Let's Read & Play: Baldur’s Gate II - Bhaal is Dead!

[Keltest]

Unless second edition changed something, Netherese are 1) dark-haired, not blond 2) kinda racist. So mistaking a blonde for one of them is either an accidental stroke of genius, or someone forgot to give Athans some important setting notes. Or he was too busy writing about underage dragon girls to care.

And if you mean that 'Veldrin' means that the main character is announcing they are a spy, I don't think that's the case. I think it's just a matter of what they name their babies, because what else are you going to do, name them after idiotic traits like 'Truth' or 'Light' or 'Brave'? Even drow aren't that cruel!

As for Sarevok, the man just knows how to get the ladies.

I believe that the intent was to compare her to a deliberately designed work of inhuman quality, not the literal Netherese people. Netherese in this case is a comment on the quality of this hypothetical statue, not a literal indication of her intended heritage.

[Honest Tiefling]

Okay, that makes far more sense. Through it does make one wonder if the Netherese just found really pretty people or had some really weird hobbies when it came time to make statues.

[Keltest]

Okay, that makes far more sense. Through it does make one wonder if the Netherese just found really pretty people or had some really weird hobbies when it came time to make statues.

Both. The Netherese were the in universe go-to example for self destructive decadence.

[Honest Tiefling]

Both. The Netherese were the in universe go-to example for self destructive decadence.

"Okay, let's find some really pretty barbarians, capture them, clean them and then force them to wear certain clothes and then we cast Flesh to Stone..."

"Or we could NOT use Mag--"

"Or we COULD use Magic."

[JadedDM]

Unless second edition changed something, Netherese are 1) dark-haired, not blond 2) kinda racist. So mistaking a blonde for one of them is either an accidental stroke of genius, or someone forgot to give Athans some important setting notes. Or he was too busy writing about underage dragon girls to care.

Fifty gold says that Athans wanted to describe her as looking like a Greek statue, but he couldn't say 'Greek' because there is no Greece in Forgotten Realms. So he asked someone to name an ancient FR culture, was told 'Netherese,' and just plugged that word into the sentence.

[Spore]

[Veldrin] is Drow for "concealment."

Maybe this is part of the illusion. His LITERAL name is [redacted] so if questioned about the name later on, the drow just seem to space out where the name belongs. When was an illusion spell ever straight forward?

Wait, so CHARNAME is literally going around Ust Natha announcing that they're a spy?

Drow are stupid like that (no wonder their bonus switched from Int to Cha in 3rd edition). "Oh an enemy spy! I wonder what I can learn from torturing him." Never imagining the scenario where the spy actually is competent and extracts info from YOU.

Reading Salvatore's books about the drow society makes one point clear. If you have at least a small amount of common sense added to your service to Lloth, you are bound to rise like a star. That is until Lolth has a bored sunday evening and everything in your power structure crumbles because of aimed sabotage.

Both. The Netherese were the in universe go-to example for self destructive decadence.

I feel their flying cities were an homage (hommage?) to the Tower of Babel. Can't say much about the decadence.

Fifty gold says that Athans wanted to describe her as looking like a Greek statue, but he couldn't say 'Greek' because there is no Greece in Forgotten Realms. So he asked someone to name an ancient FR culture, was told 'Netherese,' and just plugged that word into the sentence.

My old English teacher always said: If you don't know the word, then describe it rather than use a wrong word or one that provides a different context or uses a different word field.

As an author Athans SHOULD know about the use of adjectives to pinpoint a certain feel for a character or scene.

I didn't appreciate the feeling of being lost [in the Underdark], but perhaps your experience was different? How do you like the introduction to the Underdark?

There wasn't much of an introduction as you were thrown in there. But I liked the way the game presented it. "You think Spellhold was a dungeon? Now here is a huge dungeon, where there are cities and several factions. Have fun!" I like open world exploration which is why I dislike linear dungeons (Irenicus' dungeon is always modded out nowadays for me), so the Underdark was pretty cool after Spellhold.

Furthermore it does much in the way of world-building that helps get a grasp on the concept of the underdark. Illithids are there, duergar, drow, svirfneblin. Diets are focussed on shrooms, raided goods and those weird underground cows. It does a good job of displaying drow and their evil (I mean who steals what is essentially babies to use for magic spells and potions?).

And the evil is reasonable within the world. They need the eggs to please Lolth (or to drain the magic out, I cannot remember) not because baby omelette is a healthy breakfast for every villain. I remember a bit of shellshock and frustration because the underdark is where the game took off the training wheels and allowed the enemy to use instant kill spells, mind control magic and elementals. As well as throwing the first dangerous demons our way. so sadly this was the point where I gave up my severely underprepared Cavalier in favor of an evil sorcerer.

And, secondly, the next chapter will see a certain character return to the plot. Let's see if anyone can guess who it'll be, and how! A few hints:
1.) The character has appeared before.
2.) The character is not native to the Underdark.
3.) Having the character show up at this point in the game would require extensive modding.

Bonus points if you can explain how the character ended up down here - the more convoluted the better.

Is it Maiden Minsc? I feel it is Minsc. Nothing feels quite as stupid as the mentally challenged hamster wrangler show up with a japanese maiden dress, a feather duster and an old tenderiser. So I'll throw my idea. Worried about the absence of Mistress Bodhi Minsc learned she flew to a secluded island just off the coast of Athkatla. So he cleaned up, took a rowboat and rowed out there himself. Found by the asylum guards he was quickly taken in to a promise that tha caretakers will show him Bodhi, of course a lie. Sitting in his cell with his hamster, he overhears a conversation clueing him in where Bodhi is. When eating time arrives, Minsc questions the guard, which deflects all questions. Minsc gets angry, prompting the guard to hit him, but actually killing Boo. This throws Minsc into a rage, killing the guard and escaping. He searches the facility for Bodhi and disrupts a teleportation spell or circle. The resulting magical backlash tears Minsc out of the fabric of space and time, throwing him onto the party. There Minsc is now, in a maiden costume, armed with just a tenderiser and talking to a hamster corpse.

The dead rodent prompts a crying Imoen and a distraught Jaheira. Both forget about the tragedy instantly, just underscoring their weak woman stereotype. Bonus points if Minsc, a decidedly more cool character breaks down too and bawls at the realization his pet hamster is dead. (Game!Minsc would swear vengeance on the killer)

[Keltest]

I bet its that friendly ghoul from the first book, because why the heck not? Athans seems like the kind of author who would do that.

[The Glyphstone]

As opposed to all of the other Drow, who are completely open and have nothing to hide from anybody?

I think there's a difference between having it as a cultural norm and literally wearing it as your name. I'm reminded of a metaplot event from a long-running Vampire LARP where an NPC named Traitre from a clan infamous for being treacherous turned out to be a double agent, and the GMs acted like this would be a shocking plot twist for people. It'd be like naming your kid Benedict Arnold today.

[Keltest]

I think there's a difference between having it as a cultural norm and literally wearing it as your name. I'm reminded of a metaplot event from a long-running Vampire LARP where an NPC named Traitre from a clan infamous for being treacherous turned out to be a double agent, and the GMs acted like this would be a shocking plot twist for people. It'd be like naming your kid Benedict Arnold today.

Ok, but even so, at best it would be an amusing in-joke. "I am not what I claim to be" as if any Drow actually is.

[Khay]

Mark Rosewater's Drive to Work podcast had a fun episode about lesser-known trading card games published by WotC. One of them had this amazing end-of-first-season plot twist where the main character's best friend betrays them and becomes evil. His best friend "Nemesis," to be precise.

[Honest Tiefling]

Maybe it was supposed to be pronounced 'Neme-SAI'. For everyone who gets that reference.

Fifty gold says that Athans wanted to describe her as looking like a Greek statue, but he couldn't say 'Greek' because there is no Greece in Forgotten Realms. So he asked someone to name an ancient FR culture, was told 'Netherese,' and just plugged that word into the sentence.

I do believe there is a Not-Greece in FR, (Chessenta) but it doesn't seem to have established a cultural legacy like Greece did, at least not in the region Baldur's Gate takes place in. Then again, this requires Athans to pay attention to the setting.

[Guancyto]

I think there's a difference between having it as a cultural norm and literally wearing it as your name.

Not even a cultural norm - a cultural virtue. Sneakiness is how the Drow live, and the reason they haven't all had their brains devoured by illithids.

It's like being named Hope or Faith or Charity.

...

No wonder none of the Ust Nathan drow give you respect until you've killed something for them, they're all rolling their eyes and going 'dork' the second your back is turned.

[Honest Tiefling]

No wonder none of the Ust Nathan drow give you respect until you've killed something for them, they're all rolling their eyes and going 'dork' the second your back is turned.

