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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    I feel the need to point out Ant Man was a heist movie.
    Its more a Marvel movie with Hiest flavored frosting. The hiest and structure takes up about 20% of the movie, whilst the rest is pretty standard.
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    A little condescending
    That pretty much sums up the Scowling Dragon experience.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    They made Molly Hispanic, she's now Gert's foster-sister, and halfway through the mini-series they've still yet to actually Runnaway.

    And there might be a different traitor or no traitor than in the comics because the traitor from the comics reason to be the traitor was renderned a non-issue in the first episode of the show, and that's all I'm gonna say to avoid spoilers for either.
    T_T



    So, Axel Alonzo, Tom Brevort, Nick Spencer, and/or Joe Quesada got to have a go at it during production then. Great.

    So much for checking that one out, thanks for the warning.




    Scowling Dragon: I dunno, felt fairly Heisty to me for a good part of it. Sure, the training montage and Scott proving he wasn't a bad person even though as far as the Law was concerned he was objectively evil and the badguys past and present were objectively good were more Marvely, but that was to be expected. Cause, you know, just having Scott be a jerkface would defeat the whole point of not just making Hank Pym Ultron's creator in Avengers 2.


    Though the whole "The law says I'm bad and there good, reality says the opposite." idea could be taken as a bit of social commentary on the prison recidivism rate in the US. Particularly with his Daughters Mother dating a Cop, who is the one who takes him in when he's RETURNING the suit cause he doesn't want anything to do with this mess, and taunts him about it, twice.

    Or the detail that we flat can't get anything, let alone anything his skills and intelligence actually qualify him for, OTHER then the Antman Gig and stealing after he was in the first time. That first time was it as far as having any semblance of a future was concerned, which is an often mentioned reality for people sent away, particularly for none violent or relatively minor crimes.
    "I Burn!"

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    T_T



    So, Axel Alonzo, Tom Brevort, Nick Spencer, and/or Joe Quesada got to have a go at it during production then. Great.

    So much for checking that one out, thanks for the warning.
    For what it's worth, the original author of volume one approved the changes(and suggested some)
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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    They made Molly Hispanic, she's now Gert's foster-sister, and halfway through the mini-series they've still yet to actually Runnaway.
    One might observe it would have to try REALLY HARD to be worse than the version that they release during Battleworld.

    That was so utterly offensive on every level, I waited until winter was over and it was dry enough, then literally burned it. (And I have the pictures to prove it!)

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    For what it's worth, the original author of volume one approved the changes(and suggested some)
    With the way the people I listed are reputed to operate, approving something just as often proves your acting under some manner of duress as it does that you actually are ok/indifferent/like-and-or-think-well-of-and-or-agree with the changes.
    "I Burn!"

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    One might observe it would have to try REALLY HARD to be worse than the version that they release during Battleworld.

    That was so utterly offensive on every level, I waited until winter was over and it was dry enough, then literally burned it. (And I have the pictures to prove it!)
    That was the AU where it was Molly leading all the kid sidekicks and there were no other Runaway's cast, right?

    Though considering that the current volume is being penned by someone who openly hates volumes 2 and 3 and openswith nobody caring that Klara(and only Klara) was taken by child services(not evn Karalina, despite her experiances with a bad fostering) even though as a victim of emotional abuse from her mother and physical and sexual abuse from the grown man she was made to marry(and bing from over a hundred years ago) she'd nor do well...

    ...And considering that Karolina basically referred to her relationship with Xavin as a mistake(seriously Marvel, the response to LSD starting to date Lightspeed was to start shipping those two and Xavin as a threesome, that kind of crap never happens. Take the flipping hint the fans want Xavin back.)

    ...And considering that Tony Stark apparently arranged to send Chase Victor's early remains after his death(his severd head) through the mail without telling Chase that it was Chase's severed head and not a box of his possessions...(Granted, a preview cover shows Victor's head being sewed back on, but considering that tinkering with Victor's head activated a program called "Victorious" that might not be such a good thing...)

    We've got a "getting the band back together" are that's ignoring two-three members of the band and treating them like crap.

