The Elder Scrolls XIV: Good? Bad? I'm the one with the Thu'um!

[Triaxx]

I understand the difference. You're confusing the lack of understanding with reducto ad absurdum. The point I was making is that you're never going to get and should not strive for that perfect balance. It makes things boring. Having all choices be equal is essentially stripping away all choice.

[Rynjin]

I understand the difference. You're confusing the lack of understanding with reducto ad absurdum. The point I was making is that you're never going to get and should not strive for that perfect balance. It makes things boring. Having all choices be equal is essentially stripping away all choice.

And yet the perfect should not be the enemy of the good. Completely ignoring balance is just as bad as hyperfocusing on it. And of the two it's the more likely bad outcome.

[The_Jackal]

I understand the difference. You're confusing the lack of understanding with reducto ad absurdum. The point I was making is that you're never going to get and should not strive for that perfect balance. It makes things boring. Having all choices be equal is essentially stripping away all choice.

Nobody is advocating perfect equality. Merely interesting trade-offs in lieu of options which are objectively and unambiguously inferior. There is, simply no manner in which cloth armor + skin spells are remotely competitive with heavy or light armor.

[veti]

Gotta disagree, because of two words: Quest Log.

The Bloodmoon expansion did a pretty good job of fixing Morrowind's quest log. Overall, though, the quest log is the one area where I would award top honours to Oblivion. With Morrowind in second place, and Skyrim a very distant third.

[Triaxx]

There's the problem, the idea that robes+spells MUST be competitive. The thought that 'I must be able to stand and fight wearing nothing but robes and using some magic, the same as someone in purpose made heavy armor.' NO. Not only is that completely nuts, but also it again goes back to that idea that everything must be as identical as possible.

There's no reason for it, when robes+spells is designed for a completely different style of play. If you don't have the full armor, there's no reason for you to be standing at the front of the battle trying to block swords with your face.

This is the same kind of argument that leads to a mages guild anyone can enter without ever having cast a spell. A thieves guild that lets you just butcher everything in your path. The idea that no path should ever be closed to you.

[Rynjin]

There's the problem, the idea that robes+spells MUST be competitive. The thought that 'I must be able to stand and fight wearing nothing but robes and using some magic, the same as someone in purpose made heavy armor.' NO. Not only is that completely nuts, but also it again goes back to that idea that everything must be as identical as possible.

There's no reason for it, when robes+spells is designed for a completely different style of play. If you don't have the full armor, there's no reason for you to be standing at the front of the battle trying to block swords with your face.

This is the same kind of argument that leads to a mages guild anyone can enter without ever having cast a spell. A thieves guild that lets you just butcher everything in your path. The idea that no path should ever be closed to you.

Thankfully, the only one making this argument is you.

Everybody else says robes need to be competitive. As in, there needs to be a reason to take the option.

Only you have misunderstood what the word "competitive" means and confused it with the word "homogenous" again.

I suppose you'll claim it's reduction rather than misunderstanding again, but either way you don't seem to be quite following the conversation at hand.

[The_Jackal]

There's the problem, the idea that robes+spells MUST be competitive. The thought that 'I must be able to stand and fight wearing nothing but robes and using some magic, the same as someone in purpose made heavy armor.' NO. Not only is that completely nuts, but also it again goes back to that idea that everything must be as identical as possible.

Let's invert the valence of this argument and see how it holds up, shall we? "There's the problem, the idea that robes+spells MUST be inferior." If A > B, B < A, right? Can we agree of the basic principles of algebra at least?

No one is arguing for symmetry. We're advocating for creative and interesting asymmetry, rather than just 'B < A'.

[Keltest]

Let's invert the valence of this argument and see how it holds up, shall we? "There's the problem, the idea that robes+spells MUST be inferior." If A > B, B < A, right? Can we agree of the basic principles of algebra at least?

No one is arguing for symmetry. We're advocating for creative and interesting asymmetry, rather than just 'B < A'.

