Marvel: 2018 Edition

[t209]

Except Karnak who apparently learned super powers naturally.
Wonder what he would learn if gas'd.

Except he's a martial artist and well-educated, so it's more of a nurture thing.
I am not sure he'll do it after what happened to his brother, Triton, who can't survive on the surface without oxygen mask.
Edit:

Spoiler: Since I made tend to make Warhammer 4...2k references

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Maybe a barely sentient furry creature, like what happened to failed Space Wolves aspirant, which many of them turned into wolves on occasion.

[Xyril]

Apologies for the mangled previous post/edit attempt. It's been up so long that substantially editing it would feel dishonest, so I won't.

Well, I thought that you were new to Marvel comics after seeing MCU franchise.

That's not really an answer. It would be like me making a racist and insulting comment about your lack of English speaking skills, you asking "Well, what specifically about the way I speak makes you think my English skills are bad?", and me answering "Well, I thought you weren't a native English speaker."

Well, the problem is that majority of the Nu Humans do not have choice in becoming one as it involved Inhumans allowing the gas to pass through sometimes without warning.

Doesn't this in fact undermine your previous concerns? First you say that Inhumans/mutants are an LGBT stand-in, and thus depicting it as a choice is insulting. Now you're saying that for the majority of Nu Humans, it was clearly something beyond their control. Doesn't this mean that Marvel has in fact changed course and at least partially corrected one of your main concerns?

As for your concern with having an alien influence be partly responsible for identity, I'm not sure that's inherently an issue for most people. The whole idea of Original Sin imposes the same sort of external locus of control, but instead of having that doctrine to justify excluding people, it's used as an argument for inclusiveness--that we're all sinners, because the folks who resist temptation and the ones who don't are still in the same boat because even the most blameless among us are touched by original sin.

But back to the original question, which remains unanswered: Is Marvel depicting this sort of thing as remotely justified? To make it more clear, I assume that there are specific characters or institutions who are pushing hard to control the Nu Humans. How are they depicted? Are they straight up bad guys, or are they sympathetic characters who seem like they have a good reason for what they're doing and are only antagonists by circumstance?

Let me put it another way: If I'm watching Law and Order, and this guy made a lot of unsafe choices going out alone at night in a bad neighborhood and gets mugged, that isn't automatically a problem for me. If the show makes it seem like the criminals aren't as bad because you can pass a lot of blame on to the victim, then that message would bother me. If, however, it's clear that even though the victim might have been more careful--and even though he might even blame himself--the criminals were clearly bad people who would have found somebody to mug no matter what the victim did, I would be very happy with the message the show sent.

[Rater202]

Doesn't this in fact undermine your previous concerns? First you say that Inhumans/mutants are an LGBT stand-in, and thus depicting it as a choice is insulting. Now you're saying that for the majority of Nu Humans, it was clearly something beyond their control. Doesn't this mean that Marvel has in fact changed course and at least partially corrected one of your main concerns?

Differant issue.

The X-Men were being marginalized and Inhumans were being pushed as a substitute for them and mutants in general long before Nuhumans were a thing.

With the Nuhumans, it's just in general a case of the Inhumans kind of being jerks in general, which is a recurring theme.

Essentially, Black Bolt set of a Terrigen Bomb asa weapon against Thanos, who had invaded theEarth to kill one specific Inhuman/Eternal Hybrid, specifically his own son.

A side effect of this Terrigen Bomb was a significant degree of Terrigen Mist being spread all over the world, triggering the powers of the Nuhumans, who have Inhuman ancestry, without their consent. Note that Terrigen mutations are unpredictable and Inhuman society runs programs of selective breeding and genetic screening to minimize the chance of people getting "sucky mutations" or just fracking dying from Terrigenesis(If the risk is too big, you don't get powers) and it was traditionally something you could opt out of.

Meaning that a lot of the Nuhumans most likely ended up crippled or dead instead of getting awesome powers, with no warning.

Medusa then went around collecting NuHumans and trying to bring them back to New Attilan while insisting that becuase they happened to be Inhumans that they belonged with the Inhumans and that the Inhumans were tehir new family, with an apparent disregard for what they wanted--she didn't force people to stay, but she clearly had no regard for the Nuhumans human friends or family.

Note: Inhumans with any Inhuman ancestry were forbidden from undergoing Terrigenisis on the grounds that their human DNa made it too risky. And yet it's fine for Humans with trace amounts of inhuman DNA?

