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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    Quote Originally Posted by RazorChain View Post
    I think you can do better

    Agility
    Coordination
    Dexterity
    Manual Dexterity
    Nimbleness
    Swiftness
    Speed
    Reflexes

    Then you explain in very vague terms what's the difference between the stats.
    Even better, make the skill system "gestalt" (and make sure you use the term as much as possible) and force the player to put together several of the skills for every single action they need to take. Oh, and make levels in each skill affect the levels in other skills so that when one changes, the rest also change. If they aren't taking three or more passes through their character sheet when they level, you aren't trying hard enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guizonde View Post
    dice pool mechanics with multiple dice types. my friend always ragged on shadowrun due to certain builds needing to roll 12+ d6's for attacks or evasion (something about an elf street sam? it was a long time ago). now imagine that you get a 12d6 pool, on 4+ you roll d8's for beating dr, on 3 or less you roll d4's and add the total each time. naturally, this would be an opposed roll versus successes achieved by both sides. exploding dice mechanics are in full effect, allowing you to stack and reroll successes with no hard cap. this would get very tiresome very fast, methinks.

    this is in direct response to quertus' original thread idea. it's clunky, it's slow, it serves probably very little mechanical purpose, and even if you like rolling dice, bookkeeping will become a nightmare without at least some loose-leaf paper. i've never used roll20, but i don't know if roll20 would even allow that.
    Ok, let me get this straight - you need to own fistfulls of multiple dice types, and record the results of your massive exploding rolls vs similarly horrible opposed rolls? You monster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knaight View Post
    One of the worst mechanics I've ever seen was a needlessly convoluted way of doing something simpler. In this case it was a luck roll that was basically flipping a coin (technically the success odds were 50.5%).

    This luck roll was handled with two sequential d100 rolls. The first one was rolled, and set the difficulty for the second one. Then the second one was rolled to determine success or failure. Unless that 0.5% chance was supposed to actually matter you could literally just flip a coin. The principle behind this, specifically making needlessly convoluted ways of doing something similar that are also relatively opaque in terms of probability (mathematical intuition will get you 50%, which is close, but that 50.5% involved being decent with summations) could be widely applied. Even the specifics of the double roll could be applied elsewhere, although most of the time doing that without warping the probability in actually meaningful ways will be tricky.
    I will say, this mechanic seems to remove the bias of weighted coins / dice. Although a d100 that always rolls 42 will always win...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lalliman View Post
    In addition to needlessly-specific skills, I like the idea of having stats that are so specific that you can't intuitively determine the difference. I used to run a homebrew system that had Dexterity and Agility as separate stats. It worked well, but it took some explaining before the players could consistently figure out which applied to what.

    Now imagine having Agility, Dexterity, Swiftness and Nimbleness all as separate stats on your sheet.

    Agility is your full body coordination.
    Dexterity is your fine motor skills.
    Swiftness is the speed at which you can move your body.
    Nimbleness is the flexibility of your body.

    Naturally, these different stats apply to different things, but also commonly overlap. You use Dexterity and Swiftness for attacking, but Agility and Swiftness for dodging. You use Agility and Nimbleness for climbing, in addition to one of the several strength-like stats. Sneaking uses Agility and Dexterity, and doing a back flip uses Agility, Swiftness and Nimbleness.

    Then you just add your highly-specific skill bonus from one or multiple sources, and you're good to go.
    Ah, yes, the "mother may I" add this and this and this and this fiddly bit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    Well, ok, challenge accepted. This is based on a game system that I actually own the core rules and tries to marry the swingyness of SaWo with the precision of FATE aspects.
    While I wait on the horrifying results, what's SaWo?

