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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking (updated)

    Apologies for lateness and misunderstandings. Iíve included more options, and hopefully this is passable. If Iíve missed anything or failed to correct any mistakes, please let me know.

    Inspired by Specterís Social God guide, I have imagined creating the perfect character not just from a class standpoint - no, I shanít sully myself with such thoughts - from the standpoint of accomplishing and being the best at one role. The tank is where I shall begin - and hopefully not end, if this goes well. Now, onto what you came for: How to become the unkillable cockroach.

    Sometimes the tank gets a bad rep for being stupid. Yíknow whatís really stupid?
    Dying.
    Letís learn how not to do that while staring down the wizard, saying ďThis is what happens when you donít have a d6 HD.Ē

    Overview
    The tank is the keystone of any party. Someone needs to get the enemiesí attention, and, most importantly, live to do it again. Just so weíre all on the same page about what the Tankís objectives are, letís list the ways a tank keeps damage off other people.
    Getting yourself to be the target of attacks, rather than squishier, wimpier people like rogues or wizards. Lots of abilities and tactics will cause this.
    Punishing people who donít target you, because standing there and hoping your presence is enough to provoke hostiles usually doesnít work (unless you manage to get your Charisma low enough). Note that not all punishment is damage.
    Actually being able to take punishment, because dying isnít your job; leave that to bards and monks and such. Again, note that not all punishment is damage. This includes HP, AC, and saves.

    Color Rank
    Gold: Mandatory if you expect to call yourself a tank. Terrific
    Sky blue: Phenomenal. Youíll want this
    Blue: This is pretty good
    Black: Not bad, and even helpful in some cases
    Purple: Too situational to be helpful, or just a hair above red
    Red: If you have this, why are you here?

    Equipment
    Any form of ranged weaponry: If youíre far away you are much less likely to be targeted by the enemy. Keep in mind that you should have some sort of ranged weapons to use in the event of a ranged fight. Tanking is cool, but in a firefight you need to have something be useful with. Javelins for Str, choice of bow for Dex.
    Two-handed weapons: This is great for damage. You donít deal damage. On the contrary, some classes promote higher damage die, such as barbarian, and weapons with the reach property are great for a sticky build. You will lose some AC from choosing this (especially at higher levels with magic shields), but depending on the build and class features, using these can be worth your while.
    Dual wielding: Itís melee, but it uses a bonus action. Many tanking abilities use your bonus action. You donít want this.
    Sword and board: This is what youíre looking for. The one weapon loadout that naturally increases your AC! Ideally youíd be using a rapier with a shield. Dexterity is better than Strength for defense, due to saves, AC (for some strategies), and defensive duelist. Season to taste, you wonít miss out on too much with a different weapon. Most of this will assume a Str build, since theyíre more common, although if it works for a Dex build, Iíll say so.

    Stats
    Strength: Not necessary for tanking, but used for most melee builds, which is what youíre doing. Youíll need either this or Dex, because everyone needs to have Athletics or Acrobatics. If youíre doing a Dex build, this still is important because heavy armors have Str requirements. Anyone choosing medium armor, I give you:
    Dexterity: Common save, and you could be using it for AC. If using a Dex build, this is second priority, otherwise, itís just alright.
    Constitution: This is why you came. The only stat that directly increases tank-ability in any build.
    Intelligence: Dump unless youíll be playing eldritch knight.
    Wisdom: Common save. Youíre tanking takes a serious dip when you fail one of these. Get it as something positive and you should be fine.
    Charisma: Honestly you might do better being a mute. Not a common save, and you shouldnít be talking. If you want to multiclass with paladin, put it at 13 and never look back.

    Races
    Hereís what we want to look for in our races, I wonít list it unless it has the following:
    Constitution bonus
    General defensive capabilities


    Hill dwarf: This is great! +2 Con gives you extra HP, you have an ability that gives you extra HP, and dwarven resilience!
    Mountain dwarf: Dwarven resilience and +2 Con is great. You get a bonus to Str as well.
    Stout halfling: This is good for a Dex build, in which case it becomes blue.
    Human: Pass. Not a lot to gain here. Why add something to your dump stats at the cost of useful racial traits?
    Human (variant): +1 to two traits is all you really need, and a feat at level 1 (like, say, Tough) is amazing.
    Dragonborn: +2 Str is okay, and resistance is good. No Con bonus and a weapon with a fast drop off should be keeping you away.
    Rock gnome: +1 to Con is good, but Int is likely going to take a dump. Eldritch knights get a nice blue here.
    Half-elf: You probably donít want Cha. You shouldnít need many skills, either. Paladins get blue.
    Half-orc: You get some nice tanky features and a bonus to Con and Str. Not bad at all
    Aasimar overall (no rating here): So Charisma isnít great unless youíre taking levels in paladin, in which case bump up all scores by 1, but they all get a nova ability thatís nice and some okay features overall.
    Protector: You get a +1 Wis which isnít bad, and flight is situationally very helpful. Unfortunately no really good features keeps this at black.
    Scourge: +1 to Con is good
    Fallen: +1 Str isnít bad either, but still not enough to put it at a higher ranking.
    Goliath: Bonus to Con, an ability that lets you ignore damage, and some Str makes this a very solid choice.
    Lizardfolk: +2 Con is great! Bonus to Wis for saves is nice. The other features are either pretty meh or are going to most likely be rendered useless by other tank things. (Iím looking at you Natural Armor)
    Triton: Bonuses to Str and Con is nice, and thereís Cha if you want it. There are some decent control spells, as well. Not specific to tanks, but not bad to have in the right situations.
    Hobgoblin: +2 bonus to Con is awesome for any race. In addition, you get a feature that helps to hit on an attack, which can mean life or death when your abilities key off of hitting an opponent (which most of yours do). Sky blue for eldritch knights
    Goblin: +1 to Con, but nothing else you want
    Orc: Not a bad ASI, and an ability that helps you close space to enemies faster, which is good
    Duergar: You get the nice dwarf benefits, but it goes downhill from there.
    Air Genasi: +2 Con isnít bad, but none of these features help you much. Blue for Dex builds.
    Earth Genasi: +2 Con with +1 Str isnít bad either. Earth walk can be situationally quite useful, but you donít really need or want stealth for this kind of build.
    Fire Genasi: +2 Con, but Intelligence doesnít help most builds. Resistance to a common damage type and a couple spells bump us up. Sky blue for eldritch knights.
    Water Genasi: +2 Con, and +1 Wis doesnít hurt. Resistance to an uncommon damage type and very situational spellcasting canít bring it up to blue.
    Tortle: No Con increase, which sucks. Str and Wis might be stats youíre using. The kicker here is from Natural Armor. 17 AC is nice, especially at 1st level without carrying anything. Add in your shield and your AC can be pretty high. If youíre playing a class with heavy armor proficiency, this is purple. If youíre playing a barbarian, this is blue.

    Skills
    Athletics: This or acrobatics is pretty much a requirement, and grappling is good. If you went Str take it, if you went Dex, donít.
    Acrobatics: If you went Dex then youíll need this. Not being able to grapple is regretful, but not terrible.
    Sleight of Hand: Not your job
    Stealth: You should want to be found. If some other (wimpier) party member needs to not be seen, be a distraction.
    Intelligence skills: Not your job
    Animal Handling: Not your job, and not very useful anyways
    Insight: Not your job, but not a bad skill to have.
    Medicine: Not your job unless youíre a life cleric, in which case use a spell.
    Perception: Always good to have proficiency here
    Survival: Not necessarily your job, but you might end up there anyways, depending on class.
    Deception: You did dump this right?
    Intimidation: Take it if you can. You could use Str with it, as per the PHB, and being mean to people is part of your job regardless.
    Performance: Now thatís something Iíd like to see. Iím just kidding. Donít take this skill.
    Persuasion: Not your job

    Strategies
    There a lot of different ways to tank. I originally misread the rules, which led me to the idea one way was the best, but with the loss of this one paradigm path, many other strategies surface. Primary strategies talk about classes you take the most levels in, and are more about what youíll be doing with that class. Secondary strategies discusses good class to dip into for some levels that will improve your tanking. All primary classes can be used as secondary classes as well. If you use secondary classes as your primary, you will be able to pass as a tank, but you will be weaker than primary strategies. You could take one primary and two secondaries if you wanted. Mix Ďní Match to your liking.

