OOTS #1110 - The Discussion Thread

[Jasdoif]

Doesn't Minrah have protection from evil up already?

Protection from evil only lasts one minute per caster level; it expiring before the fight (or worse, expiring mid-fight) is a distinct possibility. I suppose Minrah could cast it again right before the fight, like Hilgya said she'd do with her wand, if Minrah has it prepared another time.

[JumboWheat01]

Elan has a very fair point there.

And I'm not sure such a sentence is a good thing or not.

[KorvinStarmast]

but maybe Elan wasn't paying attention.

If I may quote V from that same strip ...
Perhaps we do not know everything we ought to regarding the task which we are undertaking.
That might be worth pointing out before they enter the hall.

Good call by Blackwing to ask for Restoration to be cast on V.

The old Vaudeville era "he doesn't know that we know that he know what we know" routine was well reprised in that discussion between Roy and Belkar. (And it's another "Roy is overthinking this" episode as well).

Nice strip.

[zimmerwald1915]

Huh, I'm surprised Minrah isn't Lawful. Did she ever say what god she serves? I'm looking and I don't see it, it doesn't look like she did.

Minrah worships Thor. Her alignment, particularly her ethical alignment, has never been stated. Given that she used protection from evil on herself without suffering the negative effects Belkar experiences with that spell (or the similar negative effects Roy thinks he'd suffer from protection from law), she's almost certainly not Evil.

V will be protected from the level drain touch attack and he gets his levels/spells back

Unless Mr. Burlew is feeling particularly generous, Vaarsuvius will not regain spells from restoration. Those spell slots are still regarded as having been expended.

She will, however, regain hit points and save bonuses.

[Tvtyrant]

New comic is up.

Got a physical laugh out of me :D

[i6uuaq]

Unfortunately, this shows that Durkon was paying attention. Perhaps the fact that the vampire is relying on Durkon's memories won't help the party as much as they think.

The vampire has been shown to not be able to put two and two together when it comes to these memories though...

Not saying it won't happen, it's just that there's some textual support for it happening the other way.

[ti'esar]

Honestly, I always thought Roy regularly comes up with detailed plans. They just inevitably get derailed by some wacky circumstance.

[JustAnotherSoul]

Is that a typo in the second to last panel?
Elan: "Whoa, whoa, who, Roy"...

As opposed to, "Whoa, whoa, whoa"

[ErebusVonMori]

You know Elan, just because your observation is pertinent and correct doesn't mean it's welcome.

[Stabbey]

That punchline is absolutely wonderful.

[Kopmon]

At long last, we use our magical prowess. Let’s go OoTS!

[Crusher]

The plan is indeed genius.

[drazen]

Protection from Law - would that necessarily even work against these vampires? The Creed of the Stone vampires, could well originally haven been True Neutral, couldn't they? Making their vamp forms either Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil... no law required.

This is going to be their big oversight, isn't it?

[Kish]

No. It doesn't matter. All the Protection from X Alignment spells null mind control regardless of the source of the mind control. They could use Protection from Good and it would still work.

[Peelee]

Protection from Law - would that necessarily even work against these vampires? The Creed of the Stone vampires, could well originally haven been True Neutral, couldn't they? Making their vamp forms either Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil... no law required.

Assuming both that they were, in fact, Neutral on the Law-Chaos axis, and that the vampire alignments work the way you think they work, yes.

Both assumptions are under no obligation to be true, of course.

Listen to the Kish and not the Peelee.

[Kashem]

"Especially since he doesn't know that you have two clerics!"

In what world does he not know that? They just made the comment that there are vampires standing in the room with him that they just fought. Both clerics were present in that fight, and the vampires that escaped were actually TURNED by Hilgya. Minrah cast Protection from Evil in the same fight.
The vampires should absolutely know that the party has two clerics, or that it is at least a strong possibility that they do, and since the party knows that the vampires they just fought have joined back up with Greg, it is reasonable for them to assume that Greg knows also. The only thing Greg doesn't know is the levels of the clerics (Hilgya's strength may catch him somewhat by surprise).

The only time this would not be the case would be if the vamps that bugged out had neglected to tell Greg about the two clerics they fought, but that would seem to be a pretty major oversight.

As far as I can tell, everyone knows that everyone knows everything, with the only exception being that Greg does not know that the party knows about the Symbol of Death, so he may be counting on that helping him, when it will in fact be useless if the party prepares properly.
So pretty much: both sides know that it is a trap, and both sides know that both sides know it is a trap, so basically all we have here is an attacking team and a defending team, both of which have plenty of time to prepare for the fight, and the attacking team knows about exactly ONE of the defending team's traps.

[Manty5]

Why would a protection from Law spell work against the swirly-eyes? Can we count on every one of the vamped minions having been lawful? For that matter, is Durkon* still lawful? (forget this part-I was ninja'd)

I was thinking that Roy's statement that the spell would just give him a headache because... is an important foreshadowing. I originally thought that it was because he was already mind blanked, but V supposedly was too, so shouldn't it go for her?