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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scripten View Post
    Even better, make the skill system "gestalt" (and make sure you use the term as much as possible) and force the player to put together several of the skills for every single action they need to take. Oh, and make levels in each skill affect the levels in other skills so that when one changes, the rest also change. If they aren't taking three or more passes through their character sheet when they level, you aren't trying hard enough.
    Oh, you mean The Dark Eye? (Skill checks in the dark eye are done by rolling three different attributes each against the same DC, so every check is 3d20 and you need all three to succeed.)
    And if you gaze long into an abyss, sometimes the abyss blushes and looks away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Oh, you mean The Dark Eye? (Skill checks in the dark eye are done by rolling three different attributes each against the same DC, so every check is 3d20 and you need all three to succeed.)
    That's pretty good, but let's go one step beyond and make the player calculate their own DC based off of which skills are rolled. So if you need to use skill A and skill B for a task, you would base the DC on the bonuses each of those skills give you. That way, no matter what you do to increase those bonuses, you'll never actually get better at anything. Oh, and the higher your skill bonuses, the more other skills you need to add to the skill roll.

    Just because.
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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    While I wait on the horrifying results, what's SaWo?
    The Savage Worlds game system.

    Similar to the earlier Earthdawn game system, this system uses dice instead of skill ranks. So a rookie skill would be 1d4, while a proven crack uses 1d12 for it. Now it also uses an "exploding dice" mechanic and mostly fixed target numbers, so do the math and you'll find the flaw here, as itīs often better to be "lucky than good".

    Combine that with an Aspect-based system like FATE, but with the rolls governing how "true" the aspects work.

    What you get is your "Quertus" being a tactical genius out of sheer luck (Small Unit Tactics 1d4) with pretty lackluster performance as an actual archmage (Arcana 1d12+2).

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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    The Savage Worlds game system.

    Similar to the earlier Earthdawn game system, this system uses dice instead of skill ranks. So a rookie skill would be 1d4, while a proven crack uses 1d12 for it. Now it also uses an "exploding dice" mechanic and mostly fixed target numbers, so do the math and you'll find the flaw here, as itīs often better to be "lucky than good".

    Combine that with an Aspect-based system like FATE, but with the rolls governing how "true" the aspects work.

    What you get is your "Quertus" being a tactical genius out of sheer luck (Small Unit Tactics 1d4) with pretty lackluster performance as an actual archmage (Arcana 1d12+2).
    I sometimes get the sense that developers fell in love with a dice system they thought was unique, cool, and/or fun, and didn't let the nitty-gritty "boring" mathematical effects get in the way of running with it.
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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    I sometimes get the sense that developers fell in love with a dice system they thought was unique, cool, and/or fun, and didn't let the nitty-gritty "boring" mathematical effects get in the way of running with it.
    Itīs sad, yes. Trying to create a "system" instead of offering a bunch of "rulings" should be based on actually having a clue on what and how to model and at least having a grip on probabilities.

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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    I sometimes get the sense that developers fell in love with a dice system they thought was unique, cool, and/or fun, and didn't let the nitty-gritty "boring" mathematical effects get in the way of running with it.
    If you actually run the numbers for SW the basic skill resolution works fine. It's a pretty straightforward arithmetic sum for average dice behaviors, and increasing die size does still increase output with exploding dice.

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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    Quote Originally Posted by Knaight View Post
    If you actually run the numbers for SW the basic skill resolution works fine. It's a pretty straightforward arithmetic sum for average dice behaviors, and increasing die size does still increase output with exploding dice.
    The problem is less the escalating dice than the fixed DCs.

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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    Good or interesting games can have very bad rules too. Let's make a horrible cocktail:

    Enforce random generation of race and class with glaring disparities between the good and bad options, and no "consolation prize" or point-buy equivalent to balance things - so one player gets to play a Noble Superior Magical Elf of Doom with Demon Lackeys and Killer Looks, and another at the same table a One Legged, One Armed Halfling Beggar with Scurvy. Inspiration: Stormbringer

    (For bonus points, some character options aren't just weaker, but have glaringly obvious built-in flaws, like a race so vulnerable to magic that has to roll a saving throw whenever is exposed to any kind of magic effect, to avoid being transformed into non sentient jelly. This of course in a world littered with magic and naturally occurring magical phenomena. Inspiration: the animal people from Feng Shui 2)

    Combine this with some PvP undertones like you get xp only for killing monsters, and xp is not split among the party, but awarded entirely to the character dealing the killing blow. Inspiration: Diablo 1

