Star Wars Saga Thread IV: A New Hope

[Blackhawk748]

The last thread has lapsed sadly, and i noticed an upswing in Star Wars based questions, so i thought i'd reawaken the thread.

Is this thread only for Saga Edition?
No. While that is it's primary function, im sure there are people in here who have played the other editions who would be happy to help. Just be clear when you're asking about a non-Saga thing.

Previous Threads:
Saga Edition Thread III: Saga Academy

Helpful Links
Saga Edition Errata
The OmegaDex (has the page number and book for everything in Saga)
More Errata

May the Force be with you.

[Blackhawk748]

So, to get this thread rolling, heres a build i came up with for a Force Sensitive Human Bounty Hunter:

Spoiler

Show

Adalo Pech
Scout 3/Soldier 4/Bounty Hunter 9/ Gunslinger 4

Skills:Endurance, Initiative, Mechanics, Perception, Stealth, Survival, Use the Force

Feats
1: Force Sensitive, Armor Prof (light), Shake it Off
2:Point Blank Shot
3:Force Training (Surge x2, Negate Energy)
4:Armor Prof (Med)
5:Precise Shot
6:Deadeye
7:Vehicular Combat
9: Quick Draw
12:Far Shot
15:Force Training (Negate Energy, Inertia, Phase)
18:Force Training (Negate Energy, Surge, Inertia)

Talents
Acute Sense
Keen Shot
Armored Defense
Force Pilot
Hunters Mark
Hunter's Target
Dastardly Strike
Equilibrium
Damage Reduction 10
Debilitating Shot
Knockdown Shot

The main use of the Force is for defensive purposes or utility, as this would be played during The Dark Times, so he's gonna use powers he can BS away. Outside of that, he's a Sniper going for CT track damage.

[Beleriphon]

So, what classes are Finn, Rey, Poe and Kylo?

How would you build BB-8 using Scavengers Guide?

[Blackhawk748]

So, what classes are Finn, Rey, Poe and Kylo?

How would you build BB-8 using Scavengers Guide?

Oh joy, this came up in the last thread and it was...interesting.

Finn is a Soldier pretty much exclusively, maybe some Scoundrel in there. Honestly i dont see him do much other than "Shoot stuff" so not much for defining traits.

Rey the very typical Scout/Scoundrel/Jedi combo. You dont have to use Scoundrel, but it does open up stuff like Knack or Fools Luck for her, to help her do some of her random stuff.

Poe is probably a Scoundrel/Soldier/Ace Pilot. Focus everything on Piloting.

Kylo Jedi/Sith Apprentice.

Can't answer the BB-8 question as i havent gone through Scavengers.

[Sparx MacGyver]

So, what classes are Finn, Rey, Poe and Kylo?

How would you build BB-8 using Scavengers Guide?

BB-8 is pretty straight forward. I use Option 3: Standard chassis. Pick astromech, and swap out that walking locomotion for something else more useful to him.

Finn is straight soldier (pending anything we see in IX, maybe go scoundrel or Elite trooper?), Rey is Scout with a level or two in Jedi, Kylo is more Jedi with some Ace Pilot (he's Han's kid, and given the spin, I'll wager at least a single level), and lastly Poe is scoundrel/ace pilot/soldier mix.

Maybe I'll do a build of them later.

[Blackhawk748]

Got a question: How do i figure out how many emplacement points a ship not in Starships of the Galaxy has? I ask because im fairly certain a HWK 290 will have more than 1 point (as i think it does by SotG rules) as its a Corellian Engineering ship and they always include more space for upgrades.

[Beleriphon]

Got a question: How do i figure out how many emplacement points a ship not in Starships of the Galaxy has? I ask because im fairly certain a HWK 290 will have more than 1 point (as i think it does by SotG rules) as its a Corellian Engineering ship and they always include more space for upgrades.

Its either listed, or 1 point; 2 points if you have a Corellian vessel.

Oh joy, this came up in the last thread and it was...interesting.

Finn is a Soldier pretty much exclusively, maybe some Scoundrel in there. Honestly i dont see him do much other than "Shoot stuff" so not much for defining traits.

Rey the very typical Scout/Scoundrel/Jedi combo. You dont have to use Scoundrel, but it does open up stuff like Knack or Fools Luck for her, to help her do some of her random stuff.

Poe is probably a Scoundrel/Soldier/Ace Pilot. Focus everything on Piloting.

Kylo Jedi/Sith Apprentice.

Can't answer the BB-8 question as i havent gone through Scavengers.

