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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Eldritch archer help

    Hello world!

    I am currently a fifth level eldritch knight(the last level isn't set in stone yet) in a campaign where the main concept is restoring the world from a zombie infestation. My party contains a UA ranger (who racks up the damage hard core) a arcane trickster(sneaky mc-steal/scout), a bloodsworn (a home-brew that is pure tank basically) a cleric of life (who is surprisingly effective in melee) and a transmutation wizard (whose attendance is sporadic) in addition to me. RP wise I am the captain of the party, who are an elite militia. I am loving magic, especially being creative with it, and we already have a lot of damage on the team, granted I am about to start picking up speed. I have a magic bow that allows me to cast spells through it, basically old style arcane archer. I am thinking about taking a war-wizard dip, but wondering how far I should go. I realize that my attacks will probably be my best source of damage, which makes attack magic a bit more lackluster, but I love spells like grease and fog cloud that I can get creative with. My stats are

    str-13
    dex-20
    con-14
    wis-12
    int-16
    char-10

    feats taken=war-caster

    yes, the stats are high, we used an elite array (it is a HARD campaign, we just finished fighting a kraken)

    TL;DR I am an eldritch knight/archer who can cast spells through his arrows. I want more magic, how far into wizard do I go?

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Kane0's Avatar

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    Default Re: Eldritch archer help

    How would your bow interact with the level 7 EK War Magic feature? You may not want to miss out on that, nor your second extra attack at level 11
    Otherwise War Wizard stacks spell slots nicely, though you'll need at least 5 levels to get Fireball or Lightning Bolt arrows. Do you know what level you're expected to reach by the end of the campaign?
    Last edited by Kane0; 2018-01-02 at 05:44 PM.
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Eldritch archer help

    I am thinking level 20, or very close at the least. The campaign was designed as 1-20. and I am not sure how it would respond to level 7 EK
    Last edited by Calivar; 2018-01-02 at 05:46 PM.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Eldritch archer help

    I think the first cantrip would be cast through the bow, and the BA attack would be a normal arrow

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    Kane0's Avatar

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    Default Re: Eldritch archer help

    Well if your primary means of attack will be spell via arrow then you want as much casting as you can stack on, 4 or 5 EK levels and the rest in War Wizard will leave you with 9th level spells by the endgame. Otherwise EK 8 and the rest in War Wizard gives you war magic to spell arrow + attack instead of just relying on extra attack, plus potentially an extra ASI.

    Edit: An alternative is doubling down on the one shot and grabbing AT rogue levels after a dip in War Mage, adding sneak attack to your spell bowshot and all the other tricks rogues get. But you already have an AT so maybe stepping on toes.
    Last edited by Kane0; 2018-01-02 at 05:57 PM.
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Eldritch archer help

    I think I like the war EK 8/WW 12 concept, that would give me the war magic/spell arrow combo, 5 more ASI, 6 level spells(and 7 level slot if my math is correct), which means I can still get 20 int, sharpshooter,res(wis), and one more ASI to have fun with (possibly a skill of some kind)

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Eldritch archer help

    Quote Originally Posted by Calivar View Post
    Hello world!

    I am currently a fifth level eldritch knight(the last level isn't set in stone yet) in a campaign where the main concept is restoring the world from a zombie infestation. My party contains a UA ranger (who racks up the damage hard core) a arcane trickster(sneaky mc-steal/scout), a bloodsworn (a home-brew that is pure tank basically) a cleric of life (who is surprisingly effective in melee) and a transmutation wizard (whose attendance is sporadic) in addition to me. RP wise I am the captain of the party, who are an elite militia. I am loving magic, especially being creative with it, and we already have a lot of damage on the team, granted I am about to start picking up speed. I have a magic bow that allows me to cast spells through it, basically old style arcane archer. I am thinking about taking a war-wizard dip, but wondering how far I should go. I realize that my attacks will probably be my best source of damage, which makes attack magic a bit more lackluster, but I love spells like grease and fog cloud that I can get creative with. My stats are

    str-13
    dex-20
    con-14
    wis-12
    int-16
    char-10

    feats taken=war-caster

    yes, the stats are high, we used an elite array (it is a HARD campaign, we just finished fighting a kraken)

    TL;DR I am an eldritch knight/archer who can cast spells through his arrows. I want more magic, how far into wizard do I go?
    Hi!
    Quick disclaimer: i'm unfamiliar with Wizard War School.
    Now for question, I'd say it really depends on the kind of magic you use.
    If you go for debuffs, I'd really urge you to wait until you get Eldricht Strike then consider Wizard as mainly a way to get more slots quickly: it's really making you great at applying debuffs if you already had a decent or good INT, which is your case. You could seriously turn tides once you got it running.

    If you primarily want an alternative to plain weapon attacks in AOE, go Evoker Wizard up to 5 after you get Extra Attack then do whatever you want.