    I'm willing to give it time to turn around(I warmed up to Eddie Brock being Venom again when I found out about Agent Anti-Venom being a thing) since it's only a couple of volumes in, but I'm not liking what I'm seeing so far.
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    That was the AU where it was Molly leading all the kid sidekicks and there were no other Runaway's cast, right?
    Molly was the only Runaways character (that I'm aware of, though that run was - somewhat unfortunately - my only experience with the Runaways), but she was not the leader. That was JUBILEE.

    And I burned it. A thing with Jubilee in it.

    I didn't even do that to Old Man Logan.

    Does that give you any idea of how truly BAD it was?

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    Molly was the only Runaways character (that I'm aware of, though that run was - somewhat unfortunately - my only experience with the Runaways), but she was not the leader. That was JUBILEE.

    And I burned it. A thing with Jubilee in it.

    I didn't even do that to Old Man Logan.

    Does that give you any idea of how truly BAD it was?
    ...Yes.

    Is she still a vampire in the main continuity? The only X-Men thing I follow regularly is All-New Wolverine, because Gabriel Zelda "Honey Badger" Kinnley is a gem who deserves her own ongoing. Might give X-Men Red a read once it gets started since it'll be by the same guy.
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Listen, if you didn't expect a comics company to piss all over something on one of those rare occasions when they make a good story, you haven't been paying attention.

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Talion View Post
    But does this make Anastasia Romanov a Disney Princess?
    Nope. To be an official Disney Princess, a character must meet three specific requirements.

    A) Has a primary role in a Disney animated feature.

    B) Is human or mostly human.

    C) Does not appear primarily in a sequel or commercial failure.

    Anastasia meets the second and third requirements, but not the first.

    Edit: Also, she needs to be officially coronated at Disney World, but that's obvious.
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  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    ...Yes.

    Is she still a vampire in the main continuity?
    Yes.

    The current book she's in (the only thing I'm following at the moment) is a odd sort of read. The bits with her (and Jono - and Shogo, of course!) and such are absolutely great... But the new student character's she's mentioning (which are sort of the protagonists) I feel absolutely nothing towards (except Quentin Quire, who I have always disliked, and Bling! who seems completely different from her appearances n the pre-battleworld Adjectiveless X-Men with Jubilee. I have never met a cast of X-Men who I find so unengaging before.



    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202
    The only X-Men thing I follow regularly is All-New Wolverine, because Gabriel Zelda "Honey Badger" Kinnley is a gem who deserves her own ongoing. Might give X-Men Red a read once it gets started since it'll be by the same guy.
    Eh?

    *googles*

    ...

    Apparently, Logan clones are the new Summers progeny.

    Also [Richard]head Daken is alive again. Frag dammit.



    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    Nope. To be an official Disney Princess, a character must meet three specific requirements.

    A) Has a primary role in a Disney animated feature.

    B) Is human or mostly human.

    C) Does not appear primarily in a sequel or commercial failure.

    Anastasia meets the second and third requirements, but not the first.

    Edit: Also, she needs to be officially coronated at Disney World, but that's obvious.
    Give Ryan Reynolds a little time, and Deadpool will get there.

    You KNOW he will...
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2017-12-18 at 05:40 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    I'm super excited that X-Men and Fantastic Four are back with Marvel.

    My suggestion would be that they avoid adding them to the current cinematic universe. It's too far in and it has enough characters and it is nearly culminating in it's grand finale Infinity Wars.

    There are plenty of characters and villains and arcs in X-Men and FF to create a second cinematic universe. It can still be connected to the first, so to speak, and they can have cameos and stuff, but they should do a new one that is mostly self-contained. X-Men have the Mojoverse and the Shi'ar Empire and time travel arcs if they want to get weird. And of course plenty of great villains. The Fantastic Four also have cosmic connections and Doom.

    Point being, there is plenty for them to do without needing to cram them into the current cinematic universe.
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  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    Eh?

    *googles*

    ...

    Apparently, Logan clones are the new Summers progeny.

    Also [Richard]head Daken is alive again. Frag dammit.
    Technically, Gabby and her sisters are Laura's clones. Gabby refers to Laura as a sister, but Laura's apparently not old enough to drink yet and thus probably isn't old enough to be a 13 year old's mom. She refers to Old Man Logan as her alternate universe sytopian grandfather.

