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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Ok so today I saw a comment saying to use a whip for stunning strike on a kensai. Which is pretty cool. But that got me thinking. What other abilities can you use the whip with? Itís a finesse reach martial weapon but that 1d4 is not very good. But Kensais increase the damage die to d6 at level 5 and at level 6 make it magical. So the following is a very MAD build focused on outing as much crap I can cram into a single Attack action using the whip.

    Half elf: 13/14/12/9/14/16(18)

    Hexblade 3/Kensai 6/Battle Master 3/Blade Bard 3/Paladin 2/Arcane trickster 3

    Ooh boy. So kensai 6 I already covered, you also get Deft strike to use so thatís another d6. Hexblade 3 gets improved pact weapon giving us a +1 whip. Which we kind of need do to our stats. Battle Master 3 gives us a lot of maneuvers and superiority dice to add to damage, plus a fighting style and action surge. Iíd say take whatever fighting style you want, maybe archery in case your other kensai weapon was say a longbow. Paladin 2 gets us smite. Not much else besides that. Blade Bard gets us Flourish and Dueling fighting style which both work with the whip build. Your also getting awesome Bard spells and expertise and jack of all trades. Finally we have Arcane trickster which gives 2d6 Sneak attack, more expertise and cunning action. Arcane trickster was chosen for the tea spells and slots for smiting also getting a familiar. Could choose other ones (Swashbucker for more initiative and free mobile)

    What does this all add to?

    Bonus action Hexblade curse + Flourish + 3rd level spell smite + 1 pact weapon + deft strike+ Maneuver + Sneak attack + stunning blow and dueling style = a lot from a safe distance of 10 feet.

    Thatís like 6 + 1d6 + 4d8 + 1 + 1d6 + 4 + 1d6 + 1d8 + 2d6 + 2 = 53 avg damage. And a lot of it is usable 1 or 2 more times before a rest. Most of the resources get back on a short rest.

    Idk. Just wanted to share. How would yal make the whip Master? Probably less MAD and dippy.

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Kensai and Rogue are your two best bets for whip users, I'd say, as both are reasonably capable of bypassing the low damage die-- kensai through Martial Arts, and Rogue because most of your damage comes from Sneak Attack. But the main advantage of the whip is reach, whereas Kensai kind of wants to be mixing in unarmed strikes, so I'd say Rogue.

    Now, a whip means reach, which for me says "AoOs.". Which are also great for Rogues, so that makes me happy. Polearm Master doesn't work, but Sentinel does. While we're at it, let's go Bugbear for even more reach silliness. Now we can stand behind the front line and whip the crap out of everyone, probably twice a turn. A dip in Fighter only helps, with Dueling Style boosting damage a bit and shield proficiency to fill our empty hand.

    Another thought is to enable hit-and-run tactics that weren't great before. A whip + Spell Sniper + Booming Blade is a nasty combination, and works amazingly on Rogues and pretty well on Bladesinger Wizards.
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Kensai and Rogue are your two best bets for whip users, I'd say, as both are reasonably capable of bypassing the low damage die-- kensai through Martial Arts, and Rogue because most of your damage comes from Sneak Attack. But the main advantage of the whip is reach, whereas Kensai kind of wants to be mixing in unarmed strikes, so I'd say Rogue.

    Now, a whip means reach, which for me says "AoOs.". Which are also great for Rogues, so that makes me happy. Polearm Master doesn't work, but Sentinel does. While we're at it, let's go Bugbear for even more reach silliness. Now we can stand behind the front line and whip the crap out of everyone, probably twice a turn. A dip in Fighter only helps, with Dueling Style boosting damage a bit and shield proficiency to fill our empty hand.

    Another thought is to enable hit-and-run tactics that weren't great before. A whip + Spell Sniper + Booming Blade is a nasty combination, and works amazingly on Rogues and pretty well on Bladesinger Wizards.
    Ahhh so what your saying is we need some Mystic levels. 11 levels gets us Psionic Mastery. With Giant Growth discipline we use 9 points and psychic focus to have Ogre and Giant form active at same time on a big bear. Use other nine levels for Arcane trickster 3 and eldtritch Knight 6? Maybe blade Bard 6 or kensai 6. Yeah thatís a nice 30 feet to stun right ?

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    I'd like to throw warlock in the mix. Consider drow, blade pact, Devil's Sight, Eldritch Smite, Elven Accuracy. Roll 6d20 on two whip attacks out of your own magical darkness (duration: ten minutes). Utilize misty step / thunder step to get in and out of danger. Smite targets whenever you land a crit, dealing double smite damage and knocking them prone (your allies will appreciate it).