Dear Spider Queen, how stupid can this guy be!? Ugh, they're probably not even a hundred years old, for crying out loud. What do you mean you think they're a spy? Sure. A surfacer came to our city to ANNOY us. Look, no spy would have a name THAT silly, c'mon.

[Khay]

Is it Maiden Minsc? I feel it is Minsc. Nothing feels quite as stupid as the mentally challenged hamster wrangler show up with a japanese maiden dress, a feather duster and an old tenderiser.

Not quiiiiiiiite. Good guess, though! Minsc will actually make another appearance, and it'll be about as reasonable as Magical Girl Maiden Minsc, but that's a few chapters from now.

I have to make a confession: I sort of accidentally overwrote the file for Chapter Fifteen. What you're seeing below was scraped out of the Volume Shadow Copy Service. It should be mostly complete, but I apologise if there's anything weird in there. It doesn't help that the novel is incredibly thin on content in the Ust Natha section (we'll get there, don't worry.)

Spoiler: The book

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The last chapter ended with a dozen drow charging a silver dragon head-on. She iced six of them with her ice breath. Today, we find out what happened to the other six.

Adalon picked up one drow warrior — a man in glittering chain mail — and squeezed so hard his eyes popped out before he died a bloody, bone-shattered wreck. Adalon tossed him to the floor of the cavern in a splatter of gore that made one of his companions leap aside.
Something like a fireball or some other kind of obviously magical fire exploded near the dragon's head, but she just brushed it off and flicked aside the drow who'd cast the spell. The impotent mage hit the wall of the cavern hard enough to crack his head like an egg.

Yeah, that's roughly how you'd expect that to go. The remaining drow break ranks and flee, and Adalon lets most of them get away. Team Abdel mixes in with them.

"We were the advance party," Abdel said, assuming that if it didn't work, he'd probably still be able to kill the lone drow.
The dark elf nodded and sighed, sitting down on the rough stone floor of the dark cavern like a half-empty sack of grain.

Well, Adalon lets at least one of them get away. Silvers are nothing if not merciful. (At least I hope he isn't a sole survivor, because this would look really suspicious otherwise.)

"Who's in charge?" the dark elf asked, opening his eyes and looking directly at Jaheira.
The druid glanced at Abdel, and the drow followed her gaze. His brow wrinkled, and he seemed confused. Abdel was about to claim leadership of the party but realized the drow was finding that unusual for some reason. Abdel looked at Imoen and tilted his head. They'd known each other long enough, and Abdel knew she had a dramatic streak to her that would pick up on what was passing between them and their reluctant new friend.
"I am," Imoen said, her voice regal in her new skin.
The drow nodded and said, "I am Solausein, second to Phaere."

This is not a "Captain Bavarian" situation - it really does say "Solausein." I checked my paper copy and everything. (Shout-out to Thriftbooks. I paid 1 cent plus shipping.) At least this'll make it easy to distinguish between the two portrayals of the character.

Drow society is extremely sexist, but gender roles are (mostly) flipped compared to contemporary Western society. Basically, the women are in charge, because Lolth only accepts female clerics (for the most part). It's still the women who wear the skimpy outfits, though, and men still fight and learn arcane magic. It makes sense that Solausein would instinctively turn to Jaheira.

"I was sent to kill the dragon," Solausein said.
Imoen glanced at Abdel, then said, "We were sent to offer it one more bargain."
Abdel couldn't help but feel a twinge of pride. Imoen could really think on her feet.
"Well," the drow said, "with all due respect, it seems Phaere assumed you would fail."
"Did she assume you would too?" Imoen said with a tilt of one eyebrow.
The drow looked up at her sharply but quickly looked away. (...)
"We should return to Ust Natha," he said, not looking at them.
Imoen smirked at Abdel and said to the drow's back, "You take point."

One of the challenges with an ensemble cast (and indeed with a pen-and-paper D&D group) is to make sure each character actually has something to do. This was a big problem in the first book, where every character other than Abdel was completely worthless. Athans is doing a better job in this novel. We haven't seen much of Imoen yet, but the Underdark chapters flesh out her character a fair bit.

We'll see more of this in the future. For now, we switch viewpoints back to Team Evil:

"All this for a diversionary tactic," Phaere said, staring up at the tall archway of the completed gate. "I will say one thing for you humans, you do think big."
Bodhi regarded her coldly and said, "I haven't been human for a long time, young matron."
Phaere turned to the vampire and smiled, letting her eyes slowly crawl up Bodhi's tight, leather-clad body.
"I stand corrected," she said.

See, I have a pet theory about bad books. It's not a real theory, but I like it. If you want to learn about the beliefs a society, I would argue, you shouldn't just look at its political debates and its high art. Deliberate representations of viewpoints are valuable, because their creators know what they're doing, but it doesn't tell the whole story.
To get a sense of how the society bellyfeels, you should also look at its entertainment, particularly the vaguely crappy genre fiction. Authors like Young Philip Athans have to rely heavily on tropes and stereotypes, because they just aren't particularly good writers. Also, nobody expects much out of a videogame novelization anyway. You get a lot of unreflected, straightforward representation of social attitudes in these books.
So my point is that this section is a real trapped-in-amber moment for the sexual politics of the early 2000s. We get a fumbling attempt at LGBT representation, but it's two attractive women and they're both villains and they'll both die before the end of the book.

... also, Bodhi hasn't been a human ever, but let's not dwell on that. (She's probably keeping Phaere on a need-to-know basis.) This sub-chapter is mostly about the gate, anyway. Which gate, you ask? Well:

When Bodhi turned back to the gate, it was like looking at a rippling pool that was somehow standing perpendicular to the ground. Where she'd been able to see the rounded roofs and tower tops of the drow city of Ust Natha through the archway, now there was only a blue-violet shimmering. There was an audible hum.
"You said you wanted to see it work," Phaere said.
Bodhi smiled at her. "And your army is prepared," the vampire said, again more a warning than a question.

Phaere confirms that an expeditionary force is being prepared, and Irenicus can use them as he wants, as long as she gets the mythal. Bodhi ruminates on this for a while.

Bodhi didn't understand exactly what a mythal was. All she needed to know was that Phaere wanted one badly enough that she'd lead a regiment of drow warriors into the forest of Tethir to get one. The fact that Suldanessellar had no mythal and Irenicus had no intention of getting one for her was something Phaere would have to find out the hard way. By the time she did, Irenicus would be done with whatever it was he needed to do, and they'd be long gone[.]

Heh. This is something that someone like Irenicus would do, and it's something that someone like Phaere would fall for. This is one of a handful of times where the book actually expands on the plot. It's nice to see - I would've liked more of this (and less minotaur wrestling.)

So what's the point of this gate business?

"The people who followed us will be here soon. They've been to see the dragon by now," Bodhi said.
"Amazing," Phaere breathed. "The lengths ... I lost warriors getting those eggs."
"Well," Bodhi said, taking a step closer to the humming gate, "good for you. When the three of them get here, they'll have to think they've succeeded in getting the eggs back. They'll want to escape the city and bring the eggs to the dragon, who they think will send them to Suldanessellar. I’ll have someone here who they'll think is a friend, who'll nudge them in the right direction— through the gate."
(...)
Bodhi smirked. "This gate doesn't lead to the dragon, Phaere. It will bring them where I want them to go."

It's a trap!

This plan strikes me as a little convoluted. Bodhi and Irenicus rely on Team Abdel meeting Adalon, Adalon sending them to Ust Natha, Team Abdel recovering the eggs, and them using the gate as their means of escape. Most of Ust Natha isn't in on the plan, just Phaere's cronies, and we've all seen what Abdel is like. There's a 90% chance he'll do something stupid like, I don't know, eat a live spider or something. Abdel is dull and easily manipulated, but this plan has too many moving parts.

Anyway, speaking of manipulation: I mentioned that this chapter contains a surprise return of an old "friend," courtesy of Bodhi. And it is...

... *drumroll* ...

A small, round-faced man with the features of an elf but the ears of a human stepped tentatively onto the marble tiles of the square in Ust Natha.
"Yoshimo," Bodhi said.
The Kozakuran looked around himself once, his mouth open in awe, and took a moment to find Bodhi.
He smiled weakly and said, "Bodhi, you have most unusual friends."

Yoshimo! Dun dun dunn!

Spoiler: The game

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Last time, Adalon gave us a makeover. (Including Viconia, who already was a drow, but an exile.) Today, we're taking our stylish drow team to Ust Natha.


Screenshot

The doors only open - and the guy only appears - if you've talked to Adalon. You aren't supposed to be able to get into the city without talking to him.

