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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I think you are somewhat overestimating the power of pharmercy. Youre dedicating two heroes to do one job only somewhat better than normal, and probably requiring that a third be dedicated to an additional support as well. Its good if you absolutely need Phara, specifically, but beyond that she isn't exceptionally better than having a damage boosted 76, or McCree, or bastion, or reaper, or... well, you get the idea.

    To say nothing of the fact that people really, really don't like having justice rained down on them from above. You start running with a heavy pharmercy, and they will take steps to make you really, really unhappy.
    Well, I don't think so. Just to be sure, I'm talking specifically about gold rank. Most hit-scan players at that level just don't have the accuracy to deal with Pharmercy. Because of that Pharmercy at that level and below is insanely powerful. And again, I'm not saying that Mercy should completely ignore the rest of the team. She can move around as needed; I do that all the time. If I am not healing someone, then I am damage-boosting Phara. And damage boosted Phara is better than damage-boosted 76 or McCree, because she does more dmg per shot. Also, she is more mobile, she can get past all the chokes and shields and destroy the squishies first. Soldier or McCree can't really do that. Bastion, on the other hand, is another matter, entirely. I would almost always prioritize pocketing Bastion over Phara.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jackal View Post
    Because they're not playing together. Why should anyone subordinate their desires to indulge the desires of a stranger? The way the competitive matchmaking system is structured, Blizzard has effectively turned the spawn room into a Prisoner's Dilemma experiment. If you could group up without worrying about being matched into upscaled competition, players could form teams and maybe compromise about who plays the Mercy, form strategies that complement their proclivities, and ultimately find more fun.



    Because people don't want to win, they want to PLAY.
    I don't think that's completely true. I, of course, don't have any hard evidence, but judging by how many people ask for 2/2/2 or for at least 2 healers and one shield tank or ask for a hit-scan hero or tell someone to switch off that widow/hanzo/[other non-meta hero], I dare say a lot of people are playing to win.

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by HasSIn View Post
    I don't think that's completely true. I, of course, don't have any hard evidence, but judging by how many people ask for 2/2/2 or for at least 2 healers and one shield tank or ask for a hit-scan hero or tell someone to switch off that widow/hanzo/[other non-meta hero], I dare say a lot of people are playing to win.
    Sure, lots of people ask for 2/2/2, but more often than not, you don't get it, because there aren't 4 players who logged on to play supports or tanks, and there's usually one, if not two players who want to snipe, when it's pretty clear that sniping is ineffective on most maps. Everyone wants to win, but wanting to win is not the same thing as wanting to play a Hero you don't want to play in order to do it. You'd think Blizzard would have learned the lesson from WoW, where a group is composed of 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 DPS, and DPS routinely wait for 30 minutes or more to get matched with a tank and healer. In Overwatch, the ratio of DPS to other roles is even higher.

  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    The numbers don't make sense here. You're assuming Gold rank or below because there aren't too many people with really accurate hitscan aim at that skill level. However, you're also using damage numbers as if Pharah is landing all or nearly all direct hits... which isn't at all likely if your skill level lands you in Gold.

    Pharmercy works if your enemies can't shoot you down, which makes sense in low ranks, particularly on console. But you're also talking about the skill tiers where Symmetra/Torbjorn can effectively lock down a choke point, which is just as effective. You also run the risk of frequently having idiot teammates running double snipers instead of something effective.
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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post
    The numbers don't make sense here. You're assuming Gold rank or below because there aren't too many people with really accurate hitscan aim at that skill level. However, you're also using damage numbers as if Pharah is landing all or nearly all direct hits... which isn't at all likely if your skill level lands you in Gold.

