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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Telonius's Avatar

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    Default Re: Players are unhappy with my build

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordaedil View Post
    Are there multiple Revnanent blade classes or something? My resource says something about being an elf. Exotic weapon master requiring rage and something like 3 exotic weapon proficiencies, which seems odd.
    Looks like there's a Pathfinder homebrew here (given the "stealth" skill and odd named feats).

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Players are unhappy with my build

    Quote Originally Posted by theboss View Post
    There's also alot spellcasting classes and PrC on a ban. He wants balanced characters, not broken ones. It is not fun and i agree.
    Getting pounce at level 1 is broken. If I had it. I could 1 shot the tarrasque at level 15.
    Also frienzed Beserker is also a broken class that can 1 vs 1 every melee character in d&d 3.5.
    Unless Natural Spell is banned, you can still break anything with a single-classed Druid build. It's that strong of a class. Frenzied Berserker is one of the few good melee prestige classes in 3.5. Most of the others just give limited spellcasting (Runescarred Berserker/Champion of Gwynharwyf (sp?) for Barbarians, Sword of the Arcane Order for Rangers).
    Damage is not end-all, be-all - it's certainly nice to oneshot anything on a charge, but you can't charge everything or even deal with most problems through straight HP damage. However, if your campaign only requires damage from you to succeed - then disregard whatever I said before this sentence :)
    Elezen Dark Knight avatar by Linklele
    Favourite classes: Beguiler, Scout, Warblade, 3.5 Warlock, Harbinger (PF:PoW).
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Nifft's Avatar

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    Default Re: Players are unhappy with my build

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    @theboss:

    Mechanics. Yeah. But you still haven't told us one bit about what and who your character actually is.
    Note the thread title -- the other players apparently are not complaining about the character's personality, only about the build.

    Therefore, the poster is here talking about the build.

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Players are unhappy with my build

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    Note the thread title -- the other players apparently are not complaining about the character's personality, only about the build.

    Therefore, the poster is here talking about the build.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ignimortis View Post
    However, if your campaign only requires damage from you to succeed - then disregard whatever I said before this sentence :)
    Hello everyone, I happen to be one of the players in theboss' group. This has turned to a build advice thread, as said by the first quote it was supposed to be about the character's personality in role-playing.
    Since I have no problem with his role play (only with the fact that I'm a 17th level full cleric with 30 WIS score and a lower will save that my fellow Multi-class friend here [jk I am strong enough in other aspects]) I can say that I understand, as objectively as possible, where other players can get confused.
    After I saw theboss' explanation through his backstory and reasoning after IC incidents, I see his character in a new light. Because we mostly handle the campaign's storyline more than in game roleplaying (we have a lot on our plate in many different places in the world), the continuity and character development beyond our own characters' can be blurred.
    As for the second qoute, he is our main and best damage output character. I am a full Cleric of Wee Jas (for lack of an arcane spellcaster), we had a Bear Barbarian that now plays a full Druid (both more battle control oriented rather that damage) and a sort of Psy-worrior (he is an NPC ally played by the DM) that is part utility part damage.
    So in conclusion, thank you all for the build thread but that wasn't the case. I'm sure the group will get the advancements of theboss' character better now.
    P.S-The Revenant Blade is from Player's Guide to Eberron
    Last edited by karinrin55; 2018-01-04 at 04:29 PM.
    "If ever in doubt, roll sense motive (Or knowledge)"- Me

    And also 78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

    Too many background ideas, too little characters

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Nifft's Avatar

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    Default Re: Players are unhappy with my build

    Revenant Blade always seemed like a poor imitation of the ToB's Eternal Blade, which you can get into as an Elf with either Warblade 10 or Crusader 10.