Ok, but then what does that translate to? If theyre filling the protective role like armor does, then they need something that makes you want to choose them over wearing full plate (or light armor, once you hit a high enough level). Right now the only thing they really have going for them is weight, which isn't much of an issue for most of the game. So you have to branch out and start doing totally different things than wearing armor, at which point we run into the same issue of "why wear full plate when you can cast a spell and be just as protected, and also have the benefits of robes?"

[Triaxx]

No, I'm following the conversation quite well thank you. I'm arguing that you're failing to comprehend why what you're arguing for is wrong.

Not being armor they don't incur a movement penalty, nor do they incur a penalty to stealth.

There's no perk investment to make them stronger, in exchange for relying on magic to do the task.

Doubling the protection provided by the spells requires 3 perks invested, instead of 5.

Improving the protection has you going out and casting the spell when enemies are present, instead of spending hours making jewelry at a crafting station. Then you simply buy up the next level of defense and can continue adventuring.

And no need to try and maintain a matched set to get full benefit. Nor any need to have a full face covering helmet.

Honestly, with all those advantages, I find it hard to imagine why you'd suffocate yourself in armor.

[Aeson]

Ok, but then what does that translate to? If theyre filling the protective role like armor does, then they need something that makes you want to choose them over wearing full plate (or light armor, once you hit a high enough level). Right now the only thing they really have going for them is weight, which isn't much of an issue for most of the game. So you have to branch out and start doing totally different things than wearing armor, at which point we run into the same issue of "why wear full plate when you can cast a spell and be just as protected, and also have the benefits of robes?"

On top of that, the spells are a semi-active defense (you need to cast the spell to get the benefits, and the spell is only active for a certain duration) that costs resources (magicka and casting time) to use, whereas armor is essentially a fully passive defense (you'll always benefit from its bonus) with no ongoing resource costs to make use of its baseline effects.

Arguably, that Alteration does more than just provide armor-like protection helps balance things, but honestly, aside from the armor spells, Skyrim's Alteration spells strike me as rather situational, especially if you don't like running with companions or summoned minions.

[The_Jackal]

No, I'm following the conversation quite well thank you. I'm arguing that you're failing to comprehend why what you're arguing for is wrong.

Because it isn't.

Not being armor they don't incur a movement penalty, nor do they incur a penalty to stealth.

Do you even notice the movement penalty when wearing heavier armor? I certainly don't. And what low-level caster is relying on stealth, when you've got to blow your ambush by casting your skin spell at the outset of a fight, or worse, go unarmored until you hard cast your skin spell during open combat.

There's no perk investment to make them stronger, in exchange for relying on magic to do the task.

Doubling the protection provided by the spells requires 3 perks invested, instead of 5.

To get the equivalent silent protection of armor, you need 50 points in the illusion school, plus 4 perk points, compared to 3 perk points for unhindered in the light armor tree, or 4 from heavy armor's conditioning perk. And at that point, you've still got to spend magicka and time to apply a skin spell, whereas armor simply works, passively, all the time.

Improving the protection has you going out and casting the spell when enemies are present, instead of spending hours making jewelry at a crafting station. Then you simply buy up the next level of defense and can continue adventuring.

A process which is incredibly lucrative, and comparatively trivial. Besides, it's not as if a caster build that wants to scale like a physical build isn't going to dump an equivalent amount of time into collecting and crafting alchemy reagents for their fortify <school> potions that they'll be main-lining throughout the game.

And no need to try and maintain a matched set to get full benefit. Nor any need to have a full face covering helmet.

While matched set will lower the bar of how much crafting you'll need to undertake to cap your armor, you can still quite easily mix and match and still cap out. It just takes more effort.

Honestly, with all those advantages, I find it hard to imagine why you'd suffocate yourself in armor.

Because it's better. It's on passively, all the time. It doesn't require resources or time in combat to activate, it doesn't suddenly vanish at an inopportune time. Simply put, the opportunity costs of going unarmored are not worth it. There is no build that I can imagine that can't be made better by the inclusion of armor. Not using it is objectively a handicap.