    Pharmercy works if your enemies can't shoot you down, which makes sense in low ranks, particularly on console. But you're also talking about the skill tiers where Symmetra/Torbjorn can effectively lock down a choke point, which is just as effective. You also run the risk of frequently having idiot teammates running double snipers instead of something effective.
    59% of the player population is Gold or below, so I'm not sure you're getting the notion no one in Gold can aim. Yes, some Gold players can't aim, but that's because nothing is stopping you from climbing on Mercy and then swapping to McCree and stinking up the place. But Pharah's rockets, like Junkrat's projectiles, have a really forgiving hitbox, so if you're good at prediction, you can make her work, without miraculous aim. IMO, what's harder about Pharah is managing her fuel and boosts. If you look at Torb and Sym in Gold, yes, they have a good win rate, but they also have a really abysmal pick rate (sub 1%) so clearly there is a situation where they are strong in specific positions and scenarios, and mostly useless elsewhere.

    Even double sniper doesn't get that much action in Gold competitive, with a pick rates of about 2%, so I think the notion that Gold is a dumpster fire of throwers and bad one-tricks is specious. Rather, Gold and below is Junkrat paradise, which is what really makes Pharah strong: Junkrat can't shoot up. Picking off a Pharah with Zenyatta spam is possible, but not easy.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jackal View Post
    59% of the player population is Gold or below, so I'm not sure you're getting the notion no one in Gold can aim. Yes, some Gold players can't aim, but that's because nothing is stopping you from climbing on Mercy and then swapping to McCree and stinking up the place. But Pharah's rockets, like Junkrat's projectiles, have a really forgiving hitbox, so if you're good at prediction, you can make her work, without miraculous aim. IMO, what's harder about Pharah is managing her fuel and boosts. If you look at Torb and Sym in Gold, yes, they have a good win rate, but they also have a really abysmal pick rate (sub 1%) so clearly there is a situation where they are strong in specific positions and scenarios, and mostly useless elsewhere.

    Even double sniper doesn't get that much action in Gold competitive, with a pick rates of about 2%, so I think the notion that Gold is a dumpster fire of throwers and bad one-tricks is specious. Rather, Gold and below is Junkrat paradise, which is what really makes Pharah strong: Junkrat can't shoot up. Picking off a Pharah with Zenyatta spam is possible, but not easy.
    That isn't my notion. HasSIn is the one who believes hitscan players in Gold and below aren't generally good enough to shoot down Pharmercy. My assertion is simply that if you're playing at a level where hitscan players don't have very good aim, it's unlikely you're getting direct hits on most shots with Pharah either. Her hitbox is a little forgiving, and when you factor in splash damage she's a lot more forgiving, but it's still harder to land direct rocket hits than it is to hit with a hitscan weapon.
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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    There are a lot of skins in this event I want, and I only have 4,500 gold.

    Also, I thought Moria was a straight Talon Agent. I didn't know she originally worked for Blackwatch.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    There are a lot of skins in this event I want, and I only have 4,500 gold.

    Also, I thought Moria was a straight Talon Agent. I didn't know she originally worked for Blackwatch.
    It was in her backstory. She started off with Blackwatch, and reports of her experiments are one of the sources of conflict between Reyes and Morrison. When Overwatch was disbanded, Moira joined Talon because they were the biggest group that continued to let her do her things.

    I go back and forth on whether she is outright evil or just ambitious and scary, because as far as has been shown, her experiments did actually lead to results that can help people, and we don't really know how many casualties, if any, she had to get to those results.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post
    That isn't my notion. HasSIn is the one who believes hitscan players in Gold and below aren't generally good enough to shoot down Pharmercy. My assertion is simply that if you're playing at a level where hitscan players don't have very good aim, it's unlikely you're getting direct hits on most shots with Pharah either. Her hitbox is a little forgiving, and when you factor in splash damage she's a lot more forgiving, but it's still harder to land direct rocket hits than it is to hit with a hitscan weapon.
    Who needs directs? Besides, when you're doing 120 a shot, you don't need consistency, spam will suit just fine. What Pharah has is the ability to, with good positioning and ability management, ignore well over half the enemy team, while working to counter the few Heroes who can shoot her down. She's a reductive Hero, who's able to turn what is usually a 6 on 6 brawl into a one on one duel, in which she always retains the weather gage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    It was in her backstory. She started off with Blackwatch, and reports of her experiments are one of the sources of conflict between Reyes and Morrison. When Overwatch was disbanded, Moira joined Talon because they were the biggest group that continued to let her do her things.

