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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    Well if a character cant do sufficient damage to take out a single enemy do you consider that an effective character?

    The Fighter is theoretically much better than older editions but it seems to fall into the same old problem of trading attacks instead of killing.
    I mean in 5e a ranged fighter basically does the best single target damage possible in a single turn.

    If you don't consider that 'effective' then I don't know what else to say to you.

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    biggrin Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    I am not sure you will find/make a build that people will say, "My God!! You are so overpowered!", as an archer or a fighter.

    However if you want to be truly OP, and don't mind ticking off your table and DM, fell free to follow these few easy steps:

    (1) roll a race with high INT;

    (2) take Wizard as you class and Necromancy as your school;

    (3) survive to level 5 and say welcome to Undead Thralls;

    (4) buy 30-40 shortbows and quivers of arrows, as you continue to make skellies and zombies whenever you see corpses and bones;

    (5) unleash 20-30 skellie archers on a mob while using 10-15 zombies to protect the archers.

    Congratulations. You are The Marksman--without even breaking a sweat.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    Well if a character cant do sufficient damage to take out a single enemy do you consider that an effective character?

    The Fighter is theoretically much better than older editions but it seems to fall into the same old problem of trading attacks instead of killing.

    A Rogue is at best situational. If you could combine Sneak Attack with multiple attacks per turn then you would have high burst damage at least. In Pathfinder I found out how to do that.
    Seems like the issue you are having here is comparing 3.5 to 5e like its the same game.


    Its not. 5e is a completely different game.



    Nearly everything in 5e is on the same place in the scales with very few things standing out and even then only a small amount.

    The type of character you're trying to make isn't going to accomplish the same things you want as it could have done in previous editions or pathfinder.


    At Best you might be looking at a EK 8/AT 12 or EK 12/AT 8 depending on if you want another attack or more SA dice. both gets you plenty of ASIS for those feats you'll probably want, however you'll only be Sneak attacking 1 per turn (though you could SA if you had another attack during someone else's turn).

    If you're looking for burst there's Hexblade Blade Pact warlock who is the only class that can ranged smite. put 12 levels of that to get double CHA to dmg plus proficiency bonus with hexblade curse, add in some sneak attack dice so lets say 3 levels of Assasin for auto crits on surprised targets, then a level or 2 in fighter for action surge and archery style and maybe one more level in fighter for Arcane Archer (nother 2d6 damage), then 2 more levels of warlock to finish it all off for 14/3/3 build where you are mostly a very special type of mage who likes to shoot things with his swiss army knife of a weapon.



    Anyway even with all that you aren't gonna get the insane damage numbers you would with 3.5. Bounded Accuracy is a thing so you aren't gonna shoot as accurate as you'd like.

    You're expecting too much. 5e is not for the one man solo run insane unkillable onshoting godmode game. Also Barbarians aren't standard enemies they are damned hard to kill depending on the variety, and everything is easier with a party.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    So same old failing of Dungeons and Dragons at making a "glass cannon" class/build?

    I hoped with magic reduced ranged builds could replace them at least as physical "blasters."

    But no, killing people and creatures with Arrows and Bolts is too realistic. Where do you think "nerfing" comes from?

    I wonder how many Star Wars RPGS treat Lightsabers as foam batons. All of them?
    Last edited by Chaosticket; 2017-12-31 at 12:31 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Honey, this isn't Halo or Destiny or any first-person shooter game. This is a co-operative game. You work with a team. You don't get bonus points for headshots and there is no sniper in the way you're thinking.

    Ranged can be and is deadly. Magic isn't required. But headshots sniping? More damage than your teammates can conceive of? No.

    It's called Dungeons and Dragons, not Chaosticket Wins The Game Haha I Carried That Fight.

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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    So same old.. .
    .
    I'm really not getting what you mean.

    I've played around a half dozen 5e PC's, all Barbarians, Fighters, and/or Rogues, most had some kind of bow, and I've never regretted it.
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  7. - Top - End - #67
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolnirbear View Post
    Honey, this isn't Halo or Destiny or any first-person shooter game. This is a co-operative game. You work with a team. You don't get bonus points for headshots and there is no sniper in the way you're thinking.

