Death Battle III Not Even Internally Consistent

[Lord Raziere]

Do you mean fixed? Because that's awesome.

Ah but now he is no longer a Normal Human Who Is Just That Good. That ruins him for all the people who like him like that. Can't be the greatest human/gadgeteer hero or whatever when you using a magical power of determination and conjuring to defy physics. I guess its fixed if your a fellow TTGL fan though.

[Rater202]

Can I get a cite on Batman making a virus that enslaves people to his will and makes them into copies of Doomsday?

Becuase this is the first ever time I'm hearing of this and not only does it sound like an excessively fanwanky fanfic plot, but an extremly OOC fanwanky fanfic plot.

[Lord Raziere]

Can I get a cite on Batman making a virus that enslaves people to his will and makes them into copies of Doomsday?

Becuase this is the first ever time I'm hearing of this and not only does it sound like an excessively fanwanky fanfic plot, but an extremly OOC fanwanky fanfic plot.

hm, googled the sentence, and the closest I found is this comic called the Devastator #1 where an alt-Batman turns into doomsday himself to defeat an evil alt-superman but becomes evil because of the transformation as a result, so um.....hm. it is something someone actually published though.

[Rynjin]

Ah but now he is no longer a Normal Human Who Is Just That Good. That ruins him for all the people who like him like that. Can't be the greatest human/gadgeteer hero or whatever when you using a magical power of determination and conjuring to defy physics. I guess its fixed if your a fellow TTGL fan though.

Nope, because Spiral Power is something all humans (all creatures with DNA for that matter) possess. So it's completely normal.

[Lord Raziere]

Nope, because Spiral Power is something all humans (all creatures with DNA for that matter) possess. So it's completely normal.

In TTGL verse. Not in other universes, so these are magical humans that aren't baseline humans, therefore still magic.

[Forum Explorer]

Ah but now he is no longer a Normal Human Who Is Just That Good. That ruins him for all the people who like him like that. Can't be the greatest human/gadgeteer hero or whatever when you using a magical power of determination and conjuring to defy physics. I guess its fixed if your a fellow TTGL fan though.

Nope, because Spiral Power is something all humans (all creatures with DNA for that matter) possess. So it's completely normal.

Exactly this, he's just the only one on Earth (or maybe not the only one) who is using it at a high degree.

[S_A_M I AM]

I don't understand what your point is.

Don't even worry about it: It's not important or a big deal to just let it go.

Teen Titans was originally funded by sunken gold and treasure that Aqua Lad dredged up. No joke.

I now choose to believe that's canon for all superteams with an atlantian on it. That is freaking amazing.

Can I get a cite on Batman making a virus that enslaves people to his will and makes them into copies of Doomsday?

Becuase this is the first ever time I'm hearing of this and not only does it sound like an excessively fanwanky fanfic plot, but an extremly OOC fanwanky fanfic plot.

They've been probably misremembering the Checkmate plot (Subplot?) from the mid 00's that I've been mentioning .

During The OMAC Project in the modern era, Checkmate creates an OMAC virus under the leadership of Maxwell Lord; hijacking Batman's Brother Eye technology, they use infected human drones to neutralize superhero threats worldwide.

Source

Even for the people who irradiated the entire planet in order to get Superman to bugger off for a couple of months; OMAC is some dystopian, horrifying stuff.

[HolyDraconus]

Can I get a cite on Batman making a virus that enslaves people to his will and makes them into copies of Doomsday?

Becuase this is the first ever time I'm hearing of this and not only does it sound like an excessively fanwanky fanfic plot, but an extremly OOC fanwanky fanfic plot.

Look up Dark Knights: Metal. And while you at it, can someone check to see if Black Panther can overcome batmanium? Comics are hilarious

[HolyDraconus]

Even for the people who irradiated the entire planet in order to get Superman to bugger off for a couple of months; OMAC is some dystopian, horrifying stuff.

Considering there is a literal superteam of Batman that is infecting the planet....can we go ahead and table the idea that bats is NOT a reality warper?