    I go back and forth on whether she is outright evil or just ambitious and scary, because as far as has been shown, her experiments did actually lead to results that can help people, and we don't really know how many casualties, if any, she had to get to those results.
    Mostly I just think she's overpowered, at least in the solo-queue meta.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jackal View Post
    Who needs directs? Besides, when you're doing 120 a shot, you don't need consistency, spam will suit just fine. What Pharah has is the ability to, with good positioning and ability management, ignore well over half the enemy team, while working to counter the few Heroes who can shoot her down. She's a reductive Hero, who's able to turn what is usually a 6 on 6 brawl into a one on one duel, in which she always retains the weather gage.
    My main beef with Phara is that her rockets are too damned slow. When firing from altitude, unless you are firing at a stationary target (Torb's turret, scoped Widow, etc), you are only going to be doing splash damage 95% of the time. Most targets are not stationary, however, and unless you are really REALLY good at predicting other peoples movements ahead of time, you are never really going to land a solid hit with out a huge heaping spoon-full of luck.

    Personally, I would love to see her have the ability to charge up and fire a salvo, ala "Unreal Tournament". Hold down the fire button to charge up 3 rockets and launch them all at once. It would take as long to charge them as it would to fire them individually, but they would all hit at the same time, so trying to hit-scan an auto lock, never miss, Torb turret wouldn't end with you getting shredded before you can get off enough shots.

    Of course the down side, would be having to reload more often, so you wouldn't want to be pulling that off all the time, or you would be constantly out of ammo when you needed it.
    "Sleeping late might not be a virtue, but it sure aint no vice. The old saw about the early bird and the worm just goes to show that the worm should have stayed in bed."

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutazoia View Post
    My main beef with Phara is that her rockets are too damned slow. When firing from altitude, unless you are firing at a stationary target (Torb's turret, scoped Widow, etc), you are only going to be doing splash damage 95% of the time. Most targets are not stationary, however, and unless you are really REALLY good at predicting other peoples movements ahead of time, you are never really going to land a solid hit with out a huge heaping spoon-full of luck.
    Yes, excelling with Pharah is about prediction and positioning, rather than proper aim. She's got a lot in common with Junkrat in that way, he's not mechanically challenging, he's just got to fling bombs in the places you're likely to be, he can only really reliably produce a hit in barrelstuffing range, unless he's fighting you in a hallway.

    Personally, I would love to see her have the ability to charge up and fire a salvo, ala "Unreal Tournament". Hold down the fire button to charge up 3 rockets and launch them all at once. It would take as long to charge them as it would to fire them individually, but they would all hit at the same time, so trying to hit-scan an auto lock, never miss, Torb turret wouldn't end with you getting shredded before you can get off enough shots.
    No thanks. She's already got quite enough burst just with peeking and launching a missile or three before she's detected. The ability to pop over a horizon and launch a Zenyatta-style volley of rockets at a target puts here even more in the category of spam-roulette than she already is. I actually think she's going to get a bit of a buff from the D.va nerfs that are coming through, because D.va is super-strong right now, and one of her best counters. If D.va can get pushed out of the meta a bit, there will be more room for Pharah to dominate from the air.

