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  1. - Top - End - #811
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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    For Miz it didn't seem so urgent a battle at first to go monster, but between Elliania getting squashed and the king-size tumbling down the stairs, holding back doesn't seem that smart anymore.

    Also I don't want to be beaten to death by a bed.

    I'm actually sort of wondering how common alchemists are, and specifically opinions about their mutagen features, I haven't done alot of reading of pathfinder lore so I haven't encountered anything on it.

  2. - Top - End - #812
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    Inspectre's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    Update posted!
    "Beaten to death by a bed" does seem like a rather Nethack way to go.

    Silas gets an AoO, and the kettle misses Dalen and lands in G4, right on top of the carpet's corpse (I'll replace it in the next map update).
    The kettle does not have a melee attack, so Dalen is not threatened by this, save he nearly got brained by a flying teapot.

    Silas also bombed all of his Perception rolls, save this last one, when he pulled out a nat 20.

    Your move!
    Last edited by Inspectre; 2018-12-20 at 06:50 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #813
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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Steveodore View Post
    I'm actually sort of wondering how common alchemists are, and specifically opinions about their mutagen features, I haven't done alot of reading of pathfinder lore so I haven't encountered anything on it.
    Alchemists are pretty common in Golarion. I'm not sure if there's anywhere that says exactly how common, but they show up pretty frequently in various resources. I believe the only classes the designers have specifically singled out as rare are the Summoner and Gunslinger, which they're on record as having said are so uncommon that most people have never even heard of them.

  4. - Top - End - #814
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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    Also, Dr. Reiner is an alchemist so even if they were rare normally the castle people (ileosa/Sabrina/elliana) are familiar with at least the basics. Elliana's relative lack of reaction to miz's transformation might also imply what specific type of alchemist Dr. Reiner is as well.

    Also enlarge is a full round to cast, although since it's on a scroll I think that collaspes it down to a single standard action. So dalen can hold his action I guess until elliana's next turn when she is able to move away since she moved up to tag Miz with heroism this turn.
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  5. - Top - End - #815
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    Darvin's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Inspectre View Post
    Also enlarge is a full round to cast, although since it's on a scroll I think that collaspes it down to a single standard action.
    Correct; scrolls are always standard action casting. It's no coincidence that I carry this spell in scroll form rather than prepped.

    So dalen can hold his action I guess until elliana's next turn when she is able to move away since she moved up to tag Miz with heroism this turn.
    Alternately Dalen can take a step back and Miz can enlarge to take up the H and I columns as opposed to I and J columns. That will leave Elliana in the corner of the room, but you can freely move through an ally's space so she can still get out on her next turn so it doesn't change much for her defensively.

  6. - Top - End - #816
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    Inspectre's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    Fair enough. I'm always forgetting that enlarge person is a full round of casting like summoning so I try to comment on that whenever it comes up so I remember it. Good idea on the scroll - restoration spells are also a good thing to scroll/wand since it's a THREE ROUND cast time on those. O_o.

    Wasnt there an old version on enlarge person that just pushed people back out of your way as you grew larger? Was that an old 3.5 thing?
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  7. - Top - End - #817
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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Inspectre View Post
    Wasnt there an old version on enlarge person that just pushed people back out of your way as you grew larger? Was that an old 3.5 thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Enlarge Person
    If insufficient room is available for the desired growth, the creature attains the maximum possible size and may make a Strength check (using its increased Strength) to burst any enclosures in the process.
    The text is identical in both the 3.5 and PF version.
    The obstruction in this case is Elliana, who has her back to a wall. You're the GM so ultimately you're the one who calls how this works (since the spell doesn't specify what happens when the obstruction is a creature) but it doesn't sound particularly wise in any event.
    Last edited by Darvin; 2018-12-20 at 02:55 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #818
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    Stelio Kontos's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    If Miz steps back 5', can't she occupy H&I 4&5 once enlarged, Elliana can stay right there, and obviously I'll have to move as well as Dalen?
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  9. - Top - End - #819
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    Stelio Kontos's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    Tried a, uh, rather unorthodox combat maneuver. Given that I rolled a 3, I'm pretty sure it didn't work. Perhaps it will give someone else an idea.
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  10. - Top - End - #820
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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    If it wasn't for the fact that Aliani was a 90 pound weakling, that would have worked well.
    The kettle could still try to escape, of course, but it completely lacks a melee attack and it's small, so it's CMD/CMB is crap.
    That won't actually destroy it, of course, but it will certainly keep it from trying to slam into Dalen again.