[Anteros]

Man, at this point, Batman is just a reality warper through sheer fan popularity skyrocketing his power to eleventy billion alone. I'm not even surprised that they went that ridiculous with him. I bet you none of the other DC superheroes are that ridiculously overpoweredly overblown.

Why do these complaints always only focus on Bats though? Everyone is perfectly willing to accept when Richards or Stark pull things from their posterior, but if Batman does it everyone cries Mary Sue.

[S_A_M I AM]

Considering there is a literal superteam of Batman that is infecting the planet....can we go ahead and table the idea that bats is NOT a reality warper?

I'm not sure why you've directed that statement at me? I was talking about the Anti-Superman squad people, not Bats.

Why do these complaints always only focus on Bats though? Everyone is perfectly willing to accept when Richards or Stark pull things from their posterior, but if Batman does it everyone cries Mary Sue.

Well. People do complain about those other two. It happens more often to Batman because he IS kind of a sue, because he's occupying both the "Ninja fighting Mobsters" and the "Smart Guy Fighting Gods" power fantasy space without any real distinction between them and because he's much more visible.

[Rater202]

Why do these complaints always only focus on Bats though? Everyone is perfectly willing to accept when Richards or Stark pull things from their posterior, but if Batman does it everyone cries Mary Sue.

Richards and Stark, however, are canonically super-geniuses with Richards in particular explicitly cited as having Superhuman intelligence a s a result of his cosmic ray mutation.

Richards first act was inventing a new kind of spaceship and going into space with three other people, only one of whom had astronaut training, with the only poblem coming from the sheilding not protecting against one specific kind of cosmic ray with only happened becuase of a freak space-storm. This was before his intelligencewas enhanced to superhuman levels.

Iron Man's first canon act was to essentially invent a portable iron lung that also used magnets to keep the shrapnel in his chesst form piecing his damaged heart. This device had enough auxilery power to fuel the first few dozen iron man armors.

Batman's first act was... To do lots of physical exercises, and while he's regularly cited as a genius he's never stated to be at super-genius or superhuman intelligence levels.

Also, as I previously cited, the general level of tech available to the everyday man in the Marvel Universe is much, much higher than in DC. Also, a bunch of people randomly have Superhuman intelligence without it ever being cited as one of their Super Powers--Spider-Man and Magneto are regularly comparedto Sark and Richards in the intellect department, Moon girl is supposed to be the smartest person in the Marvel World and this is before she was exposed to Terrigen, and Richard'sdaughter Valeria is, at four years old, canonically smarter than he is but is, in the main timeline, excplicitly a normal human(as Cosmic Ray mutations aren't heritable.)

[Lord Raziere]

Why do these complaints always only focus on Bats though? Everyone is perfectly willing to accept when Richards or Stark pull things from their posterior, but if Batman does it everyone cries Mary Sue.

Huh, never thought of those two.

I dunno, Richards is already superpowered and goes on spacey adventures with other people who are superpowered, so its like he HAS to have super-science in order to keep up with the weird alien outer space stuff happening around him?

While Tony Stark is a guy in power armor and seems to work almost exclusively in the Avengers.

like sure Batman has the justice league, but he fits best in Gotham. you can see Richards or Stark going into higher power levels with no modification, but Batman explicitly takes on guys like The Joker, The Penguin, Riddler and so on and is clearly meant to only take those guys on. that and Batman is the one that makes the most of a big deal about not using super-powers, while Richards and Tony don't really care.

like, just look at Batman! he is so clearly a street level hero while Tony and Richards have bigger things in mind designed into them from the get-go. like, Batman is supposed to be like this super-detective guy, y'know? he is the one who actually goes around getting information and reading up on things and doing this investigation style, which Richards nor Tony really does, you can tell they're both meant to be action heroes first and geniuses as just a part of their personality, but Batman isn't supposed to be Mr. Defeat Em All Super-Fighter whatever, he is supposed to investigate around, figure out what the villain is doing through actual detective work at a gritty ground level and foil them through some plan he gets from that.