I kind of missed that part, so I thought it would be fun to have a new discussion in light of the new movie. Finn is still pretty much a stormtropper in a leather jacket, although I'd tack on some elite trooper. He is pretty damn boss with that energy mace thingy.

The rest, I have to largely agree.

On that note: energy mace thingy? Stats suggestions?

[Beleriphon]

dupe post

[Blackhawk748]

Its either listed, or 1 point; 2 points if you have a Corellian vessel.


I kind of missed that part, so I thought it would be fun to have a new discussion in light of the new movie. Finn is still pretty much a stormtropper in a leather jacket, although I'd tack on some elite trooper. He is pretty damn boss with that energy mace thingy.

The rest, I have to largely agree.

On that note: energy mace thingy? Stats suggestions?

Well thats sad. Also i dont seem to see any ship ever saying that it has more Points, unless im just looking at the wrong ships.

They didn't really change all that much, just gained a few new levels. As for the mace, id say it was just a Force Pike.

[Beleriphon]

Well thats sad. Also i dont seem to see any ship ever saying that it has more Points, unless im just looking at the wrong ships.

They didn't really change all that much, just gained a few new levels. As for the mace, id say it was just a Force Pike.

The YT Series has 10 free emplacement points. Dynamic-class freighters have 6 free points. And I was wrong, the CEC ships all have 5 free points by default, unless noted otherwise.

[Blackhawk748]

The YT Series has 10 free emplacement points. Dynamic-class freighters have 6 free points. And I was wrong, the CEC ships all have 5 free points by default, unless noted otherwise.

Ya, i know where the table in SotG is, and i just noticed the CEC thing now. What iwas asking is, is there any ship not in SotG that is listed as having more EP? Cuz off hand i can't think of any.

[Beleriphon]

Ya, i know where the table in SotG is, and i just noticed the CEC thing now. What iwas asking is, is there any ship not in SotG that is listed as having more EP? Cuz off hand i can't think of any.

Not that I can think of, at least not without combing through all of the books and looking at each ship individually.

[RandomLunatic]

I'll back the majority here. Finn is a Soldier, Rey is a Scout/Jedi multiclass like her uncle, Poe is a Soldier/Scoundrel/Ace Pilot mix, and Kylo is a Jedi dipping Soldier for armored defense, possibly with Jedi Knight or Sith Apprentice levels.

Ya, i know where the table in SotG is, and i just noticed the CEC thing now. What iwas asking is, is there any ship not in SotG that is listed as having more EP? Cuz off hand i can't think of any.

There's a few. Force Unleashed's Zebra fighter has like 3 points, because it's a build your own starfighter starter kit. The Rebellion Era Campaign Guide has the Gallofree YKL-37 Nova courier, the Dunelizard fighter, and the Mobquet Medium Transport, which have 5, 3, and 10 EPs respectively.

[Blackhawk748]

I'll back the majority here. Finn is a Soldier, Rey is a Scout/Jedi multiclass like her uncle, Poe is a Soldier/Scoundrel/Ace Pilot mix, and Kylo is a Jedi dipping Soldier for armored defense, possibly with Jedi Knight or Sith Apprentice levels.

There's a few. Force Unleashed's Zebra fighter has like 3 points, because it's a build your own starfighter starter kit. The Rebellion Era Campaign Guide has the Gallofree YKL-37 Nova courier, the Dunelizard fighter, and the Mobquet Medium Transport, which have 5, 3, and 10 EPs respectively.

Neat, glad to see that they did use that.

[Pleh]

I'm no Saga grandmaster, but I think Poe would be slightly more Noble than Soldier. His whole arc in this last movie was about his leadership role, which is kind of a Noble thing as much as, "shooting stuff" is a soldier thing. So maybe Noble/Scoundrel/Ace Pilot while reaching to eventually qualify for Officer.

What level are these characters? I feel like they're maybe a level or two higher than Han, Luke, and Leia in the OT (they sure take on bigger challenges with less struggle).

BB-8 almost needs new content written. I don't recall seeing "rolling locomotion" printed for droids. Maybe his magnetic head appendage is in there somewhere?

[Blackhawk748]

I'm no Saga grandmaster, but I think Poe would be slightly more Noble than Soldier. His whole arc in this last movie was about his leadership role, which is kind of a Noble thing as much as, "shooting stuff" is a soldier thing. So maybe Noble/Scoundrel/Ace Pilot while reaching to eventually qualify for Officer.

What level are these characters? I feel like they're maybe a level or two higher than Han, Luke, and Leia in the OT (they sure take on bigger challenges with less struggle).

