Exalted, Third Edition

[Jeivar]

I never played either of the previous two games, but I did buy the core book for second edition. I meant to get a game started, but my play group wasn't very interested, and eventually disintegrated anyway.

Now I'm part of a solid new group, and I'm thinking of grabbing 3rd edition off of Drivethrurgp and eventually getting an Exalted game going.

Can I get some general thoughts on the 3rd edition version, and how it compares to 2nd?

Oh, and the Drivethrurpg page has quite a few complaints about the binding breaking up. Does anyone here encounter this problem?

[The Random NPC]

I've never actually played either game, but I did a bit of research for a game I was supposed to play last year. From what I hear, 2e was a mess, with the errata changing enough that it was playable, but still unwieldy. 3e made it a lot more playable but there was a bunch of little changes that annoyed the fandom. Sorry I can't be of more help, and of course if someone contradicts me go with their explanation.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I played a bit of 2e and found it kind of a confused muddle, though I will admit to never really sitting down and digging into the rulebook. (The fact that there's a full 200 page "scroll of errata" that contains, as I understand things, significant overhauls may have had something to do with that). I did sit down with the 3e book, and played a few months' worth of campaign, and I very much enjoyed the new system. The setting chapter was full of briefly described cool places that made me want to explore them*, the combat, while crunchy as all get-out, was very fun and mechanically innovative, the social mechanics were clever, and the rules were fairly straightforward throughout... I really liked it.



*grumble grumble read about places like Palanquin (a city built on and around four giant statues holding an island aloft, containing a gate to a primordeal heaven) and Izahuaca (a pseudo-Aztec jungle city ruled by serpentfolk) and find the game stuck in generic-corrupt-London-analogue-23423 Nexus grumble grumble.

[houlio]

The 3rd Edition is a lot better than than 2nd in most regards. The system is still really crunchy and big though, so it can take a pretty significant investment from players as well to really get into it. I ran a couple campaigns that went for a few months each before schedules inevitably changed and they became impossible to play.

For 3rd, it's really helpful to start the game as mortal characters and have them play for most of a session that way. This lets them get a handle on the basics of the rules, as all the charms you get and use after exalting are basically ways to "cheat" the underlying system.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The 3rd Edition is a lot better than than 2nd in most regards. The system is still really crunchy and big though, so it can take a pretty significant investment from players as well to really get into it. I ran a couple campaigns that went for a few months each before schedules inevitably changed and they became impossible to play.

For 3rd, it's really helpful to start the game as mortal characters and have them play for most of a session that way. This lets them get a handle on the basics of the rules, as all the charms you get and use after exalting are basically ways to "cheat" the underlying system.

This is true, and starting as mortals actually seems like a pretty good way to get used to things. Do a session or two as pure mortals to get used to the basic mechanics. Then Exalt and add in Excellencies and Anima effects, to get used to the flow of motes. After a session or so, throw in maybe 5-6 Charms, maybe just a few in your Supernal skill. Only then add the rest of the ~10 starting Charms. It's a lot to keep track of-- I'm objectively good at mechanics, and even I needed to make some flowcharts for combat/social stuff with notes about when I could use certain Charms.

[Jeivar]

Can someone give me some general advice on what Solar Exalted players are expected to get up to?

[lightningcat]

Can someone give me some general advice on what Solar Exalted players are expected to get up to?

They are heroes out of myth and legend, similar to Beowulf, Hercules, or the Monkey King (althouh he is more of a lunar). They fight epic monsters, conquer kingdoms, and get into insane amounts of trouble. Final Fantasy games are also a source of plot ideas, especially side quests.

[Jeivar]

They are heroes out of myth and legend, similar to Beowulf, Hercules, or the Monkey King (althouh he is more of a lunar). They fight epic monsters, conquer kingdoms, and get into insane amounts of trouble. Final Fantasy games are also a source of plot ideas, especially side quests.

I mean what kind of enemies and situations are appropriate for beginner characters.

[jindra34]

I mean what kind of enemies and situations are appropriate for beginner characters.

Your in a kingdom where everyone wants you dead if they find out your a Solar: Survive, and still do your job of making the world a better place.

[houlio]

I mean what kind of enemies and situations are appropriate for beginner characters.

This is the difficult part. A combat focused dawn caste will have little trouble making mincemeat of most of the quick characters, while a twilight caste sorcerer will struggle more to survive or contribute to those kinds of fights. Alternatively, your presence focused zenith is going to be in control of most social situations while dawn mcfacepunch isn’t going to be able to do so much talking (although this has been improved somewhat in 3rd).