    Primary Strategies
    Barbarian x/Something x
    Barbarians are widely accepted as the best class for HP tanking due to the effects of Rage. This build focuses on high HP and class features to tank, without much outside help from spells and such. A powerful build, but lacks a high AC without work for it. A Dex build is highly suggested for this. Hill dwarves, variant humans, and air genasi are top picks. You mainly want Dex to add to AC more than the other benefits. Str builds will deal more damage (unless you multiclass with Rogue), however, so if you don't have many other ways to get yourself to be a target, damage is one of them. Keep this decision in mind, either can work. If you choose to play a Str build, Tortle isnít a bad option, despite the lack of Con. Barbarian x/Fighter x is a solid choice due to the fighterís many tanking features at low levels. Remember spellcasting does you no good here. Barbarian is restrictive, but quite powerful.

    Fighter x/Something x
    Fighters are also a five star tank. High AC and good HP keeps them high, and most of their class and subclass features add to the tanking strategies in battles. Str or Dex builds work for fighters. Dex builds can make you a little MAD (itís worse if you go eldritch knight) due to Str requirements for heavy armor, but if you bump down to medium armor you can dump Str and be okay. Str builds will give you higher AC here, but you sacrifice the Dex benefits discussed in Stats. Make a choice and stick to it, although my suggestion would be Dex. Barbarians have a bit on using medium armor if you choose that. Speaking of which, letís chat about Fighter x/Barbarian x. If you are using heavy armor or are an eldritch knight, donít waste your time with this, you wonít get anything out of it. If you chose medium armor because of Dex and happen to not be an eldritch knight, this is a great choice! Eldritch knights theoretically multiclass well with other spellcasters, but the fact is youíll be making yourself even more MAD. The only spellcasting class that wouldnít cause that is wizard, and I talk about them under Class Analysis.

    Paladin x/Something x
    Many of the paladins abilities center around buffing yourself as well as others, allowing you to tank more than the average bear. Smarter enemies might target you because of this, dumber enemies probably wonít understand. The first thing you should know about paladin is that it is more versatile than other tanks. The spells it has allow for battlefield control, healing, damage, etc. Other primary tanks might be better at straight tanking, but paladins can fill a few roles secondarily on top of tanking. Dexadins are a common build, but if you plan on multiclassing in instead of starting, be aware of the prerequisite of 13 Str and Cha.

    Secondary Strategies
    Keep in mind here that for all of these, you must qualify for their score requirements as necessary.

    Something x/Rogue x
    Rogues are a lot better at tanking than they seem. They donít have a big hit die and not as much potential at higher levels, which keeps them as a secondary, but with uncanny dodge, evasion, cunning action, and grappling potential, itís a solid choice. A low level dip will feel fairly weak compared to other tanking options, but once you hit 5-7 youíll be well off. Above that wonít give you anything worth your time. Barbarian x/Rogue x can lead to amazing grappling as well as being able to sneak attack on your own at no cost. Taking levels in rogue can lead to many tanks becoming secondary strikers. Requires a 13 Dex.

    Something x/Cleric x
    Clerics get a lot at low levels, making them a popular dip for most builds. Itís no different here, and even 1 or 2 levels in cleric can make a big impact on playstyle. Itís usually not worth it to go to 6, although depending on your build and party composition it could be fine. The subclass you pick is the real deciding factor of if it is worth it, so Iíd recommend having a subclass in mind when you pick this for your character. Class Analysis is there for that reason. Taking levels in cleric can turn tanks into secondary leaders/buffers. Requires a 13 Wis.

    Something x/Druid x
    Druids are good for this when you take the circle of the moon. Otherwise you shouldnít be taking this class. Circle of the moon druids can essentially gain a large amount of HP at once, and it doesnít harm their normal form. Twice per short rest can add up to be quite a lot. Itís a bit of a one-trick pony for tanking, but itís effective and taking the druid levels gives you plenty of utility. You could even play a barbarian x/druid x and turn into your totem animal. Keep in mind you need not concentrate on animal forms and class features are retained in animal form, so this is a viable and powerful option. Requires a 13 Wis.

    Class analysis

    Color Rank for Class analysis
    Sky blue: A great class choice/Primary class
    Blue: Better than most options/Secondary class
    Black: You should be ignoring this as an option entirely

    Barbarian
    One of our three primary classes. For dips, take 1 if you just want rage, 3 for a path feature, or 6 for a second path feature. There are features in between that are nice, but if youíre planning to use a different class as your primary, you probably shouldnít go past 6, maybe 7 for feral instinct. If you multiclass, hereís what you miss out on, per level.
    20th: Primal Champion for top notch stats and unlimited rages. Pretty solid. Keep in mind that pure barbarian is a good tank, but youíll miss out on features elsewhere.
    19th: Just an ASI
    18th: Being able to take your Str as a total for a Str check. Epic, but doesnít help with tanking.
    17th: Better brutal critical, but we donít care about damage, right? An additional rage, however.
    16th: Just an ASI. And a bonus to Rage Damage. How do we feel about damage, though?
    15th: Persistent Rage
    14th: The capstone for your path
    13th: More brutal critical

    Path of the Berserker: The main draw of this subclass is the damage it provides. Weíre not looking for damage so weíre passing right on by.
    Path of the Totem Warrior: You get resistance to almost all damage types at 3rd level, which is great for survivability. Nothing special again until level 14, however. Great for a short dip into barbarian.
    Path of the Ancestral Guardian: Guardian is right in the name. Right off the bat you punish people for targeting people other than you with a really good ability. After that you get to lessen damage that other people take, further punishing people for targeting others. After an intermission at 10th level you now punish people MORE for attacking anyone other than you. Probably the best straight tank subclass here. Lots of reaction-taking, however, so be wise with that.
    Path of the Storm Herald: The only way to go here for tank is tundra, really. That said, itís not a bad choice. Starts off with you giving yourself and others temp hp with a bonus action. Itís only 2, but it gets higher, and it can happen every turn. Keep in mind, here, that temp hp does NOT stack; your allies will only ever get that amount of temp hp. Resistance to cold isnít awesome, but after another 4 levels you can give your allies resistance to cold as well. At 14 you can freeze people in place, which is a solid ability.
    Path of the Zealot: Choose one of the above 3; this doesnít help towards tanking.
    Battlerager: Damage on grapples is nice, temp hp on a feature youíll be using every turn anyways is nice, closing distance to people is nice. The subclass is a great tank, but many of the features take a hit on utility at higher levels as their values mean less and less. Still a great choice.

    Bard
    Bards are good for smashing. So are you, but the difference is bards die when they get smashed and you donít.

    Cleric
    Note for barbarians that Channel Divinity works just fine in rage.

    Knowledge Domain: Nothing for a tank here
    Life Domain: Check for heavy armor, and healing increases everybodyís survivability.
    Light Domain: Youíre not a blaster
    Nature Domain: Nothing youíre really going to want here.
    Tempest Domain: Has heavy armor, useful domain spells, and an ability that punishes people for attacking you. Punishment for attacking you doesnít sound great, but assuming you have enough to deter people from attacking your buddies, maybe theyíll just run away.
    Trickery Domain: This is a bad idea.
    War Domain: Heavy armor, an extra attack when you havenít got a use for your bonus action, and a bonus to attack rolls. Not too shabby compared to most of the subclasses. The domain spells pretty nice, too.
    Forge Domain: The features just arenít helpful for anyone
    Grave Domain: For tanking, only good at higher levels.
    Arcana Domain: Booming blade/green flame blade and some defensive features are nice. Not as sparkly compared to other blues, but still worth noting. Best with 1 or 2 level dips.

    Druid
    Druids are nice secondary tanks and augment any build well. The only circle you should be picking is the Circle of the Moon to be a tank. You have to take at least 2 levels, taking 4 will get you access to giant octopus (most HP for CR 1), 6 gets you magic weapons in beast form and up to CR 2. Take your pick.