    Add some sprinkles of misery like an incredibly slow experience progression and completely nonviable character paths (which, again, you didn't pick, but were given to you randomly at creation). Inspiration: Chtulutech

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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    Ok, let me get this straight - you need to own fistfulls of multiple dice types, and record the results of your massive exploding rolls vs similarly horrible opposed rolls? You monster.
    thank you. i may like exploding dice, but i'm kind of cursed with awesome with them. outside of d100, i'll rage quit and i know it. that said, i can't imagine a clunkier mechanic than what i've come up with for something that should objectively be clean, pretty, reliable, and fast.

    star wars: edge of the empire kind of did that dice pool vs dice pool thing, but had a hard cap at 6 dice (and routinely used 4 or less). it may've been a bit clunky, but seeing how you only had 3 results possible, it was fast to roll.

    some kind of cthulu system however does use multiple dice to resolve actions in a way that makes dnd seem fluid and easy to grasp. the inspiration came from there. i can't remember the system, since a friend homebrewed an scp intrigue with it, but yeah: d100 + accuracy bonus to hit, d20 for proficiency, opposed to a d100 dodge, add to that a d12 for a shotgun blast, plus d6 or d4 extra for the part hit (based on armor worn). it's kind of intuitive but it's slow.
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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    d% dive pools. Imagine having to colour code 8+ sets of d% just so you can count successes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    d% dive pools. Imagine having to colour code 8+ sets of d% just so you can count successes.
    Have this kind of dice rolling be used only for a certain sub-system, and have this sub-system be grossly overpowered compared to the rest of the game.

    Have a sidebar calling out that the pain in the neck necessary to use the sub-system is designed as the balancing factor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    d% dive pools. Imagine having to colour code 8+ sets of d% just so you can count successes.
    That could be fun. The d% is too convenient though, and can be made tricky. As for how:

    Essentially a d100, d1000, d10000 or whatever is made by setting each die as a base, and using d10s matches up with the standard base 10. Technically this isn't necessary - you could use d8s with a base 8 system, and reading in base eight using 2d8 get a d64.

    Where this gets really fun is in that base not needing to be constant. As long as the base in use for a given die is represented by the previous die, you can cover the whole range, which superficially looks pretty in a way the d66 (which is actually a d36 which sporadically covers some numbers in the 11-66 range) doesn't.

    Now, using a wide variety of polyhedrals is fun, right? D&D, Cortex, Savage Worlds, they all seem to think so. So we'll take the common set of the d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, and d20. Stringing all of them together makes a d460800, which can generate all of the numbers from 1 to 460800.

    Specifically, you have (1d4-1)*115200+(1d6-1)*19200+(1d8-1)*2400*(1d10-1)*240+(1d12-1)*20+1d20, where all max numbers counts as 460800 instead of zeros.

    Then you use these as a dice pool system, where you change the difficulty by changing both the number of successes needed, and the number you need to succeed, which can vary from 2 to 460800.

    EDIT: It wouldn't be that hard to mix exploding dice into there at every step, for extra fun.
    Last edited by Knaight; 2018-01-13 at 03:17 AM.

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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    Quote Originally Posted by Knaight View Post
    Specifically, you have (1d4-1)*115200+(1d6-1)*19200+(1d8-1)*2400*(1d10-1)*240+(1d12-1)*20+1d20, where all max numbers counts as 460800 instead of zeros.
    I think you mean all zeroes (or all natural 1s), right?

    Doesn't this have the problem that success or failure will usually have been decided by one of the first dice rolls, so if you use it in a dice pool system as proposed, most of the rolls will get "early exited"?

    Another route might be to combine this with something like the skill checks from Das Schwarze Auge/The Dark Eye rather than dice pools. So you get to roll d460800 for a roll-under attribute check, then repeat the process however many times (DSA always sets it at three, but we can always be more creative than that), each time either succeeding or expending a number of skill points to convert the outcome to a success.

