Page 18 of 18 FirstFirst ... 89101112131415161718
Results 511 to 530 of 530
  1. - Top - End - #511
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Up there past them trees!

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I agree with basically all of this. Difficult to play heroes should translate into a higher ceiling, assuming they're used to their potential.

    My personal philosophy is that, rather than nerf a strong but mechanically complex hero, they should buff or point players to their simpler-to-play counter. That will help the middle end of skill, while the top end will then have a minigame of avoiding or countering that counter with the help of their team. Genji is easily countered by Winston for example, but he's also somewhat more mobile and has much better range than Winston, so he can still get picks on the enemy team if they aren't under that Winston's watchful eye. And while Genji is difficult, Winston is fairly easy to pick up and play.
    Well, I'm kind of skeptical of the merit of putting an easy counter for a difficult Hero. This isn't to say that Winston actually meets that definition, since a good Genji can juke Winston if played well. It's an uphill fight, to be sure, but with a bit of teamwork and synergy, a Genji can win out. But I think the Brig vs. Tracer matchup was a really good example of a 'you may as well go home' counter. Not only can Tracer not kill Brig, she also can't kill anyone else in Brig's line of sight, courtesy of armor pack. Also, FWIW, I also think Winston's mechanical complexity tends to be a bit underrated. Winston is a projectile, and most of his value comes from landing hits of your jumps. If your game plan is going to be just jump near your enemies and start zapping them, you're not going to be very effective.

  2. - Top - End - #512
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jackal View Post
    Well, I'm kind of skeptical of the merit of putting an easy counter for a difficult Hero. This isn't to say that Winston actually meets that definition, since a good Genji can juke Winston if played well. It's an uphill fight, to be sure, but with a bit of teamwork and synergy, a Genji can win out. But I think the Brig vs. Tracer matchup was a really good example of a 'you may as well go home' counter. Not only can Tracer not kill Brig, she also can't kill anyone else in Brig's line of sight, courtesy of armor pack. Also, FWIW, I also think Winston's mechanical complexity tends to be a bit underrated. Winston is a projectile, and most of his value comes from landing hits of your jumps. If your game plan is going to be just jump near your enemies and start zapping them, you're not going to be very effective.
    To a point, any counter is going to be easy compared to who theyre countering. That's kind of the point. Youre never going to have a Winston work harder to kill a Genji than the Genji is working to kill the Winston.

    Unrelated, I think the Tank/DPS divide is a bit ill conceived. Tanks need to be able to bring damage, especially ones like Winston, and DPS cant just immediately disintegrate when theyre attacked or flankers would be the only relevant characters. I think if they re-examined the whole pool and split it into an offense and a defense category, with support being the third, it would help inform picks and design goals in the future.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  3. - Top - End - #513
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Up there past them trees!

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    To a point, any counter is going to be easy compared to who theyre countering. That's kind of the point. Youre never going to have a Winston work harder to kill a Genji than the Genji is working to kill the Winston.
    Sure, but that leaves you in a position where everyone's in this revolving door counter-picks. I want to be clear, I don't have a problem with some asymmetry in matchups, but hard counters are a design flaw. Learning to play a Hero well should mean getting some tricks to either neutralize or avoid Heroes who are strong against you, and I do think the Genji/Winston matchup has that. For one thing, Winston is a big boy, and he's going to get some punishment from other people on the floor. For another, Genji has more range and a lot of burst.

    Unrelated, I think the Tank/DPS divide is a bit ill conceived. Tanks need to be able to bring damage, especially ones like Winston, and DPS cant just immediately disintegrate when theyre attacked or flankers would be the only relevant characters. I think if they re-examined the whole pool and split it into an offense and a defense category, with support being the third, it would help inform picks and design goals in the future.
    I completely agree with this. Lots of people seem to bandwagon on role queue as a band-aid, and it seems like it may be coming, but honestly, the game would be far better off if the whole concept of roles was called into question.

  4. - Top - End - #514
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jackal View Post
    Sure, but that leaves you in a position where everyone's in this revolving door counter-picks.
    I don't see the problem - there's an inherent downside to revolving counterpicks, namely that you're sacrificing all your ult charge if you do it too often, whereas if you take too long to do it you're feeding the enemy. The goal is that countering a counter may require teamwork.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jackal View Post
    I completely agree with this. Lots of people seem to bandwagon on role queue as a band-aid, and it seems like it may be coming, but honestly, the game would be far better off if the whole concept of roles was called into question.
    I feel that eliminating the "tank" role would just be rebranding; you still won't get far without at least one Reinhardt, Winston or Orisa in an objective map.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)

  5. - Top - End - #515
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I feel that eliminating the "tank" role would just be rebranding; you still won't get far without at least one Reinhardt, Winston or Orisa in an objective map.
    Sure its rebranding, but I think from a design and intuition standpoint, offense/defense is a better divide to have than tank/DPS. With a good team, I can fairly consistently get gold damage with wrecking ball or Reinhardt. Are they DPS characters because of that? Well, Wrecking Ball maybe, but people should be picking characters because of what theyre good at, not because theyre classified under a certain role.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  6. - Top - End - #516
    Troll in the Playground
     
    GolemsVoice's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Why would you remove it? Sure, Reinhardt might bring some DPS, but Soldier 76, Pharah or Ashe will never be able to act as tanks. The divide is clearly there, why not name it?