    Fighter
    Your choice of Defense or Protection fighting styles here. Iíd personally go with defense because if youíre meleeing a creature with a friend, chances are youíre flanking, not within 5 feet of each other. Defense applies 100% of always, and you wonít be using reactions to do things. Mileage varies depending on DM and party tactics, however. For dips, either take the 1 level for fighting style and second wind, 2 levels for action surge, 3 for the archetype. You could potentially go to 4 for a sweet ASI/feat. Depending on archetype, you may go to 7 for a feature. Hereís what youíll miss out on if you dip out of fighter:
    20th: The final extra attack. Why are you dealing damage anyways?
    19th: Just an ASI
    18th: The capstone for you martial archetype. You probably shouldnít plan on getting this anyways.
    17th: An extra action surge and an extra indomitable might. Solid buffs
    16th: ASI
    15th: A martial archetype feature. How much this will hurt depends on which subclass you are.
    14th: ASI
    13th: An extra use of Indomitable

    Champion: Never was awesome, and you donít want or need damage anyways.
    Battle Master: Not a lot of tank capability at first glance, but at second glance itís quite good. I wouldnít go for the 7th level here. If you want two more maneuvers take the martial adept feat. For battle maneuvers: Disarming Attack, Evasive Footwork, Goading Attack, and Parry would be my choices when at 3rd, although switching one out for a different one to help party synergy wouldnít be bad. From there, play it by ear, because you could use most of those to help out your friends. This subclass doesnít get as good of tank stuff at higher levels, so if you plan on going a lot of fighter I might look at other subclasses.
    Eldritch Knight: Eldritch knight is a good tank. Shield will be one of your best friends, and that will give you a nearly unrivaled AC, even if you took medium armor. If you took heavy, boy are you in for a treat. There are also some solid buffs that give you or your buds some nice effects. Since they can choose various wizard spells, they also can excel at battlefield control.
    Arcane Archer: Remember how we donít like archery? Yeah, that.
    Cavalier: This is a phenomenal way to go. Unwavering mark gives you some amazing punishment for others attacking anything but you. Put this on top of the Ancestral Guardian punishment and you can seriously lock someone down. Get to 10th so that you reduce speed to 0 on an AoO and you can take a creature out of a fight. Cavaliers are one of the best tanks.
    Samurai: I wouldnít. I came very close to making this blue, but the only ďtankĒ feature it gets is at 3rd, and itís not great.

    Monk
    You wonít really gain anything from this. You just get a lower hit die and some odd utility benefits.

    Paladin
    Our third and final primary class. When dipping into paladin, levels 1-3 are all good choices depending on what youíre looking for from it. Going all the way to 6 or 7 would get you some auras that are amazing no matter what level youíre at. If youíre dipping out, hereís what you miss per level:
    20th: Your capstone feature where you go nova with holy power
    19th: ASI
    18th: An upgrade to your subclass aura. Ancients would like this, but other subclasses wonít feel too bad missing this
    17th: 5th level spell slots unless you multiclassed with a full caster like druid or cleric
    16th: ASI
    15th: A feature from your sacred oath
    14th: Cleansing touch, which is a godsend when you need it
    13th: 4th level slots unless you multiclassed with a full caster

    Oath of Devotion: Sacred weapon is helpful. You donít need the damage, but being able to land more hits makes people notice you, at the least. This is also quite helpful when you have abilities that key off of actually hitting people.
    Oath of the Ancients: A solid subclass, and the aura is unmatched.
    Oath of Vengeance: Advantage on attack rolls can be situationally useful for you, although the kicker here is the 7th level ability, once again. If going to 7th, this is sky blue.
    Oath of Conquest: Frightening people isnít good, but getting a bonus to an attack roll in a clutch moment is. The aura makes this sky blue if you go to 7th.
    Oath of Redemption: You donít talk much, but you do like punishing people for hitting anyone other than you.
    Oath of Crown: Good spells, good channel divinity, amazing 7th level ability. For a lockdown tank this is absolutely godlike.

    Ranger
    Rangers donít have a wimpy hit die, but they donít bring much to the table. Donít go here.

    Rogue
    For dips, youíll want either a low level or high level dip. Taking 2, 5, or 7 is the recommended points. 2 for cunning action, 5 for uncanny dodge, and 7 for evasion. If all you want is expertise with athletics for grappling, take 1 and youíre fine. For subclasses, they donít help you much; you want the main class features, but here they are anyways.

    Thief: Nothing that will help you here
    Assassin: Not really for a tank. If youíre looking to be a secondary striker, this is blue.
    Arcane Trickster: The utility puts this at blue, but know that it doesnít help much in combat.
    Inquisitive: Nothing to gain
    Mastermind: You get an ability that helps support in combat, which makes this a great choice.
    Scout: Skirmisher allows you to move a lot more, letting you be where you want to be in a fight.
    Swashbuckler: You shouldnít be too worried about opportunity attacks, but if your Cha is positive this is nice. You also get a reliable source of Sneak Attack damage.

    Sorcerer
    Smallest hit die and no tanking benefits. Move on.

    Warlock
    Not the smallest hit die, but still no tanking benefits. Iím getting the feeling maybe arcane casters arenít supposed to tank.

    Wizard
    Only thing with potential is taking 2 levels of abjuration wizard for the arcane ward. You have better uses for levels.

    Feats
    (We are once again assuming the normal color rank system)
    Alert: +5 to initiative is cool for anyone, and you canít be snuck up on
    Defensive Duelist: Higher AC often is great if you chose to use a Dex build. Lots of things competing for your reaction is the only thing keeping this from sky blue.
    Durable: Being back at higher health and a Con bonus is solid
    Grappler: Keeping people down without hitting them can be situationally useful. This will vary on its power depending on campaign. If youíre planning on being a grappler anyways, then this is for you.
    Heavy Armor Master: This is quite good at lower levels, but drops off as you go on. If you fight a lot of mooks youíll really want this.
    Lucky: Helpful for everybody. Make people hit you even less with this.
    Mage Slayer: Mileage may vary depending on campaign. Take it if you know youíll need it. Otherwise keep looking.
    Martial Adept: This is nice to expand your options a bit. Taking Parry and Goading Attack would be my choices.
    Medium Armor Master: If you have medium armor because you went Dex, take this. You add more Dex to your AC to bring you on par with heavy armor.
    Mobile: More speed to close distance to people is good.
    Resilient: Youíre probably going Wis if you do this. Canít go wrong there. If youíre taking this, make your Wis an odd number so this evens it out.
    Sentinel: Black if youíre taking cavalier as a primary, but otherwise fantastic for tanking.
    Shield Master: You have a shield, so you can get even more use out of it here.
    Tough: Lots of HP. You want this for sure.
    Last edited by Twizzly513; 2018-01-04 at 05:03 PM.
    Hello, I'm a bard.

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
    Mine was in a small town named Redcrest. The PCs set up a freelance adventuring group named the White Wolves.

    "I'm going to give Bill Clinton some gold pieces. You might become an assassin, too, if you had to pay for your mother's chemo!"

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    Rogues should be Sky Blue

    Expertise in Athletics to Grapple and Shove monsters to keep them in Place
    Disengage or Dash as a Bonus Action, to improve your positioning and reach the targets that matter
    Uncanny Dodge because declaring you take Half Damage from a particularly high damage attack is amazing
    Evasion because one of the biggest threats to your survival is being targeted by a number of high damage save based abilities. Auto taking Half, and conditionally taking None is AMAZING
    Reliable Talent let's make our Grapples and Shoves even more Reliable!
    Blind Senses ... (does this allow you to ignore the penalty/disadvantage of being Blinded/Target being invisible? Let's skip for now)
    Slippery Mind one of the biggest concerns is being locked down with CC spells, this fixes that
    Elusive, Oh you're trying to use Advantage to counter me? Think again

    Rogues have a ton of tools for Tanking
    Completely dismissing them because of some preconceived perception of Rogues is wrong.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
     
    MonkGirl

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    No Tortle? No battlerager? Oath of the Crown?
    Last edited by Naanomi; 2017-12-26 at 05:57 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Mjolnirbear's Avatar

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    Also Ancients paladin doesn't even rate blue? No other class will protect your allies from spells like that level 7 aura.

  5. - Top - End - #5

    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    This is the best tanker! try kill him!