    Of course, that still permits early exit. I think Trail of Cthulhu has a mechanic where you expend skill points, but they stay expended for more than one skill check instead of getting them all back the next time you use the same skill.

    So we'll impose a skill point cost on a success in one of the attribute checks, equal to the natural result of the dice roll, with an additional skill point cost to modify the result if needed, and invent a suitably fun mechanic for determining how many expended skill points you get back at the end.

    This ensures that the entire result is always important for all checks, even where a binary success/failure check would be appropriate, thus ensuring that players cannot optimise all the fun out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knaight View Post
    One of the worst mechanics I've ever seen was a needlessly convoluted way of doing something simpler. In this case it was a luck roll that was basically flipping a coin (technically the success odds were 50.5%).

    This luck roll was handled with two sequential d100 rolls. The first one was rolled, and set the difficulty for the second one. Then the second one was rolled to determine success or failure. Unless that 0.5% chance was supposed to actually matter you could literally just flip a coin. The principle behind this, specifically making needlessly convoluted ways of doing something similar that are also relatively opaque in terms of probability (mathematical intuition will get you 50%, which is close, but that 50.5% involved being decent with summations) could be widely applied. Even the specifics of the double roll could be applied elsewhere, although most of the time doing that without warping the probability in actually meaningful ways will be tricky.
    I remember hearing that that was a Synnibar thing: https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/...rev_4762.phtml
    Last edited by lesser_minion; 2018-01-13 at 04:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lesser_minion View Post
    I think you mean all zeroes (or all natural 1s), right?

    Doesn't this have the problem that success or failure will usually have been decided by one of the first dice rolls, so if you use it in a dice pool system as proposed, most of the rolls will get "early exited"?
    I do mean all 1s, yes. It's the minimum that's supposed to loop.

    Also you roll it backwards, from d20 down. There's no early exit here.

    I do like the DSA technique though, particularly because having skills in the hundreds of thousands has the potential to be amazing. As for getting those skill points back, I don't think it's unreasonable to have a roll between current and max skill d460800 every time you use the skill, where if you succeed you set remaining skill points to the new roll, and if you fail you ignore it.

    Now, as for how you get those skills originally - something like just splitting 50 million points between skills seems too straightforward. I'm thinking a life path system, where each life path corresponds to a month of the character's life.
    Last edited by Knaight; 2018-01-13 at 04:52 PM.

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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    An entire month? Surely we spills be going hour by hour, inflicting penalties for not spending enough hours asleep.

    I suppose if we want this playable we should go day by day, with the choice to focus on working hard, relaxing, or mixing the two. Or maybe each day has three slots, and you start to penalties to take rolls if you don't make one of the periods sleep.


    As another one, a magic system where magical power is tied directly to the number of legitimate children you have. Bastards actively subtract from power until legitimised. Power gain or loss begins at the moment of conception and increases in a linear fashion until birth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    Quote Originally Posted by Knaight View Post
    Now, as for how you get those skills originally - something like just splitting 50 million points between skills seems too straightforward. I'm thinking a life path system, where each life path corresponds to a month of the character's life.
    Apart from the larger numbers, that's not too far from the full version of Ars Magica 5th edition's character creation, where you have to decide every season what you did and what the consequences were. Can we work the curse of the pink dot in as well, once we get to the magic/mecha/whatever system?
    Last edited by lesser_minion; 2018-01-13 at 05:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RazorChain View Post
    I think you can do better

    Agility
    Coordination
    Dexterity
    Manual Dexterity
    Nimbleness
    Swiftness
    Speed
    Reflexes

    Then you explain in very vague terms what's the difference between the stats.
    Instead, how about giving separate speed, strength, angles of rotation and dexterity values for each joint? Some people have stronger right arms than left, or vice versa, and leg stats should affect speed and balance more than arm stats. If someone has lost a finger, they need to compensate when using a bow. Isn't this system supposed to simulationist??