you don't send the Batman to fight Superman, thats idiotic. Batman fights him, and the living alien god is going to punch him in the face with just enough force to knock him out before he can ever draw his hidden kryptonite, because Superman is second only to the freaking Flash in how fast he is. you don't send Batman to fight Flash himself, The Flash will dodge anything he throws at him, you don't send the Batman to fight Darkseid or Amazo, or freaking gods of whatever stripe you choose, you send him to be a scout so that he can report back to you with info no one else could've gotten and get your heavy hitter out there to execute the plan you can come up with that information.

Because lets face it, once his gadgets advanced enough, it doesn't matter who is using them. you don't need the Batman to pilot a super-vehicle or power-suit to fight a villain, any hero could do that. what you need Batman for, is to be the dude who gets good intel so that people who are capable of fighting the threat can do it. and once you start going reality warper batman, you lose what makes Batman actually good as a hero in the process, because then he is just a wizard with a gadgets, batarang merlin, and there is no point to the character anymore because he is just the invincible bat wizard thats going to pull a gadget out of his butt, rather than the investigator, the human who is an actual person who experiences doubts, conflicts, problems he can't just solve with a press of a button.

Richards and Tony, they don't have that primary investigator theme to them, they are primarily action heroes with some genius mad scientist ideas to them, Richards attacks with his stretchiness, Stark gets in his power suit and punches them with some improvised idea to help defeat them, and they're good thats what they're supposed to do and I wouldn't want them to be batmanized into being super-prepped gods either. they have their own things to them, and thats ok. I don't care about equivalency or consistency complaints, because I don't want these things to be the same, they are different to me and should remain different, so that they can be their own characters, with their own problems and so on.

it simply comes down to that batman is primarily an investigator while most other heroes of the genre are not. like, Batman is closer to Superhero Noir in more ways than not. like you go to Batman to watch a superhero noir story, you go to other Superheroes to watch a superhero aciton flick, thats my take.

[Forum Explorer]

Huh, never thought of those two.

I dunno, Richards is already superpowered and goes on spacey adventures with other people who are superpowered, so its like he HAS to have super-science in order to keep up with the weird alien outer space stuff happening around him?

While Tony Stark is a guy in power armor and seems to work almost exclusively in the Avengers.

like sure Batman has the justice league, but he fits best in Gotham. you can see Richards or Stark going into higher power levels with no modification, but Batman explicitly takes on guys like The Joker, The Penguin, Riddler and so on and is clearly meant to only take those guys on. that and Batman is the one that makes the most of a big deal about not using super-powers, while Richards and Tony don't really care.

like, just look at Batman! he is so clearly a street level hero while Tony and Richards have bigger things in mind designed into them from the get-go. like, Batman is supposed to be like this super-detective guy, y'know? he is the one who actually goes around getting information and reading up on things and doing this investigation style, which Richards nor Tony really does, you can tell they're both meant to be action heroes first and geniuses as just a part of their personality, but Batman isn't supposed to be Mr. Defeat Em All Super-Fighter whatever, he is supposed to investigate around, figure out what the villain is doing through actual detective work at a gritty ground level and foil them through some plan he gets from that.

you don't send the Batman to fight Superman, thats idiotic. Batman fights him, and the living alien god is going to punch him in the face with just enough force to knock him out before he can ever draw his hidden kryptonite, because Superman is second only to the freaking Flash in how fast he is. you don't send Batman to fight Flash himself, The Flash will dodge anything he throws at him, you don't send the Batman to fight Darkseid or Amazo, or freaking gods of whatever stripe you choose, you send him to be a scout so that he can report back to you with info no one else could've gotten and get your heavy hitter out there to execute the plan you can come up with that information.