BB-8 almost needs new content written. I don't recall seeing "rolling locomotion" printed for droids. Maybe his magnetic head appendage is in there somewhere?

I see him as more Soldier that dipped Noble and maybe has a level of Officer. I mean, his leadership is kinda there, but throughout the entirety of TFA he was just "the pilot guy" and even in TLJ hes still more pilot than leader. So something like Soilder 4/Noble 3/Ace Pilot 3/Officer 1? I mean, we can screw with this a bit, but that should work.



I may be running a game for my group in the near future (and im not talking about my Prequel thing from the other thread) so i thought id go an resurrect some important NPCs from my last attempted Merc Sandbox. Im thinking of setting it during the Dark Times (or Unleashed era if you prefer) so i may need to modify the Imperial Officer, as originally this was set in like 6 ABY.

Admiral Velkas: Imperial Admiral in charge of Ord Grovner and the surrounding sectors. Like many Admirals he wishes to increase his standing, which is difficult on a backwater assignment such as this. To that end, he has taken to the criminal underworld to fund his various schemes as well as to steal anything he believe may help him.

Zorga the Hutt: Operates out of his palace on Andasala. He owns several legitimate mining operations that he uses to launder his spice money. Zorga was once a big shot in the Hutt Cartels, but Jabba soundly trounced him, humiliated him, and sent him on his way. Zorga has been biding his time to get his revenge.

Numa Taa: Numa Taa is a Black Sun Vigo based out of Ma'ar Shaddam. He primarily sells weapons and other illegal armaments, but he's also the king of all smuggling operations on the Sanrafsix Corridor. As such he has a palace on Kabal where he also spends a fair amount of time.

Now, all three of these fine beings are in competition with one another. Velkas is just using the black market to earn unregistered funds as well as pick up anything that will give him an edge (ie new starfighter designs, unusual weapons etc), whereas to Zorga and Numa Taa its their job, so they hate him on principle. Zorga and Taa hate each other because the other controls something that the other needs (Zorga has a bunch of raw material and Taa has the weaponsmiths) so the two smile and play nice, but they have every desire to kill each other.

[LibraryOgre]

So, what classes are Finn, Rey, Poe and Kylo?

Heroic.

(It's not a SAGA thread until I've flogged this at least once.)

[Blackhawk748]

Heroic.

(It's not a SAGA thread until I've flogged this at least once.)

Ah, glad to see we are official now.

[Pleh]

I see him as more Soldier that dipped Noble and maybe has a level of Officer. I mean, his leadership is kinda there, but throughout the entirety of TFA he was just "the pilot guy" and even in TLJ hes still more pilot than leader. So something like Soilder 4/Noble 3/Ace Pilot 3/Officer 1? I mean, we can screw with this a bit, but that should work.

I dunno. I feel like there's more scoundrel than soldier in him. He only uses pistols (reminds me more of Han than trooper), no armor, and his main weapons are talking, guile, and flying. You could do it with soldier, but it feels better as Noble/Scoundrel grabbing skillsy face traits and pilot stuff. He just doesn't seem to use much soldier specific stuff.

But hey, that classless Saga stuff looks cool. It probably would be easier to make characters match the mechanics with that stuff.

I may be running a game for my group in the near future (and im not talking about my Prequel thing from the other thread) so i thought id go an resurrect some important NPCs from my last attempted Merc Sandbox. Im thinking of setting it during the Dark Times (or Unleashed era if you prefer) so i may need to modify the Imperial Officer, as originally this was set in like 6 ABY.

Admiral Velkas: Imperial Admiral in charge of Ord Grovner and the surrounding sectors. Like many Admirals he wishes to increase his standing, which is difficult on a backwater assignment such as this. To that end, he has taken to the criminal underworld to fund his various schemes as well as to steal anything he believe may help him.

Zorga the Hutt: Operates out of his palace on Andasala. He owns several legitimate mining operations that he uses to launder his spice money. Zorga was once a big shot in the Hutt Cartels, but Jabba soundly trounced him, humiliated him, and sent him on his way. Zorga has been biding his time to get his revenge.

Numa Taa: Numa Taa is a Black Sun Vigo based out of Ma'ar Shaddam. He primarily sells weapons and other illegal armaments, but he's also the king of all smuggling operations on the Sanrafsix Corridor. As such he has a palace on Kabal where he also spends a fair amount of time.

Now, all three of these fine beings are in competition with one another. Velkas is just using the black market to earn unregistered funds as well as pick up anything that will give him an edge (ie new starfighter designs, unusual weapons etc), whereas to Zorga and Numa Taa its their job, so they hate him on principle. Zorga and Taa hate each other because the other controls something that the other needs (Zorga has a bunch of raw material and Taa has the weaponsmiths) so the two smile and play nice, but they have every desire to kill each other.

