The Elder Scrolls XIV: Good? Bad? I'm the one with the Thu'um!

[Spore]

Prices aren't that weird. Tempering to Legendary quality doubles the value of an item, and only takes one ingot. If you have three ebony ingots, you can (1) create an ebony mace, value 1000, or (2) create an ebony war axe, value 865, and have an ingot left over to temper it - final value 1730, lighter, faster and much stronger than the untempered mace. It doesn't make sense not to.

That is besides my point. I thought you were asking why the merchants didn't sell upgraded stuff...

[LibraryOgre]

That is besides my point. I thought you were asking why the merchants didn't sell upgraded stuff...

Or, for that matter, charge you to upgrade things. "That dagger's a bit dull, boy... how about for 100 gold I touch it up?"

[Triaxx]

Well, there's a mod for that. Honed Steel is the name, and it's rather a lot more than 100 gold.

[veti]

That is besides my point. I thought you were asking why the merchants didn't sell upgraded stuff...

I'm asking why there is no upgraded stuff, in the entire world, except for what I've upgraded myself.

I mean, it's not as if I'm the only one who knows the secret of how to do it. The first two smiths I meet in the game are only too willing to teach the skill to all comers. And yet even they don't do it to their own inventory.

My theory: higher-grade material gear is supposed to be pre-upgraded. Any ebony item is already at least Epic quality, the moment it's forged, and that's supposed to be factored into the higher base value. So you could only make relatively-marginal improvements to it from there, no matter how high your skill.

But at some point that idea got lost. Maybe it was too hard to make the numbers line up, or to configure the ability to work differently on different materials, or maybe it was just that no-one understood it.

[T.G. Oskar]

I'm asking why there is no upgraded stuff, in the entire world, except for what I've upgraded myself.

I mean, it's not as if I'm the only one who knows the secret of how to do it. The first two smiths I meet in the game are only too willing to teach the skill to all comers. And yet even they don't do it to their own inventory.

My theory: higher-grade material gear is supposed to be pre-upgraded. Any ebony item is already at least Epic quality, the moment it's forged, and that's supposed to be factored into the higher base value. So you could only make relatively-marginal improvements to it from there, no matter how high your skill.

But at some point that idea got lost. Maybe it was too hard to make the numbers line up, or to configure the ability to work differently on different materials, or maybe it was just that no-one understood it.

Maybe because you grind it to your taste? Remember that grinding a weapon, or tempering armor to your specifications, essentially alters and damages the weapon. Merchants will want a pristine condition weapon, because it can probably fit anyone. You sell it more because...well, you're the Dragonborn. Any item (even an Iron Dagger) worn by the Dragonborn should cost quite a bit (that's where Speech comes for). Add enchantments and then...

Of course, it doesn't make that much sense, but at least it's an attempt. Pre-sharpened weapons and pre-tempered armor don't exist because it'd make Smithing otherwise useless in perspective; without the ability to sharpen and temper your items, you end up using Smithing to craft them anew, and when you find Ebony Swords and Daedric armor lying just about anywhere because you're the right level for it, Smithing suddenly becomes pointless. Grinding/tempering adds another layer of customization, and since only YOU can do it, it makes Smithing mechanically worthwhile. Just...a wee bit too much.

Playing the Dawnguard quests currently, and...oh boy, Vampirism sounds a whole lot more fun than Werewolves. Mostly because Serana and the vampires revive the dead as NPCs, while you need to turn into a wolf AND get the right totem to summon fellow Werewolves. Plus the fact that Vampires get perks without having to transform, while Werewolves gain no perks unless they transform. Still gonna keep as a 'Wolf, because they fit Warriors as a last-ditch move (Don't get me angry. You won't like me when I'm an--*HOWL!!*).

...And yeah, Horses are made of paper. Fighting on horseback can be a bit annoying, since you must do sweeps and have a good weapon to do something, and maneuvering is where they get you. Plus, they ALWAYS go after your horse. What are the options I heard about horses (something about the Dark Brotherhood or playing through Dawnguard)?

[Spore]

Vampirism sounds a whole lot more fun than Werewolves.

I mean, yeah. But you are not under a transformed/non transformed mechanic but you suffer day and night mechanic which is tedious and atmospheric at the same time. Vampirism is imho only fun with good mods.

