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    Default How to deal with wights without spells?

    So, as may be known, killing things with negative levels tends to have them rising up as wights. These wights are also incorporeal. Let's assume they don't go bugger off and start an apocalypse. So, they are your problem.

    The first way to deal with them is to of course, not have them rise in the first place. I know in myth, there are things people did to the dead to keep them dead. Are there ways in D&D?

    But, failing that, we need to be able to detect them, even if they cheese by going through the ground. (Since incorporeal negates Listen, and grants invisibility bonus to hide, and moving through walls is almost certainly some sort of cover) Mindsight is the only way I can think of, since it doesn't mention line of sight Blindsight, by fluff, would not work, but mechanically I don't see anything saying it doesn't. Tremorsense doesn't work, as they are incorporeal.

    Once it's been detected, killing it is arguably the easiest part. Even if it sticks to the walls during fights, it has to come out to touch you, however briefly. Ready action. Hit it. Of course, turn/rebuke undead also works.

    EDIT: Yeah. OK. Now I've got egg on my face. How did I convince myself that wights are incorporeal?
    Last edited by SangoProduction; 2017-12-31 at 11:58 AM.
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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    I think you're confusing Wights and Wraiths. Wights can be sworded to death in the usual way; a small Wight infestation can be dealt with by rounding up the town guard and going after them. If you have any higher-level clerics/town wizards/adventurers on hand it's safer to send them on the job, since they're less likely to get killed and turned by a single hit, but even a bunch of 1st level warriors with basic gear can do the job if needed.

    For preventing spawning, there's the 2nd level Cleric/Wizard/Sorc spell Spawn Screen; lasts 1 hr/level, prevents the affected target from rising as a spawn if it's killed while under the effects.

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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    Hallow prevents the dead from rising.
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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    So since everybody else who posted forgot about the "Without Spells" part of your title, I'll just go ahead and point out that wights are corporeal, and thus can be killed with mundane weapons or fire. Fire is always good.

    The question as to what else you can use really depends on the sources available to you and the system you are playing however.

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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    Mindsight is the only way I can think of, since it doesn't mention line of sight
    Does mindsight state it ignores Line of Effect? Otherwise, it won't work.

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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    I’m assuming that these are special homebrew wights that are not wraiths but that are still incorporeal.

    You can’t really fight incorporeal stuff without magic. Thankfully, magic items can work just fine even if you don’t have actual spells. (I think thhere’s a special wood that hits incorporeal things normally, probably in BoED or Eberron or something, but I don’t have my books open.) So make sure everyone involved has at least a basic magic weapon. If you can get fancy, the Crown bind of that one soulmeld whose name escapes me (Crystal Helm?) is basically designed for fighting incorporeal stuff, but most characters won’t have that. Holy water can technically damage incorporeal undead, but it provokes. I forget if there’s some special delivery mechanism in Libris Mortis or a similar book (A&EG, maybe?), but that might be worth researching.

    Readied actions have been mentioned. I often say that a readied action war has no winners, only losers, but if you’re fighting “lurk in the walls” incorporeal stuff and your goal is to kill it rather than to run away from it, you might indeed need to engage in a readied action war, as mentioned.

    If potions and scrolls are kosher, you’ll want some that help deal with negative levels.

    I seem to recall an alchemical substance called a Ghostwall Shellack that makes you able to control the arena a bit, but I forget the source.
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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    I think you're confusing Wights and Wraiths. Wights can be sworded to death in the usual way; a small Wight infestation can be dealt with by rounding up the town guard and going after them. If you have any higher-level clerics/town wizards/adventurers on hand it's safer to send them on the job, since they're less likely to get killed and turned by a single hit, but even a bunch of 1st level warriors with basic gear can do the job if needed.

    For preventing spawning, there's the 2nd level Cleric/Wizard/Sorc spell Spawn Screen; lasts 1 hr/level, prevents the affected target from rising as a spawn if it's killed while under the effects.
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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    That would be the first step, making sure you are fighting the wight sort of undead and not the wrong one.
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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    That would be the first step, making sure you are fighting the wight sort of undead and not the wrong one.
    lol. Yeah. Now I need not have the use of negative level killings weigh on my shoulders.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andor13 View Post
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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    oh...yeah. I probably am. Derp.
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    Clearly you need to salt and burn the bones.

    Also the Lord of Blades welcomes the Wight apocalypse, only silly mortals are affected by Negative levels. We can easily clean up this mess once they wipe out humanity. 1st level Warforged Fighter with Adamantine plating and a heavy shield doesn't have much to fear from +3 to hit 1d4+1 damage.
    Last edited by Yogibear41; 2018-01-02 at 03:05 PM.