I previously mentioned that it's possible to interpret NuHumans as someone making you a minoriy or LGBT+ against your will instead of you being born that way, which is something else uncofmortable, but that's not really the primary issue.

Also compounding the issue is that it had previously been determined that Humans and Mutants could benifet from Terrigenisis--a Human's latant potential to Mutate could be activated or a Mutant whose powers were surpressed could have them restored. A Pure human undergoing terrigenisis's mutation will eventually progress out of vcontrol and will swiftly become fatal. A mutant whose powers are restored by Terrigensis will have those powers becoming singificantly more powerful than before, have no control over them, and there's about a 50% chance that if their out of control powers don't kill them, they'll just randomly expode from a build up of energy. Otherwise, it eventually wears off.

So even ignoring M-Pox, either MArvel is blatantly ignoring some stuff that was a big deal before or a lot of humans and mutants died from the mists, to no regard from the Inhumans.

[t209]

Differant issue.

The X-Men were being marginalized and Inhumans were being pushed as a substitute for them and mutants in general long before Nuhumans were a thing.

With the Nuhumans, it's just in general a case of the Inhumans kind of being jerks in general, which is a recurring theme.

Essentially, Black Bolt set of a Terrigen Bomb asa weapon against Thanos, who had invaded theEarth to kill one specific Inhuman/Eternal Hybrid, specifically his own son.

A side effect of this Terrigen Bomb was a significant degree of Terrigen Mist being spread all over the world, triggering the powers of the Nuhumans, who have Inhuman ancestry, without their consent. Note that Terrigen mutations are unpredictable and Inhuman society runs programs of selective breeding and genetic screening to minimize the chance of people getting "sucky mutations" or just fracking dying from Terrigenesis(If the risk is too big, you don't get powers) and it was traditionally something you could opt out of.

Meaning that a lot of the Nuhumans most likely ended up crippled or dead instead of getting awesome powers, with no warning.

Medusa then went around collecting NuHumans and trying to bring them back to New Attilan while insisting that becuase they happened to be Inhumans that they belonged with the Inhumans and that the Inhumans were tehir new family, with an apparent disregard for what they wanted--she didn't force people to stay, but she clearly had no regard for the Nuhumans human friends or family.

Note: Inhumans with any Inhuman ancestry were forbidden from undergoing Terrigenisis on the grounds that their human DNa made it too risky. And yet it's fine for Humans with trace amounts of inhuman DNA?

I previously mentioned that it's possible to interpret NuHumans as someone making you a minoriy or LGBT+ against your will instead of you being born that way, which is something else uncofmortable, but that's not really the primary issue.

Also compounding the issue is that it had previously been determined that Humans and Mutants could benifet from Terrigenisis--a Human's latant potential to Mutate could be activated or a Mutant whose powers were surpressed could have them restored. A Pure human undergoing terrigenisis's mutation will eventually progress out of vcontrol and will swiftly become fatal. A mutant whose powers are restored by Terrigensis will have those powers becoming singificantly more powerful than before, have no control over them, and there's about a 50% chance that if their out of control powers don't kill them, they'll just randomly expode from a build up of energy. Otherwise, it eventually wears off.

So even ignoring M-Pox, either MArvel is blatantly ignoring some stuff that was a big deal before or a lot of humans and mutants died from the mists, to no regard from the Inhumans.

Like everything Rater202 said, poor context and the fact that Inhumans turning oopsies are ignored.

[Aotrs Commander]

And Generation #86 grants Marvel one more Bleakbane's stay of execution!

HUZZAH!

'Bout FREAKING time!

[Bastian Weaver]

And Generation #86 grants Marvel one more Bleakbane's stay of execution!

HUZZAH!

'Bout FREAKING time!

Absolutely. But it gets better in #87.

[GameSpawn]

(I'm cautiously optomistic about the Runaways ongoing, though I'm a bit concerned by the current author's stated dislike for Volumes 2 and 3 and about how so far nobody has shown any concern for Klara being in foster care despite the previous volumes treating that as a bad thing, with Karalina even having been given to a foster family that was strong out on pills, and with a time traveling mutant from 1907 who is also an immigrant and a victim of emotional abuse and rape being the exact kind of child who absolutly would not do well is foster care.)

I really like the new Runaways ongoing. Honestly, I think this is the first time since Vaughn that someone's really had an idea of what to do with the Runaways; I felt like most of their other appearances were either kind of directionless or glorified cameos (some of which I still enjoyed, but they didn't lend themselves to an ongoing). The new series actually seems to have a plan, and a direction for the characters to grow in, and I love it.

Regarding Klara...yeah, in universe you're probably right that she's in a bad way, but out of universe, I was glad she was gone. I felt like she never added anything to the team and didn't fit well with the team. In universe, I'm just going to tell myself the Runaways realized they were totally unqualified to care for her and made what seemed like the best choice they could at the time.

[Rater202]

I really like the new Runaways ongoing. Honestly, I think this is the first time since Vaughn that someone's really had an idea of what to do with the Runaways; I felt like most of their other appearances were either kind of directionless or glorified cameos (some of which I still enjoyed, but they didn't lend themselves to an ongoing). The new series actually seems to have a plan, and a direction for the characters to grow in, and I love it.

Regarding Klara...yeah, in-universe you're probably right that she's in a bad way, but out of universe, I was glad she was gone. I felt like she never added anything to the team and didn't fit well with the team. In universe, I'm just going to tell myself the Runaways realized they were totally unqualified to care for her and made what seemed like the best choice they could at the time.

In-Universe the reason nobody did anything with her was that the run she appeared in was cut short, then they overcame her entire character conflict in the last chapter of Runaways/Young Avengers: Secret Invasion leaving her as just Molly's best friend.

However, she was explicitly taken away. Not given up. Letting her get taken at all is out of character for the Runaways, who treated going into the foster system like a fate worse than death, but nobody cares(Not even Karolina, who was the one most insistant on Klara coming with them and had the worst experiance in Foster Care, or Molly, who was Kalra's best friend.)

Furthermore: the Runaway's two-part bit in Aengers Academy concluded with Giant Man and Tigra agreeing that the best place for Klara and Molly was with the other Runaways.

And the most recent issue has narration that explicitly states that Molly has never had a best friend before, which just...

The author of the current run is on the record as being a major fanon of the first volume and hating everything that happened after Gert died. And this is a perfect example of why you don't let a person who hates most of a series write for it--she just cmpletly wrote out the character she didn't right and has everyone act out of character regarding her.

Spoiler: Spoiler

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Also Nico is suddenly atracted to Karolina even though she was straight before and the solits for a couple issues from now imply that Karolina and Julie are gonna break up soon. Couple that with the implciation that Karolina now thinks that her relationship with Xavin was a mistake, and it comes across as the author twisting characters for the sake of a ship.

It's not quite at Running the Asylum levels yet, since the writing is good and makes sense other than the Klara thing, but still.

It's getting to the point that I'm considering working Klara into one of my fanfics just becuase I feel bad that her own series is treating her so poorly.

Right now my worst fear is that it's going to be revealed that she died of M-Pox offscrean.

[Starbuck_II]

I am loving Spiderman-Deadpool.

Also Spiderman II. Especially the ending

Spoiler

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Gwen and May for daughters.
I wonder if we will ever return to that alternate dimension.

[GameSpawn]

In-Universe the reason nobody did anything with her was that the run she appeared in was cut short, then they overcame her entire character conflict in the last chapter of Runaways/Young Avengers: Secret Invasion leaving her as just Molly's best friend.

However, she was explicitly taken away. Not given up. Letting her get taken at all is out of character for the Runaways, who treated going into the foster system like a fate worse than death, but nobody cares(Not even Karolina, who was the one most insistant on Klara coming with them and had the worst experiance in Foster Care, or Molly, who was Kalra's best friend.)

Furthermore: the Runaway's two-part bit in Aengers Academy concluded with Giant Man and Tigra agreeing that the best place for Klara and Molly was with the other Runaways.

And the most recent issue has narration that explicitly states that Molly has never had a best friend before, which just...

The author of the current run is on the record as being a major fanon of the first volume and hating everything that happened after Gert died. And this is a perfect example of why you don't let a person who hates most of a series write for it--she just cmpletly wrote out the character she didn't right and has everyone act out of character regarding her.

Spoiler: Spoiler

Show

Also Nico is suddenly atracted to Karolina even though she was straight before and the solits for a couple issues from now imply that Karolina and Julie are gonna break up soon. Couple that with the implciation that Karolina now thinks that her relationship with Xavin was a mistake, and it comes across as the author twisting characters for the sake of a ship.