This why I highly recommend starting out as mortals so you can get the chance to understand how the systems work, because appropriate enemies will entirely depend on you and your group. Jumping straight in to a fight with charms and artifacts will generally result in one side curbstomping the other if you don’t all know what is happening. Exalted will tell you all the time to go big, but there’s nothing wrong with starting out small. A pretty usual escalation of threats for me in exalted is to go from normal/mundane (especially if it’s your first time) to dragonblooded / a Wyld Hunt to other celestial or solar exalts. Exalted is very much a game where you should simply throw a problem at the players and then let them sort it out.

[Jeivar]

What about dealing with rogue gods? I'm looking through the pdf for the base book, and there's a lot of mention of gods forcing prayer and sacrifices from humans. Is punching them into submission part of the Solar workload?

This is the difficult part. A combat focused dawn caste will have little trouble making mincemeat of most of the quick characters, while a twilight caste sorcerer will struggle more to survive or contribute to those kinds of fights. Alternatively, your presence focused zenith is going to be in control of most social situations while dawn mcfacepunch isn’t going to be able to do so much talking (although this has been improved somewhat in 3rd).

Right. I'll have to talk to the players about what kind of game we'll have.

Your in a kingdom where everyone wants you dead if they find out your a Solar: Survive, and still do your job of making the world a better place.

Do ST's traditionally heavily work with the Anathema business? As in, the players can't really reveal themselves anywhere civilised?

[jindra34]

Do ST's traditionally heavily work with the Anathema business? As in, the players can't really reveal themselves anywhere civilised?

It depends on the area and how much 'good' they've done for the area. Its best (IMHO) used as a lingering threat to prevent them from being to open to early into an arc. But it should always be something that is hanging over the players heads, because rumors will eventually get out, attention will be drawn and things will get very messy IF they don't watch themselves.

[houlio]

What about dealing with rogue gods? I'm looking through the pdf for the base book, and there's a lot of mention of gods forcing prayer and sacrifices from humans. Is punching them into submission part of the Solar workload?

That entirely is appropriate. Usually, I would group gods into the same tier as dealing with dragon-blooded, but gods can vary wildly in power. My reasoning is that you will have a group of solars working against a god, while when facing against DB's, you will be facing against a group. You also should remember that despite the power of the melee charm tree, it's also entirely valid to talk (or sing/dance/compose poetry) your enemies into submission in Exalted.

Do ST's traditionally heavily work with the Anathema business? As in, the players can't really reveal themselves anywhere civilised?

It's up to your call. Some places, like Chiaroscuro or Lookshy can pretty easily involve Anathema, but usually only if the players submit to local authorities. The power and influence of the Immaculate Order, the All Seeing Eye (the Realm's intelligence service), and Wyld Hunts are largely up to Storyteller fiat. That said, having to deal with a Wyld Hunt seems to be considered a pretty normal moment in games involving Solars. Whether that Wyld Hunt takes the shape of 3 Immaculate Monks, an airship filled with elite troops led by several experienced DB's and a Sidereal assassin, or an entire legion is up to you (and should probably fit the game you want to play).

One of the assumptions about a Solar game is that the mere presence of the PCs will upset the setting. Narratively, a Solar game is about trying to make room for yourself in a world already busting at the seams (and then what happens to the stuff you push out of the way).

[Andreaz]

What about dealing with rogue gods? I'm looking through the pdf for the base book, and there's a lot of mention of gods forcing prayer and sacrifices from humans. Is punching them into submission part of the Solar workload?

Very much so. Part and parcel of the life of the Exalted is that by winning the world over from its creators, the gods gave them the full authority and right to rule creation. Gods have their place in there, and the exalted have the full authority to put them in their place.

Do ST's traditionally heavily work with the Anathema business? As in, the players can't really reveal themselves anywhere civilised?

Very much so as well! Winning people over so you can reveal yourself is a big thing, and expect most civilizations to buy into the immaculate faith.

Of course, glowing iconic in the middle of a far off village no one even seems to want to think about is not going to be as troublesome as doing so in the center of a major city near the threshold. Wyld Hunts are terrifying gatherings of power against the anathema, and even in a far off major city you can still expect one to gather within days of a bonfire reveal. Within weeks you have a small army.