    If you're having trouble fighting Torb turrets with Pharah, you're doing it wrong. Torb's turret has a maximum range, Pharah doesn't. Torb's turret is stationary, Pharah is not. Stand off outside turret range and blast it away with a few rockets, and if you can't fire from far enough away, then peek. You can't be in a situation in which you both can't outrange the turret and lack cover. if you're fighting versus a Orisa/Torb bunker comp, get a teammate to swap to Junk to help you spam down the shield, or swap off.
    Last edited by The_Jackal; 2018-04-11 at 10:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jackal View Post
    Who needs directs? Besides, when you're doing 120 a shot, you don't need consistency, spam will suit just fine. What Pharah has is the ability to, with good positioning and ability management, ignore well over half the enemy team, while working to counter the few Heroes who can shoot her down. She's a reductive Hero, who's able to turn what is usually a 6 on 6 brawl into a one on one duel, in which she always retains the weather gage.
    But you aren't doing 120 per shot if you're only splashing, at least not on any single target. You're doing 20-80 damage per splash. That's my point. If you're calculating Pharah's damage based off 120 per shot, you're assuming direct hits.


    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jackal View Post
    No thanks. She's already got quite enough burst just with peeking and launching a missile or three before she's detected. The ability to pop over a horizon and launch a Zenyatta-style volley of rockets at a target puts here even more in the category of spam-roulette than she already is. I actually think she's going to get a bit of a buff from the D.va nerfs that are coming through, because D.va is super-strong right now, and one of her best counters. If D.va can get pushed out of the meta a bit, there will be more room for Pharah to dominate from the air.
    Oh no.... what are they doing to her now? Blizzard needs to stop crapping on D.Va. Who do they think she is, Mercy?
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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post
    But you aren't doing 120 per shot if you're only splashing, at least not on any single target. You're doing 20-80 damage per splash. That's my point. If you're calculating Pharah's damage based off 120 per shot, you're assuming direct hits.
    Sure, but it's not hard to get a direct on a target that's unaware of you, which, if you're good with your positioning, is pretty easy to do, because you and your team still need to pay attention to the other 5 members of the enemy team. Real talk: Yes, Pharah is far from the strongest Hero in Overwatch, and she goes from being pretty weak in Bronze to not bad in Gold/Plat, and down to near awful in GM. That's because in Bronze, your Pharah players don't have the skill to use her kit, basically playing her like a bad Junkrat. The good Pharah mains, however, can easily cruise to Platinum, but once there, there's enough good D.va and hitscan players to shut her down hard.

    Oh no.... what are they doing to her now? Blizzard needs to stop crapping on D.Va. Who do they think she is, Mercy?
    From ye olde patch notes:

    D.Va

    Micro Missiles
    Explosive damage reduced from 6 to 4
    Boosters
    Impact damage reduced from 25 to 10
    Developer Comments: D.Va’s burst potential is a bit too high, so we’re reducing the damage of her Micro Missiles and Boosters impact. Prior to this change, each missile dealt 3 impact damage and 6 explosive damage. We’re reducing explosive damage from 6 to 4 but leaving the impact damage the same, the net result being 21% damage reduction.
    The boop damage nerf is a lot bigger than the splash nerf, imo. That one is so marginal, I don't think many people will even use it, but in any case, I can produce math which shows that D.va is the strongest Hero in the game, right now, trailed closely by Zenyatta, with everyone else lagging further behind. I don't know if you can put tabular data on the forums, but I took a weighted average of each Hero's win rate, weighed by their pick rate, to get a median win rate by bracket, then plugged in stats from Overbuff, and worked out each Hero's value, by multiplying their pick rate by their marginal median win rate (ie: their total win rate, minus the median win rate for the bracket). It's not entirely scientific, as there's externalities which inform pick rate other than Hero strength, but I think it's as good an objective guide as you can get for boiling Hero pick rate and game results into a integer you can use to compare their strength or value. It's probably not a good idea to give this comparison too much weight when judging across all roles, but against other Tanks, D.va fares far and away better than other Tanks, at all brackets, with a high pick rate and high win rate.