    BACKGROUND:

    The Elder Evil prophecy, "The traditional world of magic will be destroyed when a child with blood-eyed be born. Such a child will have power to manipulate even the most powerful divine magic and able to control true arcane power, only the complete death of the child can prevent the end of the magic schools that protect the world "

    The birth of the Nameless King was a disaster, his parents were killed by a sudden of pure arcane power. Peasants tried to kill the red-eyed, white-haired baby with a knife, but a shield of energy blocked the attack (Shield Spell). The development of the orphan baby was a mystery, but he survived without any love and affection alone in the world. His name was Lucius Threvor.


    Lucius Threvor

    The beginning of the end:
    The young elf was taken to necromancy school to understand his power. But, his personality strength and arrogance did not accept the way they learned magic. His inability to learn large numbers of spells and his way of manipulating magic challenged school leaders. Expelled and humiliated by Wizard Balther with 6 powerful undeads around him, he fled the big city and hid in the darkness. Though humiliated, he worshiped the dark and deep eyes of sinister magic.
    In the darkness, the chaotic power began to manifest, but he did not surrender, control and mold to his pleasure. After defeating defeating some opponents, he created his first skeleton with his already decomposing body.
    The power of necromancy Pulsing in your blood.


    Wrath of The Necromancer King


    With such power, he ventured into the depths, made powerful Pacts, and acquired powerful eyes that saw in the deepest darkness and powers ever imagined.
    The villain loved to hide in the shadows as he watched his Undead devour the invaders of darkness.
    When his power reached an unattainable level, he began mortal duels and learned defensive tactics and manipulation, Otherworldly Wings and the power of flying freely began to cause mass destruction.
    Now with the bodies of the dead, he brought them back to serve him. Able to manipulate illusions, battle tactics and a legion of undead he destroyed and annihilated the school of necromancy, turning them all into new tools.
    With his Temple, the surrogate ability to hide in the shadows and power of destruction he is advancing his troops to the end of those who abandoned him.
    The ultimate power in his hand, he learns to manipulate the most powerful beings with such mastery that no other spellcaster would do.
    After long years, his name has been forgotten and is now known as "Nameless King", the killer of Wizards.

    He discovered the true power of his magical blood, The Blood Magic (Maho). The power of the villain still increases, when he kills a defenseless victim he becomes more powerful! The power of True Blood Sorcerer is coming!


    Blood Sorcerer

    GOAL: The main objective of the villain is to acquire the artifact that allows to know the true names of Devils and Devils to use them to his pleasure and take Wave Conduit feature (level 30 sorcerer)



    Nameless King




    "PRATICES AND STUDY ARE FOR AMATEUR. TRUE POWER IS A BIRTHRIGHT".
    "Sorcerer King, Scion of Tiamat"





    BUILD:

    Nameless King (Divine Soul Sorcerer 17 / Hexblade 3)



    Medium humanoid (Wood Elf), Lawful Evil
    Armor Class 31 (Shield +3, Robe of Archmagi, +4 Dex, +6 Charisma - Dragon Mask +1 Warding Bond)
    Hit Points 135 (120 + Heroes' Feast)
    Speed 30ft, Fly Speed 40 (30 +10 longstride)ft
    Initiative +9 (+4 Dex +5 Alert feat)

    Wood Elf (+2 Dex +1 Wis)
    STR
    8 (-1)
    DEX
    18 (+4)
    CON
    14 (+2)
    INT
    8 (-1)
    WIS
    8 (-1)
    CHA
    20 +2 (Tome) = 22 (+6)


    Saving Throws Cha+13, CON +9, DEX +5 (Advantage against Spells and other magical effects) (+1 Warding Bond)
    Skills Stealth +20 (+6 Proficiency +10 Pass without trace Spells + 4 dex, Darkness/Invisibility Advantage), Sleigh of Hand +10 (+6 proficiency +4 Dex), Perception +5, Acrobatics +10 (+6 proficiency + 4 dex)


    Damage Resistance: All damage (Simulacrum's Warding Bond)
    Immunities: Poison, Divination, Charmed, Frightened, Psychic Damage, Fire (Dragon Mask)

    Senses passive: Perception 15, See invisible
    Magic Resistance: The Nameless King has advantage on saving
    throws against spells and other magical effects.

    Spellcasting:

    The Nameless is an 17th-level Sorcerer and 3rd-level Warlock. Its
    spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC 22, +14 to hit
    with spell attacks).

    Cantrips (at will):.Eldrich Blast, Mage Hand, Blade Ward, Prestidigitation, Guidance, Minor Image, Toll of Dead, Sacred Flame
    1st level (4 slots): Cure Wounds (free), Sanctuary, Longstride (feat bonus)
    2nd level (3 slots): See Invisible, Silence, Earth Bind, Pass without trace (feat bonus), Warding Bond
    3rd level (3 slots): Counterspell, Revify, Anime Dead, Major Image, Magic Circle, Guardian of Faith
    4th level (3 slots): Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, Freedom of Movement, Death Ward
    5th level (3 slots): Planar Binding
    6th level .(1 slot): Planar Ally
    7th level (l slot): Teleport
    8th level (l slot):
    9th level (l slot): Wish


    ACTIONS
    Ranged Weapon Attack (Oathbow): +15 to hit, reach 600 feet, one target. Hit: 64 (1d8 +6 +3d6 +3 Purple Worm Posion (DC 19, 42 average damage) piercing damage.

    Itens:
    +3 Shield
    Robe of The Archmagi
    Periapt of Proof against Poison
    Staff of Swarming Insects
    Purple Worm Poison
    Dragon Mask

    Feature and Spells know:

    Some Background Feature
    Font Of Magic (17)
    Metamagic
    MM: Distant Spell
    MM: Twin Spell
    MM: Heightein Spell
    MM: Subtle Spell
    Divine Magic
    Favor Of The Gods
    Empowered Healing
    Otherworldy Wings
    Pact Magic
    Invocation
    Eldritch Spear
    Repelling Blast
    Pact of the Blade
    Hexblade's Curse
    Hex Warrior
    ASIs: Spell Sniper, Alert, War Caster, Wood Elf Magic
    Warlock 4 Spells Know
    Sorcerer 15 Spells Know




    Don't know about Coffeelock ?
    Find here[/url]

    The Villain Active Spells:
    Well, the DM was pretty clear. Coffeelock keeps steath and buffs when start an Attack/Defense . This is Coffeelock's signature. Then, Death Ward, Contingency: Teleport, Sanctuary, Mirror Image, See Invisible and any other Spell Know. If the spells are over, he returns to his Temple of Gods for Short Rest.




    Coffeelock 2.0

    Heroes of the Orient, pg 10.
    Now Coffeelocks can regenerate 5+ spell level. This is dangerous and expensive. With access to Greater Restauration (Via Simulacrum or Summons) or Legendary Resistence (1/day). This is so important to never need sleep again.
    This is even more powerful for a Coffeelock villain where he can accumulate Hit Dice and get more and more powerful! The world needs to stop the advance of death!

    Blood Magic
    Blood magic, or maho as it is also called, is perhaps the most seductive
    and effective tool of evil in the Orient. Maho wielders, or maho-tsukai, have
    served the will of the Shadowlands for centuries, both within the empire
    and without. While the Phoenix Inquisitors and Snake Clan Bailiffs have
    dedicated themselves to purging maho from the empire, it is often those
    most dedicated to its eradication who are most likely to find themselves seduced
    by its power.
    And it is power, most often, that seduces, for maho is an easy path to
    tremendous magical power. Young shugenjas frustrated at the slow pace at
    which their power grows, old scholars chafing at the limitations of their elemental
    magic, peasant folk-magic practitioners - for all these spellcasters,
    maho offers a way to overcome obstacles that the sanctioned magic of the
    empire cannot provide.
    A creature that succumbs to maho becomes a slave of evil and the
    Shadowlands. The maho can be a great basis for an adventure in the Orient,
    and might even lead a group of adventurers into the Shadowlands
    themselves.
    Maybe the clans have been so effective at combating the maho, that
    it has been centuries since the last maho-tsukai, in which case the maho
    might be considered myth, rather than fact. Similarly, there might have
    been no activity within the crawdad-patrolled outer reaches of the Shadowlands
    for centuries, reducing the prestige of the Crawdad Clan, and lowering
    the guard of all clans against the Shadowlands and itís Taint.