    When you make a specific stat check, where the stat has value N, you role 1dN. So if you've got a Intelligence of 12, you role 1d12. If you've got a Charisma of 20, you role 1d20. It sounds perfect! And when you have a wisdom of 17, you role 1d17!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiadoppler View Post
    When you make a specific stat check, where the stat has value N, you role 1dN. So if you've got a Intelligence of 12, you role 1d12. If you've got a Charisma of 20, you role 1d20. It sounds perfect! And when you have a wisdom of 17, you role 1d17!
    So, Synnibar had a mechanic where you roll a d100 to determine what the percentage chance of something happening would be. How about rolling a die to determine how many sides the die you roll to get the actual outcome should have?

    So instead of rolling 1dN for your stat check, make it N - 1d(1dN). If you've got a Charisma of 20, your charisma check is 20 - 1d(1d20), so if you roll a 13 on your d20, then you roll 20-1d13 for your check; and if you roll a 9 then you get to roll 20-1d9.

    Although interestingly, this could be used legitimately, at least if you're rolling your dice electronically -- 1d(d12) can produce any result that a d12 could produce, but the expected value is only 3.75 (half that of a d14).

    Also, dice with weird numbers of sides aren't impossible or unheard of -- Wikipedia says that 34-sided dice are an actual thing, as are "rolling pin dice".
    Last edited by lesser_minion; 2018-01-13 at 07:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lesser_minion View Post
    Although interestingly, this could be used legitimately, at least if you're rolling your dice electronically -- 1d(d12) can produce any result that a d12 could produce, but will be more likely to produce a lower number.

    And while traditional dice rely on particular shapes, you can also extrude a regular polygon into a prism to get dice with unusual numbers of sides.
    I'd say that any RPG mechanic that relies on the player extruding regular polygons at the table is a bad RPG mechanic. The idea isn't bad in and of itself, but it basically requires electronic dice rolling.

    How about a real time tabletop RPG system, where players can announce actions and rolls simultaneously, while the GM determines results dynamically! We can finally be free of the tyranny of turns and artificial action restraints.
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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiadoppler View Post
    I'd say that any RPG mechanic that relies on the player extruding regular polygons at the table is a bad RPG mechanic. The idea isn't bad in and of itself, but it basically requires electronic dice rolling.
    Well, you'd presumably have them all sorted out in advance, just like any other die type (aside from being a pain in the arse to procure). In addition to extruding regular polygons, the tricks we used to make d10s will actually work for almost any other number, in theory at least.

    But you're right that this sort of mechanic is probably best left to the machines.

    How about a real time tabletop RPG system, where players can announce actions and rolls simultaneously, while the GM determines results dynamically! We can finally be free of the tyranny of turns and artificial action restraints.
    I think the Schlock Mercenary RPG already does that in part (initiative goes to whoever announces an action first).

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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    Am I late to the party Richter?
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    3.0 psionics attack and defense modes for everyone (except the boss encounters who get them for free, but we don't want players accidentally missing out on the fun by choosing a monster with a level adjustment do we?).
    Last edited by gooddragon1; 2018-01-13 at 07:29 PM.
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    Y'all are taking this thread even more seriously than I expected. I'm amazed by the efforts I've seen here.

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    3.0 psionics attack and defense modes for everyone (except the boss encounters who get them for free, but we don't want players accidentally missing out on the fun by choosing a monster with a level adjustment do we?).
    I'm mildly confused by your intent. I'm now imagining a separate minigame of overly complex rock scissors paper to determine who gets advantage in any given situation, replayed on a round-by-round basis.

    And, if this uses a finite resource, it discourages the PCs from interacting with the environment too much, else they run out of resources to spend.

    It subtly forces the players to stay on the rails, and just let the GM read the story to them.

    But what had you meant to do with this mechanic?

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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    I will say, this mechanic seems to remove the bias of weighted coins / dice. Although a d100 that always rolls 42 will always win...
    Given That this was a luck roll, would it be wrong of me to point out that a die that always rolled 69 meant you always got lucky?