Because lets face it, once his gadgets advanced enough, it doesn't matter who is using them. you don't need the Batman to pilot a super-vehicle or power-suit to fight a villain, any hero could do that. what you need Batman for, is to be the dude who gets good intel so that people who are capable of fighting the threat can do it. and once you start going reality warper batman, you lose what makes Batman actually good as a hero in the process, because then he is just a wizard with a gadgets, batarang merlin, and there is no point to the character anymore because he is just the invincible bat wizard thats going to pull a gadget out of his butt, rather than the investigator, the human who is an actual person who experiences doubts, conflicts, problems he can't just solve with a press of a button.

Richards and Tony, they don't have that primary investigator theme to them, they are primarily action heroes with some genius mad scientist ideas to them, Richards attacks with his stretchiness, Stark gets in his power suit and punches them with some improvised idea to help defeat them, and they're good thats what they're supposed to do and I wouldn't want them to be batmanized into being super-prepped gods either. they have their own things to them, and thats ok. I don't care about equivalency or consistency complaints, because I don't want these things to be the same, they are different to me and should remain different, so that they can be their own characters, with their own problems and so on.

it simply comes down to that batman is primarily an investigator while most other heroes of the genre are not. like, Batman is closer to Superhero Noir in more ways than not. like you go to Batman to watch a superhero noir story, you go to other Superheroes to watch a superhero aciton flick, thats my take.

That's a good take on it. See, when I watch Batman, I only stick to stuff where it's pretty much just Batman. He doesn't really fit into the wider universe that well. Just like the X-Men in Marvel. They don't fit that well when the universe is packed full of utterly bonkers crap.

So yeah, when you look at the wider universe and try and force them into it, their stories and traits start to get shaky.

[Delicious Taffy]

A little extra punctuation (and capital letters) never hurt anyone.

At any rate, who even asked for another Batman fight? My guess is basically nobody, but they wanted to force out a Black Panther fight for extra views, and the only other guy they could think of was Batman. What more can they even do with him, at this point?

[Devonix]

Why do these complaints always only focus on Bats though? Everyone is perfectly willing to accept when Richards or Stark pull things from their posterior, but if Batman does it everyone cries Mary Sue.

Biggest difference is that no one goes around saying that Richards and Stark can beat everyone in a one on one fight.

First and formost those two are inventors.

Richards isn't even a superhero, he's a Scientist/Adventurer He doesn't fight crime he travels to other dimensions to explore the concept of reality. Richard's power may be stretchiness but he's main thing is his Intellect and the fact that he can think his way around any problem but misses obvious human problems

The problem with Bats is that he's painted as the perfect human being by his fans and some writers when that's never been the core of what his character is. He's a Detective. He's supposed to be the modern day " The Shadow. " or " Sherlock Holmes " But people want him to be able to solve everythig on his own and be smarter, stronger, just better in a way other characters don't have the problem of being.

[Kitten Champion]

Biggest difference is that no one goes around saying that Richards and Stark can beat everyone in a one on one fight.

First and formost those two are inventors.

Richards isn't even a superhero, he's a Scientist/Adventurer He doesn't fight crime he travels to other dimensions to explore the concept of reality. Richard's power may be stretchiness but he's main thing is his Intellect and the fact that he can think his way around any problem but misses obvious human problems.

Yeah, he only subscribes to the the trappings of a Superhero because it was the best way of deflecting his own guilt over irrevocably transforming his family into Others by reframing them as something far more palatable to the world.

Reed Richards should solve Galactus-ish issues, it's the point of the character and why during any truly existential crisis everyone asks "where are the Fantastic Four?"

[Devonix]

Yeah, he only subscribes to the the trappings of a Superhero because it was the best way of deflecting his own guilt over irrevocably transforming his family into Others by reframing them as something far more palatable to the world.

Reed Richards should solve Galactus-ish issues, it's the point of the character and why during any truly existential crisis everyone asks "where are the Fantastic Four?"

It's the main reason that the Fantastic Four movies don't work. The FF isn't a traditional story about heroes fighting Villains. But that's what they keep trying to make it about.

