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    S@tanicoaldo's Avatar

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    Default Ganymede or Titan which one is more resanable for a human base?

    So my players are going to leave the underground complex in the moon they have been born and raised in the hopes to see earth as the media and data they have collected seems to indicate.

    The plot twist I'm planning is that they are in a moon not the moon.

    so the options I'm considering are Ganymede or Titan.

    Which one you guys recommend?
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    Default Re: Ganymede or Titan which one is more resanable for a human base?

    Well, Saturn's farther from Earth than Jupiter. Saturn also lacks the terribly destructive radiation belts that Jupiter has. I mean, it has radiation belts, but they're not as nasty as Jupiter's. Also, you've got 12+ years of Cassini photos to stun your players with, and you can probably even get some footage from the Huygens probe that actually touched down on Titan in 2005. Juno's only been at Jupiter for a year-and-a-half, and it's expected that its external camera won't last more than a few more orbits (due to the aforementioned nasty radiation belts).

    So my vote's for Titan.
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    Default Re: Ganymede or Titan which one is more resanable for a human base?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Torath View Post
    Well, Saturn's farther from Earth than Jupiter. Saturn also lacks the terribly destructive radiation belts that Jupiter has. I mean, it has radiation belts, but they're not as nasty as Jupiter's. Also, you've got 12+ years of Cassini photos to stun your players with, and you can probably even get some footage from the Huygens probe that actually touched down on Titan in 2005. Juno's only been at Jupiter for a year-and-a-half, and it's expected that its external camera won't last more than a few more orbits (due to the aforementioned nasty radiation belts).

    So my vote's for Titan.
    This is the kind of stuff I was looking for!

    Yeah besides Titan has a better sounding name. Btw is there any other moon tha is less radiation, a cool name and it's or our moon? If you have any other moon relatable trivia or adivice feel free to share. :D
    Last edited by S@tanicoaldo; 2017-12-15 at 11:00 AM.
    I'm not a native english speaker and I'm dyslexic(that doesn't mean I have low IQ quite the opposite actually it means I make a lot of typos).

    So I beg for forgiveness, patience and comprehension.

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    It's like somewhere along the way, "freedom of speech" became "all negative response is censorship".
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    Default Re: Ganymede or Titan which one is more resanable for a human base?

    Callisto has less radiation from Jupiter than Ganymede does, and is still a bit larger than Earth's moon.
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    Default Re: Ganymede or Titan which one is more resanable for a human base?

    I think Titan's your best option. I'll throw another one out from a different thread in this forum:

    Quirinus, an artificial moon of Mars, was created by fusing several asteroids and Mars' original two moons together. The moon exists to induce a magnetosphere on Mars, which is also being bombarded with asteroids to increase its mass, water, and oxygen content. Quirinus is used to observe and supervise terraforming efforts. It is a hollow orb spun for gravity, containing a sealed inner atmosphere. In addition to providing tidal forces, the moon is a manufacturing center, producing equipment and power from raw material mined from asteroids. Waste material from this process is slagged and distributed evenly on the moon's surface to increase its mass and add to its radiation shielding.
    Last edited by Leewei; 2017-12-15 at 12:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Ganymede or Titan which one is more resanable for a human base?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leewei View Post
    I think Titan's your best option. I'll throw another one out from a different thread in this forum:

    Quirinus, an artificial moon of Mars, was created by fusing several asteroids and Mars' original two moons together. The moon exists to induce a magnetosphere on Mars, which is also being bombarded with asteroids to increase its mass, water, and oxygen content. Quirinus is used to observe and supervise terraforming efforts. It is a hollow orb spun for gravity, containing a sealed inner atmosphere. In addition to providing tidal forces, the moon is a manufacturing center, producing equipment and power from raw material mined from asteroids. Waste material from this process is slagged and distributed evenly on the moon's surface to increase its mass and add to its radiation shielding.
    If it's spun for gravity, how does slag spread on the outer surface stay there?
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    Default Re: Ganymede or Titan which one is more resanable for a human base?

