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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Quote Originally Posted by t209 View Post
    Well, at least the one with investigating nightmare outbreaks with an Orc security officer, an Orc shaman, dwarven hacker, an undead Samurai, and a Russian techie is way better.
    That one was good, but personally I preferred the one about uncovering conspiracies with an orc sniper, a cybered-up human, a human decker, and a punk rock shaman. And I think there was a dog too?
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    I watched it. I liked it.

    I think they missed the boat though. It would have done better as one of those short series that have been being put out lately.
    Maybe a 3 or 4 part series.

    I kept getting taken out of the movie with the mentions of the Dark lord and stuff. I really liked how they treated this as a world that had a history. Yet, without something shown of that history, it felt like these races were just thrown together ala shadowrun.

    ON the subject of race relations and political aspects of the meta movie.

    Personally, I didn't mind it. IN our world heavy handed soap box movies are pretty boring. I mean, in the end we are all human, so getting so preachy doesn't impress me. However, in this world, there are actual difference between the many different species. So it doesn't matter to much to me. I was able to tune it out.

    I didn't care about the fairy dying, because in a lot of lore. There are so many different kind of fairies. That have a varying level of everything. So this fairy could have been one of the many inconsequential ones.

    So, I think I would give this one a 3 out of 5. Could have been higher if it was given more backstory.. Was different enough with the dispite the use of so many standard cop movie tropes, that it raised it up from 2.

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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    Wait they did a Shadowrun movie?
    Actually entire plot of Shadowrun: Hong Kong.
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    I liked this movie, though it had its flaws.

    Nick is kind of irritating. All the other orcs seem like regular people that have integrated into society in one way or another. Nick seems strangely like a fish out of water, despite the fact that he is said to have been raised among humans. He almost seems Vulcan-like in his inability to grasp normal social and linguistic cues.

    Ward I liked. He was a "good" guy in the normal guy sort of way. The way that many people might actually be. You're a good person, but when the pressure is being put on and your back is actually to the wall, you might make some choices that go against your principles. But even then, there's a line you won't cross. It was a nice contrast with Nick's more story-like goodness.

    The plot was simple, but was kept interesting by keeping them on the run and with several factions after them. Classic tropes, and they were done well here.

    The "political" stuff in this movie seems to be a thing at first, but as the plot progresses it fades away into the background.

    I'm interested in the world they were crafting, and I think the movie suffers a tad by not going into it's history further. Or maybe I missed a couple of things but... it's strange that the Dark Lord appears to be elven, and will be brought back by elves, and the elves still "run" the world. Meanwhile, the orcs sided with the Dark Lord, but an orc defeated him, but the orcs are a second class even to this day over it. Was this explained or did I misunderstand something?
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    It was pretty meh. Bland, predictable, not terribly interesting and walking cliches rather than characters. It doesn't help that I don't like Will Smith at all (is he a bad actor or is it just that everyone wants him to play basically the same character in everything?).
    It could have been something decent but was a waste of time.

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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post
    I

    I'm interested in the world they were crafting, and I think the movie suffers a tad by not going into it's history further. Or maybe I missed a couple of things but... it's strange that the Dark Lord appears to be elven, and will be brought back by elves, and the elves still "run" the world. Meanwhile, the orcs sided with the Dark Lord, but an orc defeated him, but the orcs are a second class even to this day over it. Was this explained or did I misunderstand something?
    No that is essentially much how it happened, but Orcs are ugly and easy to blame and Elves are pretty and have a higher rate of brights giving them an easier time getting people to forget the past and giving them greater political clout to the point they pretty much rule the world. Although if Lizard People really are one of the races in the setting I imagine they are the ones properly running the politics.
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    The feel of the movie is closest to Season 4 of Person of Interest, with Orcs and Magic instead of a giant Machine. A police procedural with Something Extra.

    Bright could be the best video game movie ever made... if one presumes that they based it off of the Shadowrun game from 2007, the cross platform FPS that was largely ignored due to the popularity of Halo 3. That one specifically, because it was basically hated by everyone who ever played the Shadowrun tabletop RPG (or even the previous, and following video games), because it eschewed the hacking and spiritual aspects of the IP. The tree over the pool that Tikka wants to go to is a spitting image of the Tree of Life from the game. The bald male elf looks identical to one of the available PCs. And just like the game, if you were looking for a substantive story, you were left in want - the game didn't have a campaign mode either.

