Exalted, Third Edition

[SaurOps]

My understanding is that the Immaculate Faith is basically universal across Creation, minus a few groups like the Lintha. That doesn't mean that everyone is fanatical about it (especially considering the way that religion and cosmology work in Exalted). I could easily see Lookshy publicly repudiating Anathema while making discreet and deniable backroom deals with them to get leg a up against the Realm, but I will entirely admit that this might contradict canon (to which I would also add "burn down whatever established canon there is and do whatever you want with the game").

No, it does not in fact make deals of this sort with any degree of regularity. It views Anathema as a threat to the security of the region on par with the Realm, or possibly worse, and thinks many of the same things about them that the Realm does. The fact that the Mask of Winters, one of their greatest foes, commands many Anathema means that it would generally take another massive invasion of Fair Folk to get them to make any Enemy Mine arrangement, and those don't happen anymore, since the Realm Defense Grid pretty solidly reduced the teeming hordes of fae to a few patches of stragglers who can't readily expand their territory to any meaningful degree.

[houlio]

No, it does not in fact make deals of this sort with any degree of regularity. It views Anathema as a threat to the security of the region on par with the Realm, or possibly worse, and thinks many of the same things about them that the Realm does. The fact that the Mask of Winters, one of their greatest foes, commands many Anathema means that it would generally take another massive invasion of Fair Folk to get them to make any Enemy Mine arrangement, and those don't happen anymore, since the Realm Defense Grid pretty solidly reduced the teeming hordes of fae to a few patches of stragglers who can't readily expand their territory to any meaningful degree.

Sure, that makes total sense to me. However, I also don’t think that the only possible interpretation of Lookshy policy based on their position in the setting. I could also pretty easily see Lookshy’s General Staff desperately looking for anything to give them a leg up against a new and unknown foe at the same time that other elements of the General Staff take a hardline approach on Anathema.

And again, I’m not terribly interested in canon, but I believe it’s a legitimate possibility to hat can see play on more tables than mine.

Nope that is about entirely how Lookshy does it in canon. Provided your discreet enough about whatever you are that they can deny knowing you were Anathema they won't look to hard. Go flaring your banner all up and down the street? Same result as anywhere else. Keep it low key so that people could reasonably claim your just an unusually skilled god-blooded? They won't look too hard.

I was just thinking that would be an interesting dragonblooded game. The players are all in some super black-ops assignment to remove traces of Lookshy and Solar cooperation.

[Morty]

Seems like the new Adversaries of the Chosen chapter has a mortal empowered by one of the Deathlords, but not an Abyssal. It's not a god-blooded, but I feel like it's an example of what empowered people who aren't Exalted might look like.

[SaurOps]

Sure, that makes total sense to me. However, I also don’t think that the only possible interpretation of Lookshy policy based on their position in the setting. I could also pretty easily see Lookshy’s General Staff desperately looking for anything to give them a leg up against a new and unknown foe at the same time that other elements of the General Staff take a hardline approach on Anathema.

And again, I’m not terribly interested in canon, but I believe it’s a legitimate possibility to hat can see play on more tables than mine.

Lookshy is principled to the point of falling on its sword. See also, the Gunzota Incident. They were willing to sacrifice massive quantities of lives, valuable equipment, and a strategic vantage point to make sure that cronyism and corruption were gutted and curtailed near-completely. This is the sort of reaction that hardliners would have if they got wind of a pro-Solar faction... but seriously, they're as unlikely to have one as the Realm is. Their influence is predicated on Dragon-Blooded hegemonic society. There's no room in the culture that they uphold for supporting Celestial Exalted, and anyone willing to cross that line is going to be all alone when the hammer comes down on them for it.

Also, what "new, unknown foe" is there that they couldn't handle? EX3 eschews dropping world-dooming threats into the setting because it didn't work out very well the last two times they just went wild with them. It also doesn't assume that Dragon-Blooded are completely helpless even with First Age artifice, and they have about ten times as many Dragon-Blooded as there are Solars, Abyssals, and Infernals combined, as well as a culture that embraces sorcery as a craft to be mastered and put into service for the Seventh Legion, even if by mortals. They seriously do not need help to keep rolling their own way.

