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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default using pact weapons as a scam

    my character is a rogue/warlock, i was thinking of having my character go in disguise and sell a valuable pact weapon and then summon it much later. is there any thing that would make such a scam obvious?

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    my character is a rogue/warlock, i was thinking of having my character go in disguise and sell a valuable pact weapon and then summon it much later. is there any thing that would make such a scam obvious?
    The DM deciding you did it right in view of the store-owner would be a pretty dead giveaway.
    Also given that it's pretty easy to pull off, the store-owner in question might have seen it happen before.
    It's time for a preemptive retaliatory strike.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    Quote Originally Posted by SociopathFriend View Post
    The DM deciding you did it right in view of the store-owner would be a pretty dead giveaway.
    Also given that it's pretty easy to pull off, the store-owner in question might have seen it happen before.
    ok, so i have to pass probably a disguise check, and a bluff?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    It’s probably workable but reasonably high risk, given that the weapon vanishes if more than five feet away from you for a minute or more. Anyone willing to spend a large sum on a valuable weapon will likely want to do more than have you lay it on the counter and glance it over.

    It’s a reasonable thing to try, but it’s one of those things that should be played out in full and I just wouldn’t expect it to necessarily be quick or easy. Among other things they’ll probably notice when it vanishes less than a minute after you leave.
    Last edited by Flashy; 2018-01-03 at 03:56 PM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe dirt View Post
    my character is a rogue/warlock, i was thinking of having my character go in disguise and sell a valuable pact weapon and then summon it much later. is there any thing that would make such a scam obvious?
    In my game I would say go for it, but like all scams, be prepared for eventual fallout.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    It's also worth saying that you're using your patron granted soul bound weapon to scam people for likely petty cash (as others have said, if you're trying a large scale scam you're probably going to want more than a minute to get away).

    It takes a particular type of person to think its a good idea to repeatedly barter away parts of their soul (though given that is a warlock thing) but your patron might take rather a dim view of it.

    That all said, crack on

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    You’re better off using the eldritch knight’s weapon bond-you can let the weapon chill for as long as you want before bringing it back to you-as long as you and it stay in the same plane of existence.
    Last edited by Arelai; 2018-01-03 at 05:12 PM.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Contrast View Post
    It's also worth saying that you're using your patron granted soul bound weapon to scam people for likely petty cash (as others have said, if you're trying a large scale scam you're probably going to want more than a minute to get away).

    It takes a particular type of person to think its a good idea to repeatedly barter away parts of their soul (though given that is a warlock thing) but your patron might take rather a dim view of it.

    That all said, crack on
    It's particularly worth saying that what you're saying here isn't part of the description of the Pact Weapon at all. "your otherworldly patron bestows a gift upon you for your loyal service." is all.
    Nor is there any requirement of soul-selling as a warlock.

    It's like people don't read this stuff and just make up whatever instead. I suppose that's fine in your game but there's no reason to apply it to anyone else.
    Last edited by rbstr; 2018-01-03 at 05:21 PM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Arelai View Post
    You’re better off using the eldritch knight’s weapon bond-you can let the weapon chill for as long as you want before bringing it back to you-as long as you and it stay in the same plane of existence.
    I have a friend who became obsessed with doing this with his EK. Any opportunity he had to barter he tried to sell a weapon

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Contrast View Post
    It's also worth saying that you're using your patron granted soul bound weapon to scam people for likely petty cash (as others have said, if you're trying a large scale scam you're probably going to want more than a minute to get away).

    It takes a particular type of person to think its a good idea to repeatedly barter away parts of their soul (though given that is a warlock thing) but your patron might take rather a dim view of it.
    I mean, these same patrons are generally okay with their warlocks killing people and stealing their belongings. If anything, this kind of scamming is more ethical than the status quo.