But in your case because you have no access to mods and you play a rather valiant hero, I would never give my soul to Hircine or Molag Bal (because that is exactly what you do in exchange for the transformation) and be a vampire hunter. You can get Arvak still (by the way, he is summoned by an apprentice spell so make sure you have 136 magicka or two perks for him) during the questline. When you do the Dark Brotherhood questline - where you get the immortal horse-daedra Shadowmere - you similarly serve the Nightmother and Sithis which means as you will learn that your immortal soul is bound to the darkness between the stars which might not be a perfectly good place to be for all eternity.

On somewhat spiritual characters I always fear about their immortal soul, because attuning yourself to 5-6 afterlives is perhaps unhealthy for your eternal rest.

[Lord Raziere]

On somewhat spiritual characters I always fear about their immortal soul, because attuning yourself to 5-6 afterlives is perhaps unhealthy for your eternal rest.

On clever roguelike characters it perfect though, because when you finally die, the 5-6 afterlives will be confused which one you actually go to, you will be the position to play them against each other and perhaps get an afterlife you want. just as planned.

[Caelestion]

Well, it's almost due to Bethesda being thoroughly lazy and/or their manic desire in Skyrim for you being able to do everything at all times, but clearly the Princes at the very least should comment on how you're giving your soul to more than one of them. Either that or it's your status as the Dragonborn (and thus sworn to Akatosh from birth) that is making each Prince think that they are getting your soul in toto and each one of them will be disappointed.

[Spore]

On clever roguelike characters it perfect though, because when you finally die, the 5-6 afterlives will be confused which one you actually go to, you will be the position to play them against each other and perhaps get an afterlife you want. just as planned.

Or....your soul gets broken into pieces and sent to each one...or an daedra/aedra war breaks out because how incredibly petty these figures can be.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

What are the options I heard about horses (something about the Dark Brotherhood or playing through Dawnguard)?

Shadowmere (Dark Brotherhood) respawns if killed and Arvak is a summon. So no worries about either of them getting killed; they'll be back.

Re: soul, you're kind of doomed no matter what you do in the Dawnguard plotline because if you go vampire you put a hook in your soul for Molag Bal, if you don't you put one in for the Ideal Masters. Though the Thieves Guild is worse in that respect. You don't even get a choice of evils there.

[Spore]

if you don't you put one in for the Ideal Masters.

Really? Well, if you use your foresight of CHIM (actuall look up the guides) the only things the need to be done are Mages' Guild (because it protects Tamriel from a mad mage with the Eye of Magnus) the main questline and both DLCs to save the world and the civil war story to temporarily save Skyrim (on Imperial Side though that is debatable).

[DigoDragon]

I'm reminded of an episode of Teen Titans Go where Raven trades her own soul to Death for the souls of her friends. Because Raven is half-demon, she doesn't have a soul that Death could take, so she essentially tricks him and gets away with it. I always felt this is much like what the Dragonborn is doing to all the princes. You're running the greatest afterlife con game ever.

[Caelestion]

Well, the Daedric Princes appear to be able to withhold their gifts once granted (see: the Thieves' Guild in Skyrim), unlike the Greek gods, but they do appear limited in other ways, mostly not being able to directly affect Mundus. (Azura can put in manifestations and changed the Chimer and Hermaeus Mora can apparently even kill people with his manifestations, but they appear to be very much in the minority.)

Of course, their main interactions are through their cult statues and their cursed artefacts, but despite being explicitly immortal and indestructible agents of chaos, they do seem to be extremely hungry for mortal worship.

[Triaxx]

Well, to be fair, who doesn't love a good minion.

Also if the theory that the Dragonborn is a reincarnation of Talos, then he might not have a soul they can take anyway.

[mythmonster2]

For the Daedric quests / soul dividing problem, weren't there Daedric quests in Morrowind and Oblivion, too? How was doing multiple quests handled in those?

[Caelestion]

The others only (not) getting your soul after your death can be easily explained away. but what's Nocturnal's excuse when you straight-up pledge your soul in return for becoming a Nightingale? (A Nightingale's soul is bound to Mundus in her service until she chooses otherwise.)

If your soul was already sworn to Akatosh or part of Talos, one can only assume that Nocturnal was too busy gloating about new souls to notice that one was far beyond her reach.

As for the Daedric quests, you could do quests for all the Princes except Mehrunes Dagon in Oblivion and only for the seven Good and Bad Daedra in Morrowind. None of them involved giving up your soul though, except of course the shenanigans in the Shivering Isles DLC.

[LibraryOgre]

Your soul is not broken; your soul goes to EVERYONE through a Dragon Break.

