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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default would adventuring in the real world work?

    Just a thought exercise. If we did the actions we perform in our favorite rpg's, how would it work out do you think?

    Obviously we have access to weapons. Rifles, handguns, swords, bows and arrows, armor... all of these exist.

    There are also plenty of targets. Drug dealers, gangs, yakuza, etc. The murder hobo approach of kill people, take their gear, get better weapons to kill bigger and better targets could totally be highly profitable.

    So, how would that work out? What level do you think the modern murderhobo could reach before he was caught or killed?

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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    Hopefully, not even level two. This is murder, plain and simple. Going all Frank Castle is still murder.
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    Hopefully, not even level two. This is murder, plain and simple. Going all Frank Castle is still murder.
    Fair point. Such a person would definitely be a very high profile criminal... which is why I added "caught or killed" as such a person, once caught by police, would never see the light of day.

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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    Technically, you only need a mass shooting or two before you get to level two...

    But more likely, you'd get your XP from hunting. I don't know how much XP a deer is worth, but it's gotta be similar to a light horse, right?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    Well, in the US, a bounty hunter is an actual job (though it usually requires the target alive, so it requires aome level of finesse)

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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    Most people who would attempt such behaviour would likely end up only killing a handful of people, if their targets don't end up killing then first. A small number would commit one or more successful mass shootings, a smaller proportion (say one in a thousand or less) would succeed in becoming serial killers without getting caught.

    In stone countries it gets harder. In my native UK getting legal guns is much harder than in the US, and even many criminals aren't willing to risk being caught with one. More specifically in England police officers have expressed a preference not to carry firearms, and I'm certain I have heard of unarmed police officers being sent to negotiate with armed criminals (it's essentially the archetypal heroic Bobbie). Here such activities would be both harder (less reliable access to firearms and ammunition for them) and easier (your targets and pursuers are also less likely to have them, and even armed police only have pistols). Going by what I know of British serial killers the result would be enough to maybe level once or twice before being caught and sentenced to life in prison (we only have the death sentence for treason and some military crimes), unless they managed to use explosives (which would up both the body count and collateral damage.

    The main problem is that somebody with the mindset to do any of this probably isn't sane enough to cover their tracks for a long time, and modern forensics makes identifying them easier. Those with the desire and sanity would be more likely to join a police force or other organisation dedicated to solving the issues, because working in a team makes it easier. Otherwise such serial killers do exist and have been documented, but they're rare (as ate, I believe, serial killers and other murderers in general).

    As a side note bounty hunting is a legitimate profession, and my understanding is that most modern bounties require the target to be brought in alive and do not give permission to use lethal force. Bounty hunters would be counted among the sane, for finding a legal way to fulfill their desire.
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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    Mercenaries are a thing in the real world.
    Imagine if all real-world conversations were like internet D&D conversations...
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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    Very poorly, I'd expect. You'd be a serial killer, basically, but targeting people who can and will fight back...and have no plot armor, because this is reality. If you survived the first firefight, you'd be caught and arrested pretty quickly.

    Action heroics and one-man-against-the-world stuff just doesn't work in reality.

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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    I assume you mean in the world today.

    First things first, some systems that I play happen in the modern day. But I guess if I was investigating cults and eldritch horror sooner or later I would come to the attention of somebody who specializes in mental health, unlikely they'd do antything as long I wouldn't break any laws.

    Vigilantism in the form of kicking down the doors of criminals, killing them and grabbing the "loot" would probably end badly. The justification that they are EVIL and I am GOOD and killing EVIL is a GOOD act would probably not hold in court. Also the criminals might have friends that would probably do me in if I didn't manage to get myself killed in the first place

    Going mercenary is also totally a thing and some of the system I play are about "The OP". A clandestine operation in a third world country would be the way to go for me as an Ex Soldier that works in the field of Private Security. In fact I think I could be pretty good at it as I have experience from places that are high reward, high value targets.
    Last edited by RazorChain; 2017-12-27 at 10:26 PM.

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    Flumph

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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    To complete the analogy, you'd probably want to head over to some lawless hellhole analogous to your character's setting. There are plenty such places around.

    I'd last about five minutes before being slaughtered like the docile office-bound cattle that I am. But I think I could do decently if I planned it out. Maybe I'd get into the marines or something, become good at fighting and ancillary tasks, then go over to some third-world undeveloped place where law is a bad joke and people can barely hold their weapons, and do whatever I want for a while until someone important decides I need to die.

    That said, my character isn't a murderhobo. He has reasons for what he does. He's a professional criminal, not a scavenger who wastes his time hawking used pistols.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    Technically, adventuring did work in the real world for quite a long time, although not as you describe it. Explorers invaded the deepest, darkest parts of Africa and South America with only a little bit of murder-hoboing of the local natives (usually, but not always, in self defense). Most of the antiquities that you see in natural history museums, were brought back by adventurers.