    It's very similar in flavor, at least, though the Eternal Blade seems stronger due to advancing maneuvers.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Remuko's Avatar

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    Default Re: Players are unhappy with my build

    Quote Originally Posted by karinrin55 View Post
    Hello everyone, I happen to be one of the players in theboss' group. This has turned to a build advice thread, as said by the first quote it was supposed to be about the character's personality in role-playing.
    Since I have no problem with his role play (only with the fact that I'm a 17th level full cleric with 30 WIS score and a lower will save that my fellow Multi-class friend here [jk I am strong enough in other aspects]) I can say that I understand, as objectively as possible, where other players can get confused.
    After I saw theboss' explanation through his backstory and reasoning after IC incidents, I see his character in a new light. Because we mostly handle the campaign's storyline more than in game roleplaying (we have a lot on our plate in many different places in the world), the continuity and character development beyond our own characters' can be blurred.
    As for the second qoute, he is our main and best damage output character. I am a full Cleric of Wee Jas (for lack of an arcane spellcaster), we had a Bear Barbarian that now plays a full Druid (both more battle control oriented rather that damage) and a sort of Psy-worrior (he is an NPC ally played by the DM) that is part utility part damage.
    So in conclusion, thank you all for the build thread but that wasn't the case. I'm sure the group will get the advancements of theboss' character better now.
    P.S-The Revenant Blade is from Player's Guide to Eberron
    Here have a link for good mesure: *scrubbed*
    You might want to remove that link at the bottom of your post. Im pretty sure thats not an authorized site and posting links to forbidden material can get you in trouble.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Players are unhappy with my build

    The OP is asking for help with solving a social issue with his fellow gamers, not a build. Weather his build is optimized or not is not the question. Mr cleric ( Karinrin55) , you might be wondering why he has a better will save...He might ask why you can cast MIRACLE. You have a teir 1 class at the top end of power. You can solve basically any issues your team has. You need almost zero system mastery to get this, he focused on a build that gives him better saves, and a few toolbox tricks. He clearly can charge and do damage. At level 17, that should not be the only challenges you face. Flying Dragon ? Hoard of 1,000 goblins ? Find the magic gem in a pile of thousands of gems? Get across the planet in less then 6 months ? There are about a million things you do better then him. Point at someone and say "die" ?
    As to the question about his personality, I feel that's pure bull****. My personal career is a crazy patchwork. I still have a solid personality, with friends I have maintained for over 37 years, I have been married for 21 years, yet a review of my work history would look crazy to you. Its a GAME, played for fun. If his build is not illegal by the house rules of the DM, then questions about his motivations are pure bull****. Imagine if I was in your game and complained about your devotion to your god ? "Why do you worship XXX?" He's a bad god, or an unworthy one" That would be insulting, and pointless.
    In real life I have Owned a Pizza Shop, Owned a Liquor Store, Owned a Carwash, been a corporate manager... but only found real satisfaction as a professional cosplayer. I build giant robots for a living. I went to collage for economics and psychology, I am about as unoptimised as you could get. Also, I have achieved success in my chosen field...Questions about my personality and motivations could never be answered by an outside view of my job history. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: Players are unhappy with my build

    Quote Originally Posted by Epic Legand View Post
    Mr cleric ( Karinrin55) , you might be wondering why he has a better will save...He might ask why you can cast MIRACLE. You have a teir 1 class at the top end of power. You can solve basically any issues your team has. You need almost zero system mastery to get this, he focused on a build that gives him better saves, and a few toolbox tricks. He clearly can charge and do damage.across the planet in less then 6 months ? There are about a million things you do better then him. Point at someone and say "die" ?
    First of all Ms. Cleric, no hard feelings it's hard to tell in a forum.
    Second of all, as I said in my own comment I was just kidding about the will save, no need to bash me. I am well aware of my strong points and how and why they differ from theboss', he has high saving throws because he is incapable of casting appropriate spell to negate the situation in which he has to use them. Both our characters benefit the team in different aspects of gameplay, whether in or out of combat.
    Thirdly (don't know if that's a thing), the fact that a full cleric has a lot of power in such late stages of the game doesn't affect the point. We are both strong in our own way, I cannot hold a candle against theboss' 1v1 damage and he cannot hope to be as versatile and control a battlefield (other than by clearing it) as effectively as I do. We compliment each other and complete one another with strengthening our team so it can reach an end goal. Plus, playing a full spellcaster at such a high level isn't as simple as you make it. Both me and the Druid spend hours in search of spells that would make us both effective and versatile enough to fit in any situation. And because I immensely enjoy playing a full divine caster doesn't mean I do not appreciate or even enjoy playing a multiclass character with other abilities every once in a while, just not this campaign.
    Lastly, I didn't have a problem with his characteristics from the start and explained why others might have concerns. I also mentioned how he solved the argument by giving specific reasoning behind all the different classes with in-game events that changed his character's POV on the world and of himself.
    "If ever in doubt, roll sense motive (Or knowledge)"- Me

    And also 78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

    Too many background ideas, too little characters

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Nifft's Avatar

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    Default Re: Players are unhappy with my build

    Hello Ms. Cleric, just my opinion but Wee Jas is an awesome god.