    And she is amazing: What is either nanomachine in her body or a mutation of her healing factor means that she doesn't feel pain. So she once literally cut off her middle finger and gave it to someone(deadpool) as a gift just to say that she "gave him the finger."

    Daken's been back for a while. He's working towards a Face turn, but I don't think he's quite there yet.(He was the one to name Gabby Honey Badger, becuase she's sweet and has claws(his words) and according to Muramasa(the swordsmith) He feels incredibly guilt about Logan being dead... Logan's apparently back to life, but no one knows yet.)
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  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    Yes.

    The current book she's in (the only thing I'm following at the moment) is a odd sort of read. The bits with her (and Jono - and Shogo, of course!) and such are absolutely great... But the new student character's she's mentioning (which are sort of the protagonists) I feel absolutely nothing towards (except Quentin Quire, who I have always disliked, and Bling! who seems completely different from her appearances n the pre-battleworld Adjectiveless X-Men with Jubilee. I have never met a cast of X-Men who I find so unengaging before.





    Eh?

    *googles*

    ...

    Apparently, Logan clones are the new Summers progeny.

    Also [Richard]head Daken is alive again. Frag dammit.





    Give Ryan Reynolds a little time, and Deadpool will get there.

    You KNOW he will...
    You know Lichy, a thought just crossed my mind.


    Jubilee was rather popular on X-men, the Animated Series. Which is about 20 years old and in that Nostalgia Cycle sweet spot for marketing, and someone who the fans have been begging for an active film role since like, X-men 2. And the people behind shafting the use of her are either out of the picture or loosing sway finally.

    This perches might mean we might see her getting to trade Banter with the MCU cast, and might mean we might start getting decent use of her in the comic books again.






    Also, that would be amazing! Do it Deadpool!!!!
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    I do like moviebob's idea for a F4 movie.
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  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Jubilee was rather popular on X-men, the Animated Series.
    You can make a good case that - as she was the initial point-of-view character - Jubilee is largely responsible for getting me into superhoeres as a genera, period, due to the show. And I doubt I'm alone in that specifically. She's always had a pretty dedicated fanbase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1
    Which is about 20 years old and in that Nostalgia Cycle sweet spot for marketing, and someone who the fans have been begging for an active film role since like, X-men 2.
    Before that, even...!

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1
    And the people behind shafting the use of her are either out of the picture or loosing sway finally.

    This perches might mean we might see her getting to trade Banter with the MCU cast, and might mean we might start getting decent use of her in the comic books again.
    We sort of have hit that point again. After the nadir where she was being literally used a cynical marketing tool after the demise of Generation X (the vamprisation, and various incidents before and since of trotting her out for a few issues or a cameo to draw in the fans, then written out), adjectiveless X-Men started making decent use of her; then we had X-92 (which made up for the aforementioned travesty; I feel a pity that could not have carried on as an ongoing series, it was GREAT); and now in the current Gen X she's the best part of it.

    So we can but hope.

    It would be NICE to have an MCU version of that one-shot where Captain America took her with him to fight Nazi vampires in a submarine.

    Yes, that actually happened.

    (Cap was trying to show the Naz vampires they didn't have to all crazy-evil, by bringing along someone who wasn't. I mean, it didn't work, but, hey it's the thought that counts!)

    I think my ideal Marvel Cinematic Universe would be something like Jubilee and Wolverine and maybe some of the other X-Men teaming up with the MCU Avengers (and Daisy Johnson and Agent Coulson) to fight Doctor Doom. (Hell, in one future universe, Jubes was not noly an actual Avenger, but the leader of the X-People...!)

    This at least seems now faintly, remotely possible, now.

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonexx View Post
    I do like moviebob's idea for a F4 movie.
    I like the time travel angle (technically it's not his, still). It would save them some of the... well, trying to make a millennial Fantastic Four is fraught with potentially wince-worthy missteps. Spider-Man: Homecoming dealt with the anachronistic nature of Peter's early life relative to modern audiences by stapling some of Miles Morales' more contemporary setting elements on top of him, so they had that well to draw upon. While the modern iteration of F4 in comics - before sidelining them almost completely - are written as fully realized adults who have issues that they don't let most Superheroes have like raising their children, but that direction wouldn't exactly work for a new MCU movie title.