[Corsair14]

Just got a new computer that is properly running Skyrim SE. Looking at trying a Vampire build I was reading about on Tamriel Vault. Is the best way to be a Vamp is to go to Serena's dad? What mods out there are good for vamps for SE?
Magic mods?

[Triaxx]

Ordinator's creator who's name I can't spell, also created Sacrosanct, which is a vampire mod, I haven't dug too deeply into it, but it looks cool.

Apocalypse also by the same guy is probably the best Magic Mod I've seen. Only Midas Magic comes close and the Skyrim version never got the polish it deserved.

[The_Jackal]

Just got a new computer that is properly running Skyrim SE. Looking at trying a Vampire build I was reading about on Tamriel Vault. Is the best way to be a Vamp is to go to Serena's dad? What mods out there are good for vamps for SE?
Magic mods?

Yes, you can do the Dawnguard arc to contract vampirism, or If you're in a hurry, you can just find a vampire encounter and then neglect to cure yourself of Sanguinare Vampiris afterward. Obviously, this won't work if you're already immune to disease, but that's pretty easy to avoid. I don't have any mods to recommend, as I think the out-of-box vampirism is pretty good, though I'd recommend you NOT use the unofficial patch, as it "fixes" Vampire Necromage (which honestly doesn't need fixing, imo).

[Caelestion]

Brehanin's Better Vampires is by far the best vampire mod I've used in Skyrim. I'd also recommend some of the same mods that the author does too.

[Rynjin]

I prefer Sacrosanct, or if you wanna go old school (and are up to dealing with some HARDCORE clunkiness) Belua Sanguinare.

Better Vampires is a fun mod, but it makes being a vampire feel more like being an anime protagonist with negligible (if any) downsides. It's the power fantasy vampire, which can be fun, but isn't my cup of tea as much.

Sacrosanct is the vampire with tradeoffs. Great weaknesses, but great potential strengths as well. Sacrosanct has a bit more bite (no pun intended) than Better Vampires as far as showcasing the darker nature of being a night creature that has to feed on the living to survive.

[T.G. Oskar]

I mean, yeah. But you are not under a transformed/non transformed mechanic but you suffer day and night mechanic which is tedious and atmospheric at the same time. Vampirism is imho only fun with good mods.

But in your case because you have no access to mods and you play a rather valiant hero, I would never give my soul to Hircine or Molag Bal (because that is exactly what you do in exchange for the transformation) and be a vampire hunter. You can get Arvak still (by the way, he is summoned by an apprentice spell so make sure you have 136 magicka or two perks for him) during the questline. When you do the Dark Brotherhood questline - where you get the immortal horse-daedra Shadowmere - you similarly serve the Nightmother and Sithis which means as you will learn that your immortal soul is bound to the darkness between the stars which might not be a perfectly good place to be for all eternity.

On somewhat spiritual characters I always fear about their immortal soul, because attuning yourself to 5-6 afterlives is perhaps unhealthy for your eternal rest.

It depends. Personally, my character isn't exactly virtuous - pledging to Daedric Princes is hilariously easy, and he has done two almost-literal backstabs (strike from the back, but not via Sneak to get the additional damage), and he gives no mercy (plus the little misunderstanding when he and his wife almost decimated Markarth's guard because of the thing with the Forsworn and the murders), so whether that leads him into Sovngarde or not is really into question. That, and he already has vampirism, plus the ring of Hircine (hunting the guys who were hunting the other werewolf), so Hircine can have a pretty strong claim...if he gets through Meridia (Dawnbreaker, though I claim I'm not her champion), Sheogorath (but he's crazy, so he'll take that as a joke and will remedy it with a war like that of the Shivering Isles) and Clavicus Vile (hey, Barbas is my pal, because I took him back with his master!), so...

But hey, he has some Blood Knight tendencies, so if he has to fight his way through Sovngarde, well...all the better for him. There's also the thing that you actually get to Sovngarde during the game, IIRC. I can confidently say that neither Namira (killed her cultist) nor the Prince behind the Skull of Corruption are my friends. Nor Azula, because I have The Black Star.

Might actually do a playthrough with an Imperial that chooses to avoid all Daedric quests (even if it'll end up weakening him so), with the exact same build (just gender-flipped).

Shadowmere (Dark Brotherhood) respawns if killed and Arvak is a summon. So no worries about either of them getting killed; they'll be back.

Read that Dragonborn also lets you ride Dragons, via a Thu'um.