    Quote Originally Posted by karinrin55 View Post
    Thirdly (don't know if that's a thing), the fact that a full cleric has a lot of power in such late stages of the game doesn't affect the point. We are both strong in our own way, I cannot hold a candle against theboss' 1v1 damage and he cannot hope to be as versatile and control a battlefield (other than by clearing it) as effectively as I do. We compliment each other and complete one another with strengthening our team so it can reach an end goal. Plus, playing a full spellcaster at such a high level isn't as simple as you make it. Both me and the Druid spend hours in search of spells that would make us both effective and versatile enough to fit in any situation. And because I immensely enjoy playing a full divine caster doesn't mean I do not appreciate or even enjoy playing a multiclass character with other abilities every once in a while, just not this campaign.
    There's an amazing Druid guide here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...Druid-Handbook -- it has a good spell list discussion section.

    I don't personally know much about Cleric optimization but I do know that they appear to be amazingly strong when properly built. Have you checked here for Cleric handbooks? http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=399.0

    Also, Wee Jas has a really strong prestige class in ToB, which might be fun for a future character: Crusader / Cleric / Ruby Knight Vindicator


    Quote Originally Posted by karinrin55 View Post
    Lastly, I didn't have a problem with his characteristics from the start and explained why others might have concerns. I also mentioned how he solved the argument by giving specific reasoning behind all the different classes with in-game events that changed his character's POV on the world and of himself.
    Cool.

    So... he's been directed here to the forum to ask us stuff, and now you're here too.

    Was there anything we haven't yet answered in a satisfactory way?

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    MaxiDuRaritry's Avatar

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    Default Re: Players are unhappy with my build

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia: Leonardo da Vinci
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    Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci (Italian: [leoˈnardo di ˌsɛr ˈpjɛːro da (v)ˈvintʃi] (About this sound listen); 15 April 1452 2 May 1519), more commonly Leonardo da Vinci or simply Leonardo, was an Italian Renaissance polymath whose areas of interest included invention, painting, sculpting, architecture, science, music, mathematics, engineering, literature, anatomy, geology, astronomy, botany, writing, history, and cartography. He has been variously called the father of palaeontology, ichnology, and architecture, and is widely considered one of the greatest painters of all time. Sometimes credited with the inventions of the parachute, helicopter and tank,he epitomised the Renaissance humanist ideal.

    Many historians and scholars regard Leonardo as the prime exemplar of the "Universal Genius" or "Renaissance Man", an individual of "unquenchable curiosity" and "feverishly inventive imagination", and he is widely considered one of the most diversely talented individuals ever to have lived. According to art historian Helen Gardner, the scope and depth of his interests were without precedent in recorded history, and "his mind and personality seem to us superhuman, while the man himself mysterious and remote". Marco Rosci notes that while there is much speculation regarding his life and personality, his view of the world was logical rather than mysterious, and that the empirical methods he employed were unorthodox for his time.

    Born out of wedlock to a notary, Piero da Vinci, and a peasant woman, Caterina, in Vinci in the region of Florence, Leonardo was educated in the studio of the renowned Florentine painter Andrea del Verrocchio. Much of his earlier working life was spent in the service of Ludovico il Moro in Milan. He later worked in Rome, Bologna and Venice, and he spent his last years in France at the home awarded to him by Francis I of France.

    Leonardo was, and is, renowned primarily as a painter. Among his works, the Mona Lisa is the most famous and most parodied portrait and The Last Supper the most reproduced religious painting of all time. Leonardo's drawing of the Vitruvian Man is also regarded as a cultural icon, being reproduced on items as varied as the euro coin, textbooks, and T-shirts.

    A painting by Leonardo, Salvator Mundi, sold for a world record $450.3 million at a Christie's auction in New York, 15 November 2017, the highest price ever paid for a work of art. Perhaps fifteen of his paintings have survived. Nevertheless, these few works, together with his notebooks, which contain drawings, scientific diagrams, and his thoughts on the nature of painting, compose a contribution to later generations of artists rivalled only by that of his contemporary, Michelangelo.