    I might try to take a crack at the Blizzard API and turn this into a moving average of Hero value, it's looking like a fun project. But in the meantime, you don't need a spreadsheet to figure out that D.va is the top tank in solo queue.
    Last edited by The_Jackal; 2018-04-12 at 08:11 PM.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    So, I'm achievement hunting for the archive missions. And playing with pubbies is just too hard to get legendary or finish expert with no incapacitations. Anyone here want to try and form a team and take on the archive missions for achievements?

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Thank you for the link.

    The math makes sense, but they need to figure out what the heck they want D.Va to be already. First they cut her tanking potential down by cutting her armor in half, then they took away most of her defense matrix and gave her more offense, basically turning her into a fat flanker. Now they're taking some of that away too. They need to make up their friggin' minds already.
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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post
    Thank you for the link.

    The math makes sense, but they need to figure out what the heck they want D.Va to be already. First they cut her tanking potential down by cutting her armor in half, then they took away most of her defense matrix and gave her more offense, basically turning her into a fat flanker. Now they're taking some of that away too. They need to make up their friggin' minds already.
    That's something I do agree with. I was never a fan of the introduction of her micro-missiles ability, and I didn't like the reduction of Defensive Matrix to get it, rather, I felt that it was her core durability that needed to be tweaked. I don't mind the shoot and fire feature, that's cool, but I feel like a tank as mobile and powerful as D.va really wasn't in need of a burst of an extra 200 damage.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jackal View Post
    That's something I do agree with. I was never a fan of the introduction of her micro-missiles ability, and I didn't like the reduction of Defensive Matrix to get it, rather, I felt that it was her core durability that needed to be tweaked. I don't mind the shoot and fire feature, that's cool, but I feel like a tank as mobile and powerful as D.va really wasn't in need of a burst of an extra 200 damage.
    The problem was that D.va (or rather her team) lived and died by her defense matrix. Her attack was so completely awful that there was absolutely no point in caring about her except when she had D-matrix up. She couldn't perform as a tank because she had no ability to intercept enemy fire. She was like Roadhog at his worst: a big fat pile of ult charge that could be safely ignored except when you wanted to pad your numbers or build ult. Now that she can actually hurt people, theres reason to kill her beyond a lack of enemies.
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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    The problem was that D.va (or rather her team) lived and died by her defense matrix. Her attack was so completely awful that there was absolutely no point in caring about her except when she had D-matrix up. She couldn't perform as a tank because she had no ability to intercept enemy fire. She was like Roadhog at his worst: a big fat pile of ult charge that could be safely ignored except when you wanted to pad your numbers or build ult. Now that she can actually hurt people, theres reason to kill her beyond a lack of enemies.
    Except that it's just as important to de-suit her now as before, because she can still eat a giant ultimate, because, in truth, nobody has a good gauge on how much matrix she's got left, except the pilot herself. And honestly, when the effect of your presence on the battlefield is that everyone needs to kill you first, to keep you from eating powerful ultimates and cooldowns, that actually makes you fantastic at your job.

    Besides, D.va has been a solid part of the meta both before and after her nerfs. She's basically been a mainstay of mobile comps, which continue to rule the game, despite Blizzard's efforts to the contrary, ever since the Winston buff made dive viable to begin with.

    If the aim is to make D.va a better tank, and not just a fat flanker, then remove the movement penalty when firing her fusion cannons, and increase their range a bit. But in my opinion, she doesn't need anything of the sort. I'd like to see her Matrix get upped to maybe 3 seconds on, with 6 second recharge, so she's got a bit more staying power, but can't eat an entire sustained ultimate just by holding down right-click. I'd also like to see a change to Sombra that makes her hack a bit more reliable, so that being pecked by a cross-map pellet doesn't trigger a lockout on her hack, to put some counterplay options for D.va out there.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    It's late evening at Watchpoint: Gibraltar and the agents are settling down for the evening. Mercy is holding the weekly D&D session and she invites Reyes along to make him feel welcome and included. While Mercy and Reyes decide on a character for him, the rest of the group are chatting amongst themselves...