Re: soul, you're kind of doomed no matter what you do in the Dawnguard plotline because if you go vampire you put a hook in your soul for Molag Bal, if you don't you put one in for the Ideal Masters. Though the Thieves Guild is worse in that respect. You don't even get a choice of evils there.

Tamriel doesn't really give you a choice in the matter. I mean - between the Daedric Princes alone, and how easy it is to fall prey to just ONE of them (got Vampirism or Lycanthropy by pure chance, and couldn't get in time to cure it or didn't have a Potion of Cure Disease at hand? Sorry - you're not going to Heaven Sovngarde or your choice of, you're bound to one of these guys!), you really have to fight to earn your afterlife. Or be the Dragonborn. Or cheat fate and become the Nerevarine? (And even then, a Daedric Prince was behind that).

Then again, the Champion of Cyrodiil had it worse...

[Caelestion]

Better Vampires is a fun mod, but it makes being a vampire feel more like being an anime protagonist with negligible (if any) downsides. It's the power fantasy vampire, which can be fun, but isn't my cup of tea as much.

I disagree, but even you don't, it's still a much improved experience compared to vanilla, especially with the extensive customisation available.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Really? Well, if you use your foresight of CHIM (actuall look up the guides) the only things the need to be done are Mages' Guild (because it protects Tamriel from a mad mage with the Eye of Magnus) the main questline and both DLCs to save the world and the civil war story to temporarily save Skyrim (on Imperial Side though that is debatable).

With both DLCs you still end up with the vampire vs. Ideal Master choice, since that's part of the main Dawnguard plot (needed to get into Soul Cairn to get Valerica's scroll). Also old Mora's claim on you from Dragonborn.

[Triaxx]

Though you can retrieve the piece of your soul offered up to the Ideal Masters if you like.

[veti]

Well, it's almost due to Bethesda being thoroughly lazy and/or their manic desire in Skyrim for you being able to do everything at all times, but clearly the Princes at the very least should comment on how you're giving your soul to more than one of them. Either that or it's your status as the Dragonborn (and thus sworn to Akatosh from birth) that is making each Prince think that they are getting your soul in toto and each one of them will be disappointed.

I'm hesitant to speculate about the finer points of theology of an imaginary pantheon, which very likely the developers themselves have never thought about too deeply...

But it is possible that "being sworn to X" doesn't preclude you from breaking that oath and aligning with Y instead. After all, we know that Kodlak escapes from his relationship with Hircine, even after death. That - suggests the possibility that none of these deals is irreversible.

And that would mirror real-world mythology, which I won't go into too deeply because rules. But it's a basic tenet of Faustian bargains that they're not nearly as binding as the other party wants you to believe - they rely heavily on trickery and intimidation to make you think you can't escape so that you won't try to, but if you can overcome that and make the attempt anyway, you find it's not as hard as they made out.

[DigoDragon]

Though you can retrieve the piece of your soul offered up to the Ideal Masters if you like.

That's what I did. Doesn't seem like the place was any more dangerous for it neither. Just took myself and went home without any issues.

[Keltest]

I'm hesitant to speculate about the finer points of theology of an imaginary pantheon, which very likely the developers themselves have never thought about too deeply...

But it is possible that "being sworn to X" doesn't preclude you from breaking that oath and aligning with Y instead. After all, we know that Kodlak escapes from his relationship with Hircine, even after death. That - suggests the possibility that none of these deals is irreversible.

And that would mirror real-world mythology, which I won't go into too deeply because rules. But it's a basic tenet of Faustian bargains that they're not nearly as binding as the other party wants you to believe - they rely heavily on trickery and intimidation to make you think you can't escape so that you won't try to, but if you can overcome that and make the attempt anyway, you find it's not as hard as they made out.

As a rule of thumb, the Daedric Princes don't take kindly to that sort of behavior. They may not be able to touch you if you go to Akatosh or whatever the heck happens to a dragonborn soul, but until you do, youre still alive, and still technically theirs. They can take you to Oblivion and do whatever they want to you without killing you. Look at what happened to Miirak.

[Anteros]

I don't know why everyone is so tied up in the idea that there aren't consequences for your actions. Why can't it just be that your soul goes to whoever you sold it to after you die? People seem convinced that there must be some sort of happy ending for their PC, but I don't see why that necessarily has to be the case if you willingly sold your character's soul to a known evil entity. Just because you sold your soul to 6 evil guys instead of 1 doesn't make the end result any happier.

If you don't want your PC to have an unhappy ending, maybe just don't sell their soul for crappy mid-tier artifacts that you probably don't even need.