    Also the core ones are cosmic manifestations of evil, or inscrutable trickster-spirits, or are unknowable super-beings whose very presence will stamp out humanity. I'd think that their own willingness to see harm inflicted on mortals far exceeds simple property crime. I could see the argument if the patron was a deity with a strong focus on respecting property or following the laws of men, but I don't see it for fiends, fey, or great old ones.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    It does mention that your pact weapon will probably have a rather distinctive appearance, so it might be difficult to sell and someone who deals with warlocks fairly often might realize what you're trying to pull.
    If I don't say that I'm shouting, please don't feel like I'm shouting at you.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    Couldn't you just create a different weapon each time? I say this because your DM could try to create a rumor among weapon buyers about a particular weapon that vanishes. The Pact of the Blade entry says nothing about your choice being permanent

    Get the Disguise Self invocation, sell your pact weapon, walk away and remove disguise self while out of view?
    Last edited by TheBaron; 2018-01-03 at 07:07 PM.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    Most traders I've come across (the times I've asked) have either the Identfy spell or some other way of identifying magic items.
    I don't know specifically if that would identify a pact weapon as such, but it seems logical it would be a pretty likely result.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    Any trader of magic worth their salt will know about this and make a seller sit quietly about 20' away from the weapon for several minutes before payment, with a few bodyguards sitting back.

    Preferably, it's in a waiting room with a portcullis that can slam down when the weapon disappears. A caller is also waiting outside to fetch the city guards. The portcullis has nice wide slots for guards to toss in a few Thunderstones or stab with pole-arms if the 'seller' gets a bit frisky.

    Remember, Arcana skill is a thing, and sellers of magic items can know stuff.
    I swear, 1 handed quarterstaves are 5e's spiked chain. - Rainbownaga
    The Warlock is Faust: the Musical: The Class. - toapat

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    LeonBH's Avatar

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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    Your pact weapon disappears a minute after being more than 5ft away from you.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    DM: You walk down the street feeling good for yourself when the merchant appears behind you calling you a thief. A comotion occurs and several town guard start heading in your direction. You see a robed figure with them. He addresses you:

    'Halt. We need to speak to you for questioning'

    What do you do?

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    DM: You walk down the street feeling good for yourself when the merchant appears behind you calling you a thief. A comotion occurs and several town guard start heading in your direction. You see a robed figure with them. He addresses you:

    'Halt. We need to speak to you for questioning'

    What do you do?
    If I'm so bad at this that at the 60 second mark I'm not only still within earshot, and not in disguise, but the cops already have my appearance and are in my face, I frankly deserve to be run out of town.

    Then I use my magical powers to elude the guards, update my disguise once I'm safe, promise to be a little faster next time, and earnestly get on with whatever the GM actually had planned for this session.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    If you have tools to back it up (Performance, Deception, Insight... these kind of skills)... you can sell it for sums that'll grow on and on. You might get caught by local guards.

    It's a call... you can easily be a Cleric of the Forge and buff your weapon through your Domain feature and scam them even further if you wanted to pull this kind of ''Charlatan'' con.

    Charlatan would be an awesome background, becoming a freaking Warlock because you needed money to fullfill your dark needs addiction, something crazy.

    Dip 1 level in Forge Cleric and just have it be enchanted magically. Live on that lie forever and be the rich Warlock who sold his Pact Weapon. You could even pick the feat Actor, and make up different disguise. The feat will help you pull the trick even further (advantage for fooling them if they believe you're an actual junkie that needs to get rid of this sword for a pinch of gold, as an example).

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    Weapon Merchant: "This is an amazing blade. Masterwork quality. The sharpness is indeed magical. I can offer 750 gold pieces for the blade. Or I can auction it. You might get 1010, minus my ten percent, but it will take about a week. Gold On hand then? Excellent. Just one more test." Places the blade inside a bag of holding.Where it promptly ceases to exist. "Whelp, you're on the black list now. Don't suppose you'll surrender? I do so hate conmen and thieves..." Grabs an axe off the wall.


    Aaaand...now you're weaponless, under attack, and very unloved by the city's merchantmen.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    This thread has reminded me that every shop keeper is a high level wizard who makes enough money to trap his business and keep an armed force on call and all guards in the world are from ES:Oblivion

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    Small town merchants may not want to pay a hefty sum for a magical sword anyway. It's simple business ownership. You're doing good just selling weapons & tools in bulk, to people whom you know. Why would you spend 90%, or even 50% of your budget to buy something you don't know how fast you can cash out?