[Reddish Mage]

That's a good take on it. See, when I watch Batman, I only stick to stuff where it's pretty much just Batman. He doesn't really fit into the wider universe that well. Just like the X-Men in Marvel. They don't fit that well when the universe is packed full of utterly bonkers crap.

So yeah, when you look at the wider universe and try and force them into it, their stories and traits start to get shaky.

Isn’t that true of all solo comics though? Everyone is a different person when they are on their own then when they are in a big group of friends. The scale of things they can handle are different too.

Many suphereoes, by themselves, are incredibly lonely people who spend their time divided between a demanding day job and saving the world. Bring in a huge superhero network and suddenly they become well-connected team players with potentially unlimited resources for dealing with problems.

The problem with Bats is that he's painted as the perfect human being by his fans and some writers when that's never been the core of what his character is. He's a Detective. He's supposed to be the modern day " The Shadow. " or " Sherlock Holmes " But people want him to be able to solve everythig on his own and be smarter, stronger, just better in a way other characters don't have the problem of being.

Sherlock Holmes was in many ways a perfect human being. Holmes has great fighting skills and an intellect that can unravel practically any crime. Batman is the world’s greatest detective with a spy everything computer and a cave full of high-tech weaponry. He is at the pinnacle of human fighting ability. His intelligence is fantastical and its not clear, when it counts, if its second to anyone else. All that is true in the solo comics.

Now it doesn’t fit with the more noir themes when he simply and straightforwardly solves League-level problems on his own but the potential is there.

The question is how frequently Batman can take on world and universe level threats solo.

Black Panther has all sorts of enhancements that Batman never (or almost never) uses, such as magic, indestructible metal, and actual superpowers. However, Black Panther never has utilized that potential to solo universe level threats to my knowledge.

[Forum Explorer]

Isn’t that true of all solo comics though? Everyone is a different person when they are on their own then when they are in a big group of friends. The scale of things they can handle are different too.

Many suphereoes, by themselves, are incredibly lonely people who spend their time divided between a demanding day job and saving the world. Bring in a huge superhero network and suddenly they become well-connected team players with potentially unlimited resources for dealing with problems.

Not so much, because the main driving plot behind X-Men stories is people hating and fearing mutants. Which makes sense as a baseline. But then you get all these other heroes like the FF, Spiderman, Hulk (okay not him), Thor, and like a million other heroes. And they typically don't deal with being hated for their powers. Instead they are typically celebrated.

And considering how similar their powers can be (like the human Torch and Pyro) how can you even tell if they are a mutant or just another human with powers?

Basically a feel that moving X-Men to the full marvel universe weakens their storyline by making their central conflict nonsensical.

[Rater202]

Not so much, because the main driving plot behind X-Men stories is people hating and fearing mutants. Which makes sense as a baseline. But then you get all these other heroes like the FF, Spiderman, Hulk (okay not him), Thor, and like a million other heroes. And they typically don't deal with being hated for their powers. Instead they are typically celebrated.

And considering how similar their powers can be (like the human Torch and Pyro) how can you even tell if they are a mutant or just another human with powers?

Basically a feel that moving X-Men to the full Marvel universe weakens their storyline by making their central conflict nonsensical.

To be fair, early on there were a lot of cases of Mutates like Spider-Man being confused for mutants and more recently a lot of the Nuhuman thought they were mutants before the Inhumans explained things. Squirrel Girl and the Hayes family from Runaways thought they were mutants(Runaways especially, with the Hays facing anti-mutant bigotry in the past and Molly being scouted out by the X-Men at least twice) only to later be revealed as Mutates.

In general, though, the Mutant X-Factor and/or the X and M genes that cause it apparently has some energy signature that can be detected by certain scanners--the way the Sentinels can detect mutants, for example, so it's not like there aren't ways to tell a Mutant from a Mutate or an Asgardian.