    Hexblade is an obvious but unnecessary choice. There are plenty of useful features and spells among other patrons.
    Breaking BM: Revised - an updated look at the beast-mounted halfling ranger based on the Revised Ranger: Beast Conclave.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Quote Originally Posted by Easy_Lee View Post
    I'd like to throw warlock in the mix. Consider drow, blade pact, Devil's Sight, Eldritch Smite, Elven Accuracy. Roll 6d20 on two whip attacks out of your own magical darkness (duration: ten minutes). Utilize misty step / thunder step to get in and out of danger. Smite targets whenever you land a crit, dealing double smite damage and knocking them prone (your allies will appreciate it).

    Hexblade is an obvious but unnecessary choice. There are plenty of useful features and spells among other patrons.
    But the Whip is the most charismatic weapon of them all! It Demands hexblade. It works great with your level 6 ability. Use your whip on your Wight minion if he steps out of line!

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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    That's very MAD, Rogue by itself is great with whips. I'm not sure you need so many different classes.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Quote Originally Posted by Talionis View Post
    That's very MAD, Rogue by itself is great with whips. I'm not sure you need so many different classes.
    But can you trip with it as a rogue? Can you stun with it? Push and pull enemies, disarm them even? Can Flourish ? More importantly Do you even smite bro? This isnít just some dude with a whip and a very good understanding on how to use it to his advantage whenever he can. This is the Whip Master. His whip can even turn into a sword or a crossbow if he needs it.


    What about the fantasy man

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Why not go dex paladin? Smite for big damage, you get the dueling fighting style baked in, and if you go Oath of Vengeance you can get Hunters Mark for extra damage. Oath of Devotion can give you a sacred +CHA mod whip, and if you dip warlock you can smite on a short rest assuming you're into that kind of thing.

    "Die monster! You don't belong in this world!"
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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Quote Originally Posted by Armok View Post
    Why not go dex paladin? Smite for big damage, you get the dueling fighting style baked in, and if you go Oath of Vengeance you can get Hunters Mark for extra damage. Oath of Devotion can give you a sacred +CHA mod whip, and if you dip warlock you can smite on a short rest assuming you're into that kind of thing.

    "Die monster! You don't belong in this world!"
    "It is not by my will that I am once again given flesh."

    Doesn't hexblade pact of blade still get smite? I'd go with that... Or you could yuan-ti with their new racial feat to turn into a snake. BE the whip!
    Maybe college of whispers bard. They can psychic "blade" smite

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Unless you're starting at level 20 with all stats but INT above 13, this build is a pain.

    I can understand the appeal of control with a whip, but to be efficient with one all you really want is a Rogue with cantrips (probably Arcane Trickster) and Spell Sniper. That lets you use Booming Blade (and Green-Flame Blade if you get two foes next to each other) at a range of 10 feet, so you don't even need to be near your foes to annoy them. At level 20, that's 1d4+10d6+3d8 plus riders. That's 51avg per round, which is cool because it's at-will.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Quote Originally Posted by Specter View Post
    Unless you're starting at level 20 with all stats but INT above 13, this build is a pain.

    I can understand the appeal of control with a whip, but to be efficient with one all you really want is a Rogue with cantrips (probably Arcane Trickster) and Spell Sniper. That lets you use Booming Blade (and Green-Flame Blade if you get two foes next to each other) at a range of 10 feet, so you don't even need to be near your foes to annoy them. At level 20, that's 1d4+10d6+3d8 plus riders. That's 51avg per round, which is cool because it's at-will.
    Listen guys itís not about the money itís about sending a message. When my DM Asks me how much damage when I hit I wanna be able to respond with: ďWell first roll a Con save for stun and a Str save for prone, now while you do that let me just roll an maneuver dice, Sneak attack, smite, a martial arts die, oh and bardic inspiration.... oh and the whip die... and now let me add my proficiency bonus, charisma modifier, dueling stance. And my +1 from improved pact weapon please.

    Done? Ok ready for my second attack?Ē

    Obviously Iím probably better off with booming blade on a rogue but booming blade isnít as satisfying as the amount of control stunning strike and Superiority Dice and even Flourish gives. I want it all. Booming blade ainít enough for me. Call my build MAD if you will for I must be Mad indeed

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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Wanting it all never works out well.

    Why not a Rogue 9/Swords Bard 11 or Battlemaster 11 build? 2-3 attacks per turn, a fighting style, and a couple d10s worth of additional effects. Does 36-46 damage per turn +27 OA before the use of any spells, Flourishes, or superiority dice.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Quote Originally Posted by Nidgit View Post
    Wanting it all never works out well.