    Thankfully, I've heard that a sequel was greenlit, so hopefully there's more they can show in this world.

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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    Bright could be the best video game movie ever made... if one presumes that they based it off of the Shadowrun game from 2007
    A video game everyone hated that was missing substantive story and spiritual aspects?

    You have awfully low standards for best video game movie.

    Yet you are clearly skilled in the art of condemning with faint praising.
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    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    A video game everyone hated that was missing substantive story and spiritual aspects?

    You have awfully low standards for best video game movie.

    Yet you are clearly skilled in the art of condemning with faint praising.
    To be fair, all of the other video game movies have been even more horrible... so it's not really a high bar. And AFAIK, they haven't explicitly stated it is based on the Shadowrun IP, which is probably wise, as it a)isn't set in the future, therefore b) has no cyberpunk elements. If someone were to say that Bright is to Shadowrun as The Matrix is to the Ghost in the Shell, then I'd agree.

    It's not a bad movie. I really enjoyed it.

    But if they shoehorned in the rest of the Shadowrun IP 'requirements', the movie would have been HORRIBLE. An introduction of a tiny piece of a universe hasn't been the main way to start a movie franchise. However... if Bright is the "Iron Man" slot for a Shadowrun Cinematic Universe, I'm excited. It's certainly starting off better than the DCCU.

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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    To be fair, all of the other video game movies have been even more horrible... so it's not really a high bar.
    Let me just interrupt to put in a good word for the first 'Silent Hill' movie, which I always liked as a decent B movie
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post
    Nick is kind of irritating. All the other orcs seem like regular people that have integrated into society in one way or another. Nick seems strangely like a fish out of water, despite the fact that he is said to have been raised among humans. He almost seems Vulcan-like in his inability to grasp normal social and linguistic cues.

    Ward I liked. He was a "good" guy in the normal guy sort of way.
    I warmed to Ward a later on, but dear Gods is he an ******* in the first few minutes. I thought Nick was charming enough in a 'well-meaning over-eager rookie' kind of way.

    I don't think I'm quite familiar enough with Cop Movies to spot all the derivative elements (I should probably go watch Training Day) so I don't think that bothered me more than generic Hero's Journey plotlines bother me in general. I will say I was kind of baffled by what was going on in the climactic fight scene, though. Were they implying that the Dark Lord was possessing the elven girl, or something similar? Was that ever really explained?

    The political elements... I didn't quite know what to make of that, to be honest- e.g, it's fine for fairies to be non-sentient chattering pests, but was it either necessary or helpful to make them so human-shaped? I was personally torn between 'cringe-inducingly problematic' and 'hilariously brazen', so I wouldn't blame people for going either way.
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    The trailer that chooses to focus on the scene (apparently played for laughs) that "fairy lives don't matter" puts a bad taste in my mouth. Only partly because of any political implication, Mostly because they choose to open the movie with a joke about killing a possibly sentient being using a bug zapper and fly swatter presumably because its annoying like an insect.

    Read the reviews of the movie, I read that it double downs on stereotyping orcs (with recognizable racial stereotypes for people of color) simultaneously with its message of diversity and conclusion. The movie implies the orcs themselves are responsible for their condition.

    I'm not sure if I can stomach this movie.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    I suspect the disconnect here is largely that the critics watch more movies than your average person. The cliched and repetitive elements of Bright are more evident.
    That, and the difference in taste. People don't generally share the same value parameters for art that critics tend to have. Taste is subjective in the end. That's what Ratatouille was trying to teach us all
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    I warmed to Ward a later on, but dear Gods is he an ******* in the first few minutes. I thought Nick was charming enough in a 'well-meaning over-eager rookie' kind of way.
    Yeah, he's a little rough at first. Someone else mentioned not liking Will Smith, and I'm the same way. I typically find him annoying. But I feel like it worked in this movie. His character has no loyalty to Nick at first, and is just trying to free himself of the problems inherent in associating with Nick. Which I think is understandable. It sets up Ward as closer to a regular person. He's got his own problems, and he doesn't feel the need to throw himself on the cross just because Nick wants to swim against the current. I think that's pretty humanizing, and it begs the question "how far will I've got my own problems carry you?" And I really enjoy that setup because I think it serves to enhance the heroism that comes later
    I don't think I'm quite familiar enough with Cop Movies to spot all the derivative elements (I should probably go watch Training Day) so I don't think that bothered me more than generic Hero's Journey plotlines bother me in general.
    I don't think any of these were done poorly in the movie. I highly recommend you go see Training Day. Excellent movie.
    I will say I was kind of baffled by what was going on in the climactic fight scene, though. Were they implying that the Dark Lord was possessing the elven girl, or something similar? Was that ever really explained?
    I took it as fatigue or damage from being inexperienced, but it's a good question. The fact that we don't really know what was happening to her or where she went leaves me thinking there'll be a sequel. Which is cool.
    The political elements... I didn't quite know what to make of that, to be honest- e.g, it's fine for fairies to be non-sentient chattering pests, but was it either necessary or helpful to make them so human-shaped? I was personally torn between 'cringe-inducingly problematic' and 'hilariously brazen', so I wouldn't blame people for going either way.
    They should have gone further to make the fairy appear less human, because that scene was brutal.