    Which also reminds me, I pulled a Dumb DM by forgetting to give the other small objects - the chair and carpet - +1 to-hit, -1 CMB due to their size.
    I don't think they came even close to hitting anyone, so oh well!

    Also, Aliani doesn't even need the carpet to grab it, although I guess he could have used the shredded carpet to tie it up after getting it Pinned?
    I mean, it's a tea kettle - there's literally a handle to grab it by (hrm, maybe I should give a +2 bonus to grapple checks against it for that. )
    Last edited by Inspectre; 2018-12-20 at 08:51 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #821
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    Stelio Kontos's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    Hey, I'll have you know that my strength is perfectly average! Were I, you know, about seven inches taller and commensurately heavier, I'd be a powerhouse!
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  12. - Top - End - #822
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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    Since Miz only had to take a 5-ft step to get to I5, she should be able to take a full attack (claw/claw/bite) rather than just a standard (claw). Remember that claws and bites are primary natural attacks, so as long as you don't mix in manufactured weapons you get to make all of them at full attack bonus as part of a full attack action.
    Last edited by Darvin; 2018-12-21 at 11:25 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #823
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    Steveodore's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Darvin View Post
    Since Miz only had to take a 5-ft step to get to I5, she should be able to take a full attack (claw/claw/bite) rather than just a standard (claw). Remember that claws and bites are primary natural attacks, so as long as you don't mix in manufactured weapons you get to make all of them at full attack bonus as part of a full attack action.
    I did a follow up to include it now.

  14. - Top - End - #824
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    Darvin's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    You got a natural 20 on your bite attack; roll to confirm the crit

  15. - Top - End - #825
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    Stelio Kontos's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    How does one crit a bed? Is that, like, removing the mattress tag?
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  16. - Top - End - #826
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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    I see the depths of your depravity now - your whole evil plan is to ensure andaisin loses the warranty on her matress! That's the *real* reason you broke into her home, admit it!
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  17. - Top - End - #827
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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    That's step one in my diabolical scheme.

    Spoiler: 1
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    First, the mattress. That was always a given.

    Spoiler: 2
    Show
    Then, naturally, she goes to her buddy the queen to demand sanctions against the mattress manufacturers.

    Spoiler: 3
    Show
    The nobles and their bedding cartel of course can't put up with that, so start rousing some rabble on their behalf.

    Spoiler: 4
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    Enter the guards, to deal with that, of course...

    Spoiler: 5
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    ... but obviously the Hellknights are but a pawn of certain influential nobles, so they'll have to get involved on the other side...

    Spoiler: 6
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    ???

    Spoiler: 7
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    Profit!
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  18. - Top - End - #828
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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    What about the Shepards' Union of Varisia? They'll certainly go on strike if this persists for too many nights.

    Spoiler: BAD JOKE
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    Hey, what can a car and a Shepard not do without?

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    Rear suspension.
    = ~ Piccadilly Pineapple

  19. - Top - End - #829
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    Stelio Kontos's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    I was trying to not involve them, as far as anyone knows anyway.
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  20. - Top - End - #830
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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    Just to keep things rolling, I'll roll the confirm on Steveodore's behalf.
    One thing I'm curious about is the math for Miz's to-hit and damage right now.
    She has her mutagen which should move her STR to 20 (+4 STR up from 16), the Enlarge person moves that up to 22 (total str bonus +6). Then she has Elliana's bard bonus (+2/+2) and Heroism which stacks for to-hit only as the spell doesn't mention upgrading weapon damage. So we're sitting at +10/+8, throw on Miz's base attack bonus of +2 for +12/+8, and -1 to-hit for being Large, resulting in +11/+8, while Steveodore has +13/+9. Maybe the size penalty for to-hit was forgotten about, and the STR bonus from enlarge was thought to be +4 instead of +2? That would make the math work out to +13/+9. Also the d8 bite gets a serious upgrade to 2d6 instead of 1d10! Which seems like a weird break point to suddenly switch to two dice instead of just upping the die size like before, but whatever! If I'm missing something with any of this please let me know - I'll be happy to adjust the damage back up if I missed something.