[Vhaidara]

I figure the best way to describe solar power levels is with an example from a game

The game I'm in, we've got a circle of 4 Solars (missing a Zenith) and a Fire Aspect Dragonblood (using a homebrew DB). The DB was a prominent figure in the city, and the rest of us have been rising to prominence in defending the city from barbarian hordes.

Now, for a little perspective on Solar power levels. My Essence 1 Brawl Supernal Dawn, when an army was attacking, punched an elephant across the battlefield, through multiple battlegroups, and into another elephant. This is a character who is essentially fresh out of chargen (Heaven Thunder Hammer is a HELL of a drug). Our Eclipse was busy brainwashing the city's government, our Night Caste was robbing the current ruler of the city blind, and our Twilight was crapping out the highest quality everything in for a few hundred miles. Meanwhile the DB has the political clout to keep us all from getting massacred by the Wyld Hunt (and had to use it enough that his Tie of Awe towards solars has shifted to one of Anxiety, because holy crap these people are INSANE)

Then we went to investigate a first age vault we'd heard rumors about, hoping to get some bigger guns for fighting the barbarian leader. There we encountered 2 people who turned out to be Infernals (homebrew had been done by the ST). This is where we learned what can kill a solar. Namely being shot through the chest with an arrow of anima the size of a semi truck. And thus died my first Exalted character.

Fast forward several sessions and we find out why this barbarian leader has been such a serious pita is because he's actually a freaking deathlord with a full circle of Abyssals. Well, almost a full circle, his Daybreak has bailed on him and is where we got this info. Currently we're squaring off against his army. In 5 weeks I (playing a new, more defensive Dawn) turned about 400 peasant conscripts into the most dangerous fighting force in the region, while the Twilight gave them the best mortal gear they can carry. The Eclipse has summoned up a small army of varied demons, while the DB has done the same with elementals (which I then trained in my spare week).The Night snuck into the enemy camp and got a full copy of their battle plans. The Eclipse also, with the help of the Daybreak, has (possibly) convinced the enemy Day to sit the fight out.

Next session is tomorrow, and I know I plan on putting a sword through the deathlord's heart. Or, from everything I've been told, I'm going to get bitchslapped so hard it's going to kill my next 6 characters. But I'm going to do it anyways. Because Solars are ****ing insane.

For some anime examples, frankly a lot of protagonists could be solars, ut the most obvious is Goku. Goku is the quintessential Dawn (with spec into sorcery for his big charge up attacks). Down to getting a giant glowing golden aura when he powers up.

EDIT: Anyone who's interested in the game is welcome on the Exalted 3e discord, btw. Good place to find games/homebrew as well as generally discuss the game

[Jeivar]

So, I'm gradually working my way through the book but finding nothing about God-Blooded other than occasion mentions of the name. They are the mortal-ish offspring of Gods, Exalted and the like, correct? Sort of like Hercules? What are the basics on these folks and their abilities?

[Vhaidara]

So, the core book didn't really give a lot of play details for anything but Solars. There's some sample characters in the back for the other exalts, and some information has been leaked for the upcoming (as in should be the next month or so) Dragonblood), but they don't really have details on statting for the godblooded. As far as i know, they are specifically the mortal offspring of Gods, not exalts (at the very least it's not terrestrial exalts, since Dragonblood have family based dynasties). So most information people would have now would come form first and second editions (I didn't play then so i don't really know).

[Lord Raziere]

So, I'm gradually working my way through the book but finding nothing about God-Blooded other than occasion mentions of the name. They are the mortal-ish offspring of Gods, Exalted and the like, correct? Sort of like Hercules? What are the basics on these folks and their abilities?

the basics on these folk themselves is that they're offspring of the gods and their abilities mostly consist of potentially different cosmetic appearance, being potentially privileged enough to be raised by a god, and being either objects of worship in the Threshold or objects of shame and disapproval on the Blessed Isle because coupling with the gods is a no-no in the Immaculate philosophy. maybe if they're super-ultra-mega-lucky they get some sort random supernatural power out of it that will be surpassed effortlessly by the next Exalt they see.

basically they're privileged divine brats. like the son of a noble, except literal son of a god:
"I'm the son of the river god, be nice to me or I tell father and he will flood your soldamn village."

[HighPriest]

basically they're privileged divine brats. like the son of a noble, except literal son of a god:
"I'm the son of the river god, be nice to me or I tell father and he will flood your soldamn village."

While that's true for some, I'd argue that for every one that has that much clout with their divine parent, there are probably at least three or four times as many whose parent either doesn't care or doesn't know that they exist.

