OOTS #1110 - The Discussion Thread

[Puschkin]

SlashDash, about character arcs not finished:
Don't forget about Monster in the Darkness :)

[Manty5]

Durkon* has access to scry as well. He also knows that a cleric who can turn his minions is there. So why wouldn't a moderately competent villain begin a scry attempt (scrying pool is off-panel) immediately on the lowest-wis member of the party to see who the newcomer is? Then after they're done generating speech bubbles and attempt their own scry, he times the SOD spell and does his villain explanation of evil plan so that they see him cast it?

I'm pretty sure we're going to find out Durkon* knows a lot more than they assume he does.

[goodpeople25]

Durkon* has access to scry as well. He also knows that a cleric who can turn his minions is there.

He does? (Both him having the knowledge and interpretating access as him or others having more scrys prepared) Nifty! Not sure what that means exactly for his planning, (afaik a cleric could be as low as level freaking 2 to fall under that description, it'd have to more precise knowledge than that) or how he knows it's a cleric but still nifty.

[Manty5]

He does? (Both him having the knowledge and interpretating access as him or others having more scrys prepared)

Come on. He's a vampire cleric who vamped a clan of clerics and brought 3 of them with him, then vamped a whole lot of dwarves, some of whom were clerics. It would be outright odd if he didn't have access to it.

[Kish]

Scrying is a fifth-level spell; only clerics of at least ninth level can cast it and any vampires he created today have only what they prepared while they were living, minus the spells they used up fighting vampires.

Greg himself, or Vampire Gontor, could certainly cast Scrying, if their plan involved preparing it.

[goodpeople25]

Come on. He's a vampire cleric who vamped a clan of clerics and brought 3 of them with him, then vamped a whole lot of dwarves, some of whom were clerics. It would be outright odd if he didn't have access to it.

Given at least 1 scrying was apparently used in #1086, I'd be inclinced to agree that he did have access. It's having access to it now and it being something to assume I question.

Besides my response is the same, Nifty.

[Hopeless]

So either Durkula wants to trap the Order in that room so he can focus on what's important or someone should remind Roy what V prepared this morning!😉

They don't need to enter that chamber all they need to do is seal any exit so they can reach that dwarven council and hope they vote in favour of not resetting everything!

That's far more important so they can deal with the important part of stopping Xykon and saving the world!

Again!😉

[Goremplotz]

During a sending, no-one but the recipient can hear the sender's words on the recipient's side. That's why Roy had to tell the others that there was a sending at all. The only one that could experience "echo" would be Roy, and he was too far from the bowl.

I'm not a D&D player, so I don't really know the rules under which a sending operates. But it seems that a recipient of a sending can send a response. I wonder if Durkula only gets the words uttered by Roy or if he gets those words plus any background noise. The latter might include an echo (Roy's words as received at Durkula as received by the scrying) and could tip Durkula off that he himself is the object of ongoing scrying by an appropriately ranked cleric.

[zimmerwald1915]

I'm not a D&D player, so I don't really know the rules under which a sending operates. But it seems that a recipient of a sending can send a response. I wonder if Durkula only gets the words uttered by Roy or if he gets those words plus any background noise. The latter might include an echo (Roy's words as received at Durkula as received by the scrying) and could tip Durkula off that he himself is the object of ongoing scrying by an appropriately ranked cleric.

It's the words only. If sending could send background noise, Nale wouldn't have needed to make Julia cast her own scroll.

[Peelee]

It's the words only. If sending could send background noise, Nale wouldn't have needed to make Julia cast her own scroll.

I was going to say the same thing, but the argument presented is Roy's words as the background noise, just on a delay because of the scry. It technically is still Roy responding, so I also assume that, if it were so, his echoed words would count towards the word limit.

Of course, I don't think it has a snowball's chance in hell of being the case, but it was an interesting thought.

[Fyraltari]

I was going to say the same thing, but the argument presented is Roy's words as the background noise, just on a delay because of the scry. It technically is still Roy responding, so I also assume that, if it were so, his echoed words would count towards the word limit.

Of course, I don't think it has a snowball's chance in hell of being the case, but it was an interesting thought.

Not a D&D player either but from that script alone I think that would not work :

Roy warns the others that he is Send to by Greg and the other say they know because they can see and here Geg talking o his end via the scrying spell which means the Sending spell does not actually make noise or project apicture it makes the receiver hallucinates the picture and the words as a form of mental connection and there is nothing that an observer would witness. Therefore the scrying spell does not replicate Roy's answer hence no echo.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Yeah. Arguably, the spell is actually telepathic rather than spoken. At least I've seen several DMs who rule that way.