[houlio]

Lookshy is principled to the point of falling on its sword. See also, the Gunzota Incident. They were willing to sacrifice massive quantities of lives, valuable equipment, and a strategic vantage point to make sure that cronyism and corruption were gutted and curtailed near-completely. This is the sort of reaction that hardliners would have if they got wind of a pro-Solar faction... but seriously, they're as unlikely to have one as the Realm is. Their influence is predicated on Dragon-Blooded hegemonic society. There's no room in the culture that they uphold for supporting Celestial Exalted, and anyone willing to cross that line is going to be all alone when the hammer comes down on them for it.

Got that citation (as in which book its from)? Not out of any kind of challenge, but because I just want to more about the lore and would love to hear it. I've been thinking that the kind of internal power struggle of whether or not to tacitly work with celestial exalted would be some primo tier drama for a Lookshy based DB game.

I can also see any "non-hardliners" (haven't recently read up on every major Gens, but that's probably most of them) ready to at least let celestial exalted go to work without interference assuming that Lookshy maintains its sovereignty. I don't really see their involvement in the River Province as anything other than extended self-interest. Despite what their fancy shogunate honor says, I don't see the river province being any worse off under the Realm overall than what it is now.

Also, what "new, unknown foe" is there that they couldn't handle? EX3 eschews dropping world-dooming threats into the setting because it didn't work out very well the last two times they just went wild with them. It also doesn't assume that Dragon-Blooded are completely helpless even with First Age artifice, and they have about ten times as many Dragon-Blooded as there are Solars, Abyssals, and Infernals combined, as well as a culture that embraces sorcery as a craft to be mastered and put into service for the Seventh Legion, even if by mortals. They seriously do not need help to keep rolling their own way.

Seems to me that a sudden invasion of ghosts and a city-sized monstrosity as well as a whole new brand of Anathema entirely fits with "new, unknown foe". However, I'm getting the sense that the two of us would get more mileage out of running our Lookshys differently, so if yours is entirely prepared for every circumstance (like being suddenly invaded by previously unknown existential threats) then that seems entirely plausible. I tend to think of Lookshy and the Realm as essentially existing in a Cold War without any international treaties limiting strategic weapons (so both are constantly looking to get a new world-shattering upper hand). As you seem to have entirely convincing information to the contrary, I still think that having a fifth column secretly working with celestial exalts is a great plot point for any Exalted, whether it is with the Realm or Lookshy. I assume this is going to be a point upon which we won't agree.

If you don't think that way, I'm not here to stop you. I just think that a place like Lookshy can roll a lot of different ways, especially if you want to add in multiple and competing sources of power in your game. I've said before that IMC (In My Creation) should just be adopted wholesale for Exalted.

Seems like the new Adversaries of the Chosen chapter has a mortal empowered by one of the Deathlords, but not an Abyssal. It's not a god-blooded, but I feel like it's an example of what empowered people who aren't Exalted might look like.

I might take a look at this one. I haven't had much chance to look at most of these after the first one (in a volunteer corps and so get very little money each month), but this sounds as cool as the one where they introduce a baby leviathan.

[SaurOps]

Got that citation (as in which book its from)? Not out of any kind of challenge, but because I just want to more about the lore and would love to hear it. I've been thinking that the kind of internal power struggle of whether or not to tacitly work with celestial exalted would be some primo tier drama for a Lookshy based DB game.

Exalted: the Outcaste for 1e. While there may be some changes, it still seems in line with their 3e presentation.

I can also see any "non-hardliners" (haven't recently read up on every major Gens, but that's probably most of them) ready to at least let celestial exalted go to work without interference assuming that Lookshy maintains its sovereignty. I don't really see their involvement in the River Province as anything other than extended self-interest. Despite what their fancy shogunate honor says, I don't see the river province being any worse off under the Realm overall than what it is now.