Also, it's worth noting that while "god-blooded" may be the generic term that you'll see referenced, they aren't the only type of "x-blooded" out there. There are also fey-blooded, demon-blooded, ghost-blooded, and so forth. Pretty much anything supernatural seems to be able to create unfortunate mostly-mortal spawnlings.

Note that all of the above is from 2E and 1E, which aren't currently in favor with 3E people. So this might not end up being true in the new line.

[Lord Raziere]

While that's true for some, I'd argue that for every one that has that much clout with their divine parent, there are probably at least three or four times as many whose parent either doesn't care or doesn't know that they exist.

Also, it's worth noting that while "god-blooded" may be the generic term that you'll see referenced, they aren't the only type of "x-blooded" out there. There are also fey-blooded, demon-blooded, ghost-blooded, and so forth. Pretty much anything supernatural seems to be able to create unfortunate mostly-mortal spawnlings.

Note that all of the above is from 2E and 1E, which aren't currently in favor with 3E people. So this might not end up being true in the new line.

Doesn't work like that.

Exalted fans and designers are all about Exalts being special above everyone else. God-blooded/whatever-blooded being privileged spoiled brats or outcasts or orphans whose supernatural heritage means little to jack-squat compared to your average Dragon-Blooded who are both more powerful and consistent about being spoiled brats about it is EXACTLY what they've always been about. Heck, people were HAPPY when half-castes got written out, so that the specialness of Exalts wasn't being diluted anymore.

and the writers are even worse about that, because they're the ones who outright designed Exigents, who are basically like god-blooded but: better and Exalts and basically have more unique, interesting and varied ways to Exalt then just being born. Exalted is all about fandom splat pecking order: Solars are on top, all other Exalts are middle, and mortals are bottom no matter whose parents you are. Doesn't matter if your a farm boy or the son of Malfeas himself, Exaltation is where its at and that is where it will stay.

God-blooded are so far down that totem pole, its unlikely you'll ever get more than a cursory "just play a mortal with some merits" because thats what you do to play God-blooded. I'm still waiting on that Dragon-Blooded book. you know that is what, taking them years to put out just like their core book? we'll be lucky to get to Sidereals at this rate bub. god-blooded? pfh. unimportant, minor and a waste of time compared to the important stuff they still haven't gotten out. when four of your five core splats are still in glacial development after years with no signs of getting out, you got problems, and this is after the fandom basically broke into three when the core book actually came out way after it was promised. I'm just letting you know now how screwed up the situation is to be kind so that you don't waste your time holding your breath. I wouldn't even use the 3e Exalted system to play Exalted these days, because its so clearly not a complete game, that will so clearly never be finished in time for me to enjoy any of it.

I mean sure, Arms of the Chosen came out recently, and I guess thats good, but thats after how long by now? and they still don't have Dragon-Blooded out. Freaking sad really.

[Braininthejar2]

For some anime examples, frankly a lot of protagonists could be solars, ut the most obvious is Goku. Goku is the quintessential Dawn (with spec into sorcery for his big charge up attacks). Down to getting a giant glowing golden aura when he powers up.

I've been told that One Piece comes very close, both in terms of power levels, and the themes involved.

[Morty]

Well, this thread had managed to last a while before Raziere's personal crusade against 3E Exalted entered it. To provide some actual information:

So, I'm gradually working my way through the book but finding nothing about God-Blooded other than occasion mentions of the name. They are the mortal-ish offspring of Gods, Exalted and the like, correct? Sort of like Hercules? What are the basics on these folks and their abilities?

God-Blooded are as varied as gods themselves. We don't have rules for them in 3E yet, but they're supposed to range from mostly-mortal people with some minor supernatural traits, to those with actual Charms and such. I think most of them don't have full-blown Charms, though. So, yes. Mortal offspring of gods, though I don't think it needs to be literal offspring. You don't need a god pulling a Zeus and impregnating a mortal woman, or vice versa.

Either way, they're not as powerful as Exalted, so Hercules probably wouldn't be a God-Blooded in Exalted. Some dedicated rules are in the pipeline somewhere, but right now you could make one with some Supernatural merits and maybe a Spirit Charm or two.

