Best Melee Combat in a TTRPG

[Dienekes]

I love fighters and warriors and rogues. I love roleplaying games. However, what I don't love is how usually fighting in roleplaying games is saying some variation of "I attack" or at best "I power attack" over and over every round. D&D 3.5 is probably the worst offender, but honestly most games I've played suffer this to some extent. Especially when compared to a lot of the rather unique things that spellcasters can do.

So, I have been trying to read up on different games that have varied more elaborate melee combat systems. And I have found a few that I have quite liked. The Riddle of Steel, and its spiritual successor Blade of the Iron Throne are interesting. I never quite got into Burning Wheel (I just don't like the 3 volley system) though I think it has some good ideas.

However, I was wondering what the rest of the boards think. For those who like melee combat, what game have you tried that offered the best gameplay? What struck the best balance between depth and simplicity?

[Altair_the_Vexed]

I rather like the combat system from The One Ring - it's abstracted, so it doesn't ask you to use minis and a battle map, but it is tactical.

You choose one of four stances - forward (i.e. aggressively, recklessly attacking in melee, not caring much for your own defence), open (i.e. fighting without sparing yourself, but paying attention to defence), defensive (i.e. protecting yourself and others), and rearward (i.e. staying back, to attack from a distance).
Each stance gives you a bonus or penalty to attack, and the opposite bonus or penalty to defence - so if you're fighting forward, your target number to hit is 6 (rolled on a d12 + some d6 (it's a bit more complex than that, but that's enough for this example)), and your opponents have the same target number to hit you.
The system takes away choice from the opponent (GM) and give it all to the players, which isn't especially realistic, but it is nicely streamlined.

You could fairly easily adopt something like this into other systems to take the place of all those "Power Attack", "Reckless Attack", "Combat Expertise" feats and abilities - I have in my d20 system hack. Everyone can swap attack bonus for defence, or for damage. I've always found it silly that only Barbarians can Reckless Attack (for example). What's so hard about fighting unguardedly that it has to be a special ability?

[Fri]

Legend of the Wulin. It's a lot of things (some are quite bad) but what it does best from all the games I've tried is its combat. It's both abstract but crunchy, and gives you lots of choices to do each turn and all of them are more interesting than "I punch hard"

[LibraryOgre]

A lot depends on what you like, but I'm a fan of Hackmaster's combat. Even with just the basic book, there's a variety of options, weapon speed and length both play a role, and there's a real advantage to being a higher-skill class like fighter. Second by second movement and action is also a plus.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I actually quite enjoyed the combat in Exalted 3e. Once you started digging into the assorted combat skill trees, there was a quite fun variety of attack-boosters, defense-boosters, and counters. I had to put some real care into every turn to figure out which to activate when and in response to what.

[Psikerlord]

Low Fantasy Gaming RPG can produce lots of variety in combat via minor and major exploits. The mechanics are pretty straight forward however (I would not call it elaborate).

[RazorChain]

I liked Exalted if only for the crazy stunts you pull off and how the game encourages you to describe them in detail to get a bonus to your rolls. You can be sure that no one will only "attack"


In Gurps I like the options that exist in combat and that a good blow is a potential fight stopper. When fighting opponent with high defenses you will be trying feints, beats or deceptive attacks. When you get desperate you might try an all out attack to launch a series of strikes to break through your opponents defenses at the cost of your defense. When fighting a highly armored opponent you'll use extra effort to get more damage or try to hit chinks in the armor or the joints. You might try to slip through your opponents defenses and go for an armed grapple or just use your shield and go for a slam attack to knock your opponent off his feet.

The best thing is that you can just describe what you want to. Want to do a powerful uppercut? Step in close, use extra effort for more damage and target the jaw. Want to knock your opponents sword out of the way and stab him in the heart? Use beat and follow up with a thrust attack in the vitals or if you are skilled enough do it in single turn with a rapid strike. Want to attack your opponent while he's attacking you? Just do a counterattack.

[Vhaidara]

I actually quite enjoyed the combat in Exalted 3e. Once you started digging into the assorted combat skill trees, there was a quite fun variety of attack-boosters, defense-boosters, and counters. I had to put some real care into every turn to figure out which to activate when and in response to what.

Seconding this. My first character ever, via a combination of really good Brawl, and a great setup round, and a charm by the name of "Heaven Thunder Hammer" (aka punch people through walls) was able to pull off punching an elephant through an army and into another elephant, breaking an entire army's morale in a single punch.