[Rynjin]

Not being armor they don't incur a movement penalty, nor do they incur a penalty to stealth.

Both being largely irrelevant, particularly the latter. Don't pretend like you don't know how broken Skyrim's stealth is.

There's no perk investment to make them stronger, in exchange for relying on magic to do the task.

Doubling the protection provided by the spells requires 3 perks invested, instead of 5.

You contradict yourself here. Regardless, requiring three perks for an inferior benefit is not an upside. You get less output for a more cumbersome input.

Improving the protection has you going out and casting the spell when enemies are present, instead of spending hours making jewelry at a crafting station. Then you simply buy up the next level of defense and can continue adventuring.

You're really reaching for upsides here. I'm not sure what you hope to gain with this line of argument. The time spent on acquiring an inferior level of defense may be less, but it's more cumbersome and slow in the moment. That is a downside, not an upside.

And no need to try and maintain a matched set to get full benefit. Nor any need to have a full face covering helmet.

Again, not having an upside is...not an advantage. You're operating on anti-logic at this point, claiming that having less benefit is an advantage because you require less investment to get no benefit.

This is like saying investing in the stock market is completely pointless because it requires research to gain a benefit; as opposed to simply not making any money at all which requires no time spent on your end. It's ludicrous.

[Triaxx]

Okay fine, you win. Robes are useless.

[Keltest]

Speaking of... um... not this...

I'm considering starting a new morrowind run. Can anyone recommend me some basic quality of life mods to help with things like magicka regen so I can actually cast spells with some regularity, and other things like that you guys think are helpful?

[veti]

Not being armor they don't incur a movement penalty, nor do they incur a penalty to stealth.

And there's the real problem, in my mind at least..

The supposed disadvantages of heavy armour, other than weight, are barely noticeable. You can jump and swim and run at almost the same speed, without even tiring. You can sneak just fine. There's no concept of flexibility or being able to squeeze into narrow spaces. It doesn't even take any longer to get dressed.

Possibly, at some design stage, someone had a dream of doing some of those things differently. But then they ran into the inane "never prevent any character from doing anything" rule, and understandably gave up.

There are only two really important variables to armour: protection and weight. There is some meaningful tradeoff between those two. But everything else is irrelevant, and just two variables isn't enough to support three different styles.

[Keltest]

And there's the real problem, in my mind at least..

The supposed disadvantages of heavy armour, other than weight, are barely noticeable. You can jump and swim and run at almost the same speed, without even tiring. You can sneak just fine. There's no concept of flexibility or being able to squeeze into narrow spaces. It doesn't even take any longer to get dressed.

Possibly, at some design stage, someone had a dream of doing some of those things differently. But then they ran into the inane "never prevent any character from doing anything" rule, and understandably gave up.

There are only two really important variables to armour: protection and weight. There is some meaningful tradeoff between those two. But everything else is irrelevant, and just two variables isn't enough to support three different styles.

I think the original intent here was that the perk system would add additional knobs to twist and levers to pull. Once youre trained in heavy armor, you can pick some abilities that let you do new and interesting things with it that you cant do with light armor or robes.

For example, wearing heavy gauntlets increases your unarmed damage. That is interesting, and if it scaled better with weapon damage, would unlock an entirely new style of play. But they dropped the ball, really hard. Most of the perks are some flavor of "have more armor" which is fairly meaningless when you can make something as low as elven armor hit the armor cap, especially for heavy armor, which reaches it that much easier.

[Triaxx]

So... I finally stumbled across the last word of Drain Vitality. That was extremely well hidden.

All the way down at Arcwind Point which I'm not even sure everyone knows is there.