    The rest of it... eh, abuse of power by authority is nothing new. Corrupt PD, especially in LA, is nothing new. Stories about income and societal inequalities is nothing new. I don't think the movie was trying to comment on anything to be honest. The discrepancies are due to a fight with a dark lord centuries ago, so I'm not sure where you can really start drawing parallels with the real world.
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    [QUOTE=Lacuna Caster;22699929] I will say I was kind of baffled by what was going on in the climactic fight scene, though. Were they implying that the Dark Lord was possessing the elven girl, or something similar? Was that ever really explained?
    QUOTE]

    It looked a whole lot like the black lines covering her mimicked the wounds Nick had
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    prior to her resurrection of him. Including a wound to the chest, where he had been shot.

    I don't know if that was supposed to show that magic has an impact on the wielder, or if she did it wrong, or something else was going on. However, it wasn't explained AFAIK, so it may have just been that she got a case of the McGuffin Flu for all we know.

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse
    Let me just interrupt to put in a good word for the first 'Silent Hill' movie, which I always liked as a decent B movie
    I don't know if I ever saw that one, but it certainly has a B movie rating - it's also in the 30% Rotten Tomatoes club.

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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    We don’t live in a world where people are as explicitly racist as in Bright. By establishing the status quo for fantasy races in an incredibly regressive world the movie does little to forward its moral. Instead it uses allegories that are
    What world do you live in? Because in mine, we most certainly do. Hell, I can hear racist crap just taking my morning commute.

    That said, the message was pretty anvilicious. Even if you agree with the message, the only reactions I ever see to such messages are ignorance, getting the message and disagreeing, or getting the message and agreeing.

    Having a movie about these topics is really just for people who already agree to feel good about agreeing, rather than having any possibility of promoting change.
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post
    The rest of it... eh, abuse of power by authority is nothing new. Corrupt PD, especially in LA, is nothing new. Stories about income and societal inequalities is nothing new. I don't think the movie was trying to comment on anything to be honest. The discrepancies are due to a fight with a dark lord centuries ago, so I'm not sure where you can really start drawing parallels with the real world.
    Its one thing if you want to say that the movie meant nothing to you about anything political, but the movie is objectively making politically and racially charged statements.

    The movie is making explict statements with political language and using overt political imagery. There is a gratiutious scene where a hapless orc is getting beaten by the LAPD with their sticks and Will Smith challenges his partners loyalty. It does nothing to advance the plot but it helps establish how horrible the cops are. But, I don't suppose there's any significance to the story taking place in "LA" or that the cops are the "LAPD" since this is a fictional world.

    Orcs are coded and mapped right into the slot for black people. The brutality and language shown on screen is lifted right from historical events and contemporary news and political movements. These events are still fresh and the political discourse its stealing its language and scenes from is going on now.

    The movie-makers intentionally appropriated the language and imagery of contemporary politics and, at the very least, wanted the movie to appear contemporary and relevant. It does so in a very graphically violent manner with shocking imagery.

    There is a question of what all the racism and racially motivated violence in the movie means, but there is no question it means something.
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Orcs are coded and mapped right into the slot for black people.

    So you are in effect.. you are saying that black people joined sides with some evil overlord thousands of years of years ago. Thus they deserve all the nasty things that happen to them?

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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    Let me just interrupt to put in a good word for the first 'Silent Hill' movie, which I always liked as a decent B movie
    I will agree with this. The first 5 minutes of the second are astounding too, but the movie falls apart pretty quickly and isn't nearly as good as the first. Of course, I like video game movies and horror in general. Even when, and sometimes especially when they are bad.