    Ranged can be and is deadly. Magic isn't required. But headshots sniping? More damage than your teammates can conceive of? No.
    Fair points. 5th edition isnt 3.5. 5th edition is too soft on combat.

    Not a lot of risk from save or die attacks when they don't exist anymore.

    Building a character capable of killing everything isnt possible now.
    Last edited by Chaosticket; 2017-12-31 at 12:41 AM.

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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    ...5th edition is too soft on combat...

    ...Building a character capable of killing everything isnt possible now.
    .


    I still don't know what you mean.

    Too hard for PC's to die?

    Maybe.

    Too hard for PC's to kill monsters?

    I don't think so.

    To illustrate:

    The adventure was Storm Kings Thunder, the PC's were a wood elf ranger 3, a tiefling rogue 3, a mountain dwarf barbarian 3, and my character a wood elf fighter 1/rogue 2.

    The Dwarf Barbarian yelled at two Ogres in a cave, which ran out to fight him, when one Ogre got within 5 feet of the Dwarf, it got shot full of arrows by the other PC's who were hiding in some tree's, and was killed, the other Ogre tried to attack as well, and was also filled with arrows, and killed before every PC even had two turns of combat.

    The DM said that he didn't expect the combat to be so one sided.


    Later the Dwarf Barbarian nearly got killed by some goblins because he insisted on doing some melee fighting.

    Bows work.

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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    Fair points. 5th edition isnt 3.5. 5th edition is too soft on combat.

    Not a lot of risk from save or die attacks when they don't exist anymore.

    Building a character capable of killing everything isnt possible now.
    The point is why would you want one?

    This is a mutual game of story telling. A game of challenge and intellect. A game of fun and excitement. You don't keep score. There are no damage counters and you get no more XP for killing more creatures than others in your team.

    You say 5e is soft on combat. Because you can't shoot something from 500 feet away and watch its head explode? That is the opposite of challenge.

    I mean, if you want that, you can do it. Variant human with sharpshooter will do more damage than any commoner will survive.

    But no, there is no E-Z Mode Build that will make anything that is challenging *not* be challenging. Which, if that's what you want, is the opposite of '5e is soft on combat.' You can't have E-Z Build and challenge at the same time. And if you want it, then you want soft on combat. You just want it soft *for you*.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    Fair points. 5th edition isnt 3.5. 5th edition is too soft on combat.

    Not a lot of risk from save or die attacks when they don't exist anymore.

    Building a character capable of killing everything isnt possible now.
    You can definitely build a character capable of killing everything.

    You can not however expect that death to come in one round. There is no oneturnkill combo that works from Zombies to Balors without fail. This isn't a broken game where a single feat from a random splatbook will be the sole reason you lay waste to a cave full of dragons, or where you can be a Sand Lich at level 11

    The character that can kill everything is the character with a very strong party.

    Again this isn't the same game as 3.5
    5e is not D&D updated. its a different D&D entirely. Stop putting your expectations from different games on it. You wouldn't expect Shadowrun levels of 'ware in Star Wars Edge of the Empire. Same thing here man.

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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortis_Elrod View Post
    Again this isn't the same game as 3.5
    5e is not D&D updated. its a different D&D entirely. Stop putting your expectations from different games on it. You wouldn't expect Shadowrun levels of 'ware in Star Wars Edge of the Empire. Same thing here man.
    I strongly disagree with this on a philosophical level. A product labeled as a new edition or model (whether it be software, a smartphone, a car, a textbook, or a set of rules for a roleplaying game) is implicitly marketing itself as an upgrade, useful for the same purposes and tasks as its predecessor.

    It would have been dshonest to market Star Wars Edge of Empire as Shadowrun 6th Edition, as EoE is not suitable for running the same sorts of games as Shadowrun. Therefore I disagree with your analogy to D&D 5e and its predecessors.

    (For context, I consider 5e to be accurately marketed as a new edition of Dungeons and Dragons, because it is generally useful for running the same types of campaigns as prior editions, even though I have specific complaints regarding certain features not being as compatible as I would prefer.)

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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xetheral View Post
    I strongly disagree with this on a philosophical level. A product labeled as a new edition or model (whether it be software, a smartphone, a car, a textbook, or a set of rules for a roleplaying game) is implicitly marketing itself as an upgrade, useful for the same purposes and tasks as its predecessor.