It's not quite at Running the Asylum levels yet, since the writing is good and makes sense other than the Klara thing, but still.

It's getting to the point that I'm considering working Klara into one of my fanfics just becuase I feel bad that her own series is treating her so poorly.

Right now my worst fear is that it's going to be revealed that she died of M-Pox offscrean.

I guess I forgot all the details of that. I will say, though; The Runaways are in a very different place now than they were at the end of the Avengers Academy appearance, where they were still pretty united IIRC, but at the beginning of the current series they're much more splintered. That said...I think we might just see this differently because we have different ways of looking at an expansive universe. If a writer feels like they need to write a character out of the series so they can make the series work better, I'd rather they do that, even if it's a bit awkward. I've seen series that I liked die because they tried to incorporate two many characters. I understand that some people feel differently, of course.

Spoiler: spoiler

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I don't really see a problem with Nico realizing she's attracted to Karolina now. Lots of people realize they're bi in their late teens or later. I don't especially want them to get together, but if it happens, that part of it wouldn't bother me at all.

[Rater202]

There's still stuff that could be done with Klara though--Gert was dead when Klara was recruited. It's actually a plot point since earliar versions of her parents are antagonists in that arc.

Meaning that Gert and Klara never knew each other.

You could get at least a good chapter or maybe a running subplot about their first meeting and how they feel about each other, and writing Klara out completly with a handwave and then completly ignoring her existance squanders the oportunity.

[BRC]

There's still stuff that could be done with Klara though--Gert was dead when Klara was recruited. It's actually a plot point since earliar versions of her parents are antagonists in that arc.

Meaning that Gert and Klara never knew each other.

You could get at least a good chapter or maybe a running subplot about their first meeting and how they feel about each other, and writing Klara out completly with a handwave and then completly ignoring her existance squanders the oportunity.

Eh, I don't mind Klara exiting the series. She was okay as a character, but she wasn't really part of the team for any of the good parts of the earlier series, and she's kind of an odd one out as far as the Found Family Dynamic goes. Even in the time-travel arc where she was introduced, I don't recall her ever making a strong impression, or having a strong role in the group dynamic beyond "Another young girl for Molly to hang out with".

I don't hate the character, but I don't think she really ads anything to the story, and in a series heavily based on letting the characters bounce off one another, she would mostly just muck up the works.


Edit: I also think the current run is really benefiting from all the characters being, more or less, "Normal" as far as their backgrounds. The Runaway's strength as a series was often because it played with the middle ground between the mundane and extraordinary. These kids wern't professional superheroes. Their abilities may have been extraordinary, but their "Costumes" were ordinary street clothes, their Codenames were a half-forgotten joke. They bantered and acted like a bunch of kids, rather than larger-than-life superheroes, and a good deal of the fun of the series was exploring how these, somewhat normalish characters reacted to living an extraordinary life.

The current run is very much playing into that dynamic, at least for the time being, and having a banished alien warlord or a time-lost girl in the mix would get in the way of that. Klara and Xavin can't really partake in the whole "How do these normal kids deal with having one foot in the superhero world" thing, because Klara is dealing with a century's worth of culture shock, and Xavin exists firmly within the crazy world of capes and spandex.

[Rater202]

Okay, that's fine.

But Klara was written out entirely via the other Runaways acting out of character--she gets mentioned once and nobody, not Karolina, not Molly, nobody seems to care about her.

[BRC]

Okay, that's fine.

But Klara was written out entirely via the other Runaways acting out of character--she gets mentioned once and nobody, not Karolina, not Molly, nobody seems to care about her.

Eh, not really.


The conceit of the new series is that, with all relevant dangers passed, they didn't really have a strong reason to keep living together, and moved on to other, more stable things. Nico got an apartment and did some superheroing, Karolina went to College, Molly moved in with her grandmother. Only Chase was still living in a hideout, and he's hardly equipped to take care of her.

Klara was put in Foster Care, which was probably the best thing for her. She's safe and stable right now, probably living a far better life than she would with the Runaways. Gert was invested in getting the family back together, but Gert missed the whole part where they went their separate ways for not-terrible reasons. They were fine with Molly living with her grandmother. Gert was the real Anti-Authoritarian in the group. As the others moved to, essentially, rejoin ordinary society, it makes sense that they would be fine with Klara getting a normal home.

[Rater202]

Eh, not really.


The conceit of the new series is that, with all relevant dangers passed, they didn't really have a strong reason to keep living together, and moved on to other, more stable things. Nico got an apartment and did some superheroing, Karolina went to College, Molly moved in with her grandmother. Only Chase was still living in a hideout, and he's hardly equipped to take care of her.

Klara was put in Foster Care, which was probably the best thing for her. She's safe and stable right now, probably living a far better life than she would with the Runaways. Gert was invested in getting the family back together, but Gert missed the whole part where they went their separate ways for not-terrible reasons. They were fine with Molly living with her grandmother. Gert was the real Anti-Authoritarian in the group. As the others moved to, essentially, rejoin ordinary society, it makes sense that they would be fine with Klara getting a normal home.

Except for the part where the previous series treated Foster Care like it was prison, the California Foster System being overcrowded and underfunded(with Karolina personally having ended up with Foster Parents who were strong out on drugs all the time), so between that and Klara being a mutant and thus automatically hated by roughly a third of the country what are the real chances that she's in a good foster home?

Klara literally only trusts the other Runaways and is a possibly autistic and emotonally abused rape victim from over a hundred years ago. There's no way that normal foster parents are equipped to take careof her.

And that's assuming that she actually ended up with Foster PArentsinstead of in a group home. All that's been said is that Child Services took her away.

The most recent chapter explicitly states that that Molly has never had a best friend before. Except she did. Her name was Klara.

She's mentioned once and then her very existance is ignored. That's bad writing.

[Man on Fire]

Then you missed a rather massive arc were in she starts working with this group that have decided to go capture people who have not yet committed crimes.

But according to a computer only 1 or 2 of them can operate, based on "Good Science Criteria that ISN'T profiling we swear really take our word for it Minority Super Heroine!" these people are GOING to commit crimes.

The fact that all the "Crimes" and "Critera" involve being people that the typical extremely far left American political activist would deem "Problematic." is entirely beside the point dear reader please pay it no mind. Also pay no mind that were apparently predicting these crimes so very far into the future that the people who are alleged to commit them down the road haven't even though of doing so yet.



And of course she eats this up and backs it and goes about wtih this group using there super powers to kidnap people out of there homes. No Lawyers. No Right to Privacy. No Warrants. No actual physical crimes or evidence or victims. No Trial. No Jury. The people taking you in are your Judges, Jailers and Executioners. Period. No Appealing to higher authority. No legal recourse or defense at all.

You. Have. No. Rights. And she's 100% ok with this and defends it until it's done to someone she knows personally. And even then she doesn't throw the system under the bus for an altogether too long period of time. Because she believes in this kind of a system and it's rightness and superiority to alternatives.

Oh, and the friend/love interest who starts to finally make her think it's within the realms of conceivability this might, maybe, just possibly, and this is a crazy though, be potentially a little bit wrong to do? When he got arrested for a future crime he wasn't even considering at the time?

He get's permanently maimed by the end of the matter. He's gonna spend the rest of his natural life in a wheel chair as a direct consequence of her taking that path. And SHE is the one that the authors rather brazenly think you, dear reader, should feel sorry for.






We have a term of this kind of behavior. It's called Fascism. And her problem with it wasn't that at it's core the system is horrible and should be opposed at every turn. That it's Barbaric and Sub human and monstrous at every step and level form inception to every form of conceivable implementation through out time and space.

Her problem was that the computer program made 1 mistake, there for it wasn't reliable enough for her to be acting on it. Again, not the human rights violations that actually bug her. Her personal inner circle getting hurt and rightfully shunning her for her BS, and the comp goofing. Offer her a "better" computer and program and she'd do it all again.



Ergo, the character is dead to me. They have made certain to ruin her in a way that there really, ultimately, isn't going to be an acceptable recovery form. At least, not form this crop of writers. Now, sure, if you gave it to someone competent and told them to make getting her over the fact that this black mark is in her past a priority, they could probably pull it off. But this crop doesn't really think Ms. Marvel was in the wrong in the first place, so, that's never gonna happen long as they are working for Marvel.

The New Editor In Chief Can't fire the whole lot of them fast enough.

I came to this thread to complain about something but HOLY COW evertyhing you've said is a lie said by someone who does nto read comics. Maybe istead of watching videos by Diversity & Comics, who lies about the contents of a story to push his political agenda you will actually read a book yourself?

Eh, let me get through this sea of lies, why not.

Then you missed a rather massive arc were in she starts working with this group that have decided to go capture people who have not yet committed crimes

She does so at the request of her mentor and idol whom she adores but she queickly starts questioning their actions. In fact she gets first "something is wrong" hint where Becky, leader of the group, makes a rather racist side-note.

But according to a computer only 1 or 2 of them can operate, based on "Good Science Criteria that ISN'T profiling we swear really take our word for it Minority Super Heroine!" these people are GOING to commit crimes.

Except it is very quickly pointed in the story that YES, this is profiling. That's the point.

The fact that all the "Crimes" and "Critera" involve being people that the typical extremely far left American political activist would deem "Problematic."

LIE!
We see only two cases of such crimes being stopped. One guy STOLE A TANK and was riding it down the street and the other would blow up his school. And the fact that the other guy is a straight white male who is being profiled is used to show Becky, the villain of the arc, as being in the wrong. it's the moment she first shows her true colors.

And of course she eats this up and backs it and goes about wtih this group using there super powers to kidnap people out of there homes. No Lawyers. No Right to Privacy. No Warrants. No actual physical crimes or evidence or victims. No Trial. No Jury. The people taking you in are your Judges, Jailers and Executioners. Period. No Appealing to higher authority. No legal recourse or defense at all.

You. Have. No. Rights. And she's 100% ok with this and defends it until it's done to someone she knows personally.

Except that this being done to a guy she knows personally WAS THE VERY FIRST TIME the system has been used to kidnapp someone from his house and put him to jail without a trial. The very first time. And Kamala is horrified when it happens.

And even then she doesn't throw the system under the bus for an altogether too long period of time. Because she believes in this kind of a system and it's rightness and superiority to alternatives.

Again, she does not. She tries to appeal to Carol, her idol and person she wants to be like, and convince her this is wrong but Carol convinces her that the system can work and she needs to ensure abuses of power like those done by Becky don't happen. Kamala tries but fails to reing Becky in.

Oh, and the friend/love interest who starts to finally make her think it's within the realms of conceivability this might, maybe, just possibly, and this is a crazy though, be potentially a little bit wrong to do? When he got arrested for a future crime he wasn't even considering at the time?

He get's permanently maimed by the end of the matter. He's gonna spend the rest of his natural life in a wheel chair as a direct consequence of her taking that path. And SHE is the one that the authors rather brazenly think you, dear reader, should feel sorry for.

Not only a ton of LIES, again, but also an absolute lack of reading comprehension to the point you merged two different characters into one.
Josh is the guy who got arrested for a crime he had only considered but ot yet done. Josh is ex of Kamala's bully-tuned friend who was hanging out with her crowd hoping to get together with his ex-girlfriend. In later arc he said he never felt like Kamala's friend, more a fifth wheel.
Bruno is Kamala's best friend/love interest. He tried to blow up the place Josh is being held in and got himself maimed in the process, ending up with severe disability. And you know what? He tears Kamala a new one for it and breaks their friendship, never wanting to see her again. He later shows up in an issue all built to make us feel sorry for him. This is not presented as some "woe is to be Kamala, feel bad for her for her life is soo bad". It's presented as "Kamala's msitakes catch up to her". Because that what this story is - Kamala trusting her idol and making a mistake that costs her dearly. Everyone loved it when they did it to Parker in first Civil War!

We have a term of this kind of behavior. It's called Fascism. And her problem with it wasn't that at it's core the system is horrible and should be opposed at every turn. That it's Barbaric and Sub human and monstrous at every step and level form inception to every form of conceivable implementation through out time and space.

Her problem was that the computer program made 1 mistake, there for it wasn't reliable enough for her to be acting on it. Again, not the human rights violations that actually bug her. Her personal inner circle getting hurt and rightfully shunning her for her BS, and the comp goofing. Offer her a "better" computer and program and she'd do it all again.

Again, you are telling a LIE! No, it was not that the "program" (by the way, way to show you don't read comics as it was a guy with superpowers not a program) made one mistake (which he didn't really, even Josh was planning to blow up the school). It wasn't that her friends got personally targetted. It was that she was too blindsinded by faith in her idol to realzie the implications of what this is, the fascism and violation of human rights, before it hit people she cares about. She made a msitake. Because she is a 16-years old kid and a normal human being.

You know what, this pisses me off to no end. Your right-winged lot ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS keep yapping and yapping how the diverse heroes cannot be perfect and need to be flawed, need to make msitakes, need to be vurnerable and suffer loses to be relatable and to be real characters and not just mouthpieces. But the moment one of them makes a msitake and suffers for it LIKE YOU WANTED, you are getting mad she didn't made the right choice from the get go, that she wasn't the idealized ms. perfect who always makes only the right choices and never does anything wrong. Decide what you actually want!

t least, not form this crop of writers. Now, sure, if you gave it to someone competent and told them to make getting her over the fact that this black mark is in her past a priority, they could probably pull it off. But this crop doesn't really think Ms. Marvel was in the wrong in the first place, so, that's never gonna happen long as they are working for Marvel.

Except the VERY SAME WRITER who wrote that story then wrote an arc where following happens:
a) Josh comes back as a supervillain seeking revenge because his life is ruined
and
b) Kamala realizes this and other mistakes she made turned public against superhumans and they appointed same fascists (and a literal Nazi) tohunt them down
So Kamala was still paying for the consequences of her mistakes, they milked it out n an entire another story and it then lead to her even quitting for an arc later feeling she screwed up too much, until her cousin talked her out of it.

Ergo, the character is dead to me.

She was always dead to you because you don't read comics, watching videos by notorious liar Richard C. Meyers does not count as actually being real comics fan.

[t209]

Except for the part where the previous series treated Foster Care like it was prison, the California Foster System being overcrowded and underfunded(with Karolina personally having ended up with Foster Parents who were strong out on drugs all the time), so between that and Klara being a mutant and thus automatically hated by roughly a third of the country what are the real chances that she's in a good foster home?

Klara literally only trusts the other Runaways and is a possibly autistic and emotonally abused rape victim from over a hundred years ago. There's no way that normal foster parents are equipped to take careof her.

And that's assuming that she actually ended up with Foster PArentsinstead of in a group home. All that's been said is that Child Services took her away.

The most recent chapter explicitly states that that Molly has never had a best friend before. Except she did. Her name was Klara.

She's mentioned once and then her very existance is ignored. That's bad writing.

Or trying to tie-in to the show.
"Hey, Klara wasn't in our new series. That would make people confusing without knowledge about past series. Better to set her aside."

[Rater202]

Or trying to tie-in to the show.
"Hey, Klara wasn't in our new series. That would make people confusing without knowledge about past series. Better to set her aside."

Except they brought back Victor, reverse Cyborg son of Ultron, and he was dead.

...I have got to read Vision 2015 one of these days. I'm hoping it'll explain why Tony only sent chase Victor's head for burial instead of the whole body. Or why he sent it in the mail without so much as a note saying "these are Victor's mortal remains."

[Man on Fire]

Sure I can. It's her canon. The writers have had time to clean it up if they wanted too.


They don't, and haven't.

Except that the series is to this day dealing with consequences of the arc? You know, the ACTUAL consequences that grew from the mistake she made that is shown as a mistake?

And no, there pretty clearly explicit about her questioning it once she sees it's someone she knows. The fact that there profiling comes out AFTER she starts questioning it to help support that position because the writers, by now, have realized they have good and shot themselves in the foot with this little storyline. Not that anything in it is wrong in there minds mind you, just that they've figured out it what it makes them look like. And being that honest they figured was a bad plan.

Once again, you tell a big, fat, LIE!
Kamala starts questioning the program after arresting Hinjix, when her sister-in-law pointed out to her that predictive justice is not much different from profiling and what consequences that had. Josh being arrested served as a wake-up call to make her realize those words were true.

By that logic kid she knew should have been out the following morning and I seem to recall them holding him notably longer then that. And guy with exploding tank should have been out in a couple of hours. He certainly got held longer then that. So, that's not a valid defense, sorry.

Guy with an exploding tank stole that tank, that's why he wasn't released. Josh similiarly was about to be released but Bruno blew up the place.

And all of this leaves out the points that she's suppose to be this Oh So Very Smart Oh So Very Genera Savvy Geek Girl who's Oh So Very Politically Savvy already and Oh So Very Wise Beyond Her Years. Which, I was willing to buy into. I did buy into.

You didn't. Because this was NEVER her thing. Kamala was never this super smart, political savvy and especially not Wise Beyond Her Years character. She is a normal teenage girl. If she gives some message it's one she herself learned as a result of her own character development, that was always her thing. You only show you have never ever read a single of her adventures, at least not from beginning to the end, if you didn't realize that. Instead you held her to a standard the character never aspired to to have a convenient excuse to condemn her the moment she doesn't measure to it.