    This is not advanced economics, by the way. Even the dumbest vendor would have this much common sense after a few years.

    Big city? They're going to have Identify or something similar.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBaron View Post
    This thread has reminded me that every shop keeper is a high level wizard who makes enough money to trap his business and keep an armed force on call and all guards in the world are from ES:Oblivion
    Eh, better than ADOM, where every merchant is very high leveled and can kill you by throwing coins at you.
    Last edited by Cespenar; 2018-01-04 at 05:05 AM.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    Having sold enlarged gold coins (don't ask), summoned items, the party druid shapechanged as a horse and more which we promised to never speak again...
    I'd say start small... a powerful magical weapon will require finding the right buyer who may have seen it all before.
    Fancy blade ? Not so much. You might not get thousands of gold for it, but even 2× or 3× what a normal sword costs is still something, and you're less likely to get caught or attract the wrong kind of ppl

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
    Small town merchants may not want to pay a hefty sum for a magical sword anyway. It's simple business ownership. You're doing good just selling weapons & tools in bulk, to people whom you know. Why would you spend 90%, or even 50% of your budget to buy something you don't know how fast you can cash out?

    This is not advanced economics, by the way. Even the dumbest vendor would have this much common sense after a few years.

    Big city? They're going to have Identify or something similar.



    Eh, better than ADOM, where every merchant is very high leveled and can kill you by throwing coins at you.
    All of the scenarios given so far just sounds like people don't want a player to have a little fun. Why would I go to the biggest merchant in town, trying to get 1k gold for a single weapon. Find the guy who's buying your weapons in bulk, throw in the pact weapon for an extra handful of gold, then leave. Or if your dm tries to kill for trying to have some fun, you probably shouldn't playing with that dm

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    like most crimes it really comes down to this:
    A-most experienced (i.e. those with the money to make the con worthwhile) merchants will likely have seen it or something like it before.
    B-the crime isn't nearly as clever as those attempting it think it is.
    C-could you get away with it under the right conditions (a crowded bazaar on a busy day) sure. but not likely very many times before people catch on.
    D-And the whole 5'/1 minute limit on a pact blade being out of your possession hurts the con a lot. IN combat, 1 minute is a long time. OUTSIDE of combat, even as a head start to escape, 1 minute is next to nothing.

    basically the entire con comes down to being an a-hole for either very little profit and/or very high risk. Its going to fail the career con-artist's litmus test of drive/risk/reward.
    Rule 0: What the DM says goes.
    Rule 0.5: What the DM says goes. And if the DM says enough dumb **** the players go too.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: using pact weapons as a scam

    I think you should ask your DM how Identify and examination (meaning use of Arcana skill) interacts with Pact weapons, and if it'd identify it as such.
    That seems a reasonable thing to ask OOC, or it's something you and your party could test IC if it's rare knowledge.

    Also have your character research how merchants react and guard against such scams (or just ask the DM, if you think they'd tell you.) You could impersonate a guard or banker, telling a merchant (in a town you don't plan to con) that there are rumors of a conman selling fake magic items, and asking what measures they use to prevent it. Probably ask about illusions or spells that somehow confuse Identify, but listen for what would impact your pact weapon. That way, you don't bring suspicion particularly towards pact weapons, but you will likely hear what might disrupt your plans. It seems reasonable that a merchant in a neighboring city would have similar defenses.

    Lastly (but do this first), talk to your DM if doing this is appropriate or not. In 5e, having gold matters a lot less than earlier editions (assuming no magic item economy, outside of rare sells to wealthy collectors), so it is reasonable it is okay, but a DM that doesn't want 'wealth by level' disrupted or a big wealth disparity in the party might want to veto it OOC. In a game I was in, the DM ruled that pact weapons and Eldritch Knight's bound weapons were detectable via Identify, so that precluded such cons. Pretty to clear it ahead of time instead of you feeling frustrated and the DM feeling annoyed in-game.

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