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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    I felt like the racism was an attempt to make a bit more realistic. Humans hate other Humans for being different so why wouldn't it exist in a world with other intelligent species?

    I don't think it was trying to make a grandiose statement about institutional racism, just borrowing from real world examples.

    I feel it was a bit clunky and confusing with so little background information. Mexicans still get blamed for the Alamo? Human Mexicans? Are Humans the only race with Ethnic groups like 99% of Fantasy? Are there Mexican Elves or are all Elves just Elves?

    Still since I am a fan of the genre I'm used to not fretting over this. LotR wasn't about WW2, orcs weren't Nazis. I think it is misguided to assume deeper messages in Fantasy, that's more of a Sci-fi thing.
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    There's no question that the movie is pretty directly equating orcs and blacks, and elves with the beverley hills crowd, etc. I'm not sure the movie is saying that Orcs are responsible for their own position, as such. The movie does suggest there are intrinsic differences between species when it comes to athletic performance, tracking, or magical ability, and I think there's some ground for saying that, ah, Orc culture could stand improvement in various respects. But Ward says that Orcs aren't statistically dumber than average, so whether that's an adequate explanation for the economic divide in their society, or the brutality of law enforcement, is kinda left ambiguous.

    Also, it's actually fairly careful about not presenting any particular race as more pronouncedly evil than the others. Even aside from the protagonists, most of the elves are inferni, and most of the humans are gangsters or murdering cops. I don't think the good/bad ratio for Orcs on-screen is markedly higher than average.
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    Its one thing if you want to say that the movie meant nothing to you about anything political, but the movie is objectively making politically and racially charged statements.
    By all means, please share what these statements and comments are...
    The movie is making explict statements with political language and using overt political imagery.
    What are the statements that it is making? I'm not being funny here. I walked away from this movie without feeling like it was trying to tell me something about the real world. That seems opposite to your experience. What is it telling you?
    There is a gratiutious scene where a hapless orc is getting beaten by the LAPD with their sticks and Will Smith challenges his partners loyalty. It does nothing to advance the plot but it helps establish how horrible the cops are.
    There are plenty of scenes establishing how awful the cops are, including Internal Affairs. And in much more explicit ways. The movie doesn't show you what occurred before the beat down, so to pick this scene as the scene to establish how bad cops are is just strange.

    Given that the orcs are seen lifting cars with ease, and getting rammed by vehicles into walls without so much as a scratch, the use of force required by police officers may be different than in the real world. I'm not seeing the parallels that you're seeing.

    But all that aside, what is this scene telling you? What "explicit statement" are you getting out of this scene?
    But, I don't suppose there's any significance to the story taking place in "LA" or that the cops are the "LAPD" since this is a fictional world.
    Given that corruption and brutality are widespread in the real United States, sure. But what does that mean to you then? For me, you could slap any city onto their vest and it wouldn't change the story.
    Orcs are coded and mapped right into the slot for black people.
    Oh, ok. So centuries ago, blacks chose the wrong side of a war against a great evil, like, say Hitler, and they have been paying for that mistake ever since by being relegated to second class citizenry, that they in part are responsible for by clinging to tribal loyalty and eschewing the greater integrated society, to the point that there are no blacks in positions of power, leadership, or even among the police force. Yeah, ok...
    The brutality and language shown on screen is lifted right from historical events and contemporary news and political movements. These events are still fresh and the political discourse its stealing its language and scenes from is going on now.

    The movie-makers intentionally appropriated the language and imagery of contemporary politics and, at the very least, wanted the movie to appear contemporary and relevant. It does so in a very graphically violent manner with shocking imagery.
    Ok, so what is the message again? What's the issue here?
    There is a question of what all the racism and racially motivated violence in the movie means, but there is no question it means something.
    Well what does it mean??
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyberwulf View Post
    Orcs are coded and mapped right into the slot for black people.

    So you are in effect.. you are saying that black people joined sides with some evil overlord thousands of years of years ago. Thus they deserve all the nasty things that happen to them?
    They made sure to separate them by making them bad jumpers/basketball.

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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Kind of makes you wonder what Orcs thinks about chicken, watermelons, and grape dranks.

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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    They probably think they're delicious, like everybody else does.

