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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Max_Killjoy's Avatar

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    Default Re: How to capture the fairytale feel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    I think itīs more complicated than that. We're experiencing a drift between "Values"-based society and "Results"-based society.
    Looking at old greek or roman tales, as been noted above, they often dealt with "metis", so "Smarts and Cunning", but also dealt with horrible bloodshed and wars.

    Later, we see the rise of "Value"-based societies. "Proper Behavior", "The Rule of Law", knowing the underlying code, so to speak, with "Restraint and Control" being the key to success.

    What we now experience is a return to the "Results"-based model. Itīs quite astonishing when one thinks about it, but a lot of "heroes" lately are ... morally challenged?... and successful because of it, their "metis" again.

    Itīs pretty interesting to see that something like committing to the "UN Human Rights Charta" was once seen and understood as a strength, now it is seen as a weakness that holds you down.
    I could so get into that discussion but it would get into bad territory so fast.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    Planet Mercenary RPG Discussion

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    FabulousFizban's Avatar

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    Default Re: How to capture the fairytale feel?

    read some george macdonald and puruse things like pierre dubois' the complete encyclopedia of elves, goblins, and other little creatures. The myths and legends podcast is also useful.
    Last edited by FabulousFizban; 2018-01-13 at 09:16 AM.
    May I borrow some bat guano?

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    Default Re: How to capture the fairytale feel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    I could so get into that discussion but it would get into bad territory so fast.
    It doesn't take too much training to keep a "discussion", not a "dispute", on a civilized level, at least as long all participants agree that this is an exchange of ideas and not a contest about who is right.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: How to capture the fairytale feel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    It doesn't take too much training to keep a "discussion", not a "dispute", on a civilized level, at least as long all participants agree that this is an exchange of ideas and not a contest about who is right.
    There are still a lot of examples that would have to be avoided no matter how civil, and I don't necessarily mean that I'd be the one taking it in a bad direction.

    As one hopefully harmless example, someone I know says "I don't need my gladiators to be Rhodes Scholars or Noble Peace Prize winners" whenever a scandal with an athlete comes to light.

    Let's just say that on that side-topic, I've seen exactly the cultural shift you're talking about.
    Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2018-01-13 at 09:26 AM.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    Planet Mercenary RPG Discussion

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    Default Re: How to capture the fairytale feel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    There are still a lot of examples that would have to be avoided no matter how civil, and I don't necessarily mean that I'd be the one taking it in a bad direction.

    As one hopefully harmless example, someone I know says "I don't need my gladiators to be Rhodes Scholars or Noble Peace Prize winners" whenever a scandal with an athlete comes to light.

    Let's just say that on that side-topic, I've seen exactly the cultural shift you're talking about.
    Avoiding a discussion here doesn't really help the topic on hand, right, and I think the mods will agree on this.

    To pick up on your example, think Hare and Tortoise, but also think Frog and Scorpion as used in L5R, which as a game draws heavily on "Faerie tales".

    Hare is the short-term winner, but Turtle wins the Marathon. Frog is good, skilled and all doped up, but Scorpion writes the rules.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: How to capture the fairytale feel?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    Spoiler: Ballad of Tam Lin
    Show
    O I forbid you, maidens all,
    That wear gold in your hair,
    To come or go by Carterhaugh,
    For young Tam Lin is there.

    There's none that goes by Carterhaugh
    But they leave him a wad,
    Either their rings, or green mantles,
    Or else their maidenhead.

    Janet has kilted her green kirtle
    A little above her knee,
    And she has braided her yellow hair
    A little above her brow,
    And she's away to Carterhaugh
    As fast as she can go.

    When she came to Carterhaugh
    Tam Lin was at the well,
    And there she found his steed standing,
    But he was away himself.

    She had not pulled a double rose,
    A rose but only two,
    Till up then started young Tam Lin,
    Saying "Lady, pull thou no more."

    "Why pullest thou the rose, Janet,
    And why breakest thou the wand?
    Or why comest thou to Carterhaugh
    Withoutten my command?"

    "Carterhaugh, it is my own,
    My daddy gave it me,
    I'll come and go by Carterhaugh,
    And ask no leave of thee."

    Janet has kilted her green kirtle
    A little above her knee,
    And she has braided her yellow hair
    A little above her brow,
    And she is to her father's house,
    As fast as she can go.

    Four and twenty ladies fair
    Were playing at the ball,
    And out then came the fair Janet,
    The flower among them all.

    Four and twenty ladies fair
    Were playing at the chess,
    And out then came the fair Janet,
    As green as any glass.