    Sure, they have the Ultimate Comics Fantastic Four which did de-age the group and start over in recent-ish times, but they're literally the worst comics of the Ultimate universe even compared to a lot of crap. Ultimate F4 certainly didn't help Fan4stic at all. They're something to look at as how not to do it, and why a millennial F4 is a difficult prospect in particularly.

    So, using their anachronism as something to anchor their movie off with through time travel shenanigans is a cool idea. I particularly like addressing the doormat nature of early 1960's Invisible Girl and bringing her into the 20(20's probably), that's a potentially thoughtful angle you can go with her as she's had nothing in any of these movies thus far.

    I've also long argued that their jumping straight to Doom was symptomatic of Fox's not really grasping how to use their characters effectively, as he needs some build up and development which you can't accomplish while introducing your cast and doing their origin story. F4 have plenty of villains once you actually look through their material, many could function as a first movie antagonist.

    I'm not really hot on Bob's pitch otherwise, but it's not bad really.
    Last edited by Kitten Champion; 2017-12-18 at 09:07 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    It would be NICE to have an MCU version of that one-shot where Captain America took her with him to fight Nazi vampires in a submarine.

    Yes, that actually happened.

    (Cap was trying to show the Naz vampires they didn't have to all crazy-evil, by bringing along someone who wasn't. I mean, it didn't work, but, hey it's the thought that counts!)
    ...you know, I never much liked Jubilee, and I'm not a Cap fan either (skipped two of his three movies, only went to Civil War because everyone assured me it was basically an Avengers film instead of just a Cap one - and they were right), but I would definitely watch that.
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  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    I like the time travel angle (technically it's not his, still). It would save them some of the... well, trying to make a millennial Fantastic Four is fraught with potentially wince-worthy missteps. Spider-Man: Homecoming dealt with the anachronistic nature of Peter's early life relative to modern audiences by stapling some of Miles Morales' more contemporary setting elements on top of him, so they had that well to draw upon. While the modern iteration of F4 in comics - before sidelining them almost completely - are written as fully realized adults who have issues that they don't let most Superheroes have like raising their children, but that direction wouldn't exactly work for a new MCU movie title.

    Sure, they have the Ultimate Comics Fantastic Four which did de-age the group and start over in recent-ish times, but they're literally the worst comics of the Ultimate universe even compared to a lot of crap. Ultimate F4 certainly didn't help Fan4stic at all. They're something to look at as how not to do it, and why a millennial F4 is a difficult prospect in particularly.

    So, using their anachronism as something to anchor their movie off with through time travel shenanigans is a cool idea. I particularly like addressing the doormat nature of early 1960's Invisible Girl and bringing her into the 20(20's probably), that's a potentially thoughtful angle you can go with her as she's had nothing in any of these movies thus far.

    I've also long argued that their jumping straight to Doom was symptomatic of Fox's not really grasping how to use their characters effectively, as he needs some build up and development which you can't accomplish while introducing your cast and doing their origin story. F4 have plenty of villains once you actually look through their material, many could function as a first movie antagonist.

    I'm not really hot on Bob's pitch otherwise, but it's not bad really.
    A potential problem with time travel is that the MCU is kinda playing around with that idea already. Not just Captian America, but Pym the aging boomer, Starlord who hasnt been on earth since the 70s, and in a way Thor too, though he's mostly over his norse upbringing by now. And Dr Strange is a fun reversal, where in a crossover he makes all other characters the fish out of water.

    It does seem a very good hook for the Invisible Woman, though. Heck, making Pym one of Richard's old coworkers would be a great excuse to bring the Antman cast into another film, and bring up the relationship between the Quantum realm and, what was it, the cosmic realm? As well as set up Antman 2 or 3.