As for heroes being celebrated... It's really only Captain America who gets that regularly. Spider-Man gets crapped on all the time and its a recurring theme in all titles that a lot of Marvel's civilians are really ungrateful for what the hero's do(Though considering that Kamala Kahn is established to have been a toddler when the Fantastic Four first went into space, that it's only been six years since Squirrel Girl's first appearance in 1994--she introduced herself as being 14 when she spoke to Iron Man and turned 20 in Unbeatable Squirrel Girl volume 2 # 16--and 2 years between Gerts 2006 death in Runaways volume 2 and the first issue of Runaways volume 5 in 2017, it's entirly possibele that Marvel is just a really dangerous and chaotic place and people are irritated by constant war and diaster)

Regardless, the biggest problem with Mutants, from the layman's perspective, is that they are technically a differant subspecies, resulting in a bunch of pseudo-science spouting bigots convincing people en-mass that Homo (sapiens) superior is a threat to Homo sapiens (sapiens) on evolutionary grounds(which is bad science,) which isn't really a factor with most other supers as they're still genetically homo s sapiens.

Also Magneto occasionally and ironically going full genocide on normies to prevent normies from going full Genocide on Mutants has really caused more harm than good for normie-mutant relations. Like, he's cited several times as the main reason why mutant hate is such a big thing.

Also, there's a sentient bacterial disease called Sublime. Subline is mostly harmless, but it can manipulate the minds and emotions of its hosts and possess its hosts. One of the few common threads that all mutants have is that they are completely immune to Sublime. It's been stated that a great deal of the irrational fear and hatred of mutants comes from a large number of people being infected by sublime and influenced by the bacteria to act towards the marginalization and elimination of mutants because it will go extinct if mutants become the dominant human subspecies.

[Gandariel]

Why do these complaints always only focus on Bats though? Everyone is perfectly willing to accept when Richards or Stark pull things from their posterior, but if Batman does it everyone cries Mary Sue.

Because Batman's writers try to have their cake and eat it too.

Batman is (and works well as) a street level hero: his rogue gallery is mostly humans or low level super humans, his most common enemy is "thug with gun/bat", and the threats he faces are usually relegated to his one town.

His stories are interesting because he barely manages to solve these problems, with his intellect or strength or a mixture of both.

...
BUT then they say "oh yes, he can also meaningfully contribute to universal level threats, and can beat anyone with preparation" , which is on a completely different scale of power.


Iron Man or Mr Fantastic are very clearly, and are always portrayed as, way above "street level". The issues and enemies they face are always of huge scale.

You'd never see iron man stopping two "thugs with gun" from a bank robbery, because it's so far beneath him it's not even interesting to watch.

However, that's exactly what they do with Batman.

They show you batman solving universe level threats, but then they expect you to feel tension when he has a fist fight with Bane or Harley Quinn.

They claim Batman is able to beat the likes of Superman or Iron Man, but they expect you to believe them when he struggles against Killer Croc or the Penguin.

In short, it's kind of ridiculous to claim batman can accomplish all of these feats, and still jump back to being a street level hero most of the time.

If he is smarter than Doom or Richards or Stark, he should build a suit with all of their powers and more, and use it all the time.

[HolyDraconus]

Because Batman's writers try to have their cake and eat it too.

Batman is (and works well as) a street level hero: his rogue gallery is mostly humans or low level super humans, his most common enemy is "thug with gun/bat", and the threats he faces are usually relegated to his one town.

His stories are interesting because he barely manages to solve these problems, with his intellect or strength or a mixture of both.

...
BUT then they say "oh yes, he can also meaningfully contribute to universal level threats, and can beat anyone with preparation" , which is on a completely different scale of power.


Iron Man or Mr Fantastic are very clearly, and are always portrayed as, way above "street level". The issues and enemies they face are always of huge scale.

You'd never see iron man stopping two "thugs with gun" from a bank robbery, because it's so far beneath him it's not even interesting to watch.

However, that's exactly what they do with Batman.

They show you batman solving universe level threats, but then they expect you to feel tension when he has a fist fight with Bane or Harley Quinn.

