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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    AvatarVecna's Avatar

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    Default Re: Are ranged builds finally broken in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by War_lord View Post
    You divide your D&D play into "winning" and "losing". Winning for you is building a character so powerful that whatever the DM had prepared has to be dropped in order to accommodate that character's quest to become the near untouchable God-Emperor of that world, anything other then that goal is losing. Any attempt on the part of either the DM or the system itself to prevent that outcome is seen as the equivalent of violating your civil rights. And by your own admission you're straight up incapable of playing characters that have any characterization beyond "Chaotic Neutral Mercenary who only cares about self advancement at any cost.".

    I am stunned you can't find a group, really.
    Request to sig this, except for the name, to keep it generic enough to apply to...other individuals?

    EDIT: As now seen above.
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2018-01-03 at 08:23 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by War_lord View Post
    You divide your games into winning and losing. Winning is building a PC so powerful that the DMís plans take a backseat to your quest to become the untouchable God-Emperor of the world, anything else is losing. Any attempt by the DM/system to prevent that outcome is seen as a violation of your civil rights. By your own admission you canít play characters as anything beyond "CN Mercenary who only cares about self advancement at any cost".

    I am stunned you can't find a group.

  2. - Top - End - #182
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Are ranged builds finally broken in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Request to sig this, except for the name, to keep it generic enough to apply to...other individuals?

    EDIT: As now seen above.
    Sure, I'd be flattered.
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    Yeah, I think the only way it makes sense is if you picture Yeenoghu spreading his taint over every gnoll.

    Go ahead and imagine that.

  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Are ranged builds finally broken in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by War_lord View Post
    Sure, I'd be flattered.
    Hrm...had to cut it down a bit and trade out words to get it into the signature limits, but hopefully what's left gives the same feeling, and it links back to the original better version anyway. many thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by War_lord View Post
    You divide your games into winning and losing. Winning is building a PC so powerful that the DMís plans take a backseat to your quest to become the untouchable God-Emperor of the world, anything else is losing. Any attempt by the DM/system to prevent that outcome is seen as a violation of your civil rights. By your own admission you canít play characters as anything beyond "CN Mercenary who only cares about self advancement at any cost".

    I am stunned you can't find a group.

  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: Are ranged builds finally broken in in 5th?

    Minor gripe, saying "DM's plot" changes the meaning a bit. The DM shouldn't have a "plot", plot is story, player agency doesn't leave room for story. Player action should change the situations the DM had planned. It's just that when that change is binning the central conflict because one player wants to fulfill a personal power fantasy and has built their character to force the matter, that's bad.

    That's one of the big differences between TRPG and CRPG. A Computer roleplaying game is a single player activity, it can be an individual power fantasy, because it's designed to entertain an individual. A Tabletop roleplaying game is a group activity, it has to entertain a number of people, and in the vast majority of cases people are not entertained by playing out the role of a CRPG main character's flunky.
    Last edited by War_lord; 2018-01-03 at 09:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    Yeah, I think the only way it makes sense is if you picture Yeenoghu spreading his taint over every gnoll.

    Go ahead and imagine that.

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: Are ranged builds finally broken in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    Well surprise surprise I had builds for a while ill ask your help on to make better.

    Fighter
    Spoiler
    Show

    Race: Human(variant)

    strength 8
    dexterity 15+1
    constitution 15+
    intelligence 8
    wisdom 8
    charisma 8

    replace one 8 with 15, probably WIsdom.

    2 Feats go to increasing Dexterity, 2 go to Increasing Constitution, other 4 are Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert/Close Quarters SHooter for offense then Alert and Observant.

    fighting style: Archery

    Archetype: Champion or Eldritch Knight


    Rogue
    Spoiler
    Show

    Race: Human(variant)

    strength 8
    dexterity 15+1
    constitution 15+1
    intelligence 15
    wisdom 8
    charisma 8

    replace Intelligence with Wisdom if anything but Arcane Trickster.