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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    If they wanted to soft-intro Doom to the MCU, Triumph and Torment might not be a bad idea. Doctor Strange is an established character now, and having Doom essentially hire him for a trek through Hell would not be entirely outlandish at this point. Plus, starting off Doom from the magic angle is a nice clean break from previous movie incarnations of him. None of those were the second-most powerful sorcerer in the world. It would also give an opening to bring him back since Doom does pay his debts, and will end up owing Strange a favor, and also thoroughly establish that Doom is on the side of Doom. Not good, not evil. Not your side, not their side. Doom's side.

    I mean after that, what more do you need to establish Doom in that setting? Reed Richards? Bah, Doom has no need for that pathetic Richards! (Though Doom being Valeria's Uncle Doom will never not be amazing.)

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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    A potential problem with time travel is that the MCU is kinda playing around with that idea already. Not just Captian America, but Pym the aging boomer, Starlord who hasnt been on earth since the 70s, and in a way Thor too, though he's mostly over his norse upbringing by now. And Dr Strange is a fun reversal, where in a crossover he makes all other characters the fish out of water.
    True, that's a consideration. Part of the issue with Bob's pitch is that Captain America - who's from a era even further back than what he's purposed for the Fantastic Four - has been pretty light on the fish-out-of-water aspect of his character. He may not get contemporary references and has a manner about him that other contemporary characters lack, but there's no real value dissonance with him where he has to question his 1940's worldview after being revived in the 2010's. They could have done that to some degree, but they clearly don't want to. So, it would be odd to tackle it with the F4.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    It does seem a very good hook for the Invisible Woman
    They need something for the Invisible Woman, that's sort of the ground-floor for an acceptable F4 movie at this point.

    Even being as generous as possible with the Tim Story F4 movies Jessica Alba's character there is awful. She spends her time being lusted after, humiliated, or complaining endlessly. You'd forget she supposed to be a Superhero much less a scientist in her own right. I have no idea what sort of thought went into her Fan4stic character, what kind of direction they wanted for her character or why. She kind of exists, because I guess she has to. Marvel Studios can at least do better than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    though. Heck, making Pym one of Richard's old coworkers would be a great excuse to bring the Antman cast into another film, and bring up the relationship between the Quantum realm and, what was it, the cosmic realm? As well as set up Antman 2 or 3.
    It's the Negative Zone, probably.

    I've now spent energy on numerous paragraphs talking about this and I'm not really a fan of the F4 - I like them fine but I'm not deeply invested in them or anything - it just rubs me the wrong way on some deep emotional level to see a movie adaptation which shouldn't really be that hard to create constantly fall under its own feet from a studio which only seems interested in banking on contemporary trends (the Raimi Spider-Man with Story and then Nolan's Batman movies with Trank's) without really exerting any effort to give them the sort of quality that might validate such a direction.

  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    True, that's a consideration. Part of the issue with Bob's pitch is that Captain America - who's from a era even further back than what he's purposed for the Fantastic Four - has been pretty light on the fish-out-of-water aspect of his character. He may not get contemporary references and has a manner about him that other contemporary characters lack, but there's no real value dissonance with him where he has to question his 1940's worldview after being revived in the 2010's. They could have done that to some degree, but they clearly don't want to. So, it would be odd to tackle it with the F4.
    Yes and no. You are right that Rogers is out of time, but Rogers is also The Best Darn Human Being possible.

    Any sort of societal shortcoming he has is merely a product of his environment; not ingrained into him. Once waking up, he would be the first to realize that his old ways were not as great as he was brought up.to believe, and could do a 180 on race, sex and sexuality issues if he experienced the other side of the coin.

    The entire conversation about "the 40s were not as great as you believed" is highlighting this. Yes, he misses some things. Others he doesnt.

    The F4 are nowhere as perfect.

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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    Any sort of societal shortcoming he has is merely a product of his environment; not ingrained into him. Once waking up, he would be the first to realize that his old ways were not as great as he was brought up.to believe, and could do a 180 on race, sex and sexuality issues if he experienced the other side of the coin.
    He wouldn't have to do a 180. In the main comics continuity, Magneto once built a mind control device to enslave the greatest heroes of the world. The devise worked on the principals of reversing one's prejudicces against mutants and thus making them fanatically loyal to the Brotherhood of Mutants.