UDDOOR01: Who is there! You are Drow, but there are no scheduled patrols this day! Identify yourselves!
VICONIA: Stand strong, <CHARNAME>. The Drow cower before no one, least of all their own.
VICONIA: I will speak to this worm of a male. You there! We are from the city of Ched Nasad, and you will let us pass. We require rest and the services of your temples!
UDDOOR01: You are welcome within, travelers from Ched Nasad. I regret my tone but all must be examined before entry to Ust Natha.
UDDOOR01: There would normally be an extensive questioning of you, but we were expecting your group from Ched Nasad. Your late arrival has delayed the plans of Solaufein.
UDDOOR01: Enter quickly, and be sure that you seek Solaufein's counsel. He of the Male Fighter's Society will instruct you on your conduct within Ust Natha.
UDDOOR01: Be aware that your welcome is conditional, and that if you fail to meet with him or fail him in any other way, you will be hunted for sport by all that care to join in.
UDDOOR01: The Male Fighter's Society is in the North end of the city, past the Female Fighter's Society and just before the Spider pit.


Journal entry:
Inside the Drow City

It appears that Veldrin, whose form I hold, was expected in the drow city by a drow commander named Solaufein. I am to meet him at the Male Fighters' Society... in the north end of the city past the Female Fighters' Society and just before the Spider Pit. Not doing so would likely look... suspicious.

Dialogue around Ust Natha changes a lot depending on whether CHARNAME is female and whether Viconia is in your party. If you are female or don't have Viconia, you have to bluff your way past the doorkeeper.

Because the Ust Natha questline has a "back door" solution, you can fail the quest. This is your first opportunity to do so, if you (for example) accidentally introduce yourself as <CHARNAME> from the lair of Adalon. ("What? No patrol has returned from that winged serpent's lair alive. No doubt this is some trick of hers and you are exceptionally dim to have tipped me to it!") But we have Viconia, so this is a non-issue.


Screenshot

(Hacker voice) I'm in.

As a nominally civilized area, Ust Natha is pre-explored. The city has a certain gloomy grandeur to it, and it looks like nothing else in the game. Also, giant spiders are roaming freely. I dig it. We'll visit most of those landmarks, but first we need to check in with this Solaufein person.


Screenshot

In case you were wondering, everyone - and I do mean everyone - in Ust Natha is a douchebag. One of the random encounters here is a group of drow who are hunting an escaped slave for sport. Yeah.

Anyway, Solaufein is sulking nearby.


Screenshot

He does not have a portrait, but most of his lines are voice-acted, so you know he's going to be important.

SOLAUFEIN: Ah. You are the newcomers that have been sent my way, I see. As if I do not have enough to accomplish in a day without suffering for the welfare of the weak.
SOLAUFEIN: There is no 'refuge' to be had in Ust Natha, fools. We pay for our existence here with blood and you shall do the same.
SOLAUFEIN: My name is Solaufein, and for now you shall do as I say to prove your worth to the Matron Mothers. Failure is death.
SOLAUFEIN: And just because there are females with you, do not think to challenge me. You are foreigners... no better than slaves until the Matron Mothers say otherwise.
SOLAUFEIN: Pfeh! I suppose I should get your shepherding underway. Have you a name, vagrant? Or shall I simply refer to you as the <PRO_MALEFEMALE>?
CHARNAME: Call me whatever you like. It obviously doesn't matter.
SOLAUFEIN: Ha ha! I like your spirit! I'd name you Waela, the fool, but I am told your name is Veldrin. That spirit will serve you well, if you know when to quelch it.
SOLAUFEIN: No matter. One of the Matron Mothers has taken an interest in your arrival and wishes to avail herself of your skills.
SOLAUFEIN: She has sent a Handmaiden to speak with you at the entrance platform to the city. I shall be there, no doubt, to herd you on your mission like a nursing mother.
SOLAUFEIN: I will go to seek her out now. If you are intelligent, you will go to the entrance platform quickly. The Handmaidens are notoriously impatient.
VICONIA: I advise caution in this place. We are fortunate not to be taken hostage as foreigners and sold as slaves. If they mean for us to prove our place, we must serve the Matrons utterly.
VICONIA: Any misstep, no matter how slight, will draw the attention of the Spider Queen's watchers. And no doubt they are already curious of us... we do not need their scrutiny, yes?
VICONIA: Remember: absolute obedience to those of greater rank, especially the Handmaidens of Lolth and the Matron Mothers. To those of equal or lesser rank: no mercy.
VICONIA: Otherwise, take advantage of whatever favor is thrown your way. For ones such as us, it is the only way to achieve what you are not born to. No mercy. It is our way.

Journal entry:
Inside the Drow City

I am inside Ust Natha, and have been assigned a Drow commander, Solaufein, who does not appreciate my presence in the slightest. He says that I have aroused the interest of a Matron Mother, and I am to meet him and a 'Handmaiden' at the entrance to the city to receive further instruction from her. I cannot stumble now that I am within... the slightest error on my part and the dark elves will discover what I truly am. Nothing would save me then.

This is a good summary of how this is going to go down. You'll be assigned a quest, Solaufein will bicker for a while, and then you have to go somewhere with a strict time limit. The game isn't kidding when it tells you to hurry up - everything in Ust Natha is on a timer. In this case, we are to meet a priestess near the city entrance.


Screenshot

There is a variable that tracks Solaufein's attitude towards you (fittingly called SolaufeinLikes.) I'll try to show off at least some of the differences in the dialogue, so the screenshot here shows what you get when SolaufeinLikes is 0, while the dialogue dump below is about a SolaufeinLikes of 1. (The screenshots will catch up in a bit, don't worry.)

SOLAUFEIN: You have come. Good. Your time in Ust Natha will be far less unpleasant if you continue to perform as you are commanded in a timely fashion.
SOLAUFEIN: As I said, a Matron Mother has designated a task for us. Imrae, favored of Lolth, this is the traveler from Ched Nasad who might be of great use.
IMRAE: Your story has been verified so far, Veldrin of Ched Nasad, and that is why you have not been sold as a lowly slave or made an amusement in the tavern... but you still have no place, here!
IMRAE: You are fortunate, indeed, that many of our finest warriors are busy with... preparations. Elsewhere. Fortunate enough that a Matron Mother has decided to make use of you.
IMRAE: Cling to that sole hope, worms, and do not fail the Matron Mother... for if you do, the horrors of your punishment shall be far more terrible than had we beset you at the gate!
IMRAE: Explain what has occurred, Solaufein. And be quick about it, male, for the Spider Queen demands my attention.
SOLAUFEIN: At once, Handmaiden. If I were to speak of the devourers, Veldrin... you would know what of I speak, yes?
CHARNAME: You mean the illithid? Yes, I know what they are.
SOLAUFEIN: Yes, I believe that is the name they call themselves... very intelligent of you. The psions have long been one of our fiercest enemies.
SOLAUFEIN: A Matron Mother's eldest daughter ran afoul of devourers while scouting. Her fool companions fled or were slaughtered, and she was taken captive.
SOLAUFEIN: They know a prize when they have one, the devourers. They will bring the daughter to their city, and should they reach it she shall be lost forever.
SOLAUFEIN: With the... preparations... of the armies, we are the only ones who can intercept these devourers. We must go to their cavern entrance and wait for them.
SOLAUFEIN: Handmaiden Imrae has given me a blessed item of Lolth that will pull the devourers from their astral travel there... and it is there we must pounce.
SOLAUFEIN: The Matron Mother has no desire to see her eldest daughter become a snack for the devourers, so we must not fail! Do you understand, Veldrin?
CHARNAME: I am to meet you at the entrance to the illithid caverns and ambush some illithid who have a Matron Mother's daughter captive.
SOLAUFEIN: Exactly. The illithid tunnels are in the southeast portion of the main Underdark cavern. I will be scouting and you will find me there when you arrive.
SOLAUFEIN: We do not expect the illithids for some time, yet, so you have the opportunity to rest and resupply yourself, if that is what you wish to do.
SOLAUFEIN: You must meet me at the entrance to the illithid tunnels within the next twelve hours, no more. Do not be late.
IMRAE: Indeed. There are many exquisite horrors that may be found for you in the Demonweb Pits, should you fail. And if you decide to run, the driders will eventually track you down.
IMRAE: As for you, Solaufein... the Matron Mother expects even better from you. Report to the temple before you leave the city.
SOLAUFEIN: As... as you wish, Handmaiden.


Journal entry:
Inside the Drow City

I have been assigned the task of rescuing a Matron Mother's daughter from the illithids that have captured her. I am to meet Solaufein near the entrance to the illithid city, in the southeast portion of the main cavern area, where he will draw the illithids from their astral travel. I should delay as little as possible.

Once again, Solaufein isn't kidding - you have twelve hours, no more. If you don't show up, you fail the questline. It's enough time to rest and make the journey, but no more than that.


Screenshot

Devourers are not to be trifled with, so you should buff your party before you talk to Solaufein. You'll have a few more rounds after you initiate dialogue, though.