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    The movie was okay. I enjoyed the world building parts in the first half but the plot itself in the last half was a train wreck. They clearly ran up against a deadline/movie length limit and couldn't put everything they wanted in. Like coherency.
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Watermelon is not delicious...
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post
    Watermelon is not delicious...
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    Anyone who thinks that this movie is racist or in any way a negative portrayal of any ethnicity is just virtue signaling. It's a dumb Buddy Cop movie with magic. Enjoy it for what it is, because I for one, don't like when my make-believe fantasy flick starts to look like a political correctness sermon. Which is why I didn't like The Last Jedi.

    Also, anyone else see the dragon the size of a 747 flying atop the skyline? I wonder what regulations are in place regarding huge, fire-breathing flying reptiles.
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikemical View Post
    Anyone who thinks that this movie is racist or in any way a negative portrayal of any ethnicity is just virtue signaling...
    Mmmm.... no. With very minor differences, it totally is slotting orcs into the same cultural and economic niche as blacks. It's not even remotely subtle or understated about it. I literally can't think what else the movie could do to make it clearer.


    Whether that counts as racist per se depends on what your definition of racism is. I mean, orcs have been cookie-cutter mook antagonists in enough fantasy fiction that you might assume it by default, but... I don't think the film itself depicts the orcs as especially nasty, stupid or otherwise deficient persons. If you take away everyone that just appears as background scenery or within the implied setting, there's at least as many human deplorables. Orcs are slow but strong and have some sensory perks, which isn't objectively superior or inferior. The elves are hyperproficient magic ninja supermodels, but their species is the most ambitiously villainous. It's kind of a wash.

    If the movie is supposed to be a commentary on race, I would guess one reading might be 'race is real, but that's not the end of the world, and differences can actually be complimentary'. Or one could squint and say, 'there are always individual exceptions to the group'. I'm not sure that's a particularly profound statement, or that it provides a particularly satisfactory answer to why the setting is so rife with inequality when it's species are ostensibly equal-ish. But it's not exactly victim-blaming proxy Aryanism.
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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    The movie starts out like it does. Fairly overt imagery and symbolism that bear a passing resemblance to things that happen in the real world.
    It's a fantasy medium. One of the best points in the Fantasy and Sci-Fi genres is its ability to hold up mirrors to our own society. Check. That's what it's doing.

    Is it ham-fisted? Sure is. Does it help move the story along by helping me to associate Fantasy problems to real-world problems without resorting to lengthy dialogue and exposition sequences? Sure does.
    "This not-real thing is kind of similar to the real thing you have in your real world. We don't need to explain it 'cause you already basically know all about it."
    Nailed it.

    What's the message of the movie, then? Are the first 15 minutes representative of the final product?

    End;
    Orcs and Humans could be friends.
    Orcs can be good/trusted cops if you give them a chance. Also, some Humans are bad. Some human cops, are also bad.
    ...Everyone agrees that Elves are A-holes... But there might be a few good ones.

    Got it. How do I apply that Fantasy message to the real world?
    Got it. Simple and effective.

    ...I saw way worse in End of Watch.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2017-12-28 at 12:05 PM.
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  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    That this movie is imitating real world events, makes use of real stereotypes and racial dynamics is obvious, and is mentioned both by the many critics and the few outliers like (Variety) that give this movie positive remarks. If every professional critic sees a message, I’m willing to say there is one there.

    Changing a few characteristics here and there do not remove the obvious sources of inspiration or strip out its meaning. People will naturally make all sorts of inferences about Orcs simply by seeing some of this imagery.

    Also there is a contradiction embedded in the analysis of this movie as cop movie with no racial signfiicance, and then immediately pivoting to contrast it with the noxious political significance of a Star Wars Episode VIII.

    I genuinely cannot see the political significance of Star Wars VIII, and especially not how it resembles a sermon about being PC. Are you referring to its racially diverse cast? If so, how does this movie, which also features a diverse cast, avoid a similar message of PC-ness, especially as you claim there is no special political significance to what Bright does with its racially diverse cast?

    Or does Star Wars TLJ contain politically-racially charged content, aside from diversifying its cast, in contrast to that of Bright, which does not?
    Last edited by Reddish Mage; 2017-12-28 at 12:38 PM.
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    Default Re: Netflix original "Bright"

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    People will naturally make all sorts of inferences about Orcs simply by seeing some of this imagery.
    Yes. That is the point.
    Part of the movie, also happens to involve looking past the imagery... But not in the first 15 minutes.

    But that sort of thing couldn't possibly be applicable to real life. What a terrible movie.
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