    PCís and the Maho
    It is okay if a PC becomes tempted by the maho. A PC who can cast spells,
    can draw upon the maho to gain certain benefits, which might help turn
    things around in the here and now, but will have dire consequences in the
    long run.
    A PC can gain the following benefits by drawing upon the maho:
    ē Expend a hit die and add it to an attackís attack and damage rolls
    ē Expend a hit die and regain a used spell slot with a spell slot level
    equal to 1d4 + your spellcasting modifier

    ē Kill a defenseless creature to gain an additional hit die, which lasts
    until the creatureís next long rest

    Whenever a PC draws upon the maho, he must attempt a DC15 Wisdom
    saving throw. On a successful save, the PC can draw upon the maho
    without any physical or spiritual consequence, although his or her reputation
    might suffer if the act is witnessed. On a failed save, the PC becomes
    paralyzed and enters a catatonic state. The paralysis lasts for 24 hours, after
    which the PC awakens as a slave of evil, and now no longer a PC. The
    PCís personality is effectively gone, as the maho has taken over, making the
    character an NPC.
    Friends and fellow adventurerís should use the 24 hours of paralysis, to
    locate spellcasting services, as a greater restoration or wish spell can pull
    the afflicted PC back from the maho.
    After each saving throw against the maho (whether success or failure),
    the DC increases by 1, and cannot be reduced again by any means, making
    it increasingly hard to resist the maho with each attempt. Additionally, with
    each use of maho, the character gains 1 to itís Taint score (see the ďTaint
    ScoreĒ section later in this chapter).
    A character that succumbs to the maho is called a maho-tsukai. Several
    cults exist that practice maho. These cults are often small and contained,
    rarely having more than twenty members. The most powerful (or sometimes
    the most charismatic) is usually the leader of a cult, and they rarely
    have knowledge of other cults.
    In your game, a particularly powerful or charismatic maho-tsukai, could
    potentially try to unite the different cults, spelling disaster for the Orient, if
    the cults arenít stopped by brage heroes.



    Direct Combat tatic:






    The NK and his Simulacrum is flying 1200' way and/or Stealth (+20 Stealth check and advantage, Darkness or Invisibility). We have 2 concentration spells at same time. Twin Invisibility and Pass without trace.

    The NK's Attack:

    1) Long Range: Distant Metamagic + Spell sniper feat + Eldritch Spear (1.200 feet range) + Repelling Blast (Each hit, 10 feet away, WOW 80' repelling per round is really cool effect) and Heightein Sanctuary (It's a bonus action). If the enemies is close enough, he casts Distant Dimension Door (1.000 feet).
    His Nightmare Mount prepares an action (Etherealness): When a hostile creature uses a spell or an attack.
    Making the target automatically miss the attack or his spell.
    This ensures that the villain is always protected against attacks.


    Warding Bond spell turns the villain into a true tanker.
    135 HP, 36 AC (31 BC + 5 Summon's Cover), Resistance against all damage, Death Ward, Advantage against spells, Immunity to fire, Contingency : Teleport, Clone, True Ressurection (Ki-rin summon, inside the temple), Legendary Resistence (1/day)

    For example, the only thing capable to hit the villain at 1200 'is Meteor Swarm, but, this is a joke:

    - The wizard can not identify the villain and spends his single Meteor Swarm against Major Images or Alter Self (Arcanaloth). The villain begins to laugh at the poor Wizard.

    The villain has advantage against spell and can add 2d4 to saving throw (favored of the gods) and is immune to fire: The average damage would be ridiculous 15 damage, if he fails he only receives 30 damage. But of course it is virtually impossible to identify him and hit him before you be easily killed by him.

    - Nightmare's Etherealness: makes his Meteor Swarm or any effect fails.



    2) Medium Range: If the enemies is within 600', The Simulacrum casts Distant Earth Bind. If Earth Binded, NK's Silence Spells is devasting against spellcasters. The NK ignores silence effects with subtle spells.

    The Simulacrum prepares an action against targets that reach the range 600' (Teleport or flying): Ranged Attack (67 average damage per hit) = You lost your concentration and are down on the ground again (If you were flying, you fell automatically).

    Simulacrum can deal 254 average damage with 4 shots


    3) Short Range: Also, Simulacrum's Distant Silence + NK's Wish: Force Cage (Trapping the enemie and the NK) is a deadly sentense.

    - If the enemy approaches or teleports, it will be affected by multiple Guardian of Faith (22 DC, 20 radiant damage or 10 if succeful), this kills the enemy instantly.

    Guardian of Faith

    - Nameless King's Subtle Wish: Antimagic Field + Simulacrum's Ranged Attack (257 average damage + Knock Prone).

    - The Nameless King is immune to grapple (Freedom of Movement) and has +10 acrobatic check.

    - If you teleport close enough, you can be counterspelled normally and takes shots of Simulacrum (65 average damage per shot + 2d6 necrotic damage + Automatic Knock Prone (Are you flying? No) + Genies prepared actions

    - The Ki-rin Prepares a action against any intruder you try approach enough (Teleport or Flying): It casts Silence and uses Legendary actions to detect enemies around. Also, inside the temple: Ki-rin casts Guardians of Faith and true ressurection if the NK is dead. Also, Ki-rins casts Major Image at will (Permanent).

    - The Genies prepared action against any intruder you try to approach enough (Teleport or Flying) :
    Djinni (120', Creat Whirlwind DC a DC 18 Strength saving throw or be restrained by it), Djinni also creats Major Images (DC 17) to confuse the enemie. A Djinni cast continually Creat Whirlwind against the Nameless King (He is immune, Freedom of Movement), If the enemies tries attack him in melee range is affected by Whirlwind.
    Marid (60', Water Jet DC 17, 21 average damage and Knock prone). BLINDSIGHT 30'
    The Genies are always alert, trying find an enemies around.

    - The YUGOLOTHS They are used to kill Spellcasters and confuse the enemy. :
    Spoiler: Arcanaloth
    Show
    Arcanoloth:
    Innate Spellcasting. The arcanaloth's innate spellcasting ability
    is Charisma (spell save DC 15). The arcanaloth can innately
    cast the following spells, requiring no material components:
    At will: alter self, darkness, heat metal, invisibility (self only),
    magic missile

    The most effective tactic is to use Alter Self (Copying the Nameless King), this is NOT ILLUSION.
    Spellcasting. The arcanaloth is a 16th-level spellcaster. Its
    spellcasting ability is Intelligence (spell save DC 17, +9 to hit
    with spell attacks). The arcanaloth has the following wizard
    spells prepared:
    Cantrips (at will): .fire bolt, mage hand, minor illusion,
    prestidigitation
    1st level (4 slots): detect magic, identify, shield, Tenser's
    floating disk
    2nd level (3 slots): detect thoughts, mirror image, phantasmal
    force, suggestion
    3rd level (3 slots): counterspell, fear, fireball
    4th level (3 slots): banishment, dimension door
    5th level (2 slots): contact other plane, hold monster
    6th level (1 slot): chain lightning
    7th level (1 slot):.finger of death
    8th level (1 slot): mind blank


    Spoiler: Nycaloth
    Show

    Innate Spellcasting. The nycaloth's innate spellcasting ability is
    Charisma. The nycaloth can innately cast the following spells,
    requiring no material components:
    At will: darkness, detect magic, dispel magic, invisibility (self
    only)
    , mirror image


    Spoiler: Ultroloth
    Show

    True sight : 120'

    Hypnotic Gaze. The ultroloth's eyes sparkle with opalescent
    light as it targets one creature it can see within 30 feet of it. If
    the target can see the ultroloth, the target must succeed on a
    DC 17 Wisdom saving throw against this magic or be charmed
    until the end of the ultroloth's next turn. The charmed target is
    stunned. If the target's saving throw is successful, the target is
    immune to the ultroloth's gaze for the next 24 hours.

    Innate Spellcasting. The ultroloth's innate spellcasting ability is
    Charisma (spell save DC 17). The ultroloth can innately cast the
    following spells, requiring no material components:
    At will: alter self, clairvoyance, darkness, detect magic, detect
    thoughts, dispel magic, invisibility (self only), suggestion
    3fday each: dimension door, fear, wall of fire
    1fday each: fire storm, mass suggestion


    Spoiler: Planetar
    Show

    Commune (Obvious uses) + Control Weather (Disadvantage perception check!)


