Is rebuke the violent potentially overpowered?

[Talamare]

Page 194 in the PHB:

If there’s ever any question whether something you’re
doing counts as an attack, the rule is simple: if you’re
making an attack roll, you’re making an attack.

A grapple is not making an attack roll.

That is the raw.

As a matter of fact Sage Advice has ruled in both directions.

That says
All Attack Rolls means you're making an Attack

It doesn't say
All Attacks require an Attack Roll

Your proof has failed, feel free to try again.

[CantigThimble]

That says
All Attack Rolls means you're making an Attack

It doesn't say
All Attacks require an Attack Roll

Your proof has failed, feel free to try again.

Also doesn't say a dog can't play basketball.

Anyway, if you're right, wouldn't that be evidence that fireball could be an attack?

[Easy_Lee]

Also doesn't say a dog can't play basketball.

Anyway, if you're right, wouldn't that be evidence that fireball could be an attack?

It basically says if there's ever a question whether you're making an attack, then it's an attack if it makes an attack roll.

I've seen this logic play out before. People on a certain side of the argument will simply challenge everything, saying "I'm not so sure X is an attack." Thus, the status of the thing is called into question and one must decide whether that thing is an attack. If the thing does not make an attack roll, the argument then is that it is not an attack.

My ruling: if it makes an attack roll or is called an attack by its own text, then it's an attack.

[Aett_Thorn]

Wrong
Sanctuary stops ATTACK(s)

Grapple is an special melee ATTACK

Grapple ends Sanctuary. RAW.

This is correct, by RAW.

If you are under a Sanctuary spell, and try to Grapple/Shove someone, it ends Sanctuary on you.

[Talamare]

Also doesn't say a dog can't play basketball.

Anyway, if you're right, wouldn't that be evidence that fireball could be an attack?

Airbud?

You could use it as an argument, but there is still nothing establishing Fireball as an Attack by the rules of the game.
While the book straight up states Grapples and Shoves are Attacks.

[Aett_Thorn]

Page 194 in the PHB:

If there’s ever any question whether something you’re
doing counts as an attack, the rule is simple: if you’re
making an attack roll, you’re making an attack.

A grapple is not making an attack roll.

Keep reading.

[CantigThimble]

Airbud?

You could use it as an argument, but there is still nothing establishing Fireball as an Attack by the rules of the game.
While the book straight up states Grapples and Shoves are Attacks.

Ah okay. That makes sense then.

[Elric VIII]

That quote is not the same as what I said. Furthermore, you will seldom find anyone who advises you to change mechanics on the fly, blindsiding your players with rules changes mid-game. That's because it's a terrible idea to do that, and you know it.

Resist the urge to be snarky with me. It doesn't work.

I'm not surprised snark doesn't work. I'd have trouble seeing it from behind all those strawmen, too. No one said anything about blindsiding players ffs.

[JackPhoenix]

That says
All Attack Rolls means you're making an Attack

It doesn't say
All Attacks require an Attack Roll

Your proof has failed, feel free to try again.

This. It's a case of specific vs. general.

General rule is that attack roll must be involved in an attack.
Specific rule says that grapple is an attack, even though attack roll isn't involved. Same with shove.

[holywhippet]

This. It's a case of specific vs. general.

General rule is that attack roll must be involved in an attack.
Specific rule says that grapple is an attack, even though attack roll isn't involved. Same with shove.

No the general rule is that if you are making an attack roll then it is definitely an attack. Anything else may or may not be considered an attack.

[JackPhoenix]

No the general rule is that if you are making an attack roll then it is definitely an attack. Anything else may or may not be considered an attack.

That's exactly what I said. If there's attack roll, it's an attack. That's the general rule. Specific exceptions may say that certain thing is considered attack even if there's no attack roll. Shove and grapple falls into this category. Fireball and pretty much every other ability and spell in the game does not. Unless it's specifically noted that something *is* an attack even if there's no attack roll, it's not.

[tombowings]

Which is why the rules should be edited for world-building and game-world logic, not only mechanical imbalance. One or two more passes through the flavor text would solve dozens of these issues.

The College of Glamour's Mantle of Inspiration feature, for example, is atrocious. While the mechanics are fine, I don't see how the ability when used produces mechanical result. The game is full of these issues.

[Talamare]

Which is why the rules should be edited for world-building and game-world logic, not only mechanical imbalance. One or two more passes through the flavor text would solve dozens of these issues.

The College of Glamour's Mantle of Inspiration feature, for example, is atrocious. While the mechanics are fine, I don't see how the ability when used produces mechanical result. The game is full of these issues.

Sorry, but what?

I honestly am not sure what you're arguing.

[Lalliman]

Sorry, but what?

I honestly am not sure what you're arguing.

I think what he means is that it makes no sense that magically altering your own appearance grants temporary hit points to your allies. I kinda get what they were going for, but the mechanical effect is definitely far-fetched compared to the fluff description.

[JackPhoenix]

I think what he means is that it makes no sense that magically altering your own appearance grants temporary hit points to your allies. I kinda get what they were going for, but the mechanical effect is definitely far-fetched compared to the fluff description.

(Temp) hp are, amongst other effects, morale. You use fey magic to make yourself so sexy that others will fight harder to impress you. The movement effect is weirder.

You may give temp hp with motivational speech, but only to 6 people at a time. Including yourself. In PHB.

Still better than the nonsense that is Booming Blade.

[tombowings]

(Temp) hp are, amongst other effects, morale. You use fey magic to make yourself so sexy that others will fight harder to impress you. The movement effect is weirder.

You may give temp hp with motivational speech, but only to 6 people at a time. Including yourself. In PHB.

Still better than the nonsense that is Booming Blade.

Dumb idea that does pass the logic test. My wife putting on some makeup won't make me fight harder if someone starts harassing her on the street.

The idea that a fireball is not an "attack" doesn't either, or that Rebuke the Violent should be able to work on firebolt, but not fireball; both of them are violent acts.

[JackPhoenix]

Dumb idea that does pass the logic test. My wife putting on some makeup won't make me fight harder if someone starts harassing her on the street.

The idea that a fireball is not an "attack" doesn't either, or that Rebuke the Violent should be able to work on firebolt, but not fireball; both of them are violent acts.

Is that a magic makeup, though?

Hard to say what dumb ideas pass your logic tests if you don't explain what's "logical" to you.

[Talamare]

Dumb idea that does pass the logic test. My wife putting on some makeup won't make me fight harder if someone starts harassing her on the street.

The idea that a fireball is not an "attack" doesn't either, or that Rebuke the Violent should be able to work on firebolt, but not fireball; both of them are violent acts.

I mean... It's your wife

I assume you're already fighting so hard that you're getting THP from your love for her

THP doesn't stack