[Balmas]

To my mind, the problem stems from how the -Flesh spells are handled; they're all done in terms of armor and damage resistance, which means they're directly comparable to other systems of armor. When everything's expressed in terms of armor, Flesh spels can't help but come out unfavorably. They start out weak and don't scale very well until you hit 90 Alteration, and then abruptly you can hit the armor cap. Even then, the fact that you need to pay an upkeep cost on the order of 1000 magicka every 45 seconds means that most people will stick with the armor that does the same thing passively, and doesn't require you to spend however long it takes to get 90 Alteration with barely half the protection you could get from decently smithed armor.

Consider Morrowind's versions of protection for a mage. You could summon actual weightless Daedric armor, of course, which required no skill in armor, didn't slow you down, didn't cost extra fatigue to run in, and didn't carry the same 100-300ish pound hit to carry weight that you'd get from heavy armor. This was appealing, because in Morrowind, different kinds of armor actually had tangible, noticeable downsides attached to them, unlike in Skyrim. However, that wasn't your only option. You could put up a Sanctuary spell, and have a much greater chance to dodge your enemy's attack. You could Levitate or Jump to a bit of convenient level architecture from which to rain down destruction spells and spear stabs. Failing that, you could blind your enemies, or drain their agility so they stumble, or simply Fortify your speed to the point that you could outrun them. You had your pick of how to avoid taking damage, any one of which was both competitive with and distinct from simply wearing armor.

If I were to redesign the -Flesh series of spells, I would do my utmost to stay away from armor entirely. Instead, I'd try to make each Flesh spell its own, new flavor of damage reduction. Maybe you'd have one that is just a speed fortification, so you can outrun and dodge around your enemies, while another gives you a chance to absorb incoming damage and return it as Magicka, Atronach stone style. Maybe we borrow from Payday 2's perk decks, and have spells that turn damage dealt into health returned, or just have an entire line of spells based around "you run so fast that you're dodging bullets like Neo in the Matrix." The point is, these Flesh spells should be more interesting and present more alternatives than just "You pay upkeep for armor."

[Keltest]

Another thing is that to actually use heavy armor effectively, you had to work for it. A level one character could, theoretically, put on a full suit of daedric armor and be functionally invulnerable to the things theyre going to be fighting. If they did that however, they probably couldn't move. Getting enough strength to effectively wear heavy armor and still be able to carry, well, anything, meant that you had to sacrifice somewhere else, like, say, willpower. In Skyrim, that tradeoff isn't really there. You can stick loot on your packmule follower, add enchantments to jewelry, and eventually you can just straight up negate the weight of your worn armor. And even the heaviest armors only take up like a third of your default carrying capacity. Wearing armor in skyrim actively makes it easier to wear armor over time.

[DigoDragon]

So... I finally stumbled across the last word of Drain Vitality. That was extremely well hidden.

All the way down at Arcwind Point which I'm not even sure everyone knows is there.

Huh, I didn't know that was there. Added by Dawnguard it seems. Well, good to know when I come back to the game!

[Triaxx]

Honestly I think SkyRe's versions of the Flesh spells had the right idea. They each offered something extra, which in theory could be triggered by a perk, but mostly just worked randomly. Oakflesh provided bonus resistance to shock I think, and Stoneflesh had a random chance to give Feather. It gave them a little something extra without being just more numbers.

[Aeson]

In Skyrim, that tradeoff isn't really there. You can ... add enchantments to jewelry, and eventually you can just straight up negate the weight of your worn armor.

Technically, these were possible in Morrowind, and arguably Morrowind is worse about the enchanted trinkets since you can get on-use and constant effect on self enchantments from a hell of a lot more stuff in Morrowind (pants, shirt, robe, boots, two gauntlets/gloves, two pauldrons, greaves, chest piece, helmet, shield, weapon, two rings, one amulet - 18 items total) than in the later games (feet, legs, body, hands, head, shield, two rings, one amulet - 9 items total), and items in Morrowind also weren't restricted to single-effect enchantments. Granted, this was offset by enchanting services being ludicrously expensive for even fairly minor effects, by it being ludicrously difficult to do enchanting yourself without resorting to exploit-like tactics, and by not all items being able to carry similarly powerful enchantments.