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    What you get is your "Quertus" being a tactical genius out of sheer luck (Small Unit Tactics 1d4) with pretty lackluster performance as an actual archmage (Arcana 1d12+2).
    Can't say I'm a fan of that resolution mechanic. Especially when you put it that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    The problem is less the escalating dice than the fixed DCs.
    ... How are fixed DCs a problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knaight View Post
    Now, as for how you get those skills originally - something like just splitting 50 million points between skills seems too straightforward. I'm thinking a life path system, where each life path corresponds to a month of the character's life.
    Yes, random life path generating your skills is the way to go. But how about adding in a complex skill system, where you don't actually learn the skills unless you meet the prereqs, to properly simulate how different people don't always take away the same thing from a given event?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    As another one, a magic system where magical power is tied directly to the number of legitimate children you have. Bastards actively subtract from power until legitimised. Power gain or loss begins at the moment of conception and increases in a linear fashion until birth.
    So, huge patriarchal families of incestuous polygamy become the magical ruling class? Who implement Prima Nocta, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by lesser_minion View Post
    Can we work the curse of the pink dot in as well, once we get to the magic/mecha/whatever system?
    And what is the curse of the pink dot?

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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    I think that if you want something to be truly awful, you have to make it look like a game that someone might actually want to play, and then disappoint them (this was the design philosophy behind the doombringer champion). So rolling 1d10000 for the size of some body part you'd rather not think of is far too obvious. Mechanics need to look good on paper but actually fail in practice - for example, skill systems that don't define what "Easy" or "Hard" means well enough to use, leading to massive arguments in play that don't look like the game designer's fault.

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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    I think that if you want something to be truly awful, you have to make it look like a game that someone might actually want to play, and then disappoint them (this was the design philosophy behind the doombringer champion). So rolling 1d10000 for the size of some body part you'd rather not think of is far too obvious. Mechanics need to look good on paper but actually fail in practice - for example, skill systems that don't define what "Easy" or "Hard" means well enough to use, leading to massive arguments in play that don't look like the game designer's fault.
    Ok, taken individually, things like random life path, skill trees, prerequisites, combining multiple stats / skills for rolls, dice pools, opposed rolls, multi-step rolls, and exploding dice are all things existing games do. Where would you draw the line here?

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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    ... How are fixed DCs a problem?
    Using the "dice step" mechanic to represent skill, when not having a talent that gives a static bonus, a roll will always generate a range of results starting with a "1". Even at the high epic skill level of 1d12+2, you still have a chance to fail at the standard DC of 4.

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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    I think that if you want something to be truly awful, you have to make it look like a game that someone might actually want to play, and then disappoint them (this was the design philosophy behind the doombringer champion). So rolling 1d10000 for the size of some body part you'd rather not think of is far too obvious. Mechanics need to look good on paper but actually fail in practice - for example, skill systems that don't define what "Easy" or "Hard" means well enough to use, leading to massive arguments in play that don't look like the game designer's fault.
    Ok.

    Dnd 3.5 alignment system plus Exalted 2e virtue system

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    Default Re: Worst RPG mechanics - combine them into something worse!

    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    And what is the curse of the pink dot?
    The curse of the pink dot is a theoretical exploit under the 5th edition Ars Magica rules for magic resistance. Basically, you could cast any spell on an enemy's weapon and it would have the side effect of making all attacks with the weapon bounce off of your magic resistance, even though such a side effect is actually more effective than most curses you could attempt to apply to the weapon. There's a FAQ discussing it here: https://web.archive.org/web/20071227...arma_loopholes (interestingly, it looks like they knowingly included this because they suspected that a different formulation of the magic resistance rules could result in worse).

    If we're bringing up questionable mechanics from Ars Magica, there's also 4th edition encumbrance rules, which were so crippling that a knight could actually be at his most dangerous and hardest to kill while stripped naked and armed with a stick.

    If we also need catastrophic flaws that fly under the radar, as suggested by Jormengand, both of these are actually pretty decent candidates -- +12 to soak at the cost of -6 to initiative, attack, defence, and combat fatigue sounds better if you haven't realised that the defence penalty, in addition to meaning that you get hit way more often, means that you'll take an extra six points of damage from any attack that would have still hit you without the armour.
    Last edited by lesser_minion; 2018-01-14 at 04:37 PM.

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