Let me reiterate - they have the same basic foundation of beliefs that the Realm was built on. Anathema in this world view are considered dangerously unstable at the absolute best, and widely believed otherwise to simply be body-stealing demon-sorcerers that robbed the power of the Unconquered Sun and Luna with profane rituals at the behest of the Yozis. In other words, a threat on par with Fair Folk. People earnestly believe the tales of Anathema to be perfectly well descriptive of what they can expect out of Solars and Lunars, particularly since the latter are quite put out with the Dragon-Blooded of the Shogunate and the Realm, and go on the warpath time and again to grind down Dragon-Blooded hegemony as supported by First Age artifice. This sort of behavior does not endear Celestials of any kind to even hesitant believers of the Immaculate Philosophy.

Seems to me that a sudden invasion of ghosts and a city-sized monstrosity as well as a whole new brand of Anathema entirely fits with "new, unknown foe".

If the Mask brings Juggernaut too close to the actual city instead of merely just keeping it parked in Thorns, he'd most likely end up getting blown up by a combination of coordinated strike teams and every major Gens having an heirloom daiklave. Going by the original lore, though, Juggernaut is just an incubator for the ghost-eating maggots he planned on using to conquer the kingdoms of his peers, so he doesn't have that much of an interest in expanding that far out into the skinlands.

Another point is that the Abyssal Exalted tend to feed into peoples' beliefs of Solars being corrupt. After all, they came from the place where the Immaculate Dragon of Water sealed the Solars during the Great Uprising. That's not going to do you any favors at the negotiation table, even if you definitely aren't an Abyssal or associated with them in any way.

However, I'm getting the sense that the two of us would get more mileage out of running our Lookshys differently, so if yours is entirely prepared for every circumstance (like being suddenly invaded by previously unknown existential threats) then that seems entirely plausible. I tend to think of Lookshy and the Realm as essentially existing in a Cold War without any international treaties limiting strategic weapons (so both are constantly looking to get a new world-shattering upper hand). As you seem to have entirely convincing information to the contrary, I still think that having a fifth column secretly working with celestial exalts is a great plot point for any Exalted, whether it is with the Realm or Lookshy. I assume this is going to be a point upon which we won't agree.

My general impression of Lookshy allying with Celestials is that it's incredibly out of character for Lookshy, which takes pride in its long-standing position as Shogunate holdouts. Any organization willing to do this within the city is going to be a tiny, tiny minority, much like the agitators that accidentally created the Lookshy Rebel, and likely not in a position of influence. I'd find it difficult to believe that anyone in the General Staff or the named Gentes is particularly interested, but some citizens who feel that they've been slighted might be.

[Braininthejar2]

What are the most important 2ed books to learn about the south?

[jindra34]

Lets clear up the Lookshy-Celestial teamwork thing: Lookshy will murder the crap out of any decisive Anathema they find in their city (and given that they have more working First Age tech than the Realm, that isn't an exageration). What they will do is allow highly skilled '*-bloods' who manage to keep their hands squeaky clean and not raise too many questions of competency beyond age/training and what not into their Academy. At least thats was the early 2E cannon.

[SaurOps]

Lets clear up the Lookshy-Celestial teamwork thing: Lookshy will murder the crap out of any decisive Anathema they find in their city (and given that they have more working First Age tech than the Realm, that isn't an exageration). What they will do is allow highly skilled '*-bloods' who manage to keep their hands squeaky clean and not raise too many questions of competency beyond age/training and what not into their Academy. At least thats was the early 2E cannon.

I wouldn't look to 2e canon for anything on Lookshy, since it went from slobberingly eager to get Solars to wanting to kill them at the drop of a hat. One could argue that it eventually settled back into its mostly 1e mode in Scroll of Exalts, given that Linwei and Fire Orchid were in it, and the latter's status as a Zenith was not presented as something that Lookshy would accept. At present, though, we can probably throw out most of CoTD: Scavenger Lands (not just the Lookshy part, either) when speaking about what lore made it into 3e.

[houlio]

What are the most important 2ed books to learn about the south?

Well, there's the Compass of Terrestrial Directions book for the South. Those have a tendency to go into a huge amount of detail, which can be both helpful and obnoxious when they don't actually tell you what you might need to know. Another very popular book (although it is from 1e) is Scavenger Sons. Scavenger Sons gives a brief and informative overview of every direction as well as the big places in each, and in general I found to be a much better read because of it.