They claim Batman is able to beat the likes of Superman or Iron Man, but they expect you to believe them when he struggles against Killer Croc or the Penguin.

In short, it's kind of ridiculous to claim batman can accomplish all of these feats, and still jump back to being a street level hero most of the time.

If he is smarter than Doom or Richards or Stark, he should build a suit with all of their powers and more, and use it all the time.

I'm fairly certain someone in comic asked him why he didn't do just that, and he replied with something along the lines of power corrupts or something.. It's been decades...

[Reddish Mage]

Basically a feel that moving X-Men to the full marvel universe weakens their storyline by making their central conflict nonsensical.

Not really. As Rater pointed out, hatred and fear directed towards superheroes in general is a thing.

Mutant fear makes sense since mutant powers strike randomly and created a group with racial characteristics. Inhumans are quite similar and basically had the same thing happen to them in Television show that is supposedly part of the MCU.

The real problem is the MCU has already made it clear that people with powers have supposed to be vanishingly rare until the Avengers arrived on scene. Mutants are supposed to number over a million prior to the House of M. How do they introduce the X-men unless they are going to do a mutant origin story.

Because Batman's writers try to have their cake and eat it too.

Batman is (and works well as) a street level hero: his rogue gallery is mostly humans or low level super humans, his most common enemy is "thug with gun/bat", and the threats he faces are usually relegated to his one town.

His stories are interesting because he barely manages to solve these problems, with his intellect or strength or a mixture of both.

...
BUT then they say "oh yes, he can also meaningfully contribute to universal level threats, and can beat anyone with preparation" , which is on a completely different scale of power.


Iron Man or Mr Fantastic are very clearly, and are always portrayed as, way above "street level". The issues and enemies they face are always of huge scale.

You'd never see iron man stopping two "thugs with gun" from a bank robbery, because it's so far beneath him it's not even interesting to watch.

However, that's exactly what they do with Batman.

They will show Iron Man stopping a robbery or Superman for that matter but I suppose you are talking about the full-length storylines.

Still, I’m not sure I agree Batman is “street-level” and clearly not in Iron Man’s league. Batman doesn’t take on regular criminals he takes on the super-powered kind with crazy tech and other resources as well as powers. His rogues include Ras Al-Ghul and others that regularly threaten the existence of Gotham itself, not just run of the mill crimes like holding up a local bank.

The scale of the target doesn’t always match the villains maximum potential. The Purple Man can take on the Avengers as has Kingpin. Batman’s villains have also threatened the Justice League.

If these villains were to appear in real life and successfully carry out their typical schemes the response may well be to treat them as a threat to national security, rather than local cops and DC too often sends in ARGUS and other hi-tech super-secret national security organizations.

It’s entirely believable someone who deals with those sorts of threats may occasionally also deal with the bigger scale threats when presented.

[Traab]

Rater, its not just magneto either. You have jerkwads like Sinister working behind the scenes keeping the pot firmly stirred up in his nightmare version of darwins survival of the fittest in between trying to get Grey babies.

[Mato]

Why do these complaints always only focus on Bats though? Everyone is perfectly willing to accept when Richards or Stark pull things from their posterior, but if Batman does it everyone cries Mary Sue.

Because with Batman is often used as a Mary Sue.

Batman offers implausible solutions that come out of nowhere, like apparently writing digital code into the frame work of the Batcave when it was first built that can be compiled into a working AI. Try comparing it to people like Tony Stark who in the original was actually working on a prototype of his powered armor, film universe had a working generator too, his feat was miniaturizing it after being locked in a cave with millions of dollars worth of weaponry supplies. Reed tends to make larger pulls but in contrast to Bruce Wayne who leads a dual life and prone to spending his nights patrolling Gotham, Reed spends just about every waking moment in a laboratory researching and experimenting.