    Leonardo is revered for his technological ingenuity. He conceptualised flying machines, a type of armoured fighting vehicle, concentrated solar power, an adding machine, and the double hull. Relatively few of his designs were constructed or even feasible during his lifetime, as the modern scientific approaches to metallurgy and engineering were only in their infancy during the Renaissance. Some of his smaller inventions, however, such as an automated bobbin winder and a machine for testing the tensile strength of wire, entered the world of manufacturing unheralded. A number of Leonardo's most practical inventions are nowadays displayed as working models at the Museum of Vinci. He made substantial discoveries in anatomy, civil engineering, geology, optics, and hydrodynamics, but he did not publish his findings and they had no direct influence on later science.
    Can we then assume Leonardo da Vinci was a was a poor, confused, schizophrenic man lost in a big world?

    I have a level 21 gestalt character with 39 classes altogether -- only one class has more than one level, and it has three. He's a Renaissance Man. He does a LOT of stuff, and he's quite good at all of it. He's not schizophrenic; he's talented.
    Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2018-01-04 at 10:00 PM.
    Have you accepted the Flying Spaghetti Monster as your Lord and Savior? If so, add this to your signature!

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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Players are unhappy with my build

    Quote Originally Posted by theboss View Post
    I've been waiting for this question :
    Fighter 2, Ranger 2, Exotic weapon master 1( complete warrior), Revenant Blade 5( ebberon), Hexblade 3(complete warrior), crusader 3(tome of battle), Swordsage 1 (ToB)

    Why I use each class:
    Fighter-for 2 extra neccesry feats.
    Ranger- for two weapon fighting
    Exotic weapon master- for uncanny blow.
    Revenant blade- for legendary force, but mainly all the class features are awesome.
    Hexblade- for mettle and better saves.
    Crusader and swordage- as someone already stated, to get more tricks in battle. Unpredictable.
    What I'm seeing here is that you're playing a Revenant Blade- that's the one that gets the most attention in your description. Since it's a prestige class, you can call yourself a Revenant Blade no matter what the rest of your build is. This Revenant Blade happens to be a dabbler in exotic and supernatural fighting styles.

    Of course as a 5 level prestige class, if you're not playing in Eberron then the title of Revenant Blade doesn't really mean much, and since it can't take the majority of your levels it won't look like the major focus to anyone not familiar with it.

    I would suggest explaining it in those terms: Revenant Blade is a ranger-ish class and you wanted a bit more fighting than pure ranger, so you entered as fighter/ranger with a level of exotic weapon master because you could, then once you finished Revenant Blade you started dabbling in more supernatural combat styles. The widly different mechanics clearly mark the character out as a dabbler of some sort, no amount of finagling can dispel that, but there's no disconnect when you start dabbling after becoming a master of your primary goal (Revenant Blade).


    However, noticing that one of the other players has posted and mentioned your will save is improbably high- I would seriously recommend you get your DM to enact proper multiclassing rules for base saves. The starting +2 applying multiple times is basically a bug and you know perfectly well that you don't need inflated saves to make up for the rest of your build when you're not losing any BAB and all of your combat stuff synergizes perfectly.
    Last edited by Fizban; 2018-01-04 at 11:04 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    sheer awesomeness

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Players are unhappy with my build

    karinrin55, sorry if I came across as to aggressive. I may be overly sensitive as I too have had to explain my builds on more then one occasion. Not because they were illegal, but because one member of our group feels multiclassing is "bad", or unfair. As his preference is teir 1 casters, I may have projected a bit.

  13. - Top - End - #43
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: Players are unhappy with my build

    Epic Legand
    All good man, I understand your sensibility. It's hard being a multiclass character.
    No hard feelings.
    But some people prefer something simpler, something that isn't so hard to optimize.
    I am the "noob" of our group (even though I have been playing for more than 5 years now) and it's hard for me to optimize multiclass characters so I go simple, one versatile class per campaign until I feel confident enough to build a strong multiclass one.
    "If ever in doubt, roll sense motive (Or knowledge)"- Me

    And also 78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

    Too many background ideas, too little characters

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