    Quote Originally Posted by gomipile View Post
    If it's spun for gravity, how does slag spread on the outer surface stay there?
    Haha! Good point!

    The slagging would have to have been done onto the undersides of platforms fixed close to the outer surface.
    Last edited by Leewei; 2017-12-15 at 01:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Ganymede or Titan which one is more resanable for a human base?

    Titan. It's basically primordial Earth, if Earth was a tidally locked and lower massed moon located in the Outer System.
    Last edited by WhatThePhysics; 2017-12-17 at 05:30 AM.

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    Default Re: Ganymede or Titan which one is more resanable for a human base?

    Bedrock of solid ice, ammonia seas, methane rain. Titan is truly the garden moon of the solar system.

    Pick an airless one like the conjoined twin Miranda. At least there you only have to worry about vacuum.

    Gravity. None of the outer moons have much. Heck, even the three inner moons are lacking. What is the source of your gravity? Natural? Artificial? Some of each, so you have habitat areas at 1g but outside natural gravity reigns? Gravity can be as important a geographical feature to travellers as a river or mountain.

    And now it occurs to me that a prison on a planet that instantly turns you into a fudgickle if you try to escape might be interesting.
    Last edited by brian 333; 2017-12-17 at 10:10 AM.

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    Default Re: Ganymede or Titan which one is more resanable for a human base?

    Titan also has the interesting factor that it doesn't require a pressure suit to survive (only a suit to deal with the atmosphere, which I believe is both unbreathable and corrosive). I assume you're going for a 'low g people' vibe with them, where they're used to the moon's gravity, so it shouldn't be a massive problem dealing with the low gravity in-session.
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    Default Re: Ganymede or Titan which one is more resanable for a human base?

    Quote Originally Posted by S@tanicoaldo View Post
    So my players are going to leave the underground complex in the moon they have been born and raised in the hopes to see earth as the media and data they have collected seems to indicate.

    The plot twist I'm planning is that they are in a moon not the moon.

    so the options I'm considering are Ganymede or Titan.

    Which one you guys recommend?
    One thing about Titan - if your players emerge from underground onto the surface of Titan they aren't going to see anything. The surface of Titan receives only about 0.1% of the light Earth receives at the surface due to a combination of greater distance from the sun and atmospheric opacity. So it's a black darkness all the time.

    As for Ganymede, well, the surface of Ganymede is made of water ice, not rock, above a massive subsurface ocean. So an underground base would have to be set into the ice, which would make it pretty clear that one is not on Earth's moon. This is actually true of most of the satellites in the outer half of the solar system - they are icy rather than rocky, especially at the surface.
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    Default Re: Ganymede or Titan which one is more resanable for a human base?

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    Bedrock of solid ice, ammonia seas, methane rain. Titan is truly the garden moon of the solar system.
    The ice will melt into a lake around a colony, and the combination of low gravity and a thick atmosphere will let you remain in the air with a combination of buoyancy and propellers. The ammonia seas can be mitigated with polymers resistant to its ionizing effects. What's so bad about methane rain?

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    Pick an airless one like the conjoined twin Miranda. At least there you only have to worry about vacuum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    Gravity. None of the outer moons have much. Heck, even the three inner moons are lacking. What is the source of your gravity? Natural? Artificial? Some of each, so you have habitat areas at 1g but outside natural gravity reigns? Gravity can be as important a geographical feature to travellers as a river or mountain.
    Low gravity? No problem. Just live in a big centrifuge with a low RPM, and use telepresence androids to do stuff outside your habitat.

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    Default Re: Ganymede or Titan which one is more resanable for a human base?

    Quote Originally Posted by WhatThePhysics View Post
    Low gravity? No problem. Just live in a big centrifuge with a low RPM, and use telepresence androids to do stuff outside your habitat.
    That would work in a space habitat, but probably not so much on a moon--while the gravity in such places is low, it's not non-existent, which means that the gravity on a vertical centrifuge will vary depending on what point of the rotation you are and that on a horizontal centrifuge will have a constant offset so it'll be like walking on the side of a hill all the time.