    New lands and new species were discovered, new trade routs mapped...they discovered new life and new civilizations....

    Just because you are an "Adventurer", doesn't mean you have to be a murder-hobo and kill everything that moves.
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutazoia View Post
    Technically, adventuring did work in the real world for quite a long time, although not as you describe it. Explorers invaded the deepest, darkest parts of Africa and South America with only a little bit of murder-hoboing of the local natives (usually, but not always, in self defense). Most of the antiquities that you see in natural history museums, were brought back by adventurers.

    New lands and new species were discovered, new trade routs mapped...they discovered new life and new civilizations....

    Just because you are an "Adventurer", doesn't mean you have to be a murder-hobo and kill everything that moves.
    I thought the adventurers were the ones that did the plundering and pillaging. I mean if there is no loot involved why do it?

    But I think this thread just reinforces that all adventurers are Neutral Evil.

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    NinjaGirl

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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    This is basically what Omar, on the Wire, did.

    You have to be smart about it, if you're going to do it at all.

    Do it in places where gang related murder/robbery is so common that an unaffiliated murder hobo can occasionally strike and the police will assume it was one of the gangs hitting another. The gangs may suspect, but will be too pre-occupied with the actual gang warfare to put serious effort into hunting the rogue down, especially since he doesn't strike any of them more than the others.

    This is probably, if not impossible to pull off for more than a hit or two, incredibly unlikely.
    Before you judge someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you judge them, you're a mile away and you've got their shoes.

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    Traditional murderhoboing never worked and never will work, let alone in modern world.

    A very important concept to understand here is that any government worth its salt will do its level best to keep a monopoly on the top level of violence - that's why you can buy a gun, but not a tank or an aircraft carrier. This stretches back to medieval times, there were sword carry laws all around Europe, Okinawa wasn't allowed to keep even kitchen knives at some point etc etc.

    In this enviroment, you either need to be working for the government or for something big enough to oppose it - and that right there stops your murderhobo thing, since adventuring party of 5 people just isn't viable. Probably the closest thing would be the viking raids, but even that started at about 50 people hitting very soft targets.

    Also, in real world, training beats experience. Gangbanger who has been shooting a handgun all his life wrong will not be able to match a guy out of basic military training in precision. Having both is obviously better. If you throw melee combat into the mix, then physical fitness beats training beats experience - we know because people who killed other people with swords told us so.

    Lastly, real life mercenaries aren't individuals or small groups, they are small armies of their own, and have been such for pretty much as long as mercenaries were a thing.
    That which does not kill you made a tactical error.

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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    If you're talking about murderhoboing, no, there's no way to do that, save being an actual serial killer.

    But there's a lot of things that have the nonstandardness of living that an "adventurer" might want.

    Consultants, insurance claims agents, and certain tiers of Federal (and intergovernmental organization) Agents have the ability to move around the nation(s), solving problems and chasing down bad guys (well, less so on the consultants for the latter).

    Certain instructors, auditors, analysts, and translators can be as free-range as they want, the same with those who gain their living through Vagabonding and seasonal work.

    Private Security Contractors are probably the closest, as they are assigned to various parts of the world and are paid handsomely for their sometimes-deadly services.

    Of course, the further away from civilization and rule of law one gets, the more you can get into "adventurer" territory, simply due to the politics of force.

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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calthropstu View Post
    Just a thought exercise. If we did the actions we perform in our favorite rpg's, how would it work out do you think?...

    This Forum does have D&D characters posting to it:
    Wizards researching a tome of eldrich lore (the academics).

    Fighters (the soldiers).

    I think there's even a couple of Clerics.


    And personally?

    "A dungeon is a room or cell in which prisoners are held, especially underground"

    For my employer (The City and County of San Francisco, A.K.A. Lankhmar),

    I have:

    Gone on quests (searched for any remaining intact plumbing under the piers),

    Explored ruins (the former Naval base, shipyards, and let's face it most of the rest of the buildings are "well used")

    Seeking treasure (look for plumbing fixtures to steal/salvage from the abandoned 6th floor Jail, for use on the 7th floor Jail).

    Also, I've encountered monsters (had Sea Lions surface next to me under the piers, one seemed to be the size of a VW Microbus!, plus... well the inmates), crawled through underground tunnels, entered crypts (jobs in the autopsy room!), looted dark passageways (the Jail cell plumbing chases looking for parts to use for the occupied cells), and I'm a Guild member (Plumbers and Steamfitters, Local 38!).

    Seems that I'm a dungeon delving Guild Thief (I hope Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser don't slay me )!

    Quote Originally Posted by Calthropstu View Post
    ...Obviously we have access to weapons. Rifles, handguns, swords, bows and arrows, armor... all of these exist.