    Spoiler: Empyrean
    Show
    High damage and free stun, Immunitybludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from
    nonmagical weapons


    Spoiler: Ki-rin (Volo's Guide to Monster)
    Show

    Innate Spellcasting. The ki-rin's innate spellcasting ability is
    Charisma (spell save DC 17). The ki-rin can innately cast the
    following spells, requiring no material components:
    At will: gaseous form, major image (6th-level version), wind walk
    1/day: create food and water
    Legendary Resistance (3/Day). If the ki-rin fails a saving throw,
    it can choose to succeed instead.
    Magic Resistance. The ki-rin has advantage on saving throws
    against spells and other magical effects.
    Magic Weapons. The ki-rin's weapon attacks are magical.
    Spellcasting. The ki-rin is a 18th-level spellcaster. Its spellcasting
    ability is Wisdom (spell save DC 17, +9 to hit with spell
    attacks). It has the following cleric spells prepared:
    Cantrips (at will): light, mending, sacred flame, spare the dying,
    thaumaturgy
    1st level (4 slots): command, cure wounds, detect e11il and good,
    protection from evil and good, sanctuary
    2nd level (3 slots): calm emotions, lesser restoration, silence
    3rd level (3 slots): dispel magic, remove curse, sending
    4th level (3 slots): banishment.freedom of movement, guardian
    of faith
    5th level (3 slots): greater restoration, mass cure wounds, scrying
    6th level (1 slot): heroes'feast, true seeing
    7th level (1 slot): etherealness, plane shift
    8th level (1 slot): control weather
    9th level (1 slot): true resurrection


    If the enemy tries to use get cover (Although, Undeads destroy any kind of cover), the villain will be stealth and the Undeads / Army of Darkness will attack them.
    While the NK is steath, it can freely use his illusions and Subtle Spells

    Feeblemind or any save or suck : NK is protected by Heightein Sanctuary (Disadvantage 22 DC). Also, The Nameless King has acess to Greater Restauration Spell and Staff of Swarming Insects (No button and no concentration! You can't see him) and Programmed Illusion. Also, Major Image Spells (Permanent) and Alter self (Arcanoloth and Ultroloth duplicating Nameless King) can be problematic, if you try.

    Globe of Invulnerability and Antimagic Field: The Simulacrum uses Oathbow (+14 attack roll + Advantage + 1d8 piercing + 5 Dex + 3 Munition+ 3d6 piercing damage) + Purple Worm Posion (DC 19 or take 42 average damage) + Eldritch Smite (+2d6 + automatic knock prone) + Hexblade's curse = 77 average damage per shot + Advantage, crit range 19~20. Dangerous + Minion's attack.






    Indirect Combat Tatic:



    Master of Stealth, Dircord and Illusion:



    The NK is able to create multiples Major Images (Permanent) around the battleground and can use stealth action to move them. Flying Images against enemies unable to fly and if they fly, They will be vulnerable. He also used Wish: Programmed Illusion on condition of being attacked directly. Distant Casting Minor Image is useful to creat panic.
    This further hinders the enemy from going on an alpha strike, forcing them to spend their teleports and exposing themselves.
    Of course, meanwhile the Undeads are hungry.
    The Nameless King can steal material component bag and spellbooks with Stealth and Sleigh of Hand.

    Necromancy:





    The Nameless King and his Simulacrum casts Animate Dead, creating a horde of Undeads. The Nameless King prefer Archers (Longbow and Purple Worm Poison, 42 average damage) and Low-level Mages:
    Archers attack from long range and are always alert (It isnít passive perception) with perception checks to detect any approaching enemy.
    Low-Level Mages casts Earth Bind / Magic Missales/ HEX / Eldritch Blast / Entangle / Aid / Bless / Silence
    Undead don't walk together, they have a space between them, so, they are not an easy target for area spells.
    Undeads destroy any cover available on the battlefield, to make the battlefield as open as possible. No places to hide or run away.

    Undeads can deal very high damage with Magic Missale / Hex + Eldrich blast and silencing everything.

    PS: It's important to remember. The more powerful enemies are defeated, they are now Undead controlled by the villain. So there can be powerful high level Undeads. So be very careful.


    The Nameless King is the best Necromancer of the entire game.

    Army of Darkness:






    The villain is extremely efficient when summoning demons, as Lawful Evil villain is extraordinarily organized and tyrant.
    Why is he better than the others? Simple, Heightein Metamagic and acess to Planar Binding and Planar Ally. The powerful fiends have an advantage over magic and are very powerful. At the same cost, the villain has the DOUBLE chance of being successful (Heightein Metamagic).

    Undoubtedly, this is the most dangerous part of Villain. However, it is easily overcome.
    The villain uses Magic Circle (Heigher Level), every hour the villain applies multiple times Heightein Planar Binding (Heighter Level) against Empyrean until winning.
    The villain prepared the group of fiends to defeat the Empyrean, if necessary.
    First he summons the Coualt, Fiends, Genies and then the Empyrean.

    The villain will summon multiple creatures (as much as possible) and use them only in strategic and extreme cases.

    The main tactic of the Fiends is to remove any synchrony between the group, to catch the attention of the group while the villain observes the perfect time of the attack. The fiends mages are efficient for counterspell and magic missiles, they are also invisible.


    Fiends

    - Arcanaloth:
    - Alter self: Duplicate Villain at will, Invisibility at will, Magic Missale at will, MindBlank, Counterspell (Amazing against spellcasters) and others.
    - Ultraloth dispel magic at will, Mass Sugestion, Invisibility at will and others
    - Witches
    - Nycaloth
    - Nightmare (Free Etherealness)

    Celestials:
    - Couatl: Greater Restauration and suporting
    - Empyrean
    - Planetar: Comune and Control Weather
    - Ki-rin : Silence, Major Image, Guardian of Faith, True ressurection.

    Elemental
    - Genies : Special tatic


    Premises:



    - Do not ignore the villain's defenses. How did you identify the true? How did you bypass Sanctuary? Is your character able to see the enemy? How to perceive the presence of the enemy? How did you defeat the Undead perception checks ? How to know the location or who is the enemy?

    - Unearthed Arcane is disallowed (Obviouly).

    - Wish dependent on DM approval, does not work.

    - Teleport (Chance to fail) + Save or Suck (Counterspell) does not work if you do not respond how you beat the villain's defenses.

    - The temple of the gods is very well hidden and its location is not obvious (you need be able to locate it), Mighty Fortress + Temple of the Gods work well together and the entire temple is protected by permanent Wall of Stones. Inside the temple has the most powerful Undeads and Fiends ever alert. Inside the Temple is a Clone Spell.


    Temple of Gods - Blood Magic's Sacrifice

    - All villain equipment has Instant Summon Spell.

    - All as permanent and long lasting spells were casted previously and not at the time of battle: Programmed Illusions, Major Images, Planar Binding and others

    - Meta-game is not allowed, you (Player) knows the character's build, but not your character. So your character needs to be able to know about villain information. Otherwise, your tactic will NOT be valid.
    Last edited by Nothing Here; 2017-12-26 at 06:19 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    Iím confused...is this a guide to tanking in general or merely brainstorming for a yet to exist Barbarian/x tank build.

    Iíve played a few tanks in 5e and hereís my experience:

    Eldritch knight (multi Bladesinger after 7, although war wizard may be better option now): very tough, good Damage, very high AC without relying on magic items. Spells give you many good defensive options (blur, Haste, shield, protection from evil and good, Improved Invisibility). Nice utility with spellcasting and concentration on powerful spells is a pretty good carrot to get enemies to attack you.

    Immortal Mystic: This class is broken. Tons of temporary HP, multiclasses Fighter very well, spells to taste. Hopefully next version is more balanced.

    Oath of Crown Paladin: great support, a good substitute for a cleric, better with a heavy ranged or mobile party to take advantage of challenge.

    Hexblade: Having fun trapping people in devils Sight/darkness using Sentinel feat. Fiendish Vigor is insanely good for tanking at low levels. Have to make sure your party still has a target outside of the darkness though :p.