    2 Feats go to increasing Dexterity, 1 goes to Increasing Constitution, other 4 are Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert for offense then Alert and Observant.



    Archetype: Arcane Trickster
    These are practical but also boring.

    Tinkering with them and in the games rules to get a better experience.

  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: Are ranged builds finally broken in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by War_lord View Post
    Minor gripe, saying "DM's plot" changes the meaning a bit. The DM shouldn't have a "plot", plot is story, player agency doesn't leave room for story. Player action should change the situations the DM had planned. It's just that when that change is binning the central conflict because one player wants to fulfill a personal power fantasy and has built their character to force the matter, that's bad.

    That's one of the big differences between TRPG and CRPG. A Computer roleplaying game is a single player activity, it can be an individual power fantasy, because it's designed to entertain an individual. A Tabletop roleplaying game is a group activity, it has to entertain a number of people, and in the vast majority of cases people are not entertained by playing out the role of a CRPG main character's flunky.
    Changed from "plot" to "plans" to fit this better. Thanks for the feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    Builds by Chaosticket
    These are practical but also boring.

    Tinkering with them and in the games rules to get a better experience.
    ...this post confuses me. It reads like you responding to builds submitted by somebody else, but they were submitted by you. Am I missing something?
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2018-01-03 at 10:34 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by War_lord View Post
    You divide your games into winning and losing. Winning is building a PC so powerful that the DMís plans take a backseat to your quest to become the untouchable God-Emperor of the world, anything else is losing. Any attempt by the DM/system to prevent that outcome is seen as a violation of your civil rights. By your own admission you canít play characters as anything beyond "CN Mercenary who only cares about self advancement at any cost".

    I am stunned you can't find a group.

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Are ranged builds finally broken in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    Well surprise surprise I had builds for a while ill ask your help on to make better.

    Fighter
    Spoiler
    Show

    Race: Human(variant)

    strength 8
    dexterity 15+1
    constitution 15+
    intelligence 8
    wisdom 8
    charisma 8

    replace one 8 with 15, probably WIsdom.

    2 Feats go to increasing Dexterity, 2 go to Increasing Constitution, other 4 are Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert/Close Quarters SHooter for offense then Alert and Observant.

    fighting style: Archery

    Archetype: Champion or Eldritch Knight


    Rogue
    Spoiler
    Show

    Race: Human(variant)

    strength 8
    dexterity 15+1
    constitution 15+1
    intelligence 15
    wisdom 8
    charisma 8

    replace Intelligence with Wisdom if anything but Arcane Trickster.

    2 Feats go to increasing Dexterity, 1 goes to Increasing Constitution, other 4 are Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert for offense then Alert and Observant.



    Archetype: Arcane Trickster
    These are practical but also boring.

    Tinkering with them and in the games rules to get a better experience.
    .
    I like the "Champion", but given your taste for "crunch", I suggest the Battlemaster, or if you want to be more "Green Lantern-like", check out the Arcane Archer in Xanathar's Guide to Everything.

    The older Unearthed Arcana version

    PDF is here


    and the revised version

    PDF is here


    The "marksman/sniper/archer" build request is a well trod road, so here's some previous threads:


    http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthr...t-archer-build


    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...at-hit-hard-5e


    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...-to-hit-Sniper


    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...per-Build-Help


    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...iable-or-trash


    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...7-Archer-Build


    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...cher-character


    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...ltimate-Archer


    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...n-archer-build


    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...-Archer-for-me


    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...PC-help-please



    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...ldritch-Archer


    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...ior-for-archer

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: Ranged Builds 5th edition

    Some of the top reasons to take the Fighter are Extra Attacks 1/2/3, and 7 advancements for statistical increases or feats.

    Martial Archetypes range in terms of effectiveness. Most grant limited abilities and they actually work against the Fighter's extra attacks as they only work one attack per turn. Thats not to say theyre useless. Several of them can increase accuracy and damage, it just doesnt syngerize.