Consider Morrowind's versions of protection for a mage. You could summon actual weightless Daedric armor, of course, which required no skill in armor, didn't slow you down, didn't cost extra fatigue to run in, and didn't carry the same 100-300ish pound hit to carry weight that you'd get from heavy armor. This was appealing, because in Morrowind, different kinds of armor actually had tangible, noticeable downsides attached to them, unlike in Skyrim. However, that wasn't your only option. You could put up a Sanctuary spell, and have a much greater chance to dodge your enemy's attack. You could Levitate or Jump to a bit of convenient level architecture from which to rain down destruction spells and spear stabs. Failing that, you could blind your enemies, or drain their agility so they stumble, or simply Fortify your speed to the point that you could outrun them. You had your pick of how to avoid taking damage, any one of which was both competitive with and distinct from simply wearing armor.

Also Burden (typically not cost-effective), Fortify Health (dangerous since you'll die if you don't have more HP than the effect magnitude when the effect wears off), Drain/Damage/Absorb Strength, Shield, Paralyze, Demoralize Creature/Humanoid and Turn Undead, Frenzy, Chameleon, and Invisibility. Situationally, Water Walking and Lock could also help. Arguably also [Element] Shield and Absorb Health.

If I were to redesign the -Flesh series of spells, I would do my utmost to stay away from armor entirely. Instead, I'd try to make each Flesh spell its own, new flavor of damage reduction. Maybe you'd have one that is just a speed fortification, so you can outrun and dodge around your enemies, while another gives you a chance to absorb incoming damage and return it as Magicka, Atronach stone style. Maybe we borrow from Payday 2's perk decks, and have spells that turn damage dealt into health returned, or just have an entire line of spells based around "you run so fast that you're dodging bullets like Neo in the Matrix." The point is, these Flesh spells should be more interesting and present more alternatives than just "You pay upkeep for armor."

I certainly wouldn't mind seeing the Xflesh spells gain interesting riders in addition to or in place of their +Armor effect (especially if it also meant that there were a greater variety of useful spells available; I realize Morrowid and Oblivion did it too, but I don't greatly care for the Novice Fireball, Apprentice Fireball, Adept Fireball, Expert Fireball, Master Fireball approach that a lot of spells, including the XFlesh line, take) but I'd be okay with them remaining as just +Armor effects if the bonus scaled decently with skill rather than being entirely determined by which spell you're using and what perks you have.

Honestly I think SkyRe's versions of the Flesh spells had the right idea. They each offered something extra, which in theory could be triggered by a perk, but mostly just worked randomly. Oakflesh provided bonus resistance to shock I think, and Stoneflesh had a random chance to give Feather. It gave them a little something extra without being just more numbers.

Personally, I don't care much for "chance of [effect] on cast" as a rider and I think it's a terrible way to balance options against one another, especially if the chance of getting the rider is low or the rider is only of much use if consistently obtained (e.g. Feather).

[Caelestion]

I'm considering starting a new morrowind run. Can anyone recommend me some basic quality of life mods to help with things like magicka regen so I can actually cast spells with some regularity, and other things like that you guys think are helpful?

This is my list of mod folders for OpenMW. You should find some inspiration in there, at least.