    There are lots of ways to tank in 5e. In my experience, just being the one next to monsters is enough to draw attention with most DMs. Sentinel or warcaster/booming blade is good if your Dm frequently provokes oas.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    I agree with Nothing Here. One of the best ways to absorb damage is to have a friendly Empyrean and a horde of fiends to take the damage for you.

    Simply put, being a bunch of monsters is a great way to tank.

  8. - Top - End - #8

    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganymede View Post
    I agree with Nothing Here. One of the best ways to absorb damage is to have a friendly Empyrean and a horde of fiends to take the damage for you.

    Simply put, being a bunch of monsters is a great way to tank.
    Wrong, It's Simulacrum's Warding Bond spell. Resistence to all damage.

    Also, Eldrich blast + Heightein Sanctuary (DC 22) + 36 AC is amazing tanking while attack at 1200'

    He doesn't need summons(fiends) to be a tanker.
    Last edited by Nothing Here; 2017-12-26 at 08:25 PM.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    The Cats's Avatar

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    I agree with Nothing Here. One of the best ways to tank is to spam the forum with the same overly-long post that should be behind spoiler tags but isn't because when your opponent has carpal tunnel from all that scrolling he can't swing a sword as hard.
    BokaliMali
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cats View Post
    I agree with Nothing Here. One of the best ways to tank is to spam the forum with the same overly-long post that should be behind spoiler tags but isn't because when your opponent has carpal tunnel from all that scrolling he can't swing a sword as hard.
    He has been banned several times, just don't even respond and report


    As for the Thread... There is presumption of NEEDING Barbarian to be a Tank
    Due to that presumption, everything that doesn't inherently work with Barbarian seems to be rated quite poorly.

    I personally don't recommend this guide, but That is just 1 person's opinion of course.

    Edit - The thread has since received a significant overhaul and has definitely become of amazing quality!
    I recommend this new guide for both newbie and veteran players.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Specter's Avatar

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    Thanks for the honorable mention!

    First of all, it's important to remember you can't rage in heavy armor. So you should change whatever needs to be changed around that.

    Secondly, don't sell other classes short as tanks. A rogue with Tough as a feat can have as much effective HP as a Barbarian, and can also move around the field much more easily. A paladin can use Compelled Duel to lock whoever he wants while also giving enemies a reason to target him for his auras. Etc.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
    *snip*
    All true, I hadn't thought of it that way. Will be fixed shortly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naanomi View Post
    No Tortle? No battlerager? Oath of the Crown?
    The only one of those I'm aware of is tortle, and I've never used it, so it didn't cross my mind. I'll look into them all and add them if I can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolnirbear View Post
    Also Ancients paladin doesn't even rate blue? No other class will protect your allies from spells like that level 7 aura.
    The aura is nice, and I considered mentioning it, but it's fairly small at that level, and at the end of the day you'll have to go through a lot of not-really-tank-oriented levels to get there. They're not bad features, just not as good. The guide was made trying to create a pure tank. If I wanted to tank and get some debuffs and buffs, I'd probably just play a pure paladin in the first place. The entire guide was made with this philosophy in mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relbin View Post
    Iím confused...is this a guide to tanking in general or merely brainstorming for a yet to exist Barbarian/x tank build.

    Iíve played a few tanks in 5e and hereís my experience:

    Eldritch knight (multi Bladesinger after 7, although war wizard may be better option now): very tough, good Damage, very high AC without relying on magic items. Spells give you many good defensive options (blur, Haste, shield, protection from evil and good, Improved Invisibility). Nice utility with spellcasting and concentration on powerful spells is a pretty good carrot to get enemies to attack you.

    Immortal Mystic: This class is broken. Tons of temporary HP, multiclasses Fighter very well, spells to taste. Hopefully next version is more balanced.

    Oath of Crown Paladin: great support, a good substitute for a cleric, better with a heavy ranged or mobile party to take advantage of challenge.

    Hexblade: Having fun trapping people in devils Sight/darkness using Sentinel feat. Fiendish Vigor is insanely good for tanking at low levels. Have to make sure your party still has a target outside of the darkness though :p.

    There are lots of ways to tank in 5e. In my experience, just being the one next to monsters is enough to draw attention with most DMs. Sentinel or warcaster/booming blade is good if your Dm frequently provokes oas.
    It is, in fact, a guide to tanking. I do say so in the title Eldritch knight isn't necessarily a bad way to tank. It's just overshadowed by the options mentioned and also does not actually function when paired with barbarian, a far better tank overall, given the three things I was looking for that I mentioned at the beginning. Damage wasn't a priority either. The goal was to be able to tank most in contrast to tank lots and deal some damage. I consciously chose not to include Mystic since it's such a complex class and wasn't actually official. I wasn't aware of Oath of the Crown, although apparently I'll be looking into it. I didn't think of the darkness combo because this 1) Has nothing to do with actually tanking and is a sure way to keep people away from you and get people to target people they can actually see, negating the entire idea of tanking, 2) Can only be done to one creature, 3) Assumes that this one creature will always fit inside of the darkness sphere, 4) Doesn't aid you against AoE spells and effects from monsters and traps, 5) Can be dispelled, thereby causing the entire strategy to become moot. That kind of build works well for a striker/controller, not really a tank. As for your final point, this is true.
    Last edited by Twizzly513; 2017-12-26 at 10:11 PM.
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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    Quote Originally Posted by Specter View Post
    Thanks for the honorable mention!

    First of all, it's important to remember you can't rage in heavy armor. So you should change whatever needs to be changed around that.

    Secondly, don't sell other classes short as tanks. A rogue with Tough as a feat can have as much effective HP as a Barbarian, and can also move around the field much more easily. A paladin can use Compelled Duel to lock whoever he wants while also giving enemies a reason to target him for his auras. Etc.
    For some reason, regardless of having played a barbarian multiple times, I did not notice this... Looks like I'll be doing a rework.

    Yes, I appeared to have focused in on one strategy of tanking that appeared to be the "best" strategy. This strategy is apparently nonfunctional. Perhaps tank was an overstep for a first-timer. I'll add in a section for "Strategies" and then rework the class analysis portion based on the various strategies. Hopefully it will come out correctly.
    Hello, I'm a bard.

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
    Mine was in a small town named Redcrest. The PCs set up a freelance adventuring group named the White Wolves.

    "I'm going to give Bill Clinton some gold pieces. You might become an assassin, too, if you had to pay for your mother's chemo!"

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing Here View Post
    This is the best tanker! try kill him!


    [snip]
    Reported for spam and trolling.

    I'd advise others to do the same. This person should get a permanent ban. The post and its content doesn't make head or tail of anything.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2017-12-27 at 09:59 AM.

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    Reported for spam and trolling.

    I'd advise others to do the same. This person should get a permanent ban. The post and its content doesn't make head or tail of anything.
    I did not come here expecting the Nameless King to show up... I was mistaken. And, the guy still doesn't understand how to calculate AC...

    Question: Does anyone know if the Blood Magic listed in the profile is homebrewed, or from a book? If a book, what book is it from? I only have the PHB. So, I don't know much about the non-core stuff.

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jette View Post
    I did not come here expecting the Nameless King to show up... I was mistaken. And, the guy still doesn't understand how to calculate AC...

    Question: Does anyone know if the Blood Magic listed in the profile is homebrewed, or from a book? If a book, what book is it from? I only have the PHB. So, I don't know much about the non-core stuff.
    (Note: Iím on my phone so I donít know how to change text color. Please consider the following as mostly blue.)


    Lucius Threvor (the Nameless Kingís name) cannot be killed, so of course he is the ultimate tank! Silly mortal!

    Pretty sure Blood Magic is homebrew in 5e. Donít know about prior editions.

    Iím most intrigued by the Taint Score mechanic. Is there a Department of Taint Evaluation? I wanna join. Or at least get a hat and a badge.

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jette View Post
    Question: Does anyone know if the Blood Magic listed in the profile is homebrewed, or from a book? If a book, what book is it from? I only have the PHB. So, I don't know much about the non-core stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crgaston View Post
    Pretty sure Blood Magic is homebrew in 5e. Donít know about prior editions.
    Yeah. Not an official thing (in 5th). As of who homebrewed it, I think Matthew Mercer or Middle Finger of Vecna might've had something along the lines? Not sure though.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2017-12-27 at 11:24 AM.