    If nothing else, the to-hit math doesn't really matter - the bed's AC is pretty **** so Miz won't be missing until she starts rolling Aliani sub-5s.

    Here's the Crit Confirm and total Crit damage, rerolled using 2d6 for the Bite.
    Crit Confirm: (1d20+11)[20]
    Crit Damage (Total): (2d6+16)[22] plus (2d6)[10]

    Yup, that hits. 32 damage. Horrifying.
    Last edited by Inspectre; 2018-12-21 at 07:32 PM.
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  21. - Top - End - #831
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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    My bet is that Steveo simply adjusted his attack bonus from the previous turn when he was flanking and forgot to remove the flanking bonus.

    And yes, Feral Mutagen and Enlarge Person in conjunction are beastly. I need to grab a few more scrolls

  22. - Top - End - #832
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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    Looks like Team Animated Object nearly did as good of a job battering Miz as Miz did battering them.
    Good thing that clock didn't get its choke off (or the bed roll above average and land both hits instead of one as it's likely to do with a 50/50 chance to hit AC 19).
    Elliana going max healing on her Cure Moderate helped too, immediately undoing the entire 16 HP of damage Miz took.
    She's running out of spells though.

    The only damage the party still has at the moment by my count is Dalen's papercut 3.
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  23. - Top - End - #833
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    Stelio Kontos's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    I think I'm actually down 2 HP as well (-3, -6, then +7), but I could be wrong.
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  24. - Top - End - #834
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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Darvin View Post
    My bet is that Steveo simply adjusted his attack bonus from the previous turn when he was flanking and forgot to remove the flanking bonus.

    And yes, Feral Mutagen and Enlarge Person in conjunction are beastly. I need to grab a few more scrolls
    Whoops, you're right! Thought I removed the flanking bonus from my total

    Also sorry Inspectre, was going by memory for the size damage upgrade.

    Man though, one point off and I'd be down to 3hp, where the kettles can threaten me with lethal hits

  25. - Top - End - #835
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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Inspectre View Post
    The only damage the party still has at the moment by my count is Dalen's papercut 3.
    Well I got it from a door, so maybe it's a splinter?

    Anyways, keep in mind that blinded creatures are flat-footed, meaning Miz gets sneak attack damage against them if they fail their save.

  26. - Top - End - #836
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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    Let's see if they are:

    Will Save: (1d20-4)[10]
    Will Save: (1d20-4)[6]

    Yeah, no nat 20s here. We'll check again next round if either of them is still alive at that point.
    And Stelio's math is correct.

    So Dalen and Aliani both have papercuts then.
    Last edited by Inspectre; 2018-12-22 at 10:39 AM.
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  27. - Top - End - #837
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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Inspectre View Post
    Yeah, no nat 20s here. We'll check again next round if either of them is still alive at that point.
    Eh, at least one of them should still be around to make a second save. The full 3 round duration of the spell, though? Doubtful

  28. - Top - End - #838
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    Stelio Kontos's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    It occurs to me that I ought to make a spellcraft check on Elliana, partly because I'm the suspicious sort, and partly because damn was that like a heal or something because that looked like it hurt a lot yada yada, not that I'm any good at it.

    (1d20+5)[13]

    edit: musta been one of them healin' thingamajiggers.
    Last edited by Stelio Kontos; 2018-12-22 at 07:44 PM.
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  29. - Top - End - #839
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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    After you're done mauling all of Andaisin's furniture, you petty, petty adventurers (course if the furniture gets done mauling you, you have a different problem. ) you can certainly have a bit of a time to ask some questions about Elliana and the surrounding house (what's left of it). But what healing, specifically, are you referring to?
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  30. - Top - End - #840
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    Stelio Kontos's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Crimson Echo OOC

    ?

    The whole "Miz got rocked, nope, wounds closed instantly" thing was the healing to which I referred.

    Also, this is one slippery teapot. I should look for an oven mitt or something.
    Last edited by Stelio Kontos; 2018-12-22 at 07:53 PM.
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