    Out then spake an old grey knight,
    Lay over the castle wall,
    And says, "Alas, fair Janet, for thee,
    But we'll be blamed all."

    "Hold your tongue, ye old faced knight,
    Some ill death may ye die!
    Father my babe on whom I will,
    I'll father none on thee."

    Out then spake her father dear,
    And he spake meek and mild,
    "And ever alas, sweet Janet," he says,
    "I think thou goest with child."

    "If that I go with child, Father,
    Myself must bear the blame,
    There's never a lord about your hall,
    Shall give the child a name."

    "If my love were an earthly knight,
    Though he's an elfin grey,
    I would not give my own true-love
    For any lord that ye have."

    "The steed that my true love rides on
    Is lighter than the wind,
    With silver he is shod before,
    With burning gold behind."

    Janet has kilted her green kirtle
    A little above her knee,
    And she has braided her yellow hair
    A little above her brow,
    And she's away to Carterhaugh
    As fast as she can go.

    When she came to Carterhaugh,
    Tam Lin was at the well,
    And there she found his steed standing,
    But he was away himself.

    She had not pulled a double rose,
    A rose but only two,
    Till up then started young Tam Lin,
    Saying "Lady, pull thou no more."

    "Why pullest thou the rose, Janet,
    Among the groves so green,
    And all to kill the bonny babe
    That we got us between?"

    "O tell me, tell me, Tam Lin," she says,
    "For His sake that died on tree,
    If ever ye were in holy chapel,
    Or Christendom did see?"

    "Roxbrugh he was my grandfather,
    Took me with him to bide
    And once it fell upon a day
    That woe did me betide.

    "And once it fell upon a day
    A cold day and a snell,
    When we were from the hunting come,
    That from my horse I fell,
    The Queen of Fairies she caught me,
    In yon green hill to dwell."

    "And pleasant is the fairy land,
    But, an eerie tale to tell,
    At the end of every seven years,
    We pay a tithe to Hell,
    I am so fair and firm of flesh,
    I'm feared it be myself."

    "But the night is Halloween, lady,
    The morn is Hallowday,
    Then win me, win me, if ye will,
    For well I think ye may."

    "Just at the mirk and midnight hour
    The fairy folk will ride,
    And they that would their true-love win,
    At Miles Cross they must bide."

    "But how shall I thee know, Tam Lin,
    Or how my true-love know,
    Among so many uncouth knights,
    The like I never saw?"

    "O first let pass the black, lady,
    And then let pass the brown,
    But quickly run to the milk-white steed,
    Pull ye his rider down."

    "For I'll ride on the milk-white steed,
    And ride nearest the town;
    Because I was an earthly knight
    They give me that renown."

    "My right hand will be gloved, lady,
    My left hand will be bare,
    Cocked up shall my bonnet be,
    And combed down shall be my hair,
    And there's the tokens I give thee;
    No doubt I will be there."

    "They'll turn me in your arms, lady,
    A lizard and an adder,
    But hold me fast, and fear me not,
    I am your child's father."

    "They'll turn me to a bear so grim,
    And then a lion bold,
    But hold me fast, and fear me not,
    And ye shall love your child."
    "Again they'll turn me in your arms
    To a red hot brand of iron,
    But hold me fast, and fear me not,
    I'll do you no harm."

    "And last they'll turn me in your arms
    Into the burning gleed,
    Then throw me into well water,
    O throw me in with speed."

    "And then I'll be your own true-love,
    I'll turn a naked knight,
    Then cover me with your green mantle,
    And hide me out o sight."

    Gloomy, gloomy was the night,
    And eerie was the way,
    As fair Jenny in her green mantle
    To Miles Cross she did go.

    At the mirk and midnight hour
    She heard the bridles sing,
    She was as glad at that
    As any earthly thing.

    First she let the black pass by,
    And then she let the brown,
    But quickly she ran to the milk-white steed,
    And pulled the rider down.

    So well she minded what he did say,
    And young Tam Lin did win,
    Then covered him with her mantle green,
    As happy as a bird in spring.

    Out then spake the Queen of Fairies,
    Out of a bush of broom,
    "She that has gotten young Tam Lin
    Has gotten a stately-groom."

    Out then spake the Queen of Fairies,
    And an angry woman was she,
    "Shame betide her ill-fared face,
    And an ill death may she die,
    For she's taken away the bonniest knight
    In all my company."

    "But had I known, Tam Lin," she said,
    "What now this night I see,
    I would have taken out thy two grey eyes,
    And put in two of tree.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FuaSdOdpzw
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5JMuURuLMc
    (personally I think the images on the second video are ill suited but it's the only one I could find with this particular recording)

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