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    Default Re: Ganymede or Titan which one is more resanable for a human base?

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    That would work in a space habitat, but probably not so much on a moon--while the gravity in such places is low, it's not non-existent, which means that the gravity on a vertical centrifuge will vary depending on what point of the rotation you are and that on a horizontal centrifuge will have a constant offset so it'll be like walking on the side of a hill all the time.
    A horizontal centrifuge would give more useful surface area to colonists, and the natural gravity can be combined with the spin gravity. An angle produced by Titan's surface and the colonist's "up" would be acute, since Titan's surface gravity is ~13.8% that of Earth's, but engineers could just build a habitat with a sloped floor that works with this. Progressively central portions of the habitat, which could be accessed using elevators with gyroscopic seats, would have flatter surfaces and lower total gravities. Problem solved.

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    Default Re: Ganymede or Titan which one is more resanable for a human base?

    By the time you've gone to that extent it seems to me you've just built a space station anyway, only you've done it on the ground so it's much harder to get to than an actual space station would be--I mean, you're essentially talking about taking a sizeable building and spinning it, which is a very non-trivial thing to be doing.

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    Default Re: Ganymede or Titan which one is more resanable for a human base?

    If the OP is going for a moon that could be mistaken for Luna by folks who live there, your options are limited. Miranda is one of the few rocky moons of the outer Solar system.

    And stellar radiation isn't the issue out near Saturn that it is near Earth. However, the US Navy has been creating magnetic bottles for decades now, and building an effective magnetic shield for the rare particle storms which reach the outer system is far easier to accomplish than one might think. It hasn't been done in a spacecraft yet because we haven't made the jump to Mars yet. But when we do you'll learn all about degaussing and induced magnetic fields.

    Does the moon have to be one of the known moons of the system? A Kuiper Belt Object on its nearest pass to the sun in billions of years might serve as it spends the next few centuries passing inside the orbit of Uranus before heading back to the icy void. Such an object could easily be Luna sized or larger, and of any composition the writer likes.

    Perhaps it's on a cometary trajectory and approaches the sun often enough to burn off hydrogen ice accretion, leaving it one of the few polished spheres in the Solar System, but on a path which prevented observation by telescope. Six hundred years ago it was on its way out of the inner system, so Gallileo turned his scope to the heavens just a few weeks too late to spot Cue Ball, and in the time of the story its on its way back in to round the sun inside of Mars' orbit. Or adjust the orbit to suit the story. Such a rogue planet might serve to placate the science purists while offering more precisely the scenes envisioned by the OP.

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    Default Re: Ganymede or Titan which one is more resanable for a human base?

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    By the time you've gone to that extent it seems to me you've just built a space station anyway, only you've done it on the ground so it's much harder to get to than an actual space station would be--I mean, you're essentially talking about taking a sizeable building and spinning it, which is a very non-trivial thing to be doing.
    Unless you can tolerate living with 13.8% of Earth's gravity, you'll want a horizontal centrifuge on Titan's surface. Alternatives include, but aren't limited to, compressive clothing, lots of weights, electrical muscle stimulation, and/or genetic modifications. I may be wrong, but the low ambient temperatures should provide more ways to levitate and spin stuff, and you only need 2 RPM to provide the remaining 86.2% of Earth gravity at the edge of a 400 meter wide habitat. Yeah, a 148 km/h rim speed's no joke, but you can takeoff and land in a central platform, and enter the habitat aquatically with a central dock that's accessible to submarines. If you use the aforementioned alternatives along with the centrifuge, you can even cut back on the necessary RPM.

    Otherwise, why bother living on Titan at all? Just live in orbit, and interact with the surface via telepresence androids.
    Last edited by WhatThePhysics; 2017-12-18 at 10:40 AM.

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