    It would have been dshonest to market Star Wars Edge of Empire as Shadowrun 6th Edition, as EoE is not suitable for running the same sorts of games as Shadowrun. Therefore I disagree with your analogy to D&D 5e and its predecessors.

    (For context, I consider 5e to be accurately marketed as a new edition of Dungeons and Dragons, because it is generally useful for running the same types of campaigns as prior editions, even though I have specific complaints regarding certain features not being as compatible as I would prefer.)
    Themes and settings have continuity between editions. Mechanics don't, at least in the general case. Power levels certainly don't have continuity--they never had.

    Dungeons and Dragons is not a unitary game system with multiple editions, properly understood. It's a brand, a set of families of related game systems. It always has been.

    Pre-2e I'm not familiar with enough to be specific, but I know it was never intended as a unitary system. Everyone used different pieces and heavy "house-rules" were common.

    2e (with all of its variations) was a single game system family.

    3e had a second edition: 3.5. It now has a spiritual successor, Pathfinder.

    4e had "core" and "essentials" as members of the family.

    5e so far only has one product in the family, although you can make the case that AL is a separate member of the family.
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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    So youre saying I wont have fun in 5th edition.

    I should just read a fantasy novel and play videogames. Any suggestions? I like the DiscWorld Series and Im going to get the Dragon Age games sooner or later.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    Fair points. 5th edition isnt 3.5. 5th edition is too soft on combat.

    Not a lot of risk from save or die attacks when they don't exist anymore.

    Building a character capable of killing everything isnt possible now.
    If you want a game where you can just roll through everything, 1-shotting opponents by the dozens, then you want to be playing Diablo III, not D&D.

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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixPhyre View Post
    Themes and settings have continuity between editions. Mechanics don't, at least in the general case. Power levels certainly don't have continuity--they never had.

    Dungeons and Dragons is not a unitary game system with multiple editions, properly understood. It's a brand, a set of families of related game systems. It always has been.

    Pre-2e I'm not familiar with enough to be specific, but I know it was never intended as a unitary system. Everyone used different pieces and heavy "house-rules" were common.

    2e (with all of its variations) was a single game system family.

    3e had a second edition: 3.5. It now has a spiritual successor, Pathfinder.

    4e had "core" and "essentials" as members of the family.

    5e so far only has one product in the family, although you can make the case that AL is a separate member of the family.
    I'm merely arguing for the general principle that so long as a product is labeled a new edition or model, it is implicitly claiming to support the same purposes and tasks as its predecessor.

    How well each edition of D&D remained useful for the same purposes and tasks as its predecessors is a separate question. Note that in the case of D&D that question is complicated by the 1977 split into different product lines marketed for different purposes.

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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xetheral View Post
    I'm merely arguing for the general principle that so long as a product is labeled a new edition or model, it is implicitly claiming to support the same purposes and tasks as its predecessor.

    How well each edition of D&D remained useful for the same purposes and tasks as its predecessors is a separate question. Note that in the case of D&D that question is complicated by the 1977 split into different product lines marketed for different purposes.
    I'd read "purposes" and "tasks" very broadly here. "Heroic" (larger-than-life), team-combat-oriented, class-and-level-based fantasy table-top role-playing? Check (across all editions, basically). Beyond that? YMMV.

    3e marketed it's D20 system as a universal system. 4e/5e abandoned that presumption. Not all have even used the "d20 + modifiers vs target number" approach. Who rolls what has changed dramatically.

    3e tried to pretend to simulate a fantastic reality--4e was unabashedly a game with disassociated mechanics. 5e splits the difference.

    2e was "the rules are rough guidelines," 3e was "RAW is king," 4e codified as much as possible, 5e is "rulings over rules."
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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xetheral View Post
    I'm merely arguing for the general principle that so long as a product is labeled a new edition or model, it is implicitly claiming to support the same purposes and tasks as its predecessor.

    How well each edition of D&D remained useful for the same purposes and tasks as its predecessors is a separate question. Note that in the case of D&D that question is complicated by the 1977 split into different product lines marketed for different purposes.
    The purposes and tasks of D&D are to created collaborative stories of adventures, and for everyone at the table to have fun doing it.

    3.5x accidentally broke that, and turned it into a min-maxer toolkit. It enabled a certain kind of driven, analytical person with control issues to utterly dominate the table. It divided character archetypes into tiers of power that made many of them worthless and un-fun.

