea with the sex scene is that Bodhi is, for whatever reason, trying to set up poor narratively unequipped Abdel to do things that he wants to do but knows he shouldn't do. He has the Bhaalspawn impulses to murder and pillage and take what he wants, and to some degree he is aware of that and tries to keep it in check. And here is Bodhi forcing him through magic and circumstance to let loose and do these things that he wants to do but knows he shouldn't. To what end, I don't know. Maybe its tentatively tied to the plot later, maybe Athans is just really bad at this "magic antagonist" thing. I guess we'll find out.

[Honest Tiefling]

I think the idea with the sex scene is that Bodhi is, for whatever reason, trying to set up poor narratively unequipped Abdel to do things that he wants to do but knows he shouldn't do. He has the Bhaalspawn impulses to murder and pillage and take what he wants, and to some degree he is aware of that and tries to keep it in check. And here is Bodhi forcing him through magic and circumstance to let loose and do these things that he wants to do but knows he shouldn't. To what end, I don't know. Maybe its tentatively tied to the plot later, maybe Athans is just really bad at this "magic antagonist" thing. I guess we'll find out.

I am not saying you are wrong, but if this is the case I'd like to think that there's a bit of a difference between rough sex and murder? Else there are a lot of clubs in San Francisco that need to change things about them...

[Keltest]

I am not saying you are wrong, but if this is the case I'd like to think that there's a bit of a difference between rough sex and murder? Else there are a lot of clubs in San Francisco that need to change things about them...

I mean, its not substituting one for the other. He has sex, and he murders someone. Both of them are against his better judgment. That's what she seems like she's trying to break down.

[Khay]

I also think the idea was that Abdel wanted Bodhi, but his attachment to Jahiera held him back.

And here is Bodhi forcing him through magic and circumstance to let loose and do these things that he wants to do but knows he shouldn't. To what end, I don't know. Maybe its tentatively tied to the plot later, maybe Athans is just really bad at this "magic antagonist" thing. I guess we'll find out.

That could be! I can kinda see it now. I think it would be more meaningful if Abdel had actually gone through a character arc in Bhaal must be stopped!, but it's not actually a bad idea. The ritual, for the record, will happen in Chapter Ten and Chapter Eleven, so it'll be a while 'til we see whether there's any payoff.

[Spore]

Perhaps this is a good opportunity to talk about character and party builds in depth?

For BG I prefer a fighter class (or at least a thief) because the game just ... ends when the Bhaalspawn dies. I cannot remember my first BG 1 character but it must have been some sort of fighter because I had the perfect canon party. I struggled with the game as I didn't have the instruction manual and equipped everyone with leather armor as it had the "highest" AC. I redid the game so often but I stayed good. Because in other games (such as Diablo 2 at the time) you always battled evil. I met Xzar and Montaron but they always felt like the "sword of Damocles" to me. A mad wizard and a murder hungry halfling? No thanks.

In BG 2 my Cavalier stayed with the canon party and recruited Aerie as cleric and backup wizard. As well as Nalia. I didn't bother reinviting Imoen though.

So I basicall had:

Good	Cavalier	Minsc	Jaheira	Aerie	Nalia	Keldorn
Neutral	Blade	Jaheira	Jan Jansen	Anomen	Valygar	Haer'Dalis
Evil	Sorcerer	Edwin	Viconia	Korgan	Jan Jansen	(Anomen?)

[Honest Tiefling]

In the one playthrough I actually finished from BG:EE to ToB: EE was a Kensai/Mage with Minsc, Rasaad/Khalid, Nalia/Imoen, Jahiera, and Dynaheir/Mazzy. I wanted the canonical party, and Mazzy was a fun character and a good melee or archer. Tended to charge right in, so Imoen was more than enough theif for a non-subtle party.

[Kish]

Never played EE. Have played all the way through from BG1 through ToB multiple times, though. Always with Imoen (leaving her stuck on Brynnlaw is a little too evil for even an evil character I was playing), usually with Aerie, never with Edwin or Korgan, but I've taken everyone else through at least once. (You may notice a certain alignment trend here.)

[Maryring]

The first time I finished the game, I played as a Mage, all the way from BG1. Pure mage even. My team was Imoen, pure thief, Jaheira and Khalid, Branwen and... forgot who the last one is. I know I brought along Xan, but kicked him out because his voice was annoying, Viconia, but she left because of my reputation and I didn't feel like I should keep her anyway because of her MR... I think my sixth person was Ajantis. But I don't remember for sure.

Come Baldur's Gate 2, I went all the way to ToB with Imoen, Jaheira, Minsc, Aerie and Nalia. Four archmages made the game quite a breeze.

[Honest Tiefling]

I know I brought along Xan, but kicked him out because his voice was annoying...

Reading this made me remember that I toyed with the idea of taking Xan, but dear baby Pelor did his voice annoy me. Go be pessimistic in the bar.

[Maryring]

Reading this made me remember that I toyed with the idea of taking Xan, but dear baby Pelor did his voice annoy me. Go be pessimistic in the bar.

I know right. Listening to him go "we're all doomed" every time I had him do something got so incredibly grating.

Speaking of. I tend to have some revolving slots in my BG2 party just so I can do all the personal side quests. So I ended up with Anomen and Aerie in the party at the same time. Playing a guy this time and I recruited Aerie late, so she spent a lot of time pestering me with her romance conversations. I got three of them in a row. Then she and Anomen strikes up a conversation, and Anomen has this crown jewel of a statement.

"You don't talk much do you?"

Probably a "you had to be there" joke but... yeah. Sometimes the game does a good job of being accidentally hilarious.

[Keltest]

I know right. Listening to him go "we're all doomed" every time I had him do something got so incredibly grating.

Speaking of. I tend to have some revolving slots in my BG2 party just so I can do all the personal side quests. So I ended up with Anomen and Aerie in the party at the same time. Playing a guy this time and I recruited Aerie late, so she spent a lot of time pestering me with her romance conversations. I got three of them in a row. Then she and Anomen strikes up a conversation, and Anomen has this crown jewel of a statement.

"You don't talk much do you?"

Probably a "you had to be there" joke but... yeah. Sometimes the game does a good job of being accidentally hilarious.

I like the implication that Aerie talks a whole lot... just not in front of Anomen.

[Honest Tiefling]

I like the implication that Aerie talks a whole lot... just not in front of Anomen.

Anomen strikes me as the sort of person who can have a months-long relationship in his head, regardless of what the lady does or doesn't do.

I really want to know what Bioware was thinking to offer up a Neckbeard as a romance. Was he supposed to be a snarky deconstruction of a knight in shining armor? And if Aerie knows you're a neckbeard, you might want to dial things back.