Again, it feels like you've got a great backbone to the game: what happens if the players do nothing. I get that you said, "sandbox" but I've found most sandboxes benefit by having at least an opening quest to launch from.

The characters need to have or build some relationship with these antagonists to set them adter them. It looks like a standard Fallout setup, where the players can pick a side to align with or play their own game against all factions.

If you set them up as mercs, just have their opening mission be working for one of the three factions only to be waylaid by a competitor to get them started. In a sandbox, action revolves around the party, so a revenge arc is a great way to get started. It also anchors them somewhat to your sandbox, because if they choose to cut their losses and move on, they now owe a debt to whomever they started out working for.

Starting with scum and villany's outlaw job tables will help lay a foundation for what needs to happen in each session.

For a sandbox, I'd ask the players to create backstory and character goals (and hopefully why they teamed up with other mercs) so I could plan encounters to play into their character motivations. Saga already has backgrounds and destinies that can pair with this to expand on that element.

[Blackhawk748]

Again, it feels like you've got a great backbone to the game: what happens if the players do nothing. I get that you said, "sandbox" but I've found most sandboxes benefit by having at least an opening quest to launch from.

The characters need to have or build some relationship with these antagonists to set them adter them. It looks like a standard Fallout setup, where the players can pick a side to align with or play their own game against all factions.

If you set them up as mercs, just have their opening mission be working for one of the three factions only to be waylaid by a competitor to get them started. In a sandbox, action revolves around the party, so a revenge arc is a great way to get started. It also anchors them somewhat to your sandbox, because if they choose to cut their losses and move on, they now owe a debt to whomever they started out working for.

Starting with scum and villany's outlaw job tables will help lay a foundation for what needs to happen in each session.

For a sandbox, I'd ask the players to create backstory and character goals (and hopefully why they teamed up with other mercs) so I could plan encounters to play into their character motivations. Saga already has backgrounds and destinies that can pair with this to expand on that element.

Ya, i was just getting those three tossed up there before i got much further. My current plan is to have the PCs start as slaves on Lok in a Sulfur mine. This gives them a reason to be together (slaves) and an opening mission (escape). Im not sure who im gonna have be the slavers, but i know it won't be one of the Three. Maybe just some random pirates.

[Pleh]

"Slave escape" is a great way to start, but it's not always very compatible with various backstories. That is to say, how did they wind up enslaved to begin with? If they are powerful enough to escape now, what has held them back leading up to this point? What has changed in their status quo? If they are powerful in backstory, then they probably have not been enslaved long. If they aren't, how do they acquire the means to escape when their captors presumably aren't allowing them to train into heroic classes?

I feel the best setup there is to say the PCs have more potential than most inmates, but not enough to escape on their own. They have to throw their strength together to have a chance to break free. Then, to make sure they do escape, maybe have one of the 3 main guys raid the camp looking for recruits. They can either join the recruitment (easier, puts you in debt), or use the chaos to make their own way (tougher, but leaves you more free to make your own path).

Reminds me of the start to Kotor 2. Ever play that one?

[Blackhawk748]

"Slave escape" is a great way to start, but it's not always very compatible with various backstories. That is to say, how did they wind up enslaved to begin with? If they are powerful enough to escape now, what has held them back leading up to this point? What has changed in their status quo? If they are powerful in backstory, then they probably have not been enslaved long. If they aren't, how do they acquire the means to escape when their captors presumably aren't allowing them to train into heroic classes?

I feel the best setup there is to say the PCs have more potential than most inmates, but not enough to escape on their own. They have to throw their strength together to have a chance to break free. Then, to make sure they do escape, maybe have one of the 3 main guys raid the camp looking for recruits. They can either join the recruitment (easier, puts you in debt), or use the chaos to make their own way (tougher, but leaves you more free to make your own path).

Reminds me of the start to Kotor 2. Ever play that one?

I have not, but i've seen it. Basically fortune will smile on them to give them the chance to escape. Meaning Lok's version of a Krayt dragon will attack the camp.

[Blackhawk748]

Entirely unrelated, but i've been looking at Ion weapons and...im not impressed. Seriously, they just really dont seem worth it to me, except maybe to "finish off" a vehicle with one if you want to guarantee you can claim it. Any ideas to give Ion more oomph?