    5E fixed that, and put it back on track - well, as well as can be expected given the baggage it's accumulated over time - and now it's fun again, for a way wider group of people.

    Speaking as someone who's played since Blue Box in 1977, this version supports it's purpose and task better than any edition did before, and I can argue specifics if need be. But, I don't think that's necessary - it's current success and broad appeal speak for itself.
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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    PhoenixPhyre and Beelzebubba: I would agree with some parts and disagree with other parts of what you each wrote regarding how well each edition of D&D has remained useful for the same purposes and tasks as previous editions. But as I mentioned in the post you both quoted, that's separate from my general claim about marketing.

    Are your posts agreeing with my claim and elaborating how you would each individually apply the principle to D&D? If so, great! If not, and you were disagreeing with my claim or wanted a response to specific points you made, please let me know.

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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    So youre saying I wont have fun in 5th edition...

    "Won't have fun"?



    It's Dungeons & Dragons!

    How could you not have fun?

    As I said a year or three ago:

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    ...if the game features a Dragon sitting on a pile of treasure, in a Dungeon and you play a Wizard with a magic wand, or a warrior in armor, wielding a longbow, just like the picture on the box I picked up in 1978, whatever the edition, I want to play that game!

    Please look at this picture.
    LOOK AT IT!

    A Wizard with a Magic Wand!

    A warrior in armor with a longbow and sword!

    and,
    A Dragon on a giant pile of treasure in a dungeon!

    Does it get better?
    As a player you: explore a fantastic world that has freakin' dragons inside of dungeons!
    NO IT DOESN'T GET ANY BETTER!
    Sign me up now and forever!:

    Now if you want to try most of the 5e rules for free (you cheapskate) click:

    here


    and


    here


    If your looking for a table to join click

    here


    If you want free (you cheapskate) rules very close to "Classic" Dungeons & Dragons click


    here


    But I'm getting a little ticked off at you @Chaosticket, you asked for awesome "builds" for a 5e Archer (as have a dozen+ other threads on this Forum) and your reply is "I doubt those builds are actually awesome enough to be fun" (or close enough to that).

    Huh?

    Those builds are completely AWESOME!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
    Does the game you play feature a Dragon sitting on a pile of treasure, in a Dungeon?
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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    So youre saying I wont have fun in 5th edition.
    You might still have fun, but you'd absolutely have to change the way you think about the game, the goal of your character/build and how they move through the world.

    That said, if you do not want to do that, or can't do that, then unfortunately you really might not have fun with 5e. It's just not made for a single character to be The Star that can mow down all challenges by themself with one-hit-kill after one-hit-kill. If you have a DM who's willing to run a solo game for you and work with you on what you want, it's possible, but it'd be so heavily house-ruled that it wouldn't really be 5e anymore, and if you're just capable of mowing down everything the DM throws at you anyway I don't see a reason the DM wouldn't get bored. It would be unfair to expect to be able to do what you want with more players/a party, even a PvP campaign.

    Skyrim is actually really freaking cool. Not even being sarcastic, you can actually build yourself up enough that you're doing crazy damage with your bow and taking out most enemies with one hit with sneak attacks.
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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xetheral View Post
    PhoenixPhyre and Beelzebubba: I would agree with some parts and disagree with other parts of what you each wrote regarding how well each edition of D&D has remained useful for the same purposes and tasks as previous editions. But as I mentioned in the post you both quoted, that's separate from my general claim about marketing.

    Are your posts agreeing with my claim and elaborating how you would each individually apply the principle to D&D? If so, great! If not, and you were disagreeing with my claim or wanted a response to specific points you made, please let me know.
    I'm disagreeing with your requirements for being an "edition" as opposed to a new game. More specifically, the "editions" of D&D only share weak continuity (and only in theme, setting, and high-abstraction concept) and are better thought of as separate games that happen to be marketed as editions of the same game for brand purposes.
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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    So youre saying I wont have fun in 5th edition.
    Well, we could always be surprised, but you've created at least three threads now where you've (what I would call) basically complained that 5e isn't 3e/PF and/or tried to do 3e/PF things with 5e and then called 5e something like 'soft' when it doesn't do the 3e/PF things you want. It does kind of make everyone wonder, 'so why do you want to switch from 3e/PF? It sounds like it does exactly what you want out of a TTRPG.'