    If you mainly want weapon buffs, I'd suggest picking Resilient Wisdom then grab Cleric for Bless/Divine Favor, unless War Magic gives Elemental Weapon in addition to Magic Weapon (decent one, but less useful than Cleric ones imo) in that case start Wizard as early as you want (after Extra Attack though) and go at least up to Wizard 9 (upcast Elemental Weapon).

    Have fun ;)

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    Kane0's Avatar

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    Default Re: Eldritch archer help

    Good point there, in theory EK 10 will provide disadvantage on any save spell you cast through your bow, which is pretty impressive. 10 levels of Wiz on top of that leaves you with 13th level casting, still enough for 7th level spell slots and 5 ASIs.

    Still, once EK 7 comes around Firebolt/Ray of Frost/Booming Blade Arrow plus bonus arrow is pretty solid at will damage, especially with archery fighting style. Everything else is gravy, and you can switch to save cantrips like Thunderclap or Toll the Dead at level 10 which will carry disadvantage.

    Plus all the lovely levelled spells you could cast through your bow. If the spell happens before the weapon damage, Hold Person would be killer.
    Last edited by Kane0; 2018-01-02 at 07:30 PM.
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Eldritch archer help

    I am really liking the idea of using level 10 EK features, as well as some debuff/CC spells. I am wondering if I should go 10 EK/10WW or go for my next extra attack from fighter which would bring me to 11/9. also, being able to pick up good debuff spells will be important. I think the cantrip arrow combo will help out for quite some time, I'm just wondering if it will hold up late game. granted, sharpshooter will help that out. 10/10 would get me 4 more ASI, 5 level spells (possibly sixth do to some very strange wording shenanigans with EK spell selection)7th level slot. I am wondering how I should go about this now. should I go straight to 10th fighter? or should I sprinkle some wizard in earlier to keep level 11 from being such a letdown. (first level spells, yippee!)

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    Kane0's Avatar

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    Default Re: Eldritch archer help

    If you're going with the War Magic approach extra attacks won't help you, and the ranger will likely outperform you in raw damage once swift quiver comes online, perhaps sooner. Your automatically scaling cantrip damage combined with two arrows will keep you relevant on the damage front if not at the top, your best asset will be reliably applying debuffs and the like while still putting out damage. With only one or two shots sharpshooter -5/+10 may or may not help much, but ignoring cover and long range disadvantage is worth it.
    Your choice whether 2 or more wizard is better for you in the short term than disadvantage against your spells, or even the bonus action shot after casting. I'd go with 10 fighter then 10 wizard personally, but thats me. Bascially you just want to make sure you don't fall behind at levels 5, 11 and 17.
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Eldritch archer help

    Quote Originally Posted by Calivar View Post
    I am really liking the idea of using level 10 EK features, as well as some debuff/CC spells. I am wondering if I should go 10 EK/10WW or go for my next extra attack from fighter which would bring me to 11/9. also, being able to pick up good debuff spells will be important. I think the cantrip arrow combo will help out for quite some time, I'm just wondering if it will hold up late game. granted, sharpshooter will help that out. 10/10 would get me 4 more ASI, 5 level spells (possibly sixth do to some very strange wording shenanigans with EK spell selection)7th level slot. I am wondering how I should go about this now. should I go straight to 10th fighter? or should I sprinkle some wizard in earlier to keep level 11 from being such a letdown. (first level spells, yippee!)
    I'd honestly say get the 3rd Attack for four main reasons:
    - Chances are you will eventually run out of slots in the biggest days. When that time comes, a +33% increase of attack potential every turn is nothing to sneese at.
    - If you plan on being a single-target controller (Hold), it means one more chance to make a hit and ensure you enable Eldricht Strike.
    - If you plan on being a multi-target controller (Slow/Fear), it means you can (with luck obviously) impose disadvantage on a third target with the same Attack.
    - Lvl 10 Wizard does bring you a few more spell known (but you should have plenty enough to use as it is), but no higher level spells, "only" War Wizard 10 feature.

    With that said, as I pointed out, I do not know the War Wizard archetype. So the level 10 feature may be worth the 3rd attack sacrifice... Could you plz summarize what War 10 brings?

    EDIT: Actually, could you plz remind what are the different benefits of the War archetype? The only thing I remember is that he can use reaction to add some bonus to a save or AC IIRC...
    Last edited by Citan; 2018-01-03 at 06:21 AM.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Eldritch archer help

    I believe Level 10 WW gives arcane surge, basically you get to add half the wizard level to the damage of a spell. not sure though. Sorry for the late replies, currently on vacation, so quite busy. I am not completely familiar with WW either. I am mostly going from hearsay on this point.

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    Default Re: Eldritch archer help

    I'd certainly take one more level of Eldritch Knight. After that, veering into Wizard isn't a bad idea. War Wizard is decent, but you might at at Abjurer, too-- it's real good at keeping you from getting too squishy.
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  14. - Top - End - #14
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Eldritch archer help

    I stand corrected, ww 10 gives bonus to saves and ac when concentrating on a spell. not bad at all. I like a lot, granted, would probably be getting this at level 20, which is late.

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