    "Oh, my character's a thief! She's fast, nimble and can steal anything that's not nailed down! She's the bestest thief ever!"

    Reyes overhears this and twitches a little. "You mean she's the best thief ever."

    Tracer shrugs and turns back to her character sheet. Mei is next; she's talking about a previous evening . "The only two things that could stop our group was dragons or orges....."

    Reyes twitches again and corrects her, "The only two that could stop our group were dragons or ogres."

    Mei apologies and turns to Tracer. "Hey Tracer, check out my dices! Snowball made them for me!"

    *twitch*

    "Oh they're wicked! I got my dices as a Christmas present from my girlfriend!"

    *TWITCH*

    Mercy turns to Reyes. "Which dices would you like to use?"

    Reyes. Goes. Nuts. He kicks the table over, pulls out his shotguns, spinning and shooting all over the place and screams:

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    "DIE, DIE, DIE!!!"

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post
    The numbers don't make sense here. You're assuming Gold rank or below because there aren't too many people with really accurate hitscan aim at that skill level. However, you're also using damage numbers as if Pharah is landing all or nearly all direct hits... which isn't at all likely if your skill level lands you in Gold.

    Pharmercy works if your enemies can't shoot you down, which makes sense in low ranks, particularly on console. But you're also talking about the skill tiers where Symmetra/Torbjorn can effectively lock down a choke point, which is just as effective. You also run the risk of frequently having idiot teammates running double snipers instead of something effective.
    I have about 15-20% higher accuracy with Phara than Soldier and I'm probably pretty close to an average gold DPS player. As The Jackal have already pointed out, Phara's rockets have a large forgiving hitbox, you don't really need good mechanical skills, only to be decent at predicting and the first rocket is usually going to be a direct hit, because the enemy is not aware of you.

    Sure, not all of your rockets are going to be direct hits, but if you are playing Mercy and you have to choose between damage boosting Phara or Soldier, even if Phara doesn't have 100% accuracy she still has a larger damage potential than Soldier. Playing Mercy, besides healing, is about maximizing the damage of your team and to do that you should boost those with the highest potential damage: bastion>widow>hanzo>phara>=junk>mccree>soldier and then the rest depending on the situation (Rein is about to firestrike? Boost him. Hog hooked someone? Boost him. Sym got a lock on someone? Boost her. Etc.)

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by HasSIn View Post
    I have about 15-20% higher accuracy with Phara than Soldier and I'm probably pretty close to an average gold DPS player. As The Jackal have already pointed out, Phara's rockets have a large forgiving hitbox, you don't really need good mechanical skills, only to be decent at predicting and the first rocket is usually going to be a direct hit, because the enemy is not aware of you.

    Sure, not all of your rockets are going to be direct hits, but if you are playing Mercy and you have to choose between damage boosting Phara or Soldier, even if Phara doesn't have 100% accuracy she still has a larger damage potential than Soldier. Playing Mercy, besides healing, is about maximizing the damage of your team and to do that you should boost those with the highest potential damage: bastion>widow>hanzo>phara>=junk>mccree>soldier and then the rest depending on the situation (Rein is about to firestrike? Boost him. Hog hooked someone? Boost him. Sym got a lock on someone? Boost her. Etc.)
    And how much damage are you losing because your team needs a second healer since youre off flying Air-Phara? Pocketing her is ok if she's the only one in a position to deal damage, but it isn't an automatic damage boost to any comp with a phara in it just to pocket her at all times.
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  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by HasSIn View Post
    Playing Mercy, besides healing, is about maximizing the damage of your team and to do that you should boost those with the highest potential damage: bastion>widow>hanzo>phara>=junk>mccree>soldier and then the rest depending on the situation (Rein is about to firestrike? Boost him. Hog hooked someone? Boost him. Sym got a lock on someone? Boost her. Etc.)
    I'd like to present a counter-philosophy with regards to who Mercy should be boosting, speaking as an enthusiastic, but by no means gifted sniper: Don't boost Hanzo or Widow. You're far better off boosting Junkrat, Pharah, Soldier: 76, or other medium range DPS. There's a few reasons for this. The most important is this: When a sniper is popping off, boosting accomplishes nothing. Widow has a 300 damage crit, and Hanzo, 250. That's enough to one-shot any non-tank in the game, with the sole exception of a shielded Doomfist. Rather, you'd like to be boosting Heroes who are always going to benefit from doing more damage, which puts Pharah and Junk at the top of the list. With their splash damage, your boost can produce much more effect, with more consistency, and going from 120 damage to 156 damage is almost invariably going to be more impactful than going from 300 to 390 damage. McCree is a great boost target, because it turns his headshots to 182 damage, so weak a slight breeze will finish most heroes off.