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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    A few thoughts here:
    1. Hallow should be kosher even if spells aren't normally being considered since the town temple or sacred Grove could have been hallowed a hundred years ago and it would still be in effect. I would expect that most temples are hallowed and in small villages it's the role of the more distant bishop or other prelate from a nearby small or large city who can actually cast hallow to travel to the temple and cast hallow to consecrate the new temple.

    2. Pathfinder opens up a few more options for dealing with incorporeals. There is the arcane strike feat (though if you can have the feat you have spells too). And there are ghost salts weapon blanches to make weapons effectively ghost touch for one strike. (Savvy players note that one strike is all ammunition like arrows normally gets making this full on ghost touch on the cheap for archers).

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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    No spells? No problem. Just use explosives, psionics, incarnum, and anything else that isn't spell dependent.

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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Miller View Post
    Hallow prevents the dead from rising.
    Incorrect, only corpses interred in a hallowed area are prevented from rising. An important distinction.
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    If you need to detect an incorporeal creature hiding inside a thick a wall without magic, you're pretty much just gonna have to level the place- and even then they can hide in the rubble, followed by the floor. While they can't move more than 5' deep, perfect silence combined with total cover means undetectable without magic, be it spell or other supernatural source. Now, if this is an actual normal above-ground building, the walls are most likely not thick enough to contain a medium creature, so you can get a bunch of people with holy water to fan out, sweep the building, and corner it. Assuming they don't just die and become spawn (which as noted can be prevented with bigger magic). Shellacking various walls can be used in conjunction with or in lieu of squishy commoners.

    That said, Detect Undead is a 1st level spell so its at least the (second) smallest amount of magic required to do the thing, maybe. Since an incorporeal creature can't move more than one square into a wall, the edge of their square is the surface of the wall, and thus a case can be made that the 1' of stone doesn't block it because there's actually 0' of stone between you and their square. If the walls are ruled to block Detection scans then you'll need the much higher 4th level Locate Creature.

    Don't forget that while hiding in a wall, they can't see out. The subtype lets them sense the presence of creatures or objects adjacent to their location, and Dread Wraiths have Lifesense, but otherwise they've got to make listen checks (with who knows what modifiers) like anyone else. Similarly, just because they're hiding in a wall doesn't mean they get automatic surprise rounds or anything. If you can't see someone you can't partial charge them, so unless the target is directly adjacent the incorporeal must waste their surprise round moving out of the wall, then follow initiative like anyone else. If they want to use the wall for cover to peek out and make a hide check (Wraiths do have plenty of skills), then the party gets to roll spot and force initiative if anyone wins. If they swing blindly they get 50% miss chance on the surprise round, still only have cover vs the party's readied actions after that, and at 4v1 a single target is wrecked.

    Which comes to the xp- if the party lacks access to the spells and magic expected for fighting incorporeal undead, then an encounter with those creatures is more difficult than the standard CR and demands more xp. 4th level Restoration is required to remove con drain or negative levels, if you're fighting multiple foes without access to gobs of Death Ward you're probably screwed, and if its in any way required for the main quest then the DM had best pony up.
    Last edited by Fizban; 2018-01-04 at 04:36 AM.
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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    A question I've been wondering for awhile. If you're fighting an incorporeal creature and you have a torch, does the 1 point of fire damage count?

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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by thorr-kan View Post
    A question I've been wondering for awhile. If you're fighting an incorporeal creature and you have a torch, does the 1 point of fire damage count?
    No, as it's non-magical. Incorporeal doesn't draw a distinction between weapon damage and energy damage, or physical objects and energy; the line is 'magical or not', and it has to be magical to even have a chance. Has to be Ghost Touch, also incorporeal, or Force, Positive, or Negative energy to affect the incorporeal being without suffering a 50% miss chance.

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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    without spells ones only hope against incorporeal monsters is magic weapons. or the ghostbusters. other wise your done.
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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    Aside from Serran wood, if you have access to Ghostwalk you can get stabilized ectoplasmic equipment for normal price+stabilizer. Crafting solid equipment out of ectoplasm is a ghost feat, but even without that you could pay someone to cast Create Ectoplasm (a 1st level clr/sor/wiz spell) and then treat it with the Ectoplasmic Stabilizer (a cheap alchemical item) to make it last for 10 days. Weapons coated with soft ectoplasm only deal half damage, but it's still more reliable than the 50% miss chance of magic weapons. Most lower level incorporeal undead don't have that many hit points anyway, so having the whole party able to swing against just AC and hit for half is a lot better than hoping one or two with magic weapons can hit both AC and miss chance enough times in a row to win fast.
    Last edited by Fizban; 2018-01-06 at 03:03 AM.
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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    Have you considered avocado toast?

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    Default Re: How to deal with wights without spells?

    Even if its not relevant any more, as the OP realized Wights are not Wraiths: If without Spells ojnly means exactly that, and not without ANY kind of supernatural stuff: Get a Warlock with the nice at Will SHatter, and crumble everything they hide in. :)
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