Spoiler

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data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Classic Mods\Dwemer_Clock_Alternative_v12"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Classic Mods\Featherweight Soul Gems for Sale"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Classic Mods\Freed Slaves"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Classic Mods\Imperial Legion Badge"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Classic Mods\Quick Char and DB Delayer"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Classic Mods\Teleportation Spells"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Dialogue mods\Alternate Messages V1.4"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Dialogue mods\Dagoth_Gares_Voice_addon_v11"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Dialogue mods\DjangosDialogue1_3-37328-1-3"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Dialogue mods\Expanded Dialogue"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Dialogue mods\LGNPC_merged_lt"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Dialogue mods\Lich Barilzar Voice Addon"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Dialogue mods\NastierCamonnaTong_12-22601"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Dremora in Morrowind\PlayableDremora-v11-21149"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Dremora in Morrowind\Psy Dremora v2 - Darknut"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Dremora in Morrowind\Quest - Love in the Time of Daedra-43635-1-01"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Dungeons and Factions\Faction_Living_Quarters-40702-v1-00"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Dungeons and Factions\MagicalMissions-38773-1-1"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Dungeons and Factions\Of Dungeons and Abodes -44253"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Dungeons and Factions\Of Justice and Innocence 1.31 MR -34046"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\GCD Lean v2.0.4a"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Graphic Herbalism v1.3a -43140\Graphic Herbalism (Tamriel Data 03) -43829-2-2"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Graphic Herbalism v1.3a -43140\Graphic Herbalism -43140-1-3a"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Houses and Stores\Baratheons Businesses"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Houses and Stores\BB2 Falconer Leather"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Houses and Stores\Buyable Hlaalo Manor"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Houses and Stores\Carnithus Armamentarium Complete-3906"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Houses and Stores\Dramatic Vivec 4.2.1-43385-4-2-1"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Houses and Stores\IndyBank v2.4 -14887"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\HUD and UI mods\Better Dialogue Font-36873"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\HUD and UI mods\Crosshair - Battlespire Subtle Dot -43135"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\HUD and UI mods\HD Intro Cinematic"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\HUD and UI mods\Modern User Interface-42526-1-0"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Main Menu Replacers\Menu - Vivec and Ordinator -43923-2-0"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Marbred Magic Border Icon Replacers\MMBIR - Stars"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Marbred Magic Border Icon Replacers\Subtle Magic Glow - Fade -4468"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Mesh Replacers\Akulakhan Replacer-42855-4"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Mesh Replacers\Apel fire retexture v2-42554-v2"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Mesh Replacers\Dunmer Lanterns Replacer 9.0-43219-9-0"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Mesh Replacers\Kalamestaris Compiled Mods"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Mesh Replacers\Mesh Improvements Optimized v1.4"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Mesh Replacers\RR - Better Books v1 -43266"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Mesh Replacers\RR - Better Frescoes V1.1 -43266"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Mesh Replacers\RR - Better Meshes v1.2 -43266"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Mesh Replacers\RR - Better Potions -43266"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Meshes and Textures for OpenMW - Flash3113\Clannfear Replacer - OpenMW-45173-1-0"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Meshes and Textures for OpenMW - Flash3113\Divayth Fyr Puzzle Fixed-45155-1-0"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Meshes and Textures for OpenMW - Flash3113\Dwemer Puzzle Box - OpenMW-45006-1-0"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Meshes and Textures for OpenMW - Flash3113\Ice Blade of the Monarch - OpenMW-45062-1-0"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Meshes and Textures for OpenMW - Flash3113\Ingredients Mesh Replacer 2.2-44067-2-2\Data Files"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Meshes and Textures for OpenMW - Flash3113\Mehrunes' Razor - OpenMW-44792-1-0"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Meshes and Textures for OpenMW - Flash3113\Stronghold Retexture-43948-1-0"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Morrowind Rebirth v4.3 -37795\Data Files"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Multiple Teleport Marking Mod (OpenMW - TR etc) -44825-1-3"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Music\Baldur's Gate"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Music\Divine Divinity"
data="J:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Splash Compilation\Bloodmoon"
data="J:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Splash Compilation\Cities and Ruins"
data="J:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Splash Compilation\Community Pack"
data="J:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Splash Compilation\Concept Art Based Splashes v1.0 -43603"
data="J:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Splash Compilation\HD Concept Splashes -43081-1-0"
data="J:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Splash Compilation\HD_2K_Splash -44490"
data="J:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Splash Compilation\Lost Splashes"
data="J:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Splash Compilation\Lovely Loading Screens -42313-1-0"
data="J:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Splash Compilation\Morrowind"
data="J:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Splash Compilation\Tamriel Rebuilt"
data="J:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Splash Compilation\Tribunal"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Roberts Bodies v0-3 -43138\Robert's Bodies"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Roberts Bodies v0-3 -43138\RB Bosmer and Orcish Females"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Tamriel Data (HD)-44537-04"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Tamriel Rebuilt 16.12\Skyrim_Main Beta-44921-02"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Tamriel Rebuilt 16.12\Stirk PC_Main Beta-44922-01"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Tamriel Rebuilt 16.12\Tamriel Rebuilt 16.12-42145-16-12"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Tamriel Rebuilt 16.12\Tamriel Rebuilt Guilds Unified-44656-1-0"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Tamriel Rebuilt 16.12\TR Data OpenMW - Patch for version 03-44537-01"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Telvanni mods\Building Up Uvirith's Legacy"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Telvanni mods\Propylons_1.3"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Telvanni mods\Rise of House Telvanni v1-52_-27525"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Telvanni mods\Uviriths_Legacy_3.52"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Textures - Books and Scrolls\Arukinns Textures - Books and Scrolls-43100-1-0"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Textures - Books and Scrolls\Arukinns Journal with AST Bookmark and Vurts Scroll 2"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Textures - Books and Scrolls\BooksofVvardenfell_2.41"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Textures - Clothes and Robes\Better Clothes compilation"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Textures - Clothes and Robes\Better Robes 0-3-1 and Robes Overhaul"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Textures - Connary\- Connarys Caves and Sewers"
data="C:\Games\OpenMW Mods\Textures - Connary\- Connarys Landscapes"
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[Balmas]