[factotum]

Somebody earlier wondered if Roy had just given away the gameplan in his response to the Sending, but even if the reply doesn't stop when Roy wants it to, all Durkula would have got would be:

"We'll be there! Just as soon as we figure out where that is. And drink some potions. Now we *know* he's springing a trap. Ah-"

I don't think that really tells him much, does it? Durkula's opinion of Roy may be low, but even he must surely realise this has "TRAP" written all over it, especially after his Sending.

[emduck]

Somebody earlier wondered if Roy had just given away the gameplan in his response to the Sending, but even if the reply doesn't stop when Roy wants it to, all Durkula would have got would be:

"We'll be there! Just as soon as we figure out where that is. And drink some potions. Now we *know* he's springing a trap. Ah-"

I don't think that really tells him much, does it? Durkula's opinion of Roy may be low, but even he must surely realise this has "TRAP" written all over it, especially after his Sending.

Yeah, it's so obviously a trap that Durkula must know that even Roy&Co. know it. It's just a matter of how good the trap is.

[Suicune]

I think the group's gonna get blindsided somehow (perhaps they missed part of the plan and are assuming they know everything?) and Belkar's going to get vamped here, if I'm honest. The Oracle's prophecy ("Belkar will draw his last breath within the year", probably slightly paraphrased) and Greg's demonstration that vampires don't breathe all seems to line up a little too perfectly in a situation where the group seems like they know what they're doing. I've read enough fiction to know if a group thinks they have something under control, they don't.

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but still, something I'm predicting anyway.

[Kish]

Last breath ever, the Oracle specified, so if your prediction includes "and then Vampire Belkar will be destroyed completely rather than resurrected" it might happen.

If it's intended as a way around the prophecy, with Belkar spending a few days as a vampire and then being resurrected to go on his way with no prophecy of his death, good luck with that.

If it's intended as a way around the prophecy, with Belkar remaining in control of his vampiric body somehow...lots of good luck with that.

[factotum]

Last breath ever, the Oracle specified, so if your prediction includes "and then Vampire Belkar will be destroyed completely rather than resurrected" it might happen.

Yeah, especially since another part of the prophecy says that Belkar is "not long for this world".

[Alex Warlorn]

Interesting point, and it does seem like that would be a great way to screw up a vampire royally. Acid Fog doesn't get its due, because a human that really did inhale acid would in desperate need of a hospital if not a morgue - so you might think the same of a vamp. But there's a big counterpoint - vamps don't breathe, so it shouldn't be much worse than skin contact.

Sounds like Cloud Kill exists already under another name.

[Alex Warlorn]

I think the group's gonna get blindsided somehow (perhaps they missed part of the plan and are assuming they know everything?) and Belkar's going to get vamped here, if I'm honest. The Oracle's prophecy ("Belkar will draw his last breath within the year", probably slightly paraphrased) and Greg's demonstration that vampires don't breathe all seems to line up a little too perfectly in a situation where the group seems like they know what they're doing. I've read enough fiction to know if a group thinks they have something under control, they don't.

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but still, something I'm predicting anyway.

If that happens, it's gonna be a mega shame. I really really really REALLY was looking forward to the look on the vampire's face as the memories of his host worked against him.

[Manty5]

I still think the controlling spirit's gonna be Miko, retaining his dual-wield combat prowess and setting up a hostile look at Belkar's backstory.

Both of them strayed from opposite ends of the alignment pool. Perhaps they'll meet in the center.

[Fyraltari]

I still think the controlling spirit's gonna be Miko, retaining his dual-wield combat prowess and setting up a hostile look at Belkar's backstory.

Both of them strayed from opposite ends of the alignment pool. Perhaps they'll meet in the center.

Vampire spirits are made of negative energy and tailored by the localgod of Death from the worst memory of their hosts, not the soul of deceased followers of good Gods.

[zimmerwald1915]

Vampire spirits are made of negative energy and tailored by the localgod of Death from the worst memory of their hosts, not the soul of deceased followers of good Gods.

Also, Belkar is Northern, so Hel would get to craft his vampire spirit. Even if she could use the soul of a dead Southerner, why would she?

[Suicune]

Last breath ever, the Oracle specified, so if your prediction includes "and then Vampire Belkar will be destroyed completely rather than resurrected" it might happen.

If it's intended as a way around the prophecy, with Belkar spending a few days as a vampire and then being resurrected to go on his way with no prophecy of his death, good luck with that.