    Why not a Rogue 9/Swords Bard 11 or Battlemaster 11 build? 2-3 attacks per turn, a fighting style, and a couple d10s worth of additional effects. Does 36-46 damage per turn +27 OA before the use of any spells, Flourishes, or superiority dice.
    I suppose i could trim the fat so to speak and come up with a few different combos.

    For the nearly mundane Stun Whip maybe: Battlemaster 12/Kensai 8. You can stun while doing all those cool maneuvers and your whip has the best base damage its ever seen..1d6. seems alright with 5 attacks a turn.

    For the SMITE whip. Straight up padlock seems good. Bonus is the prone effect: Hexblade 6/Paladin of (insert oath) 14. Pretty sure you get find better steed too so mounted whip option with the double smite. plus whip can turn into other things.

    For the boring a solid Kensei/BattleMaster 12 and Rogue of whatever flavor 8 can work. sneak attack and do other cool stuff i suppose.

    If i wanted the Flourish and the Smite i would do.... Blade bard 14/Hexblade 6. Thats a fun combo. and its still a fullcaster. Pick up some magical secrets too. Heck i could put elemental weapon on the thing via hexblade and grab find better steed with magical secrets. This is probably better than the double smite though i can only use the warlocks slots for Eldtrich smite. I'll take the free prone with my Flourishes. And make a song of it too.



    I honestly don't like the rogue. it doens't so much as use the whip better as the whip is somehting he can sneak attack with. One could get booming blade via warlock or spell sniper feat itself or by being a high elf or half high elf.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Battlemaster is also pretty good -- you can use your whip for a bunch of your supremacy abilities. Who doesn't wanna whip the sword out of a bad guy's hand? Battlemaster/Rogue multiclass seems like a pretty rad approach: sneak attack compensates for the low base damage dice, and manoeuvres give you a ton of versatility.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    1 fighter: dueling, weapon proficiency
    19 rogue: sneak attack
    -grab spell sniper for a scag cantrip
    -maybe martial adept and 3 fighter for utility

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Quote Originally Posted by Desteplo View Post
    1 fighter: dueling, weapon proficiency
    19 rogue: sneak attack
    -grab spell sniper for a scag cantrip
    -maybe martial adept and 3 fighter for utility
    You can't do this build as mentioned. Spell Sniper requires that you can cast at least one spell. So, you would need to be a High Elf or some other race that gets a cantrip
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkKnightJin View Post
    Play a Tabaxi caster with Gust, use the cantrips to knock stuff off of tables.
    I'm pretty sure my next character will be a Tabaxi Arcane Tricker Rogue with Gust and mage hand legerdemain specifically for this.
    Spoiler: Homebrew
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    You can't do this build as mentioned. Spell Sniper requires that you can cast at least one spell. So, you would need to be a High Elf or some other race that gets a cantrip
    Or Arcane trickster via rogue.

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortis_Elrod View Post
    Or Arcane trickster via rogue.
    Good point, forgot about that one.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkKnightJin View Post
    Play a Tabaxi caster with Gust, use the cantrips to knock stuff off of tables.
    I'm pretty sure my next character will be a Tabaxi Arcane Tricker Rogue with Gust and mage hand legerdemain specifically for this.
    Spoiler: Homebrew
    Show

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    BardGirl

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Dual Wield feat with TWF style, use Rapier/Dagger with Whip. Now you have two threatening OA reach zones. STR or DEX depends on your desired progression, so choose your multiclass for flavor.

    Rogue for Sneak Attack is solid, and plays well with the dagger being thrown for SA. Two attacks on your turn, and an OA reaction threat on another's turn before the round ends. Three Sneak Attack attempts, of which two may land, per round.

    Or Barbarian or Fighter or Monk (IIRC Martial Arts needs finesse weapons) or Paladin or Ranger or... I'm sure we can find reasons for any of those combinations and more. What sort of flash are you interested in?

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Quote Originally Posted by opaopajr View Post
    Dual Wield feat with TWF style, use Rapier/Dagger with Whip. Now you have two threatening OA reach zones. STR or DEX depends on your desired progression, so choose your multiclass for flavor.

    Rogue for Sneak Attack is solid, and plays well with the dagger being thrown for SA. Two attacks on your turn, and an OA reaction threat on another's turn before the round ends. Three Sneak Attack attempts, of which two may land, per round.

    Or Barbarian or Fighter or Monk (IIRC Martial Arts needs finesse weapons) or Paladin or Ranger or... I'm sure we can find reasons for any of those combinations and more. What sort of flash are you interested in?
    I mean unless something about OAs deny whips, whips still threaten in 5 feet in this Edition. Though the throwing option isnít bad. The flash Iím am looking for is pretty much as much as I can get as possible.

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    Devil

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Quote Originally Posted by Easy_Lee View Post
    I'd like to throw warlock in the mix. Consider drow, blade pact, Devil's Sight, Eldritch Smite, Elven Accuracy. Roll 6d20 on two whip attacks out of your own magical darkness (duration: ten minutes). Utilize misty step / thunder step to get in and out of danger. Smite targets whenever you land a crit, dealing double smite damage and knocking them prone (your allies will appreciate it).

    Hexblade is an obvious but unnecessary choice. There are plenty of useful features and spells among other patrons.
    *singing* "Whip Blade! ...Whip it good!"

    Now I want to play an actual Whipblade character (Hexblade with Whip)
    Last edited by samcifer; 2018-01-03 at 10:59 AM.
    "I'll have my revenge, and Deathstalker (part) II! ô"

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Padlock can get an extra cha mind's worth of damage by going oath breaker. Pal 8, hexblade 12 gets cha to damage three times over, albeit not before level 19 at the earliest.

    Conquest Pally likes reach, freezing enemies in place with their aura, then hitting them from 10 feet away. As a tanky/controlly build, they like the ability to carry a reach weapon and a shield at the same time, and don't mind the lower damage so much. Even if whip isn't their primary weapon, sword & board conquerors like to carry a whip in their back pocket. And the whip fits their theme pretty well.
    The pursuit of knowledge requires a mind unfettered by the petty constraints of ethics, faith, or ... mortality.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortis_Elrod View Post
    I mean unless something about OAs deny whips, whips still threaten in 5 feet in this Edition. Though the throwing option isnít bad. The flash Iím am looking for is pretty much as much as I can get as possible.
    OAs happen when a creature leaves your reach. Because whips have reach to 10', a creature that is engaged in melee with you at 5' could back up 5' and not provoke an OA from you.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Quote Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
    OAs happen when a creature leaves your reach. Because whips have reach to 10', a creature that is engaged in melee with you at 5' could back up 5' and not provoke an OA from you.
    Ahhh, so thatís the catch. Thanks very useful

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    Devil

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortis_Elrod View Post
    Ahhh, so thatís the catch. Thanks very useful
    what if you have a dagger in your off hand or such? would OA be provoked then?
    "I'll have my revenge, and Deathstalker (part) II! ô"

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Quote Originally Posted by samcifer View Post
    what if you have a dagger in your off hand or such? would OA be provoked then?
    Yes. Which is why a dagger in hand is worth 2 in the bush

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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Quote Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
    OAs happen when a creature leaves your reach. Because whips have reach to 10', a creature that is engaged in melee with you at 5' could back up 5' and not provoke an OA from you.
    Tactically speaking, what would be the point of this? So they can hit you with a ranged attack without disadvantage? I think this would only really come up against enemy spellcasters.

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    BardGirl

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    *sigh* There's no such keyword term as "off-hand" in 5e. Thus you may always walk around with a weapon in each hand without worry about penalties. You just have limits on when you can trigger bonus action Two Weapon Attack.

    Rapier/Dagger is 5' reach. Whip is 10' reach. Now you have two OA reach zones. You can now layer with other melee formations and have a higher threat reach to trigger OAs. Daggers can be thrown -- and easily be replaced in each of your turns by your 'One Free Interact with the Environment'. You are now front line, second row, and mid-range threat... and have two OA reach zones to lock down opponent mobility from OAs.

    Throw in Rogue SA and you now have an even better reason to try to land more OAs with your two OA reach zones.

    I'm sure we can easily think up of other Archetype and Multiclass uses atop this.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Ridiculous suggestion: VHuman Dex-Valor Bard with the Sentinel feat. Use the whip to force enemies to keep their distance so you can do you can fight without risking damage, and keep enemies at bay with a whip so you can cast spells to your heart's content.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The Whip Master build. An effectively Meh but cool playstyle

    Quote Originally Posted by opaopajr View Post
    Rapier/Dagger is 5' reach. Whip is 10' reach. Now you have two OA reach zones. You can now layer with other melee formations and have a higher threat reach to trigger OAs. Daggers can be thrown -- and easily be replaced in each of your turns by your 'One Free Interact with the Environment'. You are now front line, second row, and mid-range threat... and have two OA reach zones to lock down opponent mobility from OAs.

    Throw in Rogue SA and you now have an even better reason to try to land more OAs with your two OA reach zones.

    I'm sure we can easily think up of other Archetype and Multiclass uses atop this.
    I'd point out that this isn't exactly RAW. The opportunity attack section says OAs trigger when something "leaves your reach". I could see a lot of DMs say, that if you can still whip them, they are still within your reach. That's actually RAW, IMO. I'd run this by your DM, before going in thinking its how it should work. YMMV
    Last edited by PeteNutButter; 2018-01-03 at 05:05 PM.
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