    However, there's another reason why I think boosting snipers is a bad idea: positioning. If your team is playing to win, they're going to be in a kind of eschelon, with the tanks in front, medium ranged DPS& supports slightly behind, and a Sniper further back. Hanzo plays closer, so he's less disadvantageous, but Widow is a 'Kill you from the far end of the map' Hero. Being 15 meters from Widow means, likely, that you're further away from your front line, where your healing is most likely to be needed, and you should always prioritize healing over boost. Yes, you can guardian angel around, but pocketing Widow will also put you in a situation where you're a potential target in a Sniper duel, or by a flanker, and also puts your guardian angel on cooldown after flying into apply some healing, depriving you of an escape mechanism for 1.5 seconds.

    Finally, I also don't like being boosted, personally, as a Widow or a Hanzo, because I'm relying on being undetected to pick people off. A Hanzo or Widow who keeps firing from the same position isn't going to be very effective, as the enemy team will start to take measures to counteract his/herfire, using barriers, or cover, to ensure she has no viable shot. Playing with a giant blue beam pointing to your position makes that reaction happen much more quickly, and can also get you spotted by counter-battery.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    If you communicate enough, damage boosting a Hanzo for a sec before he shoots a Scatter Arrow can be a solid play. It removes that margin for error where your no-skill footshot can randomly fail to instagib their tank.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    And how much damage are you losing because your team needs a second healer since youre off flying Air-Phara? Pocketing her is ok if she's the only one in a position to deal damage, but it isn't an automatic damage boost to any comp with a phara in it just to pocket her at all times.
    As I said previously, pocketing Phara doesn't mean leaving your team behind. On most maps you will have a line of sight to the rest of your team and you can GA to them if there's a need. On those few maps where Phara has to go on a crazy flank, let's say Eichenwald 1st point, where Phara on attack goes around the right side and attacks from behind I will follow her and if she doesn't get any kills and dies, on the next push I will stick with the rest of the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jackal View Post
    I'd like to present a counter-philosophy with regards to who Mercy should be boosting, speaking as an enthusiastic, but by no means gifted sniper: Don't boost Hanzo or Widow. You're far better off boosting Junkrat, Pharah, Soldier: 76, or other medium range DPS. There's a few reasons for this. The most important is this: When a sniper is popping off, boosting accomplishes nothing. Widow has a 300 damage crit, and Hanzo, 250. That's enough to one-shot any non-tank in the game, with the sole exception of a shielded Doomfist. Rather, you'd like to be boosting Heroes who are always going to benefit from doing more damage, which puts Pharah and Junk at the top of the list. With their splash damage, your boost can produce much more effect, with more consistency, and going from 120 damage to 156 damage is almost invariably going to be more impactful than going from 300 to 390 damage. McCree is a great boost target, because it turns his headshots to 182 damage, so weak a slight breeze will finish most heroes off.