    It failed to work on Captain America because not only did he not have any prejudices against mutants, but he didn't have any predjudices against anyone and never did.

    Steve Rogers is a moral paragon. That's one of the reasons why he has chosen for the Operation: Rebirth.
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    He wouldn't have to do a 180. In the main comics continuity, Magneto once built a mind control device to enslave the greatest heroes of the world. The devise worked on the principals of reversing one's prejudicces against mutants and thus making them fanatically loyal to the Brotherhood of Mutants.

    It failed to work on Captain America because not only did he not have any prejudices against mutants, but he didn't have any predjudices against anyone and never did.

    Steve Rogers is a moral paragon. That's one of the reasons why he has chosen for the Operation: Rebirth.
    I get that. And when i say "contextual", i mean.. you know, the base ides that someone migy have while not having a single racist bone in his body. Like calling a black a "negro"; he would realize fast withot any issue that its no longer acceptable.

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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    It does seem a very good hook for the Invisible Woman, though. Heck, making Pym one of Richard's old coworkers would be a great excuse to bring the Antman cast into another film.
    Those are some pretty good points in its favour, but man, do I not want to see an entire movie about fish out of the water jokes and people overcoming 1960's biases. That stuff worked for Cap exactly because he was able to defy expectations and adjust almost effortlessly (and also because they didn't base a entire movie on it).

    I don't know how I would do it either though. Their traditional origin story doesn't fit in with the current MCU and has been done to death at this point, so that's out. Maybe the time travel plot can work if you twist it in a different direction?

    How about this:
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    Reed, Sue and Ben are mostly doing fine in this new time. In fact, they are so absorbed by whatever is going on in their own lives (Reed is exploring all the new technology, Sue is catching up to new media landscape to act as the teams pr-person and Ben is wallowing in self pity as per usual) that they don't notice that Johnny, who is in his teens for this version of the story, has a lot of trouble adjusting to the 21st century. He went from popular sportsguy to weird-new-kid-who-doesn't-know-what-a-smartphone-is overnight and he is not ok with it.

    You can have him not be fully in control of his powers so that when he lashes out to one of the other children he actually puts them into a hospital. Then you can use that as the basis for the conflict that drives the team apart so that they have to learn to work together and deal with whatever bad guy comes around to manipulate Johnny for their own ends and yadayadayada, you know how that story goes.

    Still doesn't really work, honestly, but I do think it works better than having "Reed Richards is an *******" as the main driver for your story.
    Last edited by Silver Swift; 2017-12-20 at 07:58 AM.
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ping Pong Along View Post
    I'm not talking about MCU standards of execution. The MCU is fun, but god can it be formulaic. No movie better exhibits this IMO than Dr. Strange which is visually creative, but with an incredibly bland story that we've seen countless times before. There were no risks taken other than changing some character's races, which from what I read was largely to avoid the even bigger risk of backlash.
    I disagree... somewhat. Yes, it can be formulaic, specially for the MAIN thing (anything tightly tied to Avengers, basically). But there are plenty other (successful) movies in MCU that are as far from "formulaic" as Deadpool was. Ant-man, Winter Soldier, GoG and ultimately Thor 3. Do they have a "MCU trademark" all over the place? Sure. But that doesn't make them as formulaic as the rest either. They diverged enough. That is without mentioning all the other productions that are as "challenging" as Deadpool but are tightly related to MCU producers (anything on Netflix). Just because it's a different set and they can't mix stories that doesn't mean they can't receive some help from their sibling teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Ping Pong Along View Post
    Something I want to make clear is that I'm a fan of both the MCU and the X-men franchise. But I feel like the diversity in style is of the utmost importance. It's clear we're not going to get this from DC who've panicked from one project to the next (generally with good reason).
    But diversity doesn't guarantee or equal success. Or quality of any kind, for that matter. I'm more of a fan of X-men comics, specially anything previous to the grand downfall of comic stories (pre Civil War). And on the other hand, MCU offered way more diversity than Fox has granted to their mutant films. Barring Deadpool/Logan, I can't really distinguish any Wolverine film from early X-men movies; and anything after First Class was basically Mystique-porn* all over the films. Fox has proved they can also be formulaic. And when they aren't, they tend to screw up (F4nt4st1c4)

    *No, not that kind of porn. The boring one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post
    I'm super excited that X-Men and Fantastic Four are back with Marvel.