Here's a quick question, kinda building on the above: When my PC bricked itself a while back, I managed to save the files for my Morrowind install to an external harddrive. I'm working to get it back together so I can continue my Chord Let's Play. Since I'm going to have to redo all my mods anyway, I was debating whether I should rebuild it as it was--with MGE/MGSO--or whether I should make the jump towards OpenMW.

The question is, how compatible are the two? Can saves be transferred over to OpenMW? Can regular Morrowind mods be used with OpenMW? I've done a cursory read through the OpenMW site, without many answers.

[Temotei]

Honestly I think SkyRe's versions of the Flesh spells had the right idea. They each offered something extra, which in theory could be triggered by a perk, but mostly just worked randomly. Oakflesh provided bonus resistance to shock I think, and Stoneflesh had a random chance to give Feather. It gave them a little something extra without being just more numbers.

I preferred PerMa's version, which as far as I remember, didn't have any chance-based effects. Stoneflesh had damage reduction vs. arrows or something, Oakflesh gave bonus stamina regen, I think, etc.

Of course, their armor values stayed the same, so there was little reason to use Oakflesh by the time you hit Ironflesh even if you did like the stamina regen effect.

But yeah, as is, flesh spells are better on people who have armor already to supplement their value rather than for dedicated mages.

EDIT: I'd also like to note that Dragonhide is still better on armored characters than it is for mages because it doesn't give armor--it gives straight damage reduction, which stacks with armor's damage reduction.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Here's a quick question, kinda building on the above: When my PC bricked itself a while back, I managed to save the files for my Morrowind install to an external harddrive. I'm working to get it back together so I can continue my Chord Let's Play. Since I'm going to have to redo all my mods anyway, I was debating whether I should rebuild it as it was--with MGE/MGSO--or whether I should make the jump towards OpenMW.

The question is, how compatible are the two? Can saves be transferred over to OpenMW? Can regular Morrowind mods be used with OpenMW? I've done a cursory read through the OpenMW site, without many answers.

Depends on what mods you used to use. A lot of them aren't needed anymore, because rendering already works in the new engine, and resolutions are automatically a thing up to 4k. So a lot of things MGE/MGSO were needed to do are no longer needed, because the engine handles them innately. However, I don't think the save files themselves are compatible. They might be, but they also might not be. It might be easier to simply start anew.