    Quote Originally Posted by Xetheral View Post
    I strongly disagree with this on a philosophical level. A product labeled as a new edition or model (whether it be software, a smartphone, a car, a textbook, or a set of rules for a roleplaying game) is implicitly marketing itself as an upgrade, useful for the same purposes and tasks as its predecessor.
    It would have been dshonest to market Star Wars Edge of Empire as Shadowrun 6th Edition, as EoE is not suitable for running the same sorts of games as Shadowrun. Therefore I disagree with your analogy to D&D 5e and its predecessors.
    (For context, I consider 5e to be accurately marketed as a new edition of Dungeons and Dragons, because it is generally useful for running the same types of campaigns as prior editions, even though I have specific complaints regarding certain features not being as compatible as I would prefer.)
    I'm merely arguing for the general principle that so long as a product is labeled a new edition or model, it is implicitly claiming to support the same purposes and tasks as its predecessor.
    How well each edition of D&D remained useful for the same purposes and tasks as its predecessors is a separate question. Note that in the case of D&D that question is complicated by the 1977 split into different product lines marketed for different purposes.
    To play devil's advocate, by this logic, then all the editions you are referencing are falsely advertising themselves as D&D. Some of the biggest, most fundamental changes in how the Dungeons and Dragons game is played happened between the original 1974 Little Brown Books and in 1975 with those LBBs and the Greyhawk expansion. Since many of those developments from GH (such as thief class- inspired resolution mechanics and attributes having greater meaning outside of prime req-dependent XP bonuses) are in all editions past OD&D, all of them should be considered a new game using this logic. And even if not, all 2e AD&D and future games should be considered a different game, given how different a game the combat-centric modern game is compared to the 'Oceans 11 with swords' game that the games of the gp=xp era theoretically were.

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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    I've been playing a straight-classed rogue with a crossbow for a while now in 5E, having reached level 4. It's pretty effective - unlike 3E, the game doesn't throw roadblocks at me every so often. A rogue is as close as you can get to "one shot, one kill" in a game like D&D, since you put a lot of SA dice on every arrow or bolt. Any other class will have to fire a lot of arrows to kill anything. Of course, while effective, it's also pretty repetitive. So far, moving around, hiding and shooting has proven to be the most effective tactic most of the time.
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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Every thread I make about 5th edition is pretty much challenging people to show me 5th has a reason to be worthwhile. It keeps failing as al the things im interested in are in other editions.

    5th is so bland and generic. I want spices and tastes Ive never tried before and meet people who are better cooks than I am. So Im going to go back to Indian food instead.

  25. - Top - End - #85
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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    ...Some of the biggest, most fundamental changes in how the Dungeons and Dragons game is played happened between the original 1974 Little Brown Books and in 1975 with those LBBs and the Greyhawk expansion. Since many of those developments from GH (such as thief class- inspired resolution mechanics and attributes having greater meaning outside of prime req-dependent XP bonuses) are in all editions past OD&D, all of them should be considered a new game using this logic.....
    .
    You could almost consider the LBB's themselves two different games, depending on whether you used Chainmail or the "Alternate Combat System".

    But to the larger point, Greyhawk was a big change.

    To me (while the rules are different) first level 5e feels like playing third level TSR D&D, with bits of Champions and RuneQuest mixed in.

    Not exactly the same, but still plenty fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    Every thread I make about 5th edition is pretty much challenging people to show me 5th has a reason to be worthwhile. It keeps failing as al the things im interested in are in other editions.

    5th is so bland and generic. I want spices and tastes Ive never tried before and meet people who are better cooks than I am. So Im going to go back to Indian food instead.
    .
    I think you're putting way too much emphasis on the rules, table and the adventure matter more.

    Phandelver
    (from the Starter set) is a great adventure.

    Proof is in the play, try it or not.

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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    Every thread I make about 5th edition is pretty much challenging people to show me 5th has a reason to be worthwhile. It keeps failing as al the things im interested in are in other editions.