    Maybe a few tanks are miscategorised, like Winston, but I feel like the tank role is still viable.
    Si non confectus, non reficiat.

    The beautiful girl is courtesy of Serpentine
    My S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripjat Let's Play! Please give it a read, more than one constant reader would be nice!

  7. - Top - End - #517
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by GolemsVoice View Post
    Why would you remove it? Sure, Reinhardt might bring some DPS, but Soldier 76, Pharah or Ashe will never be able to act as tanks. The divide is clearly there, why not name it?

    Maybe a few tanks are miscategorised, like Winston, but I feel like the tank role is still viable.
    Because the role is either self evident in the design of the character, like rein or orisa, or its only loosely related to how the character actually plays, like Hammond or Winston. Especially if the rumors im hearing about forced 2/2/2 matchmaking are true, how characters are identified is going to matter.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  8. - Top - End - #518
    Titan in the Playground
     
    CarpeGuitarrem's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Hmm. What would "offense" and "defense" mean, specifically? Would a team of squishy DPS be considered "offense"?
    Ludicrus Gaming: on games and story | My Steam Account
    Quote Originally Posted by Saph
    Unless everyone's been lying to me and the next bunch of episodes are The Great Divide II, The Great Divide III, Return to the Great Divide, and Bride of the Great Divide, in which case I hate you all and I'm never touching Avatar again.

  9. - Top - End - #519
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Morty's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Poland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    I don't play Overwatch anymore, and I think what's been said on the past couple of pages might be why. But I must say I agree about the Tank role not working properly. If a new player sees that the team is missing a tank and picks Winston... they won't be able to actually do the main job of a tank, because Winston can't protect his team like Reinhardt and Orisa. Roadhog even less so.
    My FFRP characters. Avatar by Ashen Lilies. Sigatars by Ashen Lilies, Gulaghar and Purple Eagle.

  10. - Top - End - #520
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    I don't play Overwatch anymore, and I think what's been said on the past couple of pages might be why. But I must say I agree about the Tank role not working properly. If a new player sees that the team is missing a tank and picks Winston... they won't be able to actually do the main job of a tank, because Winston can't protect his team like Reinhardt and Orisa. Roadhog even less so.
    At a level I finished playing at, that hardly matters - Winston primarily tanks by causing massive disarray and chaos and if I'm going to deal with my DPS barely able to hit Bronze damage, then I might as well assume that their DPS isn't so great either, hulk out in a good spot, take out their supports / DPS, and once the dust settles, planting the fresh-off-cooldown shield on my own remaining squishies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Mordekaiser for president.

  11. - Top - End - #521
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Winthur View Post
    At a level I finished playing at, that hardly matters - Winston primarily tanks by causing massive disarray and chaos and if I'm going to deal with my DPS barely able to hit Bronze damage, then I might as well assume that their DPS isn't so great either, hulk out in a good spot, take out their supports / DPS, and once the dust settles, planting the fresh-off-cooldown shield on my own remaining squishies.
    And that's all well and good, but its not really "tanking" any more than 76 popping his ult and going ham on the enemy team is tanking. Youre just killing them better than theyre killing you, which is a perfectly legitimate way to play and win, but not really anything close to what is assumed with the tank descriptor.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  12. - Top - End - #522
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Morty's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Poland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Winthur View Post
    At a level I finished playing at, that hardly matters - Winston primarily tanks by causing massive disarray and chaos and if I'm going to deal with my DPS barely able to hit Bronze damage, then I might as well assume that their DPS isn't so great either, hulk out in a good spot, take out their supports / DPS, and once the dust settles, planting the fresh-off-cooldown shield on my own remaining squishies.
    Whereas I made the mistake of picking Winston when my team didn't have any other tanks and we got massacred.
    My FFRP characters. Avatar by Ashen Lilies. Sigatars by Ashen Lilies, Gulaghar and Purple Eagle.

  13. - Top - End - #523
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Up there past them trees!