Is Roy really Roy? One would think so given that he used the greenhilt power earlier. Or did V not actually cast mind blank before because she lost it from level drain and has a different spell in that slot?

Also, I still think that Durkon* is using the trap and the rest of his minions to delay Roy while he vamps the council.

[Peelee]

Why would a protection from Law spell work against the swirly-eyes? Can we count on every one of the vamped minions having been lawful? For that matter, is Durkon* still lawful?

Wheeeeeee!

It doesn't matter. All the Protection from X Alignment spells null mind control regardless of the source of the mind control. They could use Protection from Good and it would still work.

[Darth Paul]

Is that a typo in the second to last panel?
Elan: "Whoa, whoa, who, Roy"...

As opposed to, "Whoa, whoa, whoa"

I just tuned in to note the same thing. I'm sure it will be corrected directly.

[Anarion]

I wonder why the vampire decided to do this sort of taunt at all. Petty vengeance? Trying to lure them into a trap rather than risk being interrupted later? I like the use of the scrying pool a lot, as well, it's been great these last couple comics.

[The MunchKING]

Also, is it just me, or in Panel 8 doesn't it seem like Kudzu us still using the scrying water? How many Cleric levels has he already gained by hanging around on his mother's chest? Scrying is a 5th level Cleric spell, so that implies Kudzu is at least level 9 to use it (the level thread theorists can have a field day with that. And yes, this is a joke... But what if it isn't?).

Nah, Helga cast it, he’s just maintaining it. After all, once she cast it, everyone could see what was going on.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Can someone confirm that when Roy responding to the sending, Roy was in control of where he stopped the message back? Because by my count, the 25 words allowed by the spell would include his next speech bubble, where he blurts out that he is aware of the trap.

GW

[The MunchKING]

I was thinking that Roy's statement that the spell would just give him a headache because... is an important foreshadowing. I originally thought that it was because he was already mind blanked, but V supposedly was too, so shouldn't it go for her?

Like Belkar being hurt by Protection from Evil because he’s Evil; Roy will be hurt by Protection from Law because he is Lawful.

[Fyraltari]

So pretty much: both sides know that it is a trap, and both sides know that both sides know it is a trap, so basically all we have here is an attacking team and a defending team, both of which have plenty of time to prepare for the fight, and the attacking team knows about exactly ONE of the defending team's traps.

Nitpick : two traps, all the non-caster vampires will drop on V to try to drain his levels and fail due to the death ward.
I agree with everythingelse you said, though.

I was thinking that Roy's statement that the spell would just give him a headache because... is an important foreshadowing. I originally thought that it was because he was already mind blanked, but V supposedly was too, so shouldn't it go for her?

Is Roy really Roy? One would think so given that he used the greenhilt power earlier. Or did V not actually cast mind blank before because she lost it from level drain and has a different spell in that slot?

If protection from Evil burns the evil Belkar, it seems logical that protection from Law gives the lawful Roy an headache.

I wonder why the vampire decided to do this sort of taunt at all. Petty vengeance? Trying to lure them into a trap rather than risk being interrupted later? I like the use of the scrying pool a lot, as well, it's been great these last couple comics.

I think it's pretty clear by this point that Undurkon wants the pleasure of killing Roy personally instead of having him die when theworld is unmade. I predict that his willingness to put his own murderous desires before his mistress's plans will spell failure for both.

[Darth Paul]

Can someone confirm that when Roy responding to the sending, Roy was in control of where he stopped the message back? Because by my count, the 25 words allowed by the spell would include his next speech bubble, where he blurts out that he is aware of the trap.

GW

Wondered about that myself.

The SRD on line says it's 25 words or less, which sort of makes sense, otherwise the spell caster would have to Send the next 25 words out of their mouth, whatever they were. And "the recipient can answer in like manner", so I assume the "or less" is a conscious choice.

[The MunchKING]

Can someone confirm that when Roy responding to the sending, Roy was in control of where he stopped the message back? Because by my count, the 25 words allowed by the spell would include his next speech bubble, where he blurts out that he is aware of the trap.

GW

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sending.htm

It says can reply not automatically does.

[zimmerwald1915]

Nitpick : two traps, all the non-caster vampires will drop on V to try to drain his levels and fail due to the death ward.

You're still left with several vampires grappling a wizard who can't cast dimension door. Blood drain or no, level drain or no, those squishy hit points ain't stickin' around long.

[Mandor]

"He'll never see that coming!!" Hilarious, because it's totally true.

[Darth Paul]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sending.htm

It says can reply not automatically does.

I think (not to speak for GW, just for me) the question is, once Roy did reply, did he automatically reply with 25 words. But I think the answer is "no, he can stop replying when he's done." He doesn't have to use up all 25 words in his reply.

[Hardcore]

"Count Clownshoes" +1