SOLAUFEIN: Good, you are here. I was beginning to wonder how long I would have to remain waiting amongst these forsaken rocks before you showed up.
SOLAUFEIN: But your timing could not be better. I sense that the illithids will come within range, soon, and I may safely pull them out of the astral plane.
SOLAUFEIN: Have you a question before the battle, Veldrin? Make it quick.
CHARNAME: I'm sorry about you being punished, I didn't mean to anger the Handmaiden.
SOLAUFEIN: You are not very drow, to show such a weakness as sympathy. Keep your heart as steel and destroy the illithids. This will please me more than an apology.
SOLAUFEIN: Although I... appreciate... the thought behind your words. Handmaiden Imrae enjoyed adminstering her punishment excessively. It was... difficult.
SOLAUFEIN: But enough talk. I sense the illithids' approach. Wait and I shall bring them out of the astral plane when they come close.

It may strike you as odd that the dark elves are constantly calling things out as being drow-like or not drow-like. But, once again, drow society is exactly that dumb.

Anyway, devourers.


Screenshot

A few illithids and a few umber hulks teleport in. Solaufein and Phaere have to survive this battle, but the enemies don't tend to target them, so as long as you're careful with Fireballs, you should be able to get through this encounter.

PHAERE: It is about time that my captors were finally defeated. Hmph. I was beginning to think that they would reach their illithid city, after all.
SOLAUFEIN: Greetings, Phaere, daughter of Ardulace. I trust you are uninjured?
PHAERE: Who is that? Solaufein? So... Matron Mother sent you, did she? How that must gall you, risking your life to save mine.
SOLAUFEIN: I did as I was commanded.
PHAERE: Yes, you did... as any male should. You have done well enough, I suppose, you and your... assistance. Hmmmn... who is this <PRO_MALEFEMALE> with you?
SOLAUFEIN: That one? That is --
PHAERE: I am sure <PRO_HESHE> can speak for <PRO_HIMHER>self, male. Am I correct? You have a tongue, yes? Who might you be?
CHARNAME: I am Veldrin of Ched Nasad.
PHAERE: Indeed? A foreigner? How very odd. We shall have to speak more, you and I, once we are back in Ust Natha.
PHAERE: I shall head back to the city on my own and inform the Matron Mother of your... successful service, Solaufein. You have proven useful. You should be grateful.
SOLAUFEIN: You are going to return on your own? No! What if you encounter danger once again?! I shall not be responsible for --
PHAERE: I appreciate your touching 'concern', but I can handle myself, Solaufein. And it is my command, so you have no choice. Farewell.

<PHAERE leaves by way of Dimension Door.>

SOLAUFEIN: Blasted, arrogant wench! May the Spider Queen bite at her black heart!
SOLAUFEIN: I shall follow her, to ensure her over-confidence does not endanger us all. Return to the city on your own, Veldrin. I shall meet you at the city's entrance.

Journal entry:
Inside the Drow City

I rescued the Matron Mother's daughter, Phaere. She knew Solaufein, and also showed a passing interest in me. She went back to the city on her own. Solaufein followed, commanding that I meet him inside the city entrance soon.

These two have some history together, I think. This goes far beyond baseline drow hostility.

Solaufein then Dimension Doors away. Well have to go back to Ust Natha on our own.


Screenshot

Phaere and Solaufein are waiting for us near the entrance platform.

SOLAUFEIN: You have returned, finally. Good. Bad enough that I had to worry over Phaere's safe return, I was not about to start concerning myself over yours.
IMRAE: Yes. The daughter of the Matron Mother is safely returned. You have done an excellent service. I am told the Matron Mother is pleased.
IMRAE: Phaere has also sent a command to you which must not be ignored. You are to meet her in the tavern here in the city. She wishes to speak with you, although I cannot wonder why.
IMRAE: She asks for you, too, Solaufein. You are all to rest and relax in the tavern as a... reward... for your service.
SOLAUFEIN: But, Handmaiden, I have no wish to --
IMRAE: Do you wish to earn punishment a second time, male? You shall do as she says. She shall see all of you at the tavern within a day's time, no more. That is all.

Journal entry:
Inside the Drow City

I have returned to the city to meet Solaufein, where we were told by Imrae that we had done well. She also informed us that we were to report to the drow tavern within a day to meet Phaere once again... to be rewarded, apparently.

Somehow the notion of drow rewards fills me with almost as much dread as the notion of drow punishments. We can check out the tavern, th-


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Oh. This sounds suspiciously like a sidequest. The duergar asks us to step up to the tank, so that's what we do.

🐟 DAABOL: Hear me... hear my thoughts in your mind... I am ambassador... but I have a service I demand of you... one that you will perform discreetly and with haste.
CHARNAME: Why would I stoop to working for you, fish?
🐟 DAABOL: You will stoop... if I so command... SURFACER! I can see it in your thoughts... clearly! Do you wish this secret announced? To the mind of every Drow within the city?
🐟 DAABOL: No, I did not think that you would. You will do as I ask, and you will walk away free. I care not why you are here. The concerns of your kind are worthless.
🐟 DAABOL: You will do the task I set before you, or your identity will appear in the mind of every Drow within this city. Are my thoughts clear? Good.
🐟 DAABOL: I ask of you... I command a deed of violence. I call for a death, that I might learn more of this place. It is simple, brutal, and more suited to you than my petty servant here.
🐟 DAABOL: Qilue... a priestess... I would learn of her faith and the power it grants. Her mind is the prize, and I would have you bring it!
CHARNAME: Kidnap a Priestess? She will not cooperate.
🐟 DAABOL: I do not require her as a whole. As I said, it is her mind that I require. Kill her. Slay her in her home and temple. Retrieve her brain, and bring it to me.
🐟 DAABOL: That is the task. That is the command I give. You will obey, or I reveal you, and you die. That is your choice.
CHARNAME: So you contend to hold me in service against my will, to perform this evil task?
🐟 DAABOL: That is what I have just directed, yes.

You do have a choice here, actually. You can do as directed, kill Qilue and carve out her brain. There's no real reward beyond the combat EXP. Alternatively...

CHARNAME: No, no, I don't think that is how this is going to work, fish.
🐟 DAABOL: Fish? Perhaps I have not made my thoughts clear.
CHARNAME: Oh no, I understand completely. I simply refuse. What's more, I'm telling you to shut up.
🐟 DAABOL: I have outlined the threat I intend. I do not bluff. Fear me.
CHARNAME: You are in no postition to act on your threats. I will tell *you* what to do.
🐟 DAABOL: I have warned you!
CHARNAME: And I have listened. I do not fear you, and I will do nothing for you.
🐟 DAABOL: What?
CHARNAME: You cannot harm me or I will expose you too. I die, you die. Simple. So shut up!
🐟 DAABOL: You are a strange individual. I release you to avoid trouble for us both. Leave me, volatile one.
CHARNAME: A pleasure to have made your acquaintance.

Much better.

Anyway, let's check out the tavern.


Screenshot

It doesn't look comfortable, exactly, but it certainly is rather fancy. A lot of drow are hanging out here, including our special friends.

PHAERE: Ah! So Veldrin arrives at last to greet the female that <PRO_HESHE> rescued so valiantly from the clutches of the filthy devourers!
SOLAUFEIN: Ah. I must have been invisible and uninvolved during that encounter, I see.
PHAERE: I was speaking to Veldrin, Solaufein. When I speak to you, it shall be to command you to lick my boot. Keep your bitterness silent or lose your tongue.
PHAERE: Now, ignore your emasculated commander's outburst, Veldrin, and consider this a time for reward and enjoyment. Mother Ardulace was pleased by your performance.
PHAERE: Solaufein's abilities are known to her, but she was delighted to learn you are such a powerful fighter. Ust Natha could use such as you, Veldrin.
PHAERE: Amongst the drow, only the strong survive... You could have slaves at your beck and call, rewards at your fingertips... the favor of Lolth. How does this sound?
CHARNAME: What's the catch?
PHAERE: The catch is that you have to earn that favor, Veldrin. Favor and comforts are not given out lightly... they must be purchased with blood and sacrifice.
SOLAUFEIN: Why don't you go ahead and carve out <PRO_HISHER> heart now, Phaere? You will get to that part eventually, won't you?
PHAERE: Silence! Not all drow forget that sometimes a reward is worth spending a part of yourself... or everything. It is a lesson you would do well to re-learn.
PHAERE: Seeing as you are so capable, Veldrin, you and Solaufein have been given another task to complete for the greater glory of Lolth.
PHAERE: You will meet me on the city platform, away from curious ears. But not right away... rest and amuse yourselves for a time. I shall be here awhile.
PHAERE: After I leave take no longer than a few days before you meet with me on the platform. This is as the Matron Mother commands, and so shall it be.


Journal entry:
Inside the Drow City

I have met Phaere, the daughter of the Matron Mother, at the tavern as commanded. It seems her Mother is very interested in me and we are to perform another task. After Phaere leaves, Solaufein and I are to meet her within a few days at the city entrance to receive further instructions. Until then, my time is my own.