    The Sharpshooter is the most focused around shooting. It doesnt gain Superiority dice, but it gains things much more essential to a shooting build. Steady Aim adds a damage boost that scales based on your level and it actually works with Extra Attacks. So say add +12 damage to 4 attacks on a single turn, 8 with Action Surge. Crossbows and Crossbow Master become almost obsolete unlesss you really, really want that extra Hand Crossbow shot when not using Steady Aim.

    Ah, that perks me up.

  9. - Top - End - #189
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    NinjaGirl

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    Default Re: Ranged Builds 5th edition

    How many titles does this thread need?

  10. - Top - End - #190
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Awesome Archer Builds plus arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Toadkiller View Post
    How many titles does this thread need?
    .
    I imagime as many as they're evolving thread subjects.

    The OP seems to be now be learning so let's see how this goes.

    I'm looking forward to the next title change!



  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: Ranged Builds 5th edition

    Any room for improvement on character design?

  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: Ranged Builds 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    Any room for improvement on character design?
    No, that's it. You totally nailed it. You've won ranged builds 5th edition.

  13. - Top - End - #193
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Awesome Archer Builds plus arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    Any room for improvement on character design?
    .
    Flip through the pages of (especially)
    Xanathar's Guide to Everything
    ,


    Volo's Guide to Monsters

    and,


    The Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.


    That's it for "splat".

  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Default Re: Ranged Builds 5th edition

    Well for ranged Builds the Fighter's Sharpshooter seems best.

    Rogue doesn't quite have a combat type. Still stuck with close range Hand Crossbow or Throwing daggers by default to get Sneak Attack. Scout can theoretically get multiple Sneaks in a turn at high level.

    Blaster type magic users don't seem to work in 5th.
    Last edited by Chaosticket; 2018-01-04 at 07:56 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Imp

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    Default Re: Ranged Builds 5th edition

    Blaster casters are best when they have to kill a lot of small enemies

  16. - Top - End - #196
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Ranged Builds 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    Well for ranged Builds the Fighter's Sharpshooter seems best...

    "Sharpshooter" is a Feat that may be taken by any class at fourth level (if the option to have Feats is used) not just Fighters. Most but not all DM's let PC's get Feats, and sometimes just getting +2 in DEX (or another stat) is the more "optimal" option.

    I'm guessing you meant "Archery Fighting Style", instead of "Sharpshooter", which may be taken at First Level by Fighters (or at 10th level by "Champion" Fighters, if they didn't get Archery at First-level).

    Rangers may take the Archery Fighting Style at second level.

    Other classes (including Paladins which have some of the Fighters "Fighting Style's as options) do not get the Archery Fighting Style unless they "dip" one level of Fighter, or two levels of Ranger (if the DM allows multi-classing, most do).

    A common "build" is to get one level of Fighter, for the Fighting Style, and one level of Rogue.

    When and if to "dip" are judgement calls.

  17. - Top - End - #197
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Ranged Builds 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    "Sharpshooter" is a Feat that may be taken by any class at fourth level (if the option to have Feats is used) not just Fighters.
    They're talking about the UA subclass sharpshooter, I believe. That said I still think a battlemaster w/ sharpshooter feat is better than a sharpshooter subclass with sharpshooter feat, because mainly precision attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    You think Im trolling? Youre expressing pro-oppressive views and Im Pro-freedom, so conflict.

  18. - Top - End - #198
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Awesome Archer Builds plus arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Consensus View Post
    They're talking about the UA subclass sharpshooter, I believe. That said I still think a battlemaster w/ sharpshooter feat is better than a sharpshooter subclass with sharpshooter feat, because mainly precision attack.
    .


    Whoops! I even linked to it upthread!

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    .
    The older Unearthed Arcana version

    PDF is here

    Also, I forgot to add:

    @Chaosticket,
    When you finish your complete build and decide to post it here, you should start with:
    This is the best archer! try kill him!
    And then end with:
    - Meta-game is not allowed, you (Player) knows the character's build, but not your character. So your character needs to be able to know about villain information. Otherwise, your tactic will NOT be valid.

    ....it's kinda traditional.


  19. - Top - End - #199
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Awesome Archer Builds plus arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    .
    This is the best archer! try kill him!
    And then end with:
    - Meta-game is not allowed, you (Player) knows the character's build, but not your character. So your character needs to be able to know about villain information. Otherwise, your tactic will NOT be valid.
    Ha, I'm shocked he hasn't shown up in the thread, a thread with the titles this has had seems right down his alley.
    Last edited by Consensus; 2018-01-04 at 09:34 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    You think Im trolling? Youre expressing pro-oppressive views and Im Pro-freedom, so conflict.

  20. - Top - End - #200
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    Default Re: Ranged Builds 5th edition

    Warlock seems like it can be a Ranged Combat Build in theory.

    Signature cantrip Eldritch Blast gains additional attacks as you level and there are Invocations to increase its range, turn Charisma that damage, push enemies back and so on.

    Its advancements are tricky as has fewer than the Rogue or Fighter and has more concerns with magic feats.

  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Default Re: Ranged Builds 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    Warlock seems like it can be a Ranged Combat Build in theory.

    Signature cantrip Eldritch Blast gains additional attacks as you level and there are Invocations to increase its range, turn Charisma that damage, push enemies back and so on.

    Its advancements are tricky as has fewer than the Rogue or Fighter and has more concerns with magic feats.
    Warlock is a very good and consistent ranged damage dealers for the reason you pointed out. It advancements are less tricky than a martial character, actually, since you are only concerned with one main stat, CHA, and no mandatory feats. A popular warlock strategy is the multi-class warlock 2/sorcerer X, because eldritch blast gains additional attacks based on total character level, rather than class level, and sorcerer allows the player to use quicken meta-magic, in order to cast eldritch blast twice a turn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    You think Im trolling? Youre expressing pro-oppressive views and Im Pro-freedom, so conflict.

  22. - Top - End - #202
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    Default Re: Ranged Builds 5th edition

    Yes, Warlocks are good at ranged combat. That's kinda their thing.

  23. - Top - End - #203
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    Default Re: Ranged Builds 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Consensus View Post
    Warlock is a very good and consistent ranged damage dealers for the reason you pointed out. It advancements are less tricky than a martial character, actually, since you are only concerned with one main stat, CHA, and no mandatory feats. A popular warlock strategy is the multi-class warlock 2/sorcerer X, because eldritch blast gains additional attacks based on total character level, rather than class level, and sorcerer allows the player to use quicken meta-magic, in order to cast eldritch blast twice a turn.
    Warlock still needs Dexterity and Constitution for Initiative, AC, and Hit Points. Constitution is actually more important as it also governs Concentration checks and the Warlock doesnt have proficiency with Constitution saving throws. Added to a general build is that the Warlock is a Charisma Caster so its not really a dump stat like a Fighter would use it as.

    Spell Sniper and Resilient are two high priority feats. Alert and Observant are still very useful.


    Spoiler
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    Glass Cannon

    warlock, human variant

    Strength 8
    dexterity 15+1
    constitution 15
    intelligence 8
    wisdom 8
    charisma 15+1

    of 5+1 possible feats
    level 1 racial feat, Spell Sniper or Resilience.
    level 4, the other one not chosen
    x2 +2 Charisma score increases

    2 remaining, probably Alert and something else
    Last edited by Chaosticket; 2018-01-04 at 12:12 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #204
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    Default Re: Ranged Builds 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    Well for ranged Builds the Fighter's Sharpshooter seems best.

    Rogue doesn't quite have a combat type. Still stuck with close range Hand Crossbow or Throwing daggers by default to get Sneak Attack. Scout can theoretically get multiple Sneaks in a turn at high level.

    Blaster type magic users don't seem to work in 5th.
    Shortbows work with sneak attack and if you can get Longbow proficiency form Race they will too.