[Lord Raziere]

Well, this thread had managed to last a while before Raziere's personal crusade against 3E Exalted entered it. To provide some actual information:

HA!

thats funny. its not really crusade though. this is the first time I've thought about it in like how long? I don't even remember because the books take THAT long to come out. the only system in it I don't want anything to do with is the crafting system and I don't see any problem with the fluff. been too busy to think about Exalted because I'm actually enjoying myself with things that have actual content and update on time. Its funny to me, because why would I crusade against something so anemically slow?

like they have a mostly good system, they got the foundation covered, if they were faster with how they put out books, and y'know got all the basics of the setting out so that I can have fun with it, I'd be happy but given how they still haven't even accomplished Dragon-Blooded....I'm just being honest dude. its a mostly good system but its like, not even complete after so long. Honestly, I'd rather "crusade" against something like orcs being evil in more generic fantasy. That still needs some hardcore crusadin' right there.

Call me when Dragon-Blooded comes out and I'll see if there is anything worth crusading against, but until then, I'm just here to let people know the facts.

[Braininthejar2]

While we have some people versed in exalted 3rd ed here:

What happens if an archer charm designed for hitting multiple targets is employed against a battle group? Or is it not a legal target?

[Morty]

I wouldn't say I'm "versed", but I'm pretty sure battle groups count as single targets for the purposes of multi-attack Charms. Nothing says they don't, while some attacks do have extra effect against battle groups, like spells. Don't quote me on that, though.

[houlio]

While we have some people versed in exalted 3rd ed here:

What happens if an archer charm designed for hitting multiple targets is employed against a battle group? Or is it not a legal target?

I’m also not really that versed, but you could also look at the spell obsidian butterflies or whatever it’s called. If I remember right, it essentially just does some extra damage to battle groups, which seems appropriate for your case. Perhaps add the caveat that the charm can’t target anybody else.

[SaurOps]

It's up to your call. Some places, like Chiaroscuro or Lookshy can pretty easily involve Anathema, but usually only if the players submit to local authorities. The power and influence of the Immaculate Order, the All Seeing Eye (the Realm's intelligence service), and Wyld Hunts are largely up to Storyteller fiat. That said, having to deal with a Wyld Hunt seems to be considered a pretty normal moment in games involving Solars. Whether that Wyld Hunt takes the shape of 3 Immaculate Monks, an airship filled with elite troops led by several experienced DB's and a Sidereal assassin, or an entire legion is up to you (and should probably fit the game you want to play).

One of the assumptions about a Solar game is that the mere presence of the PCs will upset the setting. Narratively, a Solar game is about trying to make room for yourself in a world already busting at the seams (and then what happens to the stuff you push out of the way).

Solars, Lunars, and Abyssals are not welcome in Lookshy. They still follow the Immaculate Philosophy over there even if it isn't the Immaculate Order and don't preach about it, and that means that if one of those types of Exalted wanders up to the Seventh Legion's stomping grounds, they'll end up being killed deader than dead unless they're in disguise and very circumspect.

[houlio]

Solars, Lunars, and Abyssals are not welcome in Lookshy. They still follow the Immaculate Philosophy over there even if it isn't the Immaculate Order and don't preach about it, and that means that if one of those types of Exalted wanders up to the Seventh Legion's stomping grounds, they'll end up being killed deader than dead unless they're in disguise and very circumspect.

My understanding is that the Immaculate Faith is basically universal across Creation, minus a few groups like the Lintha. That doesn't mean that everyone is fanatical about it (especially considering the way that religion and cosmology work in Exalted). I could easily see Lookshy publicly repudiating Anathema while making discreet and deniable backroom deals with them to get leg a up against the Realm, but I will entirely admit that this might contradict canon (to which I would also add "burn down whatever established canon there is and do whatever you want with the game").

[jindra34]

My understanding is that the Immaculate Faith is basically universal across Creation, minus a few groups like the Lintha. That doesn't mean that everyone is fanatical about it (especially considering the way that religion and cosmology work in Exalted). I could easily see Lookshy publicly repudiating Anathema while making discreet and deniable backroom deals with them to get leg a up against the Realm, but I will entirely admit that this might contradict canon (to which I would also add "burn down whatever established canon there is and do whatever you want with the game").

Nope that is about entirely how Lookshy does it in canon. Provided your discreet enough about whatever you are that they can deny knowing you were Anathema they won't look to hard. Go flaring your banner all up and down the street? Same result as anywhere else. Keep it low key so that people could reasonably claim your just an unusually skilled god-blooded? They won't look too hard.

[Morty]

I wouldn't say the Immaculate Faith is universal. The Realm enforces it within its sphere of influence, but parts of the Threshold outside its control won't necessarily subscribe to it. Especially those ruled by Lunars.