You can start flirting with Phaere if you wish (and if your CHARNAME is male), but we already have a dysfunctional drow relationship going with Viconia. We'll pass for now.

You have a few days to spend however you see fit. Let's kick things off by having a drink with Solaufein.


Screenshot

Delicious bonus exposition.

SOLAUFEIN: What is it, Veldrin? I wish nothing more than to be left on my own and beyond the clutches of that Despana witch.
CHARNAME: What's the deal between you and Phaere, anyway?
SOLAUFEIN: That is something I would rather not discuss, Veldrin. With you or with anyone.
SOLAUFEIN: Suffice it to say that I have had dealings with Phaere and House Despana once before. Due to my own alliances, however, they cannot take proper revenge. Yet.
CHARNAME: Do you know anything about dragons in these caverns?
SOLAUFEIN: Eh? Dragons? Dragon-kind can be found throughout the Underdark, Veldrin, as I'm sure you well know. Some walk amongst our kind, when it suits them.
SOLAUFEIN: But in the vicinity of Ust Natha, I would have to say no... there are few dragon-kind found here. The most dangerous were driven off long ago.
SOLAUFEIN: It is said there is an ancient dragon of silver that guards the old passages to the surface, where our hated cousins live. Perhaps the stories are true.
CHARNAME: What is there to do, here?
SOLAUFEIN: There are many entertainments to please even the most cruel or lustful amongst us, Veldrin. I am sure you can find something. I, myself, am rather uninterested.
CHARNAME: I'll be on my way, then.
SOLAUFEIN: As you wish.

Yeah, I'm definitely thinking there's something weird going on between the two. Solaufein gives her a lot more back-talk than would normally be expected, given the difference in social standing. Also, note that Adalon is subject to need-to-know rules.
There actually isn't that much to do in Ust Natha. There are a few vendors you can talk to, and the tavern has a fighting pit. You can also talk to the other patrons at the tavern, but this update is already running long, so we'll leave that for a future update.

Allegedly, the tavern has some lust pits. Let's see what those look like.


Screenshot

They look like a normal inn, apparently.

So... this hasn't been mechanically important since the first 20% of Baldur's Gate 1, but when you rest at an inn, you are given a choice of rooms to book. There are four types of room, and the more you pay, the more HP you recover. The Ust Natha Tavern is the one place in the game that offers only the hideously expensive Royal-quality rooms. It's a great touch.

Unfortunately, our stay is... less than restful.


Screenshot

Another dream. Candlekeep is visibly breaking apart now. The rifts in the ground probably aren't a good sign.

IMOEN: You came too late. Didn't I say you would come too late? You will learn to trust me.
IMOEN: Don't be afraid. You are safe here... if you behave. I will show you what fills the void. What is now free.
CHARNAME: You are not Imoen. She said she has not had any dreams like these.
IMOEN: I lurk behind your soul, in the very fiber of your being. I am the only thing left when mind and reason are stripped away.
IMOEN: I will show you what you can be, what you can do... if you simply let yourself become what you are.
IMOEN: I can show you all of this, because I am within. I am what fills the void. I am you.

What... is this? It can't be our soul, because we lost that to Irenicus. Is it the Bhaal-taint? I thought that was interwoven with our soul. Or maybe it was our soul. If this is the instinct, then why did "Imoen" help us against the Bhaal-thing in the previous dream...?

Imoen is not interested in answers.


Screenshot

But she does have things to show us. Imoen turns into the slayer and kills our party, including the other Imoen, then drags us upstairs.


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We return to the lecture hall. Imoen arranged some props, it seems. She turns us into the slayer before continuing her speech, to make sure we ļiste͏n.̛

IMOEN: You are to be given a gift. It is a valuable prize, one that you had better appreciate.
IMOEN: You worry for your comrades perhaps? Leave them, abandon them, and become what you must.
IMOEN: There is great power in your heritage. Use it, and you will become closer to who you are... what you could be.

Ǵǫod.

IMOEN: Feel what is in the void. Use the tools that you are given. Become part of something greater. I am in you, and I know what is best.
IMOEN: Each time you use it, each time you accept it, you move a little closer to the evil within.
IMOEN: Perhaps you lose yourself in the end, but you will go to a greater reward than you can know.
IMOEN: After all, what does an eternity of nothingness matter, when you can destroy all that would oppose your development as easy as "one"...

Screenshot

O̷ne.


Screenshot

T̛w̵o.


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TH͠R̶E̴Ȩ.


Screenshot

F̧͞O͘U̸Ŗ.͞҉


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Five.


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Well that was disturbing.

Actually, one more thing:


Screenshot

This little message right here? This is art. It's the perfect follow-up to the bombastic and disturbing dream we just had. It's couched in nice and comfortable and videogame-y language, telling you that you just got a powerup, but it represents something incredibly bad for CHARNAME. Use the tools that you are given, indeed.

Anyway, we have a city to infiltrate, so let's get going. We'll discuss the Slayer another time. Let's see what Phaere wants.


Screenshot

Dang. Male drow who show this much backbone usually don't live long. I wonder what kind of game Solaufein is playing.

PHAERE: Ah, you have finally come. Good. Your timing is excellent, as I had just arrived here recently, myself. I trust you are ready to leave presently.
SOLAUFEIN: What, exactly, are we to be ready for, Phaere? Why have you brought us out here? Is this some fool ambition of yours?
PHAERE: None of my ambitions are foolish, Solaufein. And we are here to perform a service for the good of the city and the Matron Mother.
SOLAUFEIN: I wasn't aware Mother Ardulace did anything 'for the good of the city'.
PHAERE: Silence! You will obey, male! An eye tyrant... a beholder... is in the city, smuggling adamantine. The Matrons have decided we are to kill it.
SOLAUFEIN: What is this?! Did you say 'we'?
PHAERE: I did. I am to join you in this duty. The eye tyrant has come on his Spelljammer ship, near here. Solaufein and I will go and scout it out, alone.
PHAERE: Veldrin... I trust you can find your own way to the ship. It is off one of the platforms in the southeast of Ust Natha. Do not take too long to catch up.
PHAERE: Come, Solaufein. We can catch up on 'old times'.

Journal entry:
Inside the Drow City

Phaere intends to join myself and Solaufein in attacking a beholder that has been smuggling adamantite. The beholder has come to the drow city on a Spelljammer ship off a platform in the southeast part of the city, and I am to meet Phaere and Solaufein there.

Why do all of our adventures seem to come back to illegal trading of metals? I hope this eye tyrant won't turn out to be our half-brother. That would be awkward.

Also, Spelljammer ships are super cool, and I'm kind of upset that there wasn't ever an Infinity Engine RPG based on the Spelljammer setting. We don't even get to see the ship, which is vaguely upsetting.


Screenshot

There's an arena situation instead.

PHAERE: Veldrin! Finally! We have been watching the crew leave the ship for their rest, and I suspect the eye tyrant is soon to follow! We must be ready!
SOLAUFEIN: Concentrate all of your effort upon the eye tyrant, Veldrin. And do not bring harm to Phaere or myself... such 'accidents' happen far too often for my liking.
PHAERE: Hmph. Indeed... although I can -- wait! Wait, be still! It comes, I sense it! Be ready!!

Journal entry:
Inside the Drow City

Solaufein has warned me that I should bring no accidental harm to himself or Phaere when we engage the beholder. Such 'accidents' happen too often in drow society and no doubt I will be held accountable for such.

Don't worry, we're not going to harm you... yet.

This is a relatively straightforward Beholder fight, to the extent that any fight with an eye tyrant can be straightforward. Just kill it before it can do anything fancy.


Screenshot

Like so.

SOLAUFEIN: A most brilliant victory! The Spider Queen smiles on us today! We have spat in the great eye of the eye tyrants and live to tell the tale!
PHAERE: Indeed. Well done. Do not disturb the carcass, however. There will be several acolytes coming to deal with it.
SOLAUFEIN: Deal with it? What do you speak of, Phaere? Why would acolytes wish to do anything with the corpse of an eye tyrant?
PHAERE: Ask me no questions, Solaufein. We shall return to report to the Matron Mothers. Veldrin... I will see you again in the tavern in three days.
SOLAUFEIN: What is going on, here, Phaere? This is too suspicious.
PHAERE: Do as you are commanded, male, and live. Veldrin, journey about the city at your will... but remember our meeting. Do not be late!

Journal entry:
Inside the Drow City

Now that the beholder is dead, Phaere and Solaufein have gone to report to the Matron Mothers. Phaere has commanded me to meet with her again in the tavern within three days.

Any given drow should be assumed to be involved in at least three conspiracies at any given time. It's really the only way to survive in drow society.

