How do you deal with hordes of enemies?

[The Random NPC]

We started a 2e campaign a bit back, and we just ran into a really disappointing battle with 20 kobolds that nearly kill us all. Our group is a 4th level Thief, a 2nd level Fighter with the Bladesinging fighting style, a Priest, and a 1/3 Wizard/Loremaster Bard. We're all elves of varying flavors. It just seem way too much of a threat for 35 exp each; are there any ways to help deal with hordes of monsters other than the attacks equal to level against less than 1 HD monsters Fighters get?

[MeeposFire]

We started a 2e campaign a bit back, and we just ran into a really disappointing battle with 20 kobolds that nearly kill us all. Our group is a 4th level Thief, a 2nd level Fighter with the Bladesinging fighting style, a Priest, and a 1/3 Wizard/Loremaster Bard. We're all elves of varying flavors. It just seem way too much of a threat for 35 exp each; are there any ways to help deal with hordes of monsters other than the attacks equal to level against less than 1 HD monsters Fighters get?

Well to be honest that special number of attacks per level on 1HD monsters is a 1e rule and not a 2e as I recall so you are probably not getting that.

Honestly tactics are your best bet. You need to fight in suh a way to reduce the number of attacks getting to you and keep your attacks up. Bottling them up somewhere can be effective though kobolds tend to be trappers so this may not be an option and they may do it to you instead. Ranged attacks can be good if you can get them (bows with their increased ROF will help a lot so long as you can keep it going). AOE would help but your wizard probaby lacks good options so you will have to go to more mundame methods like flaming oil. Leading the kobolds into an area drenched and oil and lighting it or instance can kill a bunch at a time which is what you may need but once again may not be easy to pull off.

[The Random NPC]

The extra attack thing is an optional rule in the DMG, and unfortunately, we were ambushed. As far as I could tell there wasn't much in the way of tactically advantageous terrain around, and we were surrounded anyways. I'm actually the Wizard, and I just got access to 2nd level spells, plus I pillaged a spellbook from a dead wizard. It has Ray of Enfeeblement, Scare, Summon Swarm, Fool's Gold, Bind, and Glitterdust (which I think is my best option) but my GM says I need to purchase reagents to learn spells so that's not gonna happen anytime soon.

[LibraryOgre]

The extra attack thing is an optional rule in the DMG, and unfortunately, we were ambushed. As far as I could tell there wasn't much in the way of tactically advantageous terrain around, and we were surrounded anyways. I'm actually the Wizard, and I just got access to 2nd level spells, plus I pillaged a spellbook from a dead wizard. It has Ray of Enfeeblement, Scare, Summon Swarm, Fool's Gold, Bind, and Glitterdust (which I think is my best option) but my GM says I need to purchase reagents to learn spells so that's not gonna happen anytime soon.

Scare is pretty potent at that level against kobolds... no save except for their priest, and they won't fight unless cornered, and then at a penalty.

But, really, y'all're outnumbered 5:1. At low levels, that's going to tear you up unless you have something like a conga line of death going on.

[Lapak]

Yeah, crowds in Ad&d are difficult for low-level parties - the dice are going to go against you when the enemy is rolling several times as many per round.

The possible methods are (in reverse order of effectiveness):
- stand-up fight
- defensive choke point
- area effect (trap prepared in advance, Sleep spells, etc.)
- avoiding the fight

And an ambush in open terrain with no real arcane casting left you with nothing but the first option. The question is, did you have any opportunity to avoid that? (E.g. were you going into a known Kobold stronghold, or did the DM give you hints that the area was dangerous, or did you have the opportunity to scout the terrain and didn’t take it, etc.)

If the possibility existed for you to know this was coming and you walked into it, think about how you could have prepared for it and do that in the future. If the DM just sprang this encounter on you (“as you travel to the next town, suddenly kobolds jump out of the bushes. You are surrounded, roll initiative!”) that’s kind of bad DMing in AD&D and it might be worth talking with him about giving you more agency in your own prep in the future, or saying ‘given what we learned from that, from here on forward we’ll be scouting the terrain while we travel, how do you want to handle that?’ or some such.

[Thrudd]

Yep. Run away. If you've got a spell that can distract or daze them, use it. Toss down treasure and hope they aren't all bloodthirsty enough to ignore it, Toss some food in case they're hungry and looking at you as dinner.

[Lord Torath]

The bit about the spellbook you can't use reminds me of a thread here a while back on these forums by a DM who was concerned he might have been giving out too much treasure as a reward for Dragon Slaying (my search-fu is failing me here, and I can't seem to locate it). He said that some of the dragon treasure was cursed, and the rest of it had strings attached before it could be used. There were several suggestions, but the post that really stood out to me re-framed the question in terms of pancakes:

"I want to reward my players with Pancakes, but I'm afraid I may be giving them too many. Half of them fell on the floor and got stepped on, and the rest are mildly poisoned. Do you think I'm giving them too many?"

Something else you may want to discuss with your DM is rewards that are not really rewards.

Edit: Sleep! I forgot to mention that Sleep is another spell that is highly effective against kobolds. 2d4 HD means 4-16 kobolds out of the battle with no save.

[The Random NPC]

We did come across a merchant caravan that had been attacked, but as we are new to 2e, we expected more notice checks to avoid the kobolds. Also, I now think my GM doesn't use morale checks.

[rax]

I second the proposal to run away and fight another day, or at least a few rounds later. Kobolds only have movement 6, so you should have had no trouble getting clear. Ideally, you'll also be able to conduct a fighting retreat, cutting down the closest pursuers as they get near and then retreating when the main body closes with you. If you have access to bows, this becomes easier, since you can either fire on the move, or put some distance between you and the kobolds and then shoot them down when they get within range.

Morale is another important factor in AD&D. The DMG suggests roleplaying morale as the best choice, but when faced with large numbers of foes, I definitely prefer dicing for morale. The DMG recommends making a morale check after an opponent has lost 25% of its hit points or - in the case of groups of enemies - 25% of their force. So if you had managed to kill four kobolds they would have had to make a morale check, which means rolling above 8-10 (kobold morale) on 2d10. The roll can be further modified by situational modifiers, where losing 25% of the force itself adds a -2 penalty to the kobold's morale.

[Lapak]

We did come across a merchant caravan that had been attacked, but as we are new to 2e, we expected more notice checks to avoid the kobolds. Also, I now think my GM doesn't use morale checks.

Yep, morale is an important thing on both sides - you control your own, but should keep the idea of ‘retreat or surrender if necessary’ in mind at all times as others have said. In addition, monsters which want to rob you may be willing to take some of your stuff with no fight rather than try for all of it with a fight.

That said, definitely a lesson going forward is to be extremely proactive and specific about your reaction to cues like the caravan. Tell the DM how you’re preparing for the possibility of bandits - potential tactics having a scout or scouts separate from the party so you can’t al be surprised at once, taking a defensive formation that gives you an advantage if you are ambushed, using a familiar as an aerial scout, traveling off the road rather than on it, or even assembling a makeshift defense in place if you think they’ll come to you and you have time. 2e leans more heavily on non-game-mechanical actions to determine things like this.

[Thrudd]

If the DM just sprang this encounter on you (“as you travel to the next town, suddenly kobolds jump out of the bushes. You are surrounded, roll initiative!”) that’s kind of bad DMing in AD&D and it might be worth talking with him about giving you more agency in your own prep in the future, or saying ‘given what