    There are also plenty of targets. Drug dealers, gangs, yakuza, etc. The murder hobo approach of kill people, take their gear, get better weapons to kill bigger and better targets could totally be highly profitable.

    So, how would that work out? What level do you think the modern murderhobo could reach before he was caught or killed?
    .
    Oh, you mean a murderous thug?

    Yes they exist.

    Usually they have short lives.

    Sometimes they thrive and have statues made of them, some have even been mummified and venerated, and I'll stop that line of thought (hopefully) before I break Forum rules, but I'll leave with this:

    Christopher Tolkien published in Morgoth’s Ring "notes of his father" on Orcs (I have baseless doubts over how much is from which Tolkien):

    “But even before this wickedness of Morgoth was suspected the Wise in the Elder Days taught always that the Orcs were not ‘made’ by Melkor, and therefore were not in their origin evil. They mght have become irredeemable (at least by Elves and Men), but they remained within the Law. That is, that though of necessity, being the fingers of the hand of Morgoth, they must be fought with the utmost severity, they must not be dealt with in their own terms of cruelty and treachery. Captives must not be tormented, not even to discover information for the defence of the homes of Elves and Men. If any Orcs surrendered and asked for mercy, they must be granted it, even at a cost. This was the teaching of the Wise, though in the horror of the War it was not always heeded."


    In "Return of the King" Half-Orcs at least survived Sauron's fall:

    ‘Of all the ends to our journey that is the very last I should have thought of: to have to fight half-orcs and ruffians in the Shire itself - to rescue Lotho Pimple!


    Tolkien implies in "The Hobbit" that Orcs live on:

    "....cruel, wicked, and bad-hearted. They make no beautiful things, but they make many clever ones. They can tunnel and mine as well as any but the most skilled dwarves, when they take the trouble, though they are usually untidy and dirty. Hammers, axes, swords, daggers, pickaxes, tongs, and also instruments of torture, they make very well, or get other people to make to their design, prisoners and slaves that have to work till they die for want of air and light. It is not unlikely that they invented some of the machines that have since troubled the world, especially the ingenious devices for killing large numbers of people at once, for wheels and engines and explosions always delighted them, and also not working with their own hands more than they could help; but in those days and those wild parts they had not advanced (as it is called) so far."


    Tolkien is alleged to have said:

    "We were all orcs in the Great War".


    But he did write to his son:

    "We started out with a great many Orcs on our side"


    So Orcs lasted at least to 1914.


    "War makes monsters of us all"

    - A different "R. R."

    I'll add that being a PC brings some problems:

    Mrs. 2D8HP
    : Did you feed the Driders yet?

    2D8HP:
    But they always try to eat me!

    Mrs. 2D8HP:
    Don't make me TELL YOU TWICE!

    2D8HP:
    Yes dear.

    Last edited by 2D8HP; 2017-12-28 at 05:53 PM. Reason: I added the letter "a"

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Greywolf View Post
    Traditional murderhoboing never worked and never will work, let alone in modern world.
    And in a "exceptions prove the rule", there are a few cases where historical murderhobos flourished. A great example were viking raiders. Vikings used their technology (longships) to make any local government (if any) response far too late to stop the raiders. Once capable of meeting the Viking on anywhere close to even terms, the Viking era was over.

    I'm sure there are plenty of similar stories in colonial eras (I think there was at least one English serial murderer picking off natives down under (possibly Tasmania, they eventually managed to kill off all the men). I'd have to assume that in modern times, any government (local warlord, whatever) would be able to supply a sufficient amount of small arms to stop similar attacks.

    One day I mean to get around to reading whatever sagas have been translated to English. But I understand that several deal with getting a less centralized "government" to deal with the occasional murderhobo.

    - Did Hercules count as a murderhobo? Would Achilles? I'm sure there were plenty of murderhobos during the migration era as well (mostly thanks to former government producing things to fight over but not longer around or capable of mounting a defense against murderhobos).

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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    go join blackwater and murder poor people on the other side of the planet as a mercenary.
    May I borrow some bat guano?

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    Mark Hall's Avatar

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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    Lots of kinds of adventuring in the real world.

    Heck, the Ghost Hunters guys are doing a kind of adventuring as we recognize it, though it has more in common with Beyond the Supernatural or Apocalypse Prevention, Inc. than Dungeons and Dragons.

    As others have pointed out, you've got mercenary groups, criminal gangs, and even more mundane professions (like plumber) that lead you on adventures.
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Lots of kinds of adventuring in the real world.

    Heck, the Ghost Hunters guys are doing a kind of adventuring as we recognize it, though it has more in common with Beyond the Supernatural or Apocalypse Prevention, Inc. than Dungeons and Dragons.

    As others have pointed out, you've got mercenary groups, criminal gangs, and even more mundane professions (like plumber) that lead you on adventures.
    I guess this is true enough, though the ghost hunters have yet to defeat an actual ghost and so will never technically get the xp. Plumbers get xp, but it's commoner xp. Obviously, in our world, it's impossible to gain magic class xp, so most who do gain xp in a "pc class" do so as ranger, fighter or rogue types (or their modern counterparts.)
    I am more wondering how the standard adventurer from fantasy rpgs would function in modern world.

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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Greywolf View Post
    Lastly, real life mercenaries aren't individuals or small groups, they are small armies of their own, and have been such for pretty much as long as mercenaries were a thing.
    Both really. Sellswords, assassins, or simple thugs also worked as small groups or loners.

    The big mercenary armies simply got bigger reputation. Nobody's gonna remember Bob the 2nd son that wandered from place to place, but they're gonna remember Bob's Bulls that flanked the king's army in that decisive battle.

    Although at one point in Europe it was common to hire foreign generals to lead your armies.

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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    one could also abscond with civilization and head for the wild parts left in the world. such as Alaska or northern Canada. Or in my state I could go to the cascades or the Olympics.
    the first half of the meaning of life is that there isn't one.

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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calthropstu View Post
    I guess this is true enough, though the ghost hunters have yet to defeat an actual ghost and so will never technically get the xp. Plumbers get xp, but it's commoner xp. Obviously, in our world, it's impossible to gain magic class xp, so most who do gain xp in a "pc class" do so as ranger, fighter or rogue types (or their modern counterparts.)
    I am more wondering how the standard adventurer from fantasy rpgs would function in modern world.
    Only if the only way to get XP is to defeat things. Investigation could carry XP, and problem solving... and showmanship, if you're a bard or entertainer.
    The Cranky Gamer
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    RedKnightGirl

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    d6 Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    At best you are Lawful (mostly)Neutral/Evil. Military of all stripes are the modern equivalent of what we have legally.
    9 wisdom true neutral cleric you know you want me in your adventuring party


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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Freuchen

    This.

    Notably "was part of the Resistance" and "was captured by the Nazis, but escaped" comes after "lost a leg to frostbite".

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    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    The most realistic scenario I could envision of actual "adventuring" would be trucking out in the deep wilderness and attempt to survive. You'd hunt your own food, explore natural environments (caves, mountain passages, waterfalls, etc), and you could even begin building your own hideout. Of course, this is assuming you have no interest in pursuing the murder hobo fantasy in which case I agree with what everyone else has said; you'd make it a week tops and then get picked up by the cops. In my scenario, you could at least live out the "adventuring" lifestyle for as long as you can eat regularly and avoid illness.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    Join the California Conservation Corps and try their backcountry program. You will live out of a backpack for 5 months and learn to carve trails through places like Yosemite. Give you an idea of being an adventurer on someone else's dime and see rare sites most visiters never will. Other states and countries have similar programs, just gotta look around.

    If you want to play murder hobo or Indiana Jones then be prepared to have a short life or end up behind bars.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    Short answer: yes.

    Long answer: yyyyyeeeeeessss.

    Longer answer: "Adventurers" aren't. "An adventurer" is just catch-all and euphenism for various mobile sorts of people who go out in the world.

    When operating within the law, we call them peacekeepers, mercenaries, travelling merchants, privateers, missionaries, crusaders, archeologists, explorers, backpackers, hikers, tourists, thrill-seekers, entertainers, private investigators etc.

    When operating outside the law, we call them invaders, raiders, assassins, spies, pirates, thieves, tomb-robbers, con-artists, trespassers, zealots, adrenaline junkies, hobos etc.

    If you want an example of a contemporary, succesfull adventurer, look up Arman Alizad. Especially his shows Kill Arman and Viimeinen ristiretki (Last Crusade). To my knowledge, dude has not killed anyone, but if somehow visiting martial arts schools around the world and getting your arse kicked time and again doesn't count as adventuring, you have lost me. It's made even more impressive by the fact that Arman wasn't exactly a superman or a spring chicken when he started doing Kill Arman.
    "It's the fate of all things under the sky,
    to grow old and wither and die."

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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    A lot of the negative responses to this thread seem to be predicated on this happening in the americas or europe. It would be a lot more viable in unstable parts of subsaharan africa that can't hang on to a government for more than a month.

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    Default Re: would adventuring in the real world work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    A lot of the negative responses to this thread seem to be predicated on this happening in the americas or europe. It would be a lot more viable in unstable parts of subsaharan africa that can't hang on to a government for more than a month.
    A lot of answers seem predicated on equating "adventure" in general with the worst examples of "murderhobo" specifically.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    Planet Mercenary RPG Discussion

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