That said, this really is suspicious. The drow are clearly planning... something. No idea where the dragon eggs went, but I find it hard to believe that this is just a crazy coincidence.

We'll try to find out more about this... next time.

Spoiler: Comparison and commentary

Show

There isn't that much to discuss here, to be honest. This is another one of those chapters that set up for a payoff that'll never come, as we'll learn shortly. Yoshimo's return is going to be... questionable... but let's talk about that when he meets up with the party.

So, about the plot... Abdel has spent most of the series dancing on the puppet strings of some villain or other. This goes back to the previous book. Sarevok's plan in Bhaal must be Stopped! was nonsense, but he always intended for Abdel to survive and muck things up, and he occasionally intervened to make sure Abdel's investigation remained on track. In this book, our hero was doing Bodhi's bidding and allowed himself to be lured to Spellhold. The infiltration of Ust Natha, too, appears to be part of Irenicus' plans. All according to keikaku.

Abdel has always been a pawn in some villainous scheme, starting in the first chapter of the first book. I've talked about this in the previous thread, but it bears repeating: This is a valid way to set up your plot. The game does this too, if to a smaller extent. However, it's starting to overstay its welcome. See, Abdel is an incredibly frustrating character. He never shows any initiative and he never thinks to question the information presented to him. He relies on the plot to keep kicking him where he needs to be, and when he gets there, he relies entirely on luck and coincidence to make it through. At this point, I have zero confidence that this time will be different.

So when you set up a plot like this - where the hero is unwittingly playing into the villain's hands - there has to be a confrontation. In all but the very bleakest works, there'll be a moment when the hero realizes they are being played or where the hero's actions (deliberate or otherwise) cause the scheme to derail. Since we're on an accelerated plot schedule, this moment will be in... Chapter Sixteen.

So, yeah. The next chapter will resolve this, in a way. It won't be satisfying, but it will be... well, let's just say that I didn't expect the plot to go into that specific direction.

As for AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION... this is a very short chapter without much in it, so consider this to be an open thread until the next update. I mean, it always is, but... more so than usual, now. I've noticed that some of you have mentioned replaying the games, which is definitely cool. Tell us about your more off-the-wall character builds and about any cool things that happened in your playthrough, perhaps? That sounds pretty good. I think I need to hear about some CHARNAMEs that aren't... Abdel.

[Kish]

The illithid who kidnapped Phaere are, as far as I know, the only illithid in the game who have no magic resistance. You can wipe out their whole party with a single Death Spell.

[Maryring]

And good is that because Illithids can be a huge pain. Unless this was added in a mod, there's a shopkeeper nearby who has scrolls of Death Spell, meaning that the only illiths you have to fight can be beaten without anyone's brain getting eaten.

Also, replaying the game has made me realize that I want to play another game like this, but perhaps using the 3.5 ruleset. It really is a shame since the whole DnD lineup and the campaigns you run on the system would be fun to add in computer games.

Maybe as a campaign maker base system or something. That'd be cool... but I'm mostly rambling now ain't I. Sorry.

[Honest Tiefling]

See, I have a pet theory about bad books. It's not a real theory, but I like it. If you want to learn about the beliefs a society, I would argue, you shouldn't just look at its political debates and its high art.

You'd probably be surprised of how much anthropological work is dedicated to this very topic, especially of works you don't want to mention in public. I wouldn't be surprised if there were already several papers on the Twilight series alone. If you are interested in the subject, look up Pompeii, the Roman city that was reburied by the guy who discovered it out of sheer embarrassment.

And Marying? Don't play Neverwinter Nights or Neverwinter Nights 2 (3.0ish and 3.5, respectively). Their campaigns are really not up to the standards of BG/BG:II. For instance, you can go on a bloody rampage and kill everyone you meet...And a paladin will still work with you, else the plot breaks. She just lectures you a bit. Perhaps I'm giving Baldur's gate too much credit, but it existed in a time where there simply wasn't a lot so I'm willing to give it slack, even with its weird moments.

As for the Audience participation...I was incredibly unoriginal, and went with a optimistic, brash young Kensai/Fighter because I'm not good at any videogame. Yeah, cheap, but fight me irl. I just figured I'd go with reckless as a personality trait as I'd inevitably screw up some quests.

[Guancyto]

That particular iteration of villainous plan (the one where the hero is unwittingly dancing on the bad guy's strings all along, and the bad guy is not his mentor or the like) is something that bothers me immensely whenever it crops up without a lot of solid justification. Except when it's done really, really well, it always seems like it's just a silly device to get the hero to follow a nonsensical plot. It bothers me even more in this case because the games didn't do that. Both Sarevok and Irenicus have one big thing they trick the PC into doing (kill the Iron Throne leaders and confront Irenicus in Spellhold, respectively). In each case this is a thing that the PC very much wants to do anyway, except in both cases the fix is in and the antagonists have stacked the deck in their favor (doppelgangers/Ulruant in Sarevok's case, Yoshimo/Saemon in Irenicus') but if the plan went off the rails you get the impression they'd be very much up to the task of making a new plan.

The books, meanwhile, have the antagonist leading the protagonist around by the nose at every juncture, and there doesn't seem to be any Plan B for what happens if literally anything goes wrong. Without even delving into Book Sarevok's stupid, inexplicable barely-plan, what would Book Irenicus even do if Abdel one morning tripped over his own feet and broke his neck?

For audience participation... hoo boy. So Baldur's Gate II has kind of been my comfort food over the years. When you stack up the amount I've played it compared to, say, Skyrim, it probably doesn't look so bad but, well, I've played it a lot of times.

My first go at the game was an evil elven sorcerer; I got relatively far along before I found out that siding with Bodhi too early had permanently locked me out of recruiting Edwin, and also that Viconia had no interest in elves. Scrapped it in late Chapter 3.

Plenty of unfinished runs here and there, but the ones that completed, I think were...

• Good Elven Mage. Romanced Aerie, pretty blasty in nature because Aerie had support covered solid. My first successful run, it gave me a real liking for a party with two and a half mages. Actually finished SoA with five people because before ToB rolled around, the end of Aerie's romance arc has her leave to go explore the world and being the sap I was, I let her.
• Evil Half-Orc Fighter. Absolutely straightforward high strength, heavy armor and two-hander build, was a huge jerk to everyone and got away with it.
• Good Human Paladin (Undead Hunter). JUSTICE RAINS FROM ABOVE. As much ham as possible, but also the same absolutely straightforward high strength, heavy armor and two-hander build. ToB actually released while I was on this playthrough, so a character built around Carsomyr suddenly wasn't top dog any more. Romanced Anomen (god help us all). Became a good god.
• Evil Human Kensai/Mage. The full twink build, I think I even named him "Minmax." Romanced Viconia. Was less of a jerk to everyone, but became an evil god so hooray for diplomacy? Also: a full evil party (Korgan/Edwin/Viconia) has some extra dialogue in the Underdark, mostly the two boys giving Viconia a hard time about being an outcast from drow society.
• Good Human Thief/Mage. My first attempt at a solo game, it wound up becoming a duo when Jaheira (who I had ditched in Chateau Irenicus) started initiating romance dialogues when I visited her at the Harper Hold despite not being in my party. That duo ended up becoming a trio because I decided I didn't want to leave Imoen behind. Still massively overlevel, and let me tell you, Planetars make short work of Spellhold. Got to play Jaheira's entire storyline twice, as the bug also had both non-romance and romance script triggers running for her at the same time.
• Good Half-Elf Wild Mage. New ToB subclass ahoy! Romanced Tashia, a mod sorceress.
• Neutral Human Thief (Assassin). Was Rogue Buddies with (and romanced) Fade, a mod thief.
• Neutral Elven Sorcerer - Sorcerers are crazy overpowered in ToB. This was my first proper solo game, also known as How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Mordenkainen's Sword.
• Good Human Cavalier. Had modded the game sufficiently to romance all three Bioware ladies, ran a dual-wielding build with the Purifier and Crom Faeyr that was properly blender-like.
• Good Elven Ranger (Archer). Teamed up with Mazzy for UNPARALLELED FIREPOWER. With Improved Haste and ToB abilities, it really is hard to beat nineteen criticals per round just from the archers in the party.
• Good Half-Elf Sorcerer. Pumped Wisdom to get the best Wishes to let a Mage-heavy party cast and summon for days. Tried out Anomen for experimentation for the sake of this very thread, wound up killing him because there really is justice in the world. Became a good god.

[Calemyr]

I've replayed the game multiple times, but tend to tire out in BG1 and ToB, which are pretty darn boring. The characters I play the most are as follows:

Spoiler: My characters:

Show

Current games:
------------------

Charname ("Shar-na-meh"): Female Human Undead Hunter. Mainly because I wanted to see Hexxat's stuff and UH Paladin seemed an amusing way to do so. Paladins should never be as cheerful as Char, especially paladins dating a vampire. Also travels with Wilson, because I've always wanted to have a bear in the party as well. (Char's game is on my phone, so I have something to do when bored.)

Abdel Adrian: Human Skald. My headcannon is that Athan's book is the absurdist bard version of the truth, while the real Abdel was a guy with a passionate fascination with everything (fighting, thieving, learning, and magic), but really had a gift for battlefield command (Skald Bardsong). Play him as an ADD character in an AD&D setting. Unlike Char, Abdel is a full EE trilogy character, playing through BGEE, Siege of Dragonspear, and BG2EE and thus is my "canon" character. I've tried to do a creative writing playthrough of his story, portrayed as a set of interviews between an aspiring bard and members of the party 20 years after the fact, but it didn't attract much interest.

Past Favorites:
-----------------

Ardgeihn: Human Kensai/Mage. Give him axes and he's death incarnate no matter the situation. Kind of a barbarian hero, no real guile but a real sense of visceral inevitability. Haven't played him in EE. Might enjoy it. Tended to favor Jaheira.

Seih: Human Fighter/Swashbuckler. EE him so that he gets his kit on the second class instead of the standard. Quarterstaff fighter extraordinaire, later picking up the katana as skill point back up. Heavy on the guile whenever I can use it. Don't usually play him with a romance, though I've played him once or twice with Aerie.

Sienna: Human Dragon Disciple. Much like Char, Sienna is just a playful and fun character - which works wonders juxtaposed to Dorn and Rasaad, both of whom she runs circles around and wraps around her finger. DD is an interesting kit, trading a one spell slot per level for a boatload of innate abilities that stack with gear and an increasing CON that can get her innate regeneration fairly easily. Pair her with a generalist wizard (or better, a wild mage like Neera), and you have both a blaster mage and a Batman mage, enjoying the versatility and power at the same time. I usually head-cannon her as drawing from Bhaal's blood rather than a draconic source, and so mod the Slayer script to remove the penalty for taking the shape (though not the time limit), as it's a form she's uncomfortably comfortable with. She fights with daggers and sometimes I also mod the Daystar to count as a dagger (as a Sunblade, it should also work as a weapon two sizes smaller. Bastard Sword > Long Sword > Short Sword becomes Long Sword > Short Sword > Dagger.).

Xean: Human (possibly Half-orc) Shaman. I keep wanting to try this girl, but the class just isn't as fun as it should be: a Gypsy-like dancer who turns the spirit world against her foes. Sadly, the class's dance ability is pretty useless, druidic spells lack the versatility to make spontaneous casting worth it, and weapon skills that would be cool if a priest's THAC0 wasn't crap. I keep trying to make her, and keep getting bored ten minutes in.

Torr: Human Monk. Wanted to be a priest of Ohgma, they said "no, but we can teach you to wrestle". Useless early on, but by the end of the game bringing a party just slows him down. Mainly a classic character, back when BG1 was completely unplayable. Now, BG1EE with a monk is just mostly unplayable.

Neithan: Half-elf Fighter/Mage/Thief. A good one-stop shop for my day-to-day needs. Leaves me pretty free to use whatever party I like at any time. Haven't played him in ages, but he's always a good call when I want to try some random party combination.

Scion: Half-elf Ranger/Cleric. Mainly before an update fixed the Ranger/Cleric exploit, but they were kind enough to include a setting that lets you turn it back on. My favorite phone BGEE character, because he's an effective fighter/buffer/scout/healer and removes the need for a healer from my party. This is good because I like having NPC's be part of the story and the NPCs in BG1 suck - leaving me with either the BG1NPC mod (not viable on a phone) or the new characters with BGEE, none of which are a healer. As such, he's usually left with Neera as an LI. I feel sorry for him because of that... Fortunately, he rocks the game pretty hard from Carbos to Balthazar.

I just realized I've played this game much more than I thought I had.

Edit: Got a name wrong. "Wilson" is the name of BG2EE's hidden companion. "Winston" is the name of the Prime Minister of England during WW2. Though, may I say, I would absolutely love to see Winston Churchill in BG2.

[Spore]

Perhaps I'm giving Baldur's gate too much credit, but it existed in a time where there simply wasn't a lot so I'm willing to give it slack, even with its weird moments.

Spoiler: A weird and confusing ramble - also probably partially wrong

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That is the problem point anyway. It is a decent work of art in a time where most games got away with a very simple plot. "This is the bad guy, just shoot him." Games like Diablo 2, Tomb Raider and even games that based on novels with much potential such as American McGee's Alice or the original Deus Ex that is based on an original story rather than using an established fantasy setting.

Baldur's Gate is good and has aged well. But it has its ... uhm moments too. Talos is cool as a tyrannical ruler in an absolute way. But having him share the district with other more sensible religions is bound to spawn a turf war. And one powered by the very gods themselves. What stops a Talos worshipper from going to next door and saying: "Uh, the priests of the storm god basically bully me into servitude although I hate this god. Help me." But many of these problems fall back onto standard fantasy and the setting itself.

One should never do an in depth analysis of fantasy economics, physics, metaphysics or even philosophy. Because if you want to know why Talos' ethos is the way it is you should not try and apply logic or even philosophy itself but Machiavelli on how these organisations keep their power and influence over the people.

I realize I have played a lot less BG 1+2 than you guys did. Which is mostly due to the point that I have a major character idea but the group support for these ideas is often very lacking.

In BG 1 I feel pressed into a thief or cleric role to help with traps or healing. In BG 2, the cleric situation worsens and the sudden power surge of arcane casters really tempts me every time. This combined with my enjoyment of pulling a single character through all expansions makes choice hard for me. And I often break down during choices. I think I have two dozen characters with under 2 hours played.

I mentioned an evil human sorcerer, a good human cavalier and a neutral half-elven blade above. I remember a good elven archer that was the bane of mooks and other enemy hordes. I also remember plastering half of his equipment withb stacks of arrows because he can always start to fire when enemies are in sight, and he does so very quickly.

Ah, maybe I should revisit him. You don't need healing if the enemy never reaches your party. From a character stand point he was basically standard good. He protects the innocent but he is not particularly concerned about nature itself. He has problems himself. And as my friend's TWFing elven "not-Drizzt-at-all" CHARNAME was meeting Aerie's every whim I tried to romance Jaheira and failed somewhere (maybe due to scripting errors, but mostly likely due to my general obliviousness)

[Calemyr]

Spoiler: A weird and confusing ramble - also probably partially wrong

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That is the problem point anyway. It is a decent work of art in a time where most games got away with a very simple plot. "This is the bad guy, just shoot him." Games like Diablo 2, Tomb Raider and even games that based on novels with much potential such as American McGee's Alice or the original Deus Ex that is based on an original story rather than using an established fantasy setting.

Baldur's Gate is good and has aged well. But it has its ... uhm moments too. Talos is cool as a tyrannical ruler in an absolute way. But having him share the district with other more sensible religions is bound to spawn a turf war. And one powered by the very gods themselves. What stops a Talos worshipper from going to next door and saying: "Uh, the priests of the storm god basically bully me into servitude although I hate this god. Help me." But many of these problems fall back onto standard fantasy and the setting itself.

One should never do an in depth analysis of fantasy economics, physics, metaphysics or even philosophy. Because if you want to know why Talos' ethos is the way it is you should not try and apply logic or even philosophy itself but Machiavelli on how these organisations keep their power and influence over the people.

Spoiler: In Fairness...

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In the setting, the gods are bound by an even bigger god, the "Overgod" Ao, who forces them to play nice. Well... nicer. The whole Bhaalspawn saga is more or less due to the gods pissing Ao off and getting kicked out of the god game for a while. During this "Time of Troubles", a number of gods died or went missing, including Bhaal. Bhaal just happened to have a backup plan in place. So not even Talos is stupid enough to start a holy war in the middle of a city. A little holy cold war, certainly, anything that can stay under the radar, but not even Talos wants to get on Ao's bad side.

Meanwhile, Talos does scratch a particular itch some people have: destruction and the power of destruction. It's easy to become fascinated with the raw power of the storm, and the potential to benefit from that power. I don't think Talos would give a rat's tail if someone went next door because the don't find Talos a fun god to worship. Such people are weak and not worth keeping, and if they ever face the storm again, it'll be as just another nameless face in the aftermath. Or, more likely, a recurrent source of lunch money for a true believer of Talos.

Put another way: Talos is like Electronic Arts. Everyone knows they're evil, but they provide enough resources to let a developer achieve things they couldn't dream of on their own. And then they own you and tear you down piece by piece, but somehow that slow death is far less frightening than returning to the nobodies you once were.

Funny you should mention economics, though. I always found it cool that there are a lot of stores in the games (primarily BG2) that you, as an adventurer, can't use, such as groceries and what not. Most often, the only three stores in a town are the one that sells you weapons, the one that sells you armor, and the one that sells you expendable items, so it's nice to see a game acknowledge that cities don't exist solely to serve the player.

[Keltest]

Spoiler: In Fairness...

Show

In the setting, the gods are bound by an even bigger god, the "Overgod" Ao, who forces them to play nice. Well... nicer. The whole Bhaalspawn saga is more or less due to the gods pissing Ao off and getting kicked out of the god game for a while. During this "Time of Troubles", a number of gods died or went missing, including Bhaal. Bhaal just happened to have a backup plan in place. So not even Talos is stupid enough to start a holy war in the middle of a city. A little holy cold war, certainly, anything that can stay under the radar, but not even Talos wants to get on Ao's bad side.

Meanwhile, Talos does scratch a particular itch some people have: destruction and the power of destruction. It's easy to become fascinated with the raw power of the storm, and the potential to benefit from that power. I don't think Talos would give a rat's tail if someone went next door because the don't find Talos a fun god to worship. Such people are weak and not worth keeping, and if they ever face the storm again, it'll be as just another nameless face in the aftermath. Or, more likely, a recurrent source of lunch money for a true believer of Talos.

Put another way: Talos is like Electronic Arts. Everyone knows they're evil, but they provide enough resources to let a developer achieve things they couldn't dream of on their own. And then they own you and tear you down piece by piece, but somehow that slow death is far less frightening than returning to the nobodies you once were.

Funny you should mention economics, though. I always found it cool that there are a lot of stores in the games (primarily BG2) that you, as an adventurer, can't use, such as groceries and what not. Most often, the only three stores in a town are the one that sells you weapons, the one that sells you armor, and the one that sells you expendable items, so it's nice to see a game acknowledge that cities don't exist solely to serve the player.

One of my favorite lines of random NPC dialogue comes from Dungeon Siege, where if you enter a specific villager's home, it turns out he's the town baker, and is extremely confused by why youre in his shop. "Are you here to buy bread? I thought you adventurers didn't have to eat." Which is funny, because there is exactly one "food" item in the game, and its actually just a food-shaped weapon: a hunk of raw meat on a bone.

[Honest Tiefling]

Spoiler: A weird and confusing ramble - also probably partially wrong

Show

Baldur's Gate is good and has aged well. But it has its ... uhm moments too. Talos is cool as a tyrannical ruler in an absolute way. But having him share the district with other more sensible religions is bound to spawn a turf war. And one powered by the very gods themselves. What stops a Talos worshipper from going to next door and saying: "Uh, the priests of the storm god basically bully me into servitude although I hate this god. Help me." But many of these problems fall back onto standard fantasy and the setting itself.

Spoiler: Another weird and confusing ramble - also probably partially wrong

Show

Yeah, about that. I don't want to hold that against the game, because that's a huge flaw with the setting it is based on. Evil gods in Faerun are handled very badly and tend to play catch with multiple idiot balls. None of them have any positive attributes and are implied to murder their followers willy-nilly because that's how you handle underlings when you're evil. Calemyr probably gives the only valid and logical way for the evil gods to really function well in the setting, but its hampered by the fact that you can get just as much power worshiping neutral or goodly gods. Then again, I am not a fan of the Realms but I really feel like you need to establish your villians in your setting more than 'They cray-cray and wear lots of black and spikes'.

(Which is another problem, as the power levels of Selune (goddess of healing madness) and Cyric (god of teapot cabbage purple monkey dishwasher lunacy) suggests that Cyric has far better luck recruiting or manipulating the insane. Considering that he's a relatively new god, I think this is a problem that the setting has failed to address. I mean, can Xzar really be evil if he doesn't quite get reality? He probably wouldn't be a functional remember of the Zhentarim without his Monty and who knows what he would be up to otherwise.)

However, is it a fault of the video game itself? I'd lean to no, because if they changed that aspect of the setting, (which is huge, as most evil gods are like that, including our old pal Cyric. Bane is suggested to have some semblance of intelligence sometimes, but he's not back yet. I think Shar has gotten some off-screen bad***ery, but it's very questionable on how she gets followers. Malar has his moments, but I don't know which edition those arose in.) then it wouldn't be a very faithful adaption of the setting. Umberlee, Talos, Auril, Beshaba, Talona, and I think Loviatar all work that way, and that's most of the evil gods.

Perhaps it should have tried to really have shown this, but again, willing to cut the game some slack because of its age. I think the quest with Talos and Umberlee in the first game was a little better, but since that sorta involved a child asking you to murder people for the torture of her mother, maybe it needed a bit more exploration?

[Kish]

But having him share the district with other more sensible religions is bound to spawn a turf war.

Never played a cleric, or with any mod that would involve you playing through a cleric stronghold, I take it.

Spoiler: Cleric Stronghold

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The final quest for the Temple of Talos is "go wipe out the Temple of Lathander." The final quest for the Temple of Lathander is "we've discovered that Weathermistress Ada of the Temple of Talos has ordered her followers to kill us all; go kill them first." And the final quest for the Temple of Helm is, "Open war is about to break out between the other two temples; stop it and preserve the status quo."

Also, Cyric is god of strife, hatred, tyranny, death, and intrigue. He only cultivates worshipers in his own name because his ego demands it; anyone who sends prayers to Bane, Bhaal, or Leira empowers Cyric. Meanwhile, Selune's direct worshipers are only those who choose the goddess of the moon as their patron goddess.

Xzar is able to torture his apprentices and try to sic you on Harpers without his Monty.

[Honest Tiefling]

Also, Cyric is god of strife, hatred, tyranny, death, and intrigue. He only cultivates worshipers in his own name because his ego demands it; anyone who sends prayers to Bane, Bhaal, or Leira empowers Cyric. Meanwhile, Selune's direct worshipers are only those who choose the goddess of the moon as their patron goddess.

Uh...He has to have followers, or his powers wane thanks to the Time of Troubles. Prayers to Bane could empower multiple gods, Bane's own son Iyachtu Xvim who got a lot of his domains being one of them.

Selune also has domain over motherhood and outcasts, so she is likely to be empowered by yanno, anyone who is pregnant or has small children. I think that would be a time for prayer if there ever was one.

[Keltest]

Uh...He has to have followers, or his powers wane thanks to the Time of Troubles. Prayers to Bane could empower multiple gods, Bane's own son Iyachtu Xvim who got a lot of his domains being one of them.

Selune also has domain over motherhood and outcasts, so she is likely to be empowered by yanno, anyone who is pregnant or has small children. I think that would be a time for prayer if there ever was one.

Actually, prayers to bane just sort of fizzle out. Gods cant really usurp another god's worship, even a dead god.

[Kish]

Iyachtu Xvim showed up later. As of Second Edition AD&D and the timeline of Baldur's Gate, Cyric gets all the worship people direct to Bane and Bhaal. Midnight has no worshipers and a lot of Mystra's worshipers don't recognize that the entity they're praying to is different from before the Time of Troubles; it doesn't mean she doesn't get the worship directed to the Goddess of Magic.

In no edition does Cyric only get worship from the insane.

[Honest Tiefling]

In no edition does Cyric only get worship from the insane.

Never said that. I just said that its worrying that Cyric appears to have far more resources to sccop up the insane rather than the moon goddess of healing the insane. A bit dark, and probably something that should have been addressed, given that you encounter Xzar who probably got recruited in that way.

Also, pretty sure Ichatyu Xvim shows up in the second edition books, since he's quite dead by third edition. It would be really weird to have a god show up only to die offscreen before he even got written up! Xvim was active just after the Time of Troubles, so that'll be a hell of a retcon.

[Khay]

There is a reference to Xvim in this very book, oddly enough. Bodhi meets one of his clerics in Chapter Eighteen. (Uh, spoiler alert?)

Xzar is kind of an oddity all around. Niemain's dialogue implies that Xzar is actually a (somewhat) trusted operative, for some reason.

[Spore]

Nope. Never played a cleric or its stronghold quest. As for the (un)holy murdering that happens in there, it is about as expected. And this is one of the worse tropes Baldur's Gate did not overcome. Until the PC comes along, everything is a perfect stalemate. The cults cannot kill each other in Athkatla. the Werewolves and Elves never extinct each other in Dragon Age. The Stormcloaks and Imperials never gain a significant upper hand in Skyrim. Everyone is waiting for the dude with the health bar above their head to do ANYTHING.

Xzar is kind of an oddity all around. Niemain's dialogue implies that Xzar is actually a (somewhat) trusted operative, for some reason.

There are three different explanations for Xzar's madness.

1) Probably most likely: Poor character design.

2) Xzar pierced through the veil and saw too much. (Some of his prophecies sound insane but are actually true).

3) The Zhentarim are so irredeemably stupid-evil that only insane or psychotic characters could ever reasonably work for them.