    5th is so bland and generic. I want spices and tastes Ive never tried before and meet people who are better cooks than I am. So Im going to go back to Indian food instead.
    Sad to hear that. But I think you're looking for [spice] in all the wrong places, to paraphrase a song. If you want power fantasies, 5e is not your edition. That doesn't make it bland, it just makes the flavor not to your liking. If you want high crunch, this is not your edition.

    If you want rules that get out of your way and let you actually play, this is a great edition for it. If you're looking for sane rules without thousands of edge-cases and broken bits, this is a good edition. If you're looking for something that's playable with a range of people and styles from "grognard" CAW/high-lethality hexcrawls to "modern" character-oriented heroic fantasy, this is a good edition for that (with appropriate modifications for tone).

    None of those are intrinsically good or bad. De gustibas and all that.
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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    Every thread I make about 5th edition is pretty much challenging people to show me 5th has a reason to be worthwhile. It keeps failing as al the things im interested in are in other editions.
    5th is so bland and generic. I want spices and tastes Ive never tried before and meet people who are better cooks than I am. So Im going to go back to Indian food instead.
    And I for one am really not going to argue with you. You use whatever terms you want. Given how 4e was introduced as the edition which fixed all the 'horrible things' that were screwing up 3rd edition play, it's pretty clear that each edition can be seen as great or awful, depending on one's preferences.

    Fortunately, no one is forcing anyone to play any given edition. And 3e (in the form of PF) and 5e are both still active and supported. So everybody wins.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixPhyre View Post
    None of those are intrinsically good or bad. De gustibas and all that.
    Or 'it takes all kinds,' or 'one man's trash,' etc.

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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    Every thread I make about 5th edition is pretty much challenging people to show me 5th has a reason to be worthwhile. It keeps failing as al the things im interested in are in other editions....
    .
    What are those things?

    Spoiler: Or is it just that you want this?
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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Equal or better features than other tabletop games. I know thats subjective.

    Specific areas of focus for me are a games character customization and advanced combat options.

    A generic game with generic characters is by definition uninteresting. If you can make it interesting in ways like players making unique characters or controlling the game from within rather than the GM then that is better than having stereotypical classes or following standard rpg scenario #7.

    5th edition is just boring and comparing it to anything is like comparing white bread and chicken to a buffet.

    For example is there ways to make superior builds to the default classes? A Rogue that does one-turn kills against anything? A Druid that has a bear Army? How about an Archer that shoots down dragons?
    Last edited by Chaosticket; 2017-12-31 at 07:49 PM.

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    Default Re: "Dont bring a sword to a Bow Fight" Are ranged builds finally great in in 5th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    Equal or better features than other tabletop games. I know thats subjective.

    Specific areas of focus for me are a games character customization and advanced combat options.

    A generic game with generic characters is by definition uninteresting. If you can make it interesting in ways like players making unique characters or controlling the game from within rather than the GM then that is better than having stereotypical classes or following standard rpg scenario #7.

    5th edition is just boring and comparing it to anything is like comparing white bread and chicken to a buffet.

    For example is there ways to make superior builds to the default classes? A Rogue that does one-turn kills against anything? A Druid that has a bear Army? How about an Archer that shoots down dragons?
    Subjective, subjective, and subjective. 5e characters are defined less by their mechanics than by their actual...you know...character. I can play 3 fighters, all champions (the white-bread of white-bread mechanically) and have them all be very different characters. One might wear a shield and be a protector, another might be an archer, a third might wield a polearm. One might be an annoying git, another might be a wise sage, a third might be a raw novice. These, to me, are the antithesis of boring or generic. I can have players who focus on what their character wants to do instead of looking for mechanical levers to pull or trying to "break" the game. Those are features, in my book.

    You want a power fantasy where you can massacre everything and "win D&D". This is not your game. On purpose. For good reason. All of those builds are broken, if you want any sense of verisimilitude or setting. One-turn kills are bad gameplay for everyone except the rogue who feels superior. Having a bear army slows the table play down tremendously and overshadows the other players. You can have an archer who knocks dragons out of the sky (but doesn't kill them)--go Hexblade with a bow as a pact weapon. Smites auto-prone, and prone flying things fall.

    Note that in real life, snipers don't do head-shots very much nor are they "instantly lethal." Effective, sure, but very limited. Not like in the movies. And those with bows much less so--there's a reason bows went out of style. Limited armor penetration, for one.
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