[SaurOps]

Well, there's the Compass of Terrestrial Directions book for the South. Those have a tendency to go into a huge amount of detail, which can be both helpful and obnoxious when they don't actually tell you what you might need to know. Another very popular book (although it is from 1e) is Scavenger Sons. Scavenger Sons gives a brief and informative overview of every direction as well as the big places in each, and in general I found to be a much better read because of it.

Also, sample character concepts to use for people from said location, for each Solar Caste.

[Braininthejar2]

Well, there's the Compass of Terrestrial Directions book for the South. Those have a tendency to go into a huge amount of detail, which can be both helpful and obnoxious when they don't actually tell you what you might need to know. Another very popular book (although it is from 1e) is Scavenger Sons. Scavenger Sons gives a brief and informative overview of every direction as well as the big places in each, and in general I found to be a much better read because of it.

Also, sample character concepts to use for people from said location, for each Solar Caste.

Thank you kindly

[Andreaz]

HA!

thats funny. its not really crusade though.

It really is. It really, really is. And its been for a long time.

[Lord Raziere]

It really is. It really, really is. And its been for a long time.

Hey if you think I'm still that guy, after I've moved on and had years to play entirely different games and get over Exalted, and come into this thread dragging that back up thats your fault. I don't need to prove anything to you. I'm done chasing the elusive "intended Exalted setting.". I've played characters that could be multiple Exalted in one, I've seen, played and have fun with many things that I had more consistent fun with than Exalted ever did, from video games to freeform. Its just one setting of many, and if I ever play a game of it with a character I want, thats cool, but I'm not counting on it and am focusing on things that I CAN count on to actually play. Don't sell yourself on a game you'll never actually play. Thats a losing deal.

[Andreaz]

While we have some people versed in exalted 3rd ed here:

What happens if an archer charm designed for hitting multiple targets is employed against a battle group? Or is it not a legal target?

There's nothing specific ruled out.

Some effects, especially those that spread damage around, do full damage to battle groups without them counting against your spread.
For example: if you have to spread initiative between your targets and there's 3 individuals and one group each individual takes Init/3 dice and the battle group takes Init dice.


Effects that deal full damage to everyone don't usually have anything going for them in this sense. Death of Obsidian Butterflies specifically deals more damage to battle groups. Strike of the Brilliant Raptor's hazard, for example, can clearly hit an entire battle group and does nothing in special against them.


It's worth remembering that decisive attacks always deal extra damage against battle groups. And a lot of it, 1 level per 4 dice.

[SaurOps]

Hey if you think I'm still that guy, after I've moved on and had years to play entirely different games and get over Exalted, and come into this thread dragging that back up thats your fault. I don't need to prove anything to you. I'm done chasing the elusive "intended Exalted setting.". I've played characters that could be multiple Exalted in one, I've seen, played and have fun with many things that I had more consistent fun with than Exalted ever did, from video games to freeform. Its just one setting of many, and if I ever play a game of it with a character I want, thats cool, but I'm not counting on it and am focusing on things that I CAN count on to actually play. Don't sell yourself on a game you'll never actually play. Thats a losing deal.

Why respond to bait if you're over it, though? Also, most of us aren't here because they fooled themselves into it. There is no sense of irony in diving into EX3 for me, and probably not for most of the posters on the thread.

[Lord Raziere]

Why respond to bait if you're over it, though? Also, most of us aren't here because they fooled themselves into it. There is no sense of irony in diving into EX3 for me, and probably not for most of the posters on the thread.

See said post you just quoted about not needing to prove self to you about anything. I mostly just responded out of curiosity to see what memetic presence my old "crusades" had. Like what do people remember of me, do they remember "YELLOW IZ BAD, I HATE SOLARS" Raziere, "MOAR MAGITECH" Raziere, "DB's SHOULD BE CELESTIMITALS" Raziere, "RESONANCE IZ BAD" Raziere, I'm not counting lunars everyone has a bone to pick with those, and I don't remember any specific thing that I had with Sidereals or Infernals just that other people had problems with them, so I'm just like "oh boy, lets see what old crazy thing this person thinks of me, this should be amusing."