    My suggestion would be that they avoid adding them to the current cinematic universe. It's too far in and it has enough characters and it is nearly culminating in it's grand finale Infinity Wars.

    There are plenty of characters and villains and arcs in X-Men and FF to create a second cinematic universe. It can still be connected to the first, so to speak, and they can have cameos and stuff, but they should do a new one that is mostly self-contained. X-Men have the Mojoverse and the Shi'ar Empire and time travel arcs if they want to get weird. And of course plenty of great villains. The Fantastic Four also have cosmic connections and Doom.

    Point being, there is plenty for them to do without needing to cram them into the current cinematic universe.
    If we are lucky enough, they will meld into Netflix-verse rather than main MCU, which I think would allow for better portrait of comic-based stories (allowing a Deadpool kind of narrative). Because let's be honest, every X-men fan is well aware that:

    - X-men characters were never meant to be in "heroic" stories,
    - the best X-men stories tend to be those that have a greater impact on the personal level, rather than macro-scale
    - the most beloved X-people (Gambit, Rogue, Cyke, Wolvie, Storm, Angel, et al*) have more in common with Jessica Jones than with Steve Rogers.

    *or anyone that appeared in the 90' series that wasn't Jubilation Lee, Ice-Man or a Morlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    A potential problem with time travel is that the MCU is kinda playing around with that idea already. Not just Captian America, but Pym the aging boomer, Starlord who hasnt been on earth since the 70s, and in a way Thor too, though he's mostly over his norse upbringing by now. And Dr Strange is a fun reversal, where in a crossover he makes all other characters the fish out of water..
    Wasn't it more like since the '80? (not that I pay attention to those details anyway) Besides... he has Godly genes. Some Rejuvenating Factor wouldn't be ludicrous in the least. And Thor is supposed to be a bajillion years old in the comics, what would be strange is if he aged at all during the movies.
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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by joeltion View Post
    Wasn't it more like since the '80?
    He was abducted in 1988. The rest of the film happens "26 years later", i.e. 2014. It's anyone's guess as to how old he was meant to be in those scenes (Dawson casting being what it is), but if he was meant to be, say, 6, he'd be in his 30s, which fits the character.

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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by joeltion View Post
    - the most beloved X-people (Gambit, Rogue, Cyke, Wolvie, Storm, Angel, et al*) have more in common with Jessica Jones than with Steve Rogers.

    *or anyone that appeared in the 90' series that wasn't Jubilation Lee, Ice-Man or a Morlock
    *AHEM*

    Do I need to go fetch my rocket launchers...?
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2017-12-20 at 02:50 PM.

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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    What you forget with Cap is that he was a hippie liberal back in the 40s. I mean, look at his life:

    Raised poor by a single mother

    Chronic health problems

    Anti-establishment vibe (hates bullies, no matter who they are)

    Dr Erskine dispels notions about how All Germans are Nazis

    Peggy Carter, Derek Luke, Jim Morita and the rest of the Howling Commandos show him about 'others'

    And finally Howard Stark shows him not all rich white guys are teh ebil

    Basically, by the time he gets frozen he's had most of his prejudices challenged and defeated

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    Default Re: Disney buys large parts of Fox - Marvel get back X-Men/F4!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Swift View Post
    Still doesn't really work, honestly, but I do think it works better than having "Reed Richards is an *******" as the main driver for your story.
    Yeah, that's also where I'm not hot on Bob's premise. It's easy to make Reed a ****, the comics do it frequently. I don't really want them leaning into that.

    One of the great things the MCU has done as a whole is being openly enthusiastic about characters using their intelligence. Sure, you can point to any number of idiot ball circumstances in plots which can undermine the supposed intelligence of a character, but as a whole smart = cool has been there starting from Iron Man. That's in part why I would really want to like Reed Richards as a character, with what he represents in the Marvel Universe.

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