Having said that, there was zero balance in Morrowind when it came to protection. This is, after all, the game in which clothing was far better than any armor, because you could enchant up pieces that added up to 100% Sanctuary and be literally invulnerable, without hacks or cheats. And it really isn't all that difficult with the Summon Golden Saint spell. Alternately, you could go for 100% Chameleon and be literally invisible, even to things which can see invisible. Or you could go Atronach sign then enchant up the other 50% spell absorb to be not only immune to spells, but actually heal magika from them.

[veti]

I think the original intent here was that the perk system would add additional knobs to twist and levers to pull. Once youre trained in heavy armor, you can pick some abilities that let you do new and interesting things with it that you cant do with light armor or robes.

IMO, it would be more interesting if heavy armour just protected you better, and the new flavourful feats were added to the others...

There's some evidence that originally the armour cap was supposed to be different for light and heavy armour, but that wasn't implemented. Would be a good start, I think - set the cap at, say, 50% for light armour. But that would require creating some real compensatory bonuses for light armour (such as a significant speed or fatigue penalty for heavy armour), and clearly that ran against the ethos that said "Never, ever, ever under any circumstances or pretext whatsoever, penalise the player for anything".

[Aeson]

Or you could go Atronach sign then enchant up the other 50% spell absorb to be not only immune to spells, but actually heal magika from them.

This is true for Oblivion, but believing this in Morrowind is a good way to get your character killed. 50 points of spell absorption from Atronach plus 50 points of spell absorbtion from other sources only absorbs at most 75% of incoming magic in Morrowind, and if your 50 points from other sources is split between multiple other sources more of the incoming magic will get through. If you wanted to be immune to magic, you'd need to have a way to get 100 points of spell absorption from a single source, or you'd need a total of 100 points of reflect from any combination of sources (note: does not protect against your own spells if they get reflected back at you), or in theory you could get 100% resistance to each of the four elements and magicka.

This is, after all, the game in which clothing was far better than any armor, because you could enchant up pieces that added up to 100% Sanctuary and be literally invulnerable, without hacks or cheats.

Even if you used all eight non-weapon, non-armor slots to get Sanctuary, you'd need on average 12.5% Sanctuary per slot. Assuming we're talking about constant effect items, that's about 65 enchanting points per item, or -325 percentage points to your enchant success chance. With 100 skill in Enchant, 100 Intelligence, and 100 Luck, you're looking at a -187.5% chance of successfully creating that item without going to an Enchanter. Even with Fortify Enchant 100, Fortify Intelligence 100, and Fortify Luck 100, you're still looking at a -50% chance of successfully creating that item yourself, and you'd need another 200 Intelligence before you hit a 0% chance of creating the item successfully on your own.

It isn't literally impossible without hacks or cheats because Alchemy and Enchant have positive feedback loops that you can exploit, but I strongly suspect that making something like that without exploiting those positive feedback loops (particularly Alchemy's for potions of intelligence +lots) would be very nearly impossible and probably have a success rate so low as to be effectively impossible, and crafting it through an Enchanter would be exorbitantly expensive.

[Triaxx]

37th lesson of Vivec: thou shalt save scum for thy life depends upon it.

I didn't mean as a chance effect, but as a bonus power on top of the protection already offered.

[Caelestion]

The question is, how compatible are the two? Can saves be transferred over to OpenMW? Can regular Morrowind mods be used with OpenMW? I've done a cursory read through the OpenMW site, without many answers.

As Shneekey notes, it's better to start a new save file with OpenMW, but you could always try transferring it and seeing what happens. OpenMW uses a different save format, I believe, and certainly a different plug-in (".omw") format, but it should be possible to rename certain .omw files to .esp files and still run them through the original CS.

OpenMW has fixed various issues and comes with optional several upgrades that you can activate by altering the main config file. Certain mods aren't compatible, but the wiki has a fairly extensive list of popular mods and how they interact with OpenMW as a whole.