    However, there's another reason why I think boosting snipers is a bad idea: positioning. If your team is playing to win, they're going to be in a kind of eschelon, with the tanks in front, medium ranged DPS& supports slightly behind, and a Sniper further back. Hanzo plays closer, so he's less disadvantageous, but Widow is a 'Kill you from the far end of the map' Hero. Being 15 meters from Widow means, likely, that you're further away from your front line, where your healing is most likely to be needed, and you should always prioritize healing over boost. Yes, you can guardian angel around, but pocketing Widow will also put you in a situation where you're a potential target in a Sniper duel, or by a flanker, and also puts your guardian angel on cooldown after flying into apply some healing, depriving you of an escape mechanism for 1.5 seconds.

    Finally, I also don't like being boosted, personally, as a Widow or a Hanzo, because I'm relying on being undetected to pick people off. A Hanzo or Widow who keeps firing from the same position isn't going to be very effective, as the enemy team will start to take measures to counteract his/herfire, using barriers, or cover, to ensure she has no viable shot. Playing with a giant blue beam pointing to your position makes that reaction happen much more quickly, and can also get you spotted by counter-battery.
    I have to disagree with you on that. A boosted body shot from Widow does 156 dmg and 162 from Hanzo. That's enough to kill Tracer and baby Dva and finish off a 200-hp hero who took some splash damage from Phara or Junk. Also, a half-charged shot from Widow now does 80 dmg, so 156 + 80 is more than enough to kill all 200 hp heroes. And sure, 390 headshot from Widow and 325 from Hanzo doesn't change much when shooting the squishies, but makes a huge difference against tanks. And as Rynjin said, it makes Hanzo's scatter more reliable. Furthermore, Widow's headshots give Mercy an insane amount of ultimate charge.

    As for the second point, I agree. Truth be told, I rarely boost Widow throughout the entire match exactly for the reason you mentioned. But she is a great target for damage boosting at the start, when nobody in your team needs healing. Also, if the other DPS hero is Tracer, Genji or Sombra, whom you can't really follow around, it might be worth to stick with Widow at least on certain parts of the map where you are not far from the team. Hanzo is imo a very different case, as he is not really a traditional sniper and usually doesn't have that much different positioning from Soldier or McCree. If I had to choose between boosting Hanzo or McCree and Hanzo is actually hitting his targets then there's no question. Those extra 75 damage make a huge difference against tanks.

    The last point, I get what you mean, but I don't think it makes that much difference. Most of the time as Widow (or Hanzo) you only show your head or you peek around a corner and in those cases Mercy's beam doesn't make you more visible, unless Mercy is literally standing 1 foot from you. When I boost her I always try to stand so that neither me nor the beam is showing. If I see that she took some unusual position to get a sneaky shot I won't follow her.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Just going to ask again. Is there anyone who want to try and team up to beat either archive mission on legendary mode?

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    Just going to ask again. Is there anyone who want to try and team up to beat either archive mission on legendary mode?
    You can hit me up if you see me online, but I've despaired of getting even Epic mode. I have a 50% success rate on Hard, not because we can't reach the end, but because more than 50% of the time, idiots won't get on the dropship.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jackal View Post
    You can hit me up if you see me online, but I've despaired of getting even Epic mode. I have a 50% success rate on Hard, not because we can't reach the end, but because more than 50% of the time, idiots won't get on the dropship.
    We can try to form a team. Send me a friend request. My Battlenet ID is: Silverraptor#1175.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Ah hah! Got the Blackwatch Moira skin. Success!
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Ah hah! Got the Blackwatch Moira skin. Success!
    Awwww! I want that skin too!

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    We can try to form a team. Send me a friend request. My Battlenet ID is: Silverraptor#1175.
    Sent. Ozryk#11320.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Thread of the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jackal View Post
    Sent. Ozryk#11320.
    Accepted. Anyone else want to try for beating the Archive missions on Legendary?

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