    Rogues aren't really the guy that throws out a lot of attacks in a short time like movie Legolas, the are the guy who takes time to take one proper shot that will do lots of damage like a Sniper.

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    Default Re: Ranged Builds 5th edition

    Chaosticket you have joined a very elite group. Those are deemed as ďintentionally trollingĒ and I have decided to block your posts. You are not a victim. You are not honestly asking questions to learn if 5e is for you.

    I find 5e good fun. You do not. No biggie. Why you stay here and act this way is clear.

    Given your behavior I see why you are searching for a table of sycophants to glory in your awesome sauce god role.
    Preferences: Role play over optimization; Dwarf over Human over Gnome over Wood Elf; War games over FRPG; Zorro over Batman over Robin Hood.

  26. - Top - End - #206
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    Default Re: Ranged Builds 5th edition

    Just for reference, using the Sharpshooter UA at level 20 and a +3 crossbow, you could make 9 attacks on the first turn of combat at +11 to hit for 9d10+270=319.5 total damage.

    A hexblade 2/sorcerer 18 using a simulacrum and quickening eldritch blast with both hex and hexblade's curse running at +11 to hit does 16d10+16d6+176=320 total damage.

    See? Perfectly balanced /wow


    Edit: blue text
    Last edited by Jack Bitters; 2018-01-04 at 12:35 PM.

  27. - Top - End - #207
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    Default Re: Ranged Builds 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Bitters View Post
    Just for reference, using the Sharpshooter UA at level 20 and a +3 crossbow, you could make 9 attacks on the first turn of combat at +11 to hit for 9d10+270=319.5 total damage.

    A hexblade 2/sorcerer 18 using a simulacrum and quickening eldritch blast with both hex and hexblade's curse running at +11 to hit does 16d10+16d6+176=320 total damage.

    See? Perfectly balanced /wow
    Yes. One used a single short rest resource, has higher AC, higher stats, higher HP...

    The other is using up some more limited resources, used several bonus actions ahead of time (so this is happening turn three at the earliest), and has a Simulacrum.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew and a Patreon for it

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  28. - Top - End - #208
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    Default Re: Ranged Builds 5th edition

    Does anyone actually play level 20 builds? D&D is not an MMO. If it was, all of the high-end loot would be permacamped by Simulacrum armies and you'd have to pay real money for the best pixels.

    I'm more interested in builds that might actually see play. It's useful to compare a level 8 BM fighter with crossbow expert to a level 8 Blade-pact Warlock with an improve pact longbow, for instance, to see which you might rather play (consistent high damage vs burst, utility, and advantage shenanigans).
    Breaking BM: Revised - an updated look at the beast-mounted halfling ranger based on the Revised Ranger: Beast Conclave.

  29. - Top - End - #209
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    Default Re: Ranged Builds 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Easy_Lee View Post
    Does anyone actually play level 20 builds? D&D is not an MMO. If it was, all of the high-end loot would be permacamped by Simulacrum armies and you'd have to pay real money for the best pixels.

    I'm more interested in builds that might actually see play. It's useful to compare a level 8 BM fighter with crossbow expert to a level 8 Blade-pact Warlock with an improve pact longbow, for instance, to see which you might rather play (consistent high damage vs burst, utility, and advantage shenanigans).
    people compare like this bc the like big numbers
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    You think Im trolling? Youre expressing pro-oppressive views and Im Pro-freedom, so conflict.

  30. - Top - End - #210
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    Default Re: Ranged Builds 5th edition

    Sorcerer cant learn Simulacrum, unless there is a method I dont know of.

    Sorcerer is another Blaster type, but doesnt regain spells after a short rest like Warlock does and from level 1-19 has to Long rest for Sorcery points top.

    Trading 2 sorcerers levels for Warlock means you lose 1 feat and short rest sorcery points. The points arent great as that is a capstone ability.

    A SorcLock is a nice idea to do something like have a 600foot Eldritch Blast at level 5.

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