[LibraryOgre]

Entirely unrelated, but i've been looking at Ion weapons and...im not impressed. Seriously, they just really dont seem worth it to me, except maybe to "finish off" a vehicle with one if you want to guarantee you can claim it. Any ideas to give Ion more oomph?

Really, they should've made the damage higher, or given ion weapons a bonus against droids/ships. As is, they are lackluster.

[Pleh]

Really, they should've made the damage higher, or given ion weapons a bonus against droids/ships. As is, they are lackluster.

...? I don't get it. They do get bonuses against droids and vehicles. I am afb, but I thought they did extra condition track steps against droids and vehicles?

[Blackhawk748]

...? I don't get it. They do get bonuses against droids and vehicles. I am afb, but I thought they did extra condition track steps against droids and vehicles?

They are basically the same as stun for normal weapons, just all the time. On top of this they are utterly useless against anything else.

[LibraryOgre]

Ion weapons do half damage of whatever is rolled. If you're not at least partially machine, that's it.

If you are partially machine, if the halved damage drops you to 0, you move 5 steps on condition tracks. Then you consider the original damage roll. If that's equal to or better than your DT, then you move 2 steps instead of 1.

So, if I've got two weapons, I should pretty much never take the ion weapon, unless it does incredible amounts of damage. A regular blaster does 3d8 damage. An ion weapon does 3d8 ion. On an average hit, you'll do about 13.5 damage. So, if you're using an ion weapon, they'll take 6.75, on average. If they're pure organic, that's it... you're slapped them instead of punched them. If they're not pure organic, they might, if you do enough damage, get knocked further down the condition track. But, that means they're still working. And still trying to kill you. Because you used an ion weapon, instead of a real weapon.

Basically, an ion weapon is only useful if you're looking at CT killing droids and cyborgs. For any other application, they're unuseful.

A better organization for them might be having an ion weapon do 2d8 damage, with a separate 2d8 damage against a droid/cyborg's condition track. So, a single shot from an ion rifle will do 2d8 (less than a standard blaster, but not so much you hate yourself for doing it), giving a possibility of moving them on the DT. If they're a droid/cyborg, roll another 2d8, and if it beats their DT, they take another condition hit. So, you might do little damage (roll low on the first roll) but still do CT movement (high on the second).

[RandomLunatic]

Ion weapons are like stun weapons for droids. They're only worth using if you can reliably beat the target's damage threshold, and you either want to CT kill it or you absolutely must subdue the target without destroying it. If not, you're just doing half damage.

What they should have done is given them boost. At least increase damage by one die type. Probably two.

Vehicle and starship ion cannons are stupendously useless because it is very hard to beat starship damage thresholds. They tend to have high STR scores, giving them natively high fort defenses, and stack on top of that a big size bonus for their damage threshold. Then there's SR and DR driving your damage down even further. The basic TIE fighter has DT 33 and DR 10, so the 4d10x2 ion cannons on a Y-wing have just over a 50-50 shot of breaching the threshold. But wait, it gets worse! Assuming you get two hits over the TIE's threshold, you now have it sitting a little under half health and at -10 on the condition track, ripe for another shot to finish the job. But if you had shot it twice with the Y-wing's lasers instead, it would be destroyed.

Bigger, tougher ships, are worse. An X-Wing has DT 46, and ignores the first 25 damage taken. So you need a 7d10x2 ion weapon to regularly beat that threshold. Colossal space transports tend to have DTs in the 70s, before shields and DR. You're not CTing any of those without a critical hit.

They're not even good for when you have to preserve the target, because you have to exceed a ship's threshold to destroy it, which we've just established is pretty hard to do. You can just pound them with lasers until they stop moving. A ship reduced to 0 HP by lasers is just as hard to repair as one reduced to 0 HP by ion cannon.

[Blackhawk748]

They're not even good for when you have to preserve the target, because you have to exceed a ship's threshold to destroy it, which we've just established is pretty hard to do. You can just pound them with lasers until they stop moving. A ship reduced to 0 HP by lasers is just as hard to repair as one reduced to 0 HP by ion cannon.

There's problem two, Ion weapons arent meant to destroy, merely temporarily render useless, so it should be easier to repair a ship heavily damaged by Ion weapons. I mean, in the EU you could totally wreck a ship with Ion shots, but it took a lot of shots

[Sparx MacGyver]

Personally, I treat ion as it is in the books, save that when you shoot shields, it acts as a shieldbuster torpedo*. Basically, if you bet the SR, you drop the shields by 10 instead of 5. Happens at character and vehicle scale. It's not huge, but it's a bit better.

Overall, Ion could be much better. Maybe doing full damage against vehicles/droids/cyborgs?