And then this happened. This was her having her One More Day moment, except that she didn't wait 45 years for it. She did it early on to make sure you knew you could no longer trust anything that's suppose to be a fundamental tennent of who this person is. For crying out loud she beats you about the head regularly with the Oppressed Minority Group(s)TM, and doesn't recognize "Were going to get people for things they haven't done yet and set precedent for wiping out there rights just on our say so that if we don't they will eventually do bad things! Really you can trust us cause there's no chance any of us would ever be wrong or lie or abuse this kind of un limited power!" as the sort of thing that could quickly, and trivially easily be used to make sure those minority groups stay oppressed? Or worse, get wiped out when half your bad guys want to do that too them whole sale?! Are you KIDDING ME?!

Again, you sir, are a LIAR! "For crying out loud she beats you about the head regularly with the Oppressed Minority Group(s)TM," is a lie. That was again, never her thing at that point. Sure, her being Pakistani Muslim was part of her identity and they didn't sugarcoat some of the aspects of being one in modern America, but she was not all about the "opressed minority", just the reality of her life. In fact, before Civil War II the book much more preffered to talk about political subjects using safer metaphors. When they wanted to talk about constent and victim blaming they used a guy luring Kamala into supervillain plan, when they wanted to talk about post 9/11 islamophobia it was done through Inhumans metaphor (Kamala fought an Inhuman supervillain who vieved normal people as inferior and mentioned that every time someone tries to terrorize people like this, people who look like that person suffer for it) and if it became more openly preachy after...well, you can have only people like you to blame for going out of your way to demonize the book regardless.

And once again, you prove you don't actually read the series you are complaining about, by the way. Are ALL your opinions really based on videos by known liar Diversity & Comics and his ilk?

Also, one thing that makes it impossible to compare Kamala to Peter in OMD or Batman in your example. Kamala is a teenager. A naive one at that. Naivety and being too trustful was a thing established as a part of her character in very first issue, when she failed to see Zoe's invitation to the part was a ruse to humilate her despite how obviously fake Zoe's kidness was. It also got her kidnapped by a boy she liked and almost forced to aid Lineage in overthrowing Medusa because again, she trusted wrong person too much. Her trusting her idol enough to not see obvious red flags carried by Becky is enteirly in character. Her not thinking things through and making msitakes was also established, you don't need to look further than 3 issues before that to see how she caused a city-wide chaos through a rather stupid idea. And again, she is a teenager. Part of the appeal of teen heroes is they can make msitakes we would not forgive experienced adult veterans for - because they're still figuring things out!

But hey, I guess it's easier fighting an opponent made out of straw than a real one.

And you know, I'd be willing to let it go and give them another chance if they really wanted to fix it. Instead, they want to tell me the victimizer in this whole thing, Ms. Marvel (who, make no mistake, was decidedly the victimizer the whole way through.), is really the one I should really and truly feel sorry for because she's the real victim here! Not the innocent guy who literally never committed a crime and got permanently stuck in a wheel chair for the rest of his natural life. No, the person who made sure that happened to him is the one who really demands my sympathy damn it!

Lalalalalalalala LIE! LIE! LIE!

Again, there is a LOT of sympathy directed for Bruno, including devoting entire issue to see how much he has to struggle coping with his disability. If there is sympathy directed for Kamala in this arc it is done through the lenses of her having to deal with consequences of her own mistakes. The fact you fail or rather refuse to acknowledge it only shows how dedicated you are to not actually having an argument but demonizing the character at all costs to push your own agenda.

[t209]

Except they brought back Victor, reverse Cyborg son of Ultron, and he was dead.

...I have got to read Vision 2015 one of these days. I'm hoping it'll explain why Tony only sent chase Victor's head for burial instead of the whole body. Or why he sent it in the mail without so much as a note saying "these are Victor's mortal remains."

Well, Victor is still part of the Hulu, better to revive him to make connection with audience.

[Rater202]

Well, Victor is still part of the Hulu, better to revive him to make connection with audience.

Victor Mancha, not Victor Stein.

Victor the Cyborg is not only not in the Hulu series, he's not even part of the MCU and I don't think he can be based on how Ultron was handled, barring a massive change in his characterization.