The main thing with Exalted is that you have your base dice, and then you "stunt" every action you take. Depending on how good your stunt is, you get bonuses. 1 point stunt is basically "did you describe it in a manner that works?", and gets you 2 additional dice, or 1 point increase on a static value (a consistent exchange rate). a 2 point stunt goes above and beyond as something memorable for the scene (such as my elephant punch), and gets 2 dice and an automatic success on your dice, or +2 to a static. 2points also generate a point of willpower. 3 point stunts are the things you tell stories about for years to come. The only one I've seen given out was one that had the entire group laughing hysterically for a good 15 minutes. And that's 2 dice +2 auto successes, or 3 static, plus 2 willpower.

The wonderful thing about the stunt system is that you can do pretty much whatever you want, and you stunt both offense and defense. In a recent fight, an enemy trying to disengage from my swordsman tried to kick me in the face, then kick off of my face to disengage. My response was to trap their leg with the crossguard of my sword and twist them back to the ground, preventing them from escaping. Rolls favored me, and I blocked the attack and prevented the disengage. We both had charms and other things to enhance our rolls, but we didn't need those to do the stunts, just to be the winner of the outcome.

[tensai_oni]

Legends of the Wulin, hands down. The Wulin Master (GM) has quite a number of things to remember, and it's not traditional book keeping or number crunching so it requires some practice - but the system itself is so good.

It works extremely well at representing the flow of combat, with participants making meaningful decisions regarding whether to use good dice they rolled immediately or to save them for later, carefully managing spending and gaining chi, and steadily accumulating ripples over the course of the battle, which means potential for steadily deadlier afflictions. Afflictions themselves are more than just passive penalties, they can be circumvented if you describe your action appropriately - and for several afflictions working against you at once, it often results in amazing, almost JoJo-esque feats of player creativity.

I've read opinions comparing LotW to card games like poker, where strategy is important and even if luck is not on your side, you can do well with a bad hand - or rolls as the case may be.

One thing LotW doesn't do is realistic. Its fights are long, dramatic and fitting the genre (wuxia). This also means the system prefers a smaller number of big or important fights vs a lot of relatively unimportant ones.


I'm not a fan of stunts in Exalted, they enforce the need for your every action to be over the top and borderline ridiculous or else you aren't fighting efficiently. Also I found the combat itself to be glass cannon rocket tag of most volatile variety, where you're either fine or suddenly as good as 100% dead. I hear third edition did some pretty dramatic changes here, but I have no experience with that one, only the first two.

[Vhaidara]

I'm not a fan of stunts in Exalted, they enforce the need for your every action to be over the top and borderline ridiculous or else you aren't fighting efficiently. Also I found the combat itself to be glass cannon rocket tag of most volatile variety, where you're either fine or suddenly as good as 100% dead. I hear third edition did some pretty dramatic changes here, but I have no experience with that one, only the first two.

Having started in 3e, I can say that the combat is a lot less rocket taggy, and being an unassailable wall is a viable option (artifact heavy armors, resistance charms, or, for true terror, both)

As far as stunts, I haven't felt any real pressure to try and be excessively over the top, because the game is designed around 1 point stunts being the norm. 2 and 3 point stunts are for when you get a true stroke of inspiration and just go completely ham with it. Based on experience, we seem to have 1 point stunts on basically every action (because that's the idea), 2 point stunts 1-2 times a session, and a 3 point stunt once per story arc (5-6 sessions)

[tensai_oni]

Yes, 1 point stunts are assumed to be the norm. However how many points a stunt is worth is arbitrary - it depends on the ST's decision. Therefore, theoretically speaking any action can be a 2 or 3 point stunt.

In my experience, this results in everyone at the table trying to force every single one of their action to be a 2 or 3 point stunt. Even a 2 pointer is already incredibly more useful than a 1 point stunt, because it restores willpower (best stat in anything White Wolf), so getting one as often as possible is what players are aiming for. At first it looks really cool and over the top. But I found that soon enough it just makes everyone burnt out creatively.

Also my issue with the stunt system is - it doesn't change anything in combat from a mechanical point of view. Your attack action is from a rules standpoint identical whether you say "I swing my sword" or describe an epic attack of breathtaking proportions. The latter gets you bonuses for roleplaying, but gameplay-wise it's the same thing.

Stunts by their own do not provide any extra tactics or meaningful choices to make. They are just the cherry on top of whatever you'd do normally.

[Bruno Carvalho]

Try some Blade of the Iron Throne