Another part is the claims. Like dodging an undodgable eye laser should mean the claim is an exaggerated lie but very few take it as that. It is claimed Bruce Wayne has a dozen degrees but we're never even shown him trying to learn, earn, or demonstrate why he has them. Tony & Reeds could pretty much ace anything thrown in front of them and it's taken to be a part of their characters because they continually demonstrate it even when it's not needed for plot reasons instead of over inflating their background like a bad roleplayer.

But the worst part of the claims is the sale of things. It's touched on with Batman vs Darkside but for example Tony Stark can't stand toe-to-toe with most of the people he fights. That's why he built an armored suit. Ironman can't stand toe-to-toe with beings like Thor or the Hulk. That's why he built buster series armors to wear over it. Reed isn't an expert martial artist guntota death assassin trying to full-nelson Glactus, he builds gadgets in his laboratory he thinks might work. They somewhat adhere to expectations and they are meant to fight super-powered people. Batman on the other hand is meant to deal with street crime by punching it in the face.

[Rater202]

Something else to consider: Marvel and DC did a crossover event that resulted in the creation of the Amalgam universe, where MarvelCharacters andDCcharacters were combined into one.

Usually, it was the most similar characters who were combined: Superman with Captain America to make Super Soldier. Superboy with The Scarlet Spider to make Spider-Boy.

You'd expect the guy whose power is money and fights crime with smarts and gadgets to be combined with the guy whose power is money and fight crime with smarts and gadgets.

But Batman was combined with Wolverine to make Dark Claw while Iron Man was combined with Hal Jordon to make Iron Lantern.

This is the companies themselves acknowledging that Batman doesn't share the same narrative role as Stark or Richards. Batman is the edgy borderline anti-hero who gets mad and punches things which are sometimes way about his weight class, sometimes inways that are belivable, othertimes not so much.

[Devonix]

My problem with Batman isn't the character and for the most part isn't even some of the bad writers. It's the fans. Batman's a great character and usually well written. The problem is that fans overblow his achievements and downlplay others.

You get people who claim that Batman can outfight anyone. When In universe he'd be the first person to tell you that he's not the best fighter, hell he's not even the best nonpowered fighter he knows.

People who say he's smarter than anyone else. No he's more clever and has one of the best anylitical minds but he's nowhere near the smartest. He's not the richest, What Batman is is someone who combines all of the near to top stuff, in one package.

[Anteros]

My problem with Batman isn't the character and for the most part isn't even some of the bad writers. It's the fans. Batman's a great character and usually well written. The problem is that fans overblow his achievements and downlplay others.

You get people who claim that Batman can outfight anyone. When In universe he'd be the first person to tell you that he's not the best fighter, hell he's not even the best nonpowered fighter he knows.

People who say he's smarter than anyone else. No he's more clever and has one of the best anylitical minds but he's nowhere near the smartest. He's not the richest, What Batman is is someone who combines all of the near to top stuff, in one package.

But that's just your opinion on what the character should be. The official canon is that he is the richest, and he is the (second) smartest person on Earth.

I honestly feel like a lot of people who are arguing that Batman is street level don't actually read the comics, and are getting their info from the old 80s-90s animated series. Because Batman in the comics is way more ridiculous than heroes like Iron Man or Black Panther when you actually look at the things they get up to.

[Lord Raziere]

But that's just your opinion on what the character should be. The official canon is that he is the richest, and he is the (second) smartest person on Earth.

I honestly feel like a lot of people who are arguing that Batman is street level don't actually read the comics, and are getting their info from the old 80s-90s animated series. Because Batman in the comics is way more ridiculous than heroes like Iron Man or Black Panther when you actually look at the things they get up to.

We are well aware of the starting lack of quality in the comics that causes such stupidity you speak of. I do not particularly care how "canon" it is, quality is and should be the only thing worthy of consideration.

Please do not confuse good Batman writing with canonical Batman writing. Comic book canon is as worthless as dirt I scrape off my shoe, as it changes at the drop of a hat because of a reboot. What does canon really mean when its all just a reset button away from being completely revised? Absolutely nothing, because its all just an excuse for the current writer to make things go his way for the character until the next writer takes over and changes it all over again.