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    Quote Originally Posted by Twizzly513 View Post
    For some reason, regardless of having played a barbarian multiple times, I did not notice this... Looks like I'll be doing a rework.
    About the Heavy Armor: the description of the resistances you get while raging of the Bear Totem lacks the 'while not in heavy armor'-clause. So, RAW, the full plate bear warrior is still an option.

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    Quote Originally Posted by Innocent_bystan View Post
    About the Heavy Armor: the description of the resistances you get while raging of the Bear Totem lacks the 'while not in heavy armor'-clause. So, RAW, the full plate bear warrior is still an option.
    I'm not so sure how RAW this is, since the Bear Totem merely expands your list of resistances while raging. Since it was already stated that you don't get your resistances while raging, I don't see why expanding the list would change whether you can gain them while wearing Heavy Armor. I don't know how the rest of the Totems are written out, though, since I'm currently AFB.

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jette View Post
    I'm not so sure how RAW this is, since the Bear Totem merely expands your list of resistances while raging. Since it was already stated that you don't get your resistances while raging, I don't see why expanding the list would change whether you can gain them while wearing Heavy Armor. I don't know how the rest of the Totems are written out, though, since I'm currently AFB.
    You can rage while wearing heavy armor, because the start of the description of rage states "while raging and not wearing heavy armor, you gain the following benefits". So you can rage in plate, you just don't gain any benefits.

    Later, the description of bear totem's lvl 3 ability simply states "while raging, you gain resistances to all damage types except psychic". Without any mention of heavy armor.

    Note the difference with eagle's ability that does have a "while not wearing heavy armor"-clause.

    Combined, this seems like a pretty solid case for a full plate bearbarian.

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jette View Post
    I'm not so sure how RAW this is, since the Bear Totem merely expands your list of resistances while raging. Since it was already stated that you don't get your resistances while raging, I don't see why expanding the list would change whether you can gain them while wearing Heavy Armor. I don't know how the rest of the Totems are written out, though, since I'm currently AFB.
    Actually, Bear Spirit is worded as a separate source of resistance. It doesn't say it expands the normal resistance from rage, and like the poster above me said, you can rage in heavy armor and still benefit from Bear Spirit.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2017-12-27 at 01:31 PM.

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    Actually, Bear Spirit is worded as a separate source of resistance. It doesn't say it expands the normal resistance from rage, and like the poster above me said, you can rage in heavy armor and still benefit from Bear Spirit.
    It doesn't really matter to me, but in case you put any weight into Jeremy Crawford's words:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyECr...26631926468608

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    Actually, Bear Spirit is worded as a separate source of resistance. It doesn't say it expands the normal resistance from rage, and like the poster above me said, you can rage in heavy armor and still benefit from Bear Spirit.
    Even if that's the case, just losing the weapon resistance, the extra damage and the STR advantages of rage for 1-2 AC is definitely not worth it.

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking (updated)

    Alright I've updated the thread, I hope this is better!
    Hello, I'm a bard.

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
    Mine was in a small town named Redcrest. The PCs set up a freelance adventuring group named the White Wolves.

    "I'm going to give Bill Clinton some gold pieces. You might become an assassin, too, if you had to pay for your mother's chemo!"

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking (updated)

    Note about Sneak Attack

    It only requires a FINESSE Weapon...
    but does NOT Require that you use DEX for your finesse attacks

    That means you can use a Rapier with Strength, and still sneak attack!

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking (updated)

    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
    Note about Sneak Attack

    It only requires a FINESSE Weapon...
    but does NOT Require that you use DEX for your finesse attacks

    That means you can use a Rapier with Strength, and still sneak attack!
    An additional note about Sneak Attack; it makes you the off-turn threat to worry about. No-one has better off-turn damage than a Rogue and that's all sorts of Tanky once it's recognised. Add, among other things, an appearance that typically appears to be an "easy target" (unlike that plate armoured Fighter) and there's a solid argument that Rogue could be considered the best Tank class. "Attack me or suffer dire consequence" is the Tank Motto and Rogue embodies that to the letter.
    I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking (updated)

    The 'Oath of Conquest' subclass for paladin from Xanathar's guide deserves some mention here. It doesn't really come online until level seven, though before that it's still a paladin with solid oath spells and decent channel divinities, so you won't exactly be hurting at early levels regardless.

    But the aura of conquest, when it does come online, is one of the stickiest features in the game, reducing the speed of enemies within 10' that are frightened of the paladin to zero. Why merely punish an enemy for walking away from you to target your squishier allies when you can outright prevent them from doing so, while at the same time giving them disadvantage on all attack rolls and ability checks? Creatures with speed zero can't run around a corner to even start making saves to escape the fear spell. Creatures with speed zero can't stand up from prone either, so feel free to shove them over and enjoy advantage on melee attacks against them. Be a half elf and hit prone-locked targets with tri-vantage to to crit fish your smites. Who needs darkness/devil's sight?

    Yeah, by the late game a lot of enemies are immune to fear, but not all by any stretch. Pit fiends and balors aren't immune, though they have good saves with advantage. Ancient dragons aren't immune, though you have to chew through their legendary resistance. If your DM allows UA content, the 'Menacing' feat is resisted by a check, rather than a save, and so bypasses spell and legendary resistance altogether.
    The pursuit of knowledge requires a mind unfettered by the petty constraints of ethics, faith, or ... mortality.

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking (updated)

    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
    Note about Sneak Attack

    It only requires a FINESSE Weapon...
    but does NOT Require that you use DEX for your finesse attacks

    That means you can use a Rapier with Strength, and still sneak attack!
    I was aware of this, but imo Dex is still a better stat to have higher than Str if you can (especially when AC relies on it), and the only thing to really gain from attacking with Str over Dex is Rage damage. When picking between Rage damage and AC, I consciously chose AC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malisteen View Post
    *snip*
    Yeah, I remember ranking it highly at some point, not sure where it went in transfer... Will be updated

    EDIT: Somehow my description for Oath of Conquest got put under Oath of Vengeance. That's been fixed.
    Last edited by Twizzly513; 2017-12-28 at 09:49 AM.
    Hello, I'm a bard.

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
    Mine was in a small town named Redcrest. The PCs set up a freelance adventuring group named the White Wolves.

    "I'm going to give Bill Clinton some gold pieces. You might become an assassin, too, if you had to pay for your mother's chemo!"

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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking (updated)

    I'd argue against the statement "frightening people isn't good". For a tank, the frightened condition can be a fantastic debuff to impose, albeit a bit tricky to use. Imposing penalties on attack rolls and checks for enemies that can see you is obviously good, in that it reduces the effectiveness of attacks against both yourself and your party. It also makes enemies less able to resist your shoves or escape your grapples. Preventing enemies from approaching you is good if you coordinate your positioning with your team to prevent the same enemies from approaching your party members as well.

    Frightened enemies tending to scatter is, of course, an issue, but depending on your team comp other party members might be able to prevent or capitalize on that with wall effects or the like, and if you have the sentinel feat, or war caster plus booming blade, which are already solid choices for any tank, then you can prevent or significantly punish at least one enemy who tries to bolt for the hills yourself.

    I got plenty of tanking utility out of the fear bursts from Fallen Aasimar & Oath Breaker paladins in the past.
    Last edited by Malisteen; 2017-12-28 at 11:11 AM.
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    Default Re: Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking (updated)

    Quote Originally Posted by Malisteen View Post
    I'd argue against the statement "frightening people isn't good". For a tank, the frightened condition can be a fantastic debuff to impose, albeit a bit tricky to use. Imposing penalties on attack rolls and checks for enemies that can see you is obviously good, in that it reduces the effectiveness of attacks against both yourself and your party. It also makes enemies less able to resist your shoves or escape your grapples. Preventing enemies from approaching you is good if you coordinate your positioning with your team to prevent the same enemies from approaching your party members as well.
    To further this point, in a situation where the enemies can't surround you (which is the preferable situation anyways), all you have to do is position yourself between the party and your frightened enemies and they won't be able to advance at all. So, that's a pretty damn good debuff to have. It's been extremely useful in my game, when the party Paladin caused the black dragon we were fighting to be frightened (my portent dice may have forced a failed save ). It's a bit situational, but still useful.

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