If it's intended as a way around the prophecy, with Belkar remaining in control of his vampiric body somehow...lots of good luck with that.

Yes, I mean the first. We’ve already seen that there’s basically no way around the prophecies.

[arimareiji]

I think the group's gonna get blindsided somehow (perhaps they missed part of the plan and are assuming they know everything?) and Belkar's going to get vamped here, if I'm honest. The Oracle's prophecy ("Belkar will draw his last breath within the year", probably slightly paraphrased) and Greg's demonstration that vampires don't breathe all seems to line up a little too perfectly in a situation where the group seems like they know what they're doing. I've read enough fiction to know if a group thinks they have something under control, they don't.

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but still, something I'm predicting anyway.

Yup. And someone probably brought it up before me, too. (^_~)

Then I guess the important question becomes: Which works faster, vampire regeneration or acid damage from being in a dinosaur's stomach? (^_~)

~~~~~~~~~~

A thought occurs to me about Belkar; my apologies if it's been pointed out 1500 times before: Vampires don't breathe. (They can imitate it, but it sounds like badly-played bagpipes.)

[Kish]

That was actually breathing. The Oracle didn't say Belkar would draw his last quiet breath before the end of the year.

(That said, forcing air through their lungs is probably something vampires very rarely choose to do.)

[Lord Torath]

Do OotS vampires need to breathe to speak? Vampires in some books only breathe to speak. No need to speak, no breathing.

[arimareiji]

Sounds like Cloud Kill exists already under another name.

FWIW, Cloudkill is chlorine IIRC. Breathing acid would mess your lungs up something awful IRL (mechanically, maybe* 2d6 per round and then X** damage per turn until counteracted), but I don't believe loose protons (what makes acid acid-y) are toxic per se like chlorine.

* - These numbers were pulled out of my netherworld, so please feel free to vary widely.
** - X is the number of rounds you were exposed, up to 20, divided by 2 and rounded up.

That was actually breathing. The Oracle didn't say Belkar would draw his last quiet breath before the end of the year.

(That said, forcing air through their lungs is probably something vampires very rarely choose to do.)

Your mileage may vary, but I'd define "breathing" as circulating air through your lungs so oxygen can get into your blood and CO2 can get out. Dissecting the mechanics of how dead cells perform movement and thought is WAY beyond anything I'd dare to touch, but I'd guess it's fair to say "forcing air through your lungs" (I think you worded it well) is all that happens.

Edit: Sorry for bio-nerding, but the more I think about it, the more I believe Durkula's "bagpiping" is a clear indication breathing wasn't taking place. Our living lungs aren't balloons - they're big bags of smaller bags of smaller bags of smaller bags, in order to maximize surface area for gas exchange. A "collapsed lung" can be deadly because it can only exchange a tiny fraction of the gas a normal living lung could. Forcing air through dried-out, collapsed lungs probably would sound awful.

[Peelee]

Clearly Belkar will become a vampire. It's been so heavily forshadowed it can't not happen. I also believe that V will become a vampire. And Haley. And Elan. The whole Order, really. Also Redcloak. And Jirix, and through them the entire population of Gobbotopia, and through their trade networks the populace of the Empires of Blood, Sweat, and Tears, the elves, the Northern Continent, the Southern Continent, the turtle that holds the flat world on its back (and of course the rest of the turtles all the way down), obviously the gods will be vamped at some point during this whole thing, and so forth.

[Stabbey]

If Belkar was going to be a vampire, the time to pull that trigger was back in Girard's pyramid. Having a fake-out then, and then doing it for real now just won't have the same impact.

[brian 333]

I don't think the Oracle lied or was in any way prevaricating when he prophesized about the death of Belkar. He didn't like Belkar, and he knew Belkar was going to kill him, probably before he even met our beloved psychopath.

I think Belkar will be extinguished, kaput, persona non viva, dead DEAD DEAD!

This is a guy who moved a village just to inconvenience Belkar when he could simply have assassinated him and ignored any repercussions due to the forget effect of the valley. He wanted Belkar to suffer. Why?

Sure, the Oracle is a pseudo-reptilian supremist, but he seems to be a pragmatist as well. Why bother tormenting a mammal he could easily execute?

I think the Oracle knows how Belkar dies, and he knows that after his death there will be no eternal punishment for his many crimes.

I think The Snarl will unmake Belkar, and I think it will be in a moment of true redemption. But that will remove Belkar in every form from the campaign, including his spirit. Like Kraggor, he will be beyond recovery.

I bet 2500 gp that Belkar dies from the touch of The Snarl.