[Morty]

Nothing says "I'm over this game and I don't care" better than posting in a thread with an inaccurate and unhelpful answer, then responding with an unrelated rant about old grievances when someone corrects you. But people are paying attention to you now, so your goal has certainly been accomplished.

[Andreaz]

Asked the devs yesterday and indeed there isn't any particular rule for aoes against battlegroups.

My suggestion is to stick with the "spread damage aoes do full damage to bgs without counting against the limit" and, if you really want a particular withering aoe to murder the battle group, let it ignore size bonuses to soak. I would do this only to aoes that clearly and undeniably hit everyone in the bg. Decisives already are nasty enough against them with the automatic extra damage.

[Morty]

Yes, battlegroups are generally squishy enough against a dedicated Exalted combatant attacking them that adding more damage feels kind of excessive.

[Lord Raziere]

Nothing says "I'm over this game and I don't care" better than posting in a thread with an inaccurate and unhelpful answer, then responding with an unrelated rant about old grievances when someone corrects you. But people are paying attention to you now, so your goal has certainly been accomplished.

Wow, bitter much?

This is a game dude, stop taking it so seriously. That was a joke, a jape, lighten up.

[Morty]

Looks like we'll have a Lunar in the next Adversaries of the Righteous. "Subject to change" caveat aside, another peek into what their Charms will look like is long-awaited.

[houlio]

So, it looks like the DB Kickstarter will be starting March 27. Looks like OPP will be using the same style they have for their recent kickstarters, where they release the finished, art free text to backers so they can choose to leave the project if they don’t enjoy the mechanics.

[Rockphed]

So, it looks like the DB Kickstarter will be starting March 27. Looks like OPP will be using the same style they have for their recent kickstarters, where they release the finished, art free text to backers so they can choose to leave the project if they don’t enjoy the mechanics.

Wait, they wrote the mechanics before starting the Kickstarter? What is wrong with these people? Surely they don't know how kickstarter is supposed to work! You are supposed to string hapless rubes along with a promise of what things might look like and then use the kickstarter monies to have a party worthy of heaven and see what sort of chocolate-induced madness results!

[Lord Raziere]

Dragon-Blooded is coming?



I'm looking forward to it.

[Morty]

So, it looks like the DB Kickstarter will be starting March 27. Looks like OPP will be using the same style they have for their recent kickstarters, where they release the finished, art free text to backers so they can choose to leave the project if they don’t enjoy the mechanics.

It does seem to be their thing nowadays, and I can't say I'm complaining. I got the Changeling rules this way, and I plan to do the same for Dragon-Blooded.

[Delta]

Definitely much better this way. I don't even care about having the text in advance (I learned that with the new Scion edition, reading RPG rulebooks in pure text form without layout is just not something I enjoy, feels more like studying for a test than fun for me), but the simple fact that the text is already done means that you can trust the book will actually be out sometime soon after the KS, and that's a good thing after everything that went wrong with Ex3 so far. It definitely feels like they learned at least some of the right lessons from that.

[houlio]

As far as the difficulty of reading it goes, we’ll also have the benefit of other kind folks on the internet to dissect and discuss it with.

I’m quite excited for the Kickstarter. DBs have always been more my jam than other exalt types. I think I find the level they play at much more interesting narratively. I love the pseudo L5R setting of Dynasts.

[tonberrian]

I'm happy for DBs insofarasmuch it means new games recruiting, both DBs and Solars to fight them. But I'll probably find something to love in there too.

[SaurOps]

As far as the difficulty of reading it goes, we’ll also have the benefit of other kind folks on the internet to dissect and discuss it with.

I’m quite excited for the Kickstarter. DBs have always been more my jam than other exalt types. I think I find the level they play at much more interesting narratively. I love the pseudo L5R setting of Dynasts.

I wouldn't really relate anything in the Realm to anything in L5R, even with the pseudo prefix. If you're looking for samurai, those are more in Lookshy's bag, but handled in no way, shape, or form like in L5R. The political landscape is also rather different, since the Realm is looking to spread out and roll over everything so that it pays for a bunch of new palaces, rather than keeping to their island and eschewing the outside world as being a kind of taint on their society (they do think that everyone else is inferior, but their actions based on this assumption are worlds away).