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I don't see the problem - there's an inherent downside to revolving counterpicks, namely that you're sacrificing all your ult charge if you do it too often, whereas if you take too long to do it you're feeding the enemy. The goal is that countering a counter may require teamwork.
    The problem is the fact that there's 29 (soon to be 30) Heroes, all with their own tempo, timings, playstyle, and mechanics which a player will need to spend a great deal of time becoming familiar with at a high level. That may be feasible for a full-time streamer or professional gamer, but it's absurdly beyond the reach of any ordinary player, and, again, this is the best-case scenario. The reality is that there's a race-to-the-bottom equilibrium where the meta is defined by the composition which boasts the minimum amount of risk with the maximum amount of payoff, all other factors being equal. When the risks are disparate and the payoff equal, players will necessarily gravitate away from risk, which is why we have GOATS.

    I feel that eliminating the "tank" role would just be rebranding; you still won't get far without at least one Reinhardt, Winston or Orisa in an objective map.
    Why not? The tanks just prolong the exercise of getting picks, mostly to the point of being impossible, hence the game hinging almost exclusively on ultimate economy. Take away most of the stall, and entry picks become possible, and the game might actually reward qualities such as unpredictability, flanking, and aim. At day's end, I don't think the game of Overwatch as conceived has a rosy future, unless the developers are prepared to completely overhaul their role-based philosophy. Maybe there's enough Mercy and Brig mains to keep FPS bumper-cars in business, but I doubt it.

  14. - Top - End - #524
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Velaryon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Baptiste came out this week. I have gotten a chance to play him a bit, and while I'm not good with him right now I think he has promise.

    One issue I'm noticing though is that, at least in lower tiers (I'm in high gold/low platinum) many people aren't using his healing grenades, only the AoE heal that affects him. I've had several matches where the tanks gave up and switched characters because none of our Baptistes would heal them. I don't know if it's because people are trying to play him like a burst-firing Soldier 76 or what, but I hope this is just a temporary thing. This is a level of stupid usually reserved for bronze.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    Work is the scourge of the gaming classes!

  15. - Top - End - #525
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Rising Phoenix's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Oz
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    As a support main who can play all the supports competently he's okay...

    Not bad, not great juist...meh... Immortality field is an ult on a cooldown.

    He's ult charges extremely quickly just slightly slower than moiras so spam it...It can be very hard to get value out of it.

    I think he's best used at chokes with a bunker comp. Baptise, mercy/ana/zen, orissa, hog, mcree/ash, junkrat(/bastion) gives you ridiculous and I mean ridiculous damage between all the amps. Of course a single grav/blade deletes your team if the immortality field is not at play...and you probably can't recover quickly enough.

    He's very vulnerable to dive.

    Other that that I don't think he does not do much to change the meta himself.
    Last edited by Rising Phoenix; 2019-03-22 at 06:41 AM.
    Awesome FE sprites done by Penguinator

    My Homebrew:
    Spoiler
    Show


    My characters

    Spoiler
    Show

  16. - Top - End - #526
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Velaryon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Two of my friends that I play with regularly have both proven to be better with Baptiste than I am thus far. I will say that his immortality field is great against some ults (Doomfist, D.va, and Hanzo spring to mind, but I'm sure it applies to many others). I find that Baptiste's own ult seems very easy to waste, and not many people are using it well yet. The one time I did see it put to good use, he set it up in front of a Bastion that was also being boosted by Mercy. It melted my teammates before we could even register that it was there.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    Work is the scourge of the gaming classes!

  17. - Top - End - #527
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Silverraptor's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    A nice, sparkly place.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    And this came out to celebrate the new hero.


  18. - Top - End - #528
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Velaryon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    That's pretty funny, except in my experience Death Blossom shreds the doodad that provides the invulnerability field.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    Work is the scourge of the gaming classes!

  19. - Top - End - #529
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gomipile's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    I like the new skins for this event. I think my favorite is Mei's "Honeydew" skin. However, I don't understand it. Is it a reference to something?

    Winston's gargoyle skin is quite good looking as well.

    On the new arcade modes: I've never been good at FFA, so I'm not thrilled with these variants. I'm not great at precision-aim characters, so the Mirrored Deathmatch mode was a real chore to get a top 4 finish in once. I think the least aim-dependent hero I saw was Soldier. Each time I played it, that mode also had at least one or two hitscan experts who'd get 25+ KBs while the rest of us were lucky to make it out of single digits.

    Hero Gauntlet wasn't as bad, since I got to use some of my better heroes along the way. I got a top three finish in that on the first try, even got PotG for a nice chain of four KBs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harnel View Post
    where is the atropal? and does it have a listed LA?

  20. - Top - End - #530
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Velaryon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    I thought both of the new modes were interesting and a nice change of pace... but at the same time I'm not a big deathmatch fan so I just did them once each. Fortunately, I scored 4th place in each pretty quickly, and then went back to other modes.

    I like a lot of the skins this time around, in particular Winston's, Brigitte's, and Mei's. I also love Hammond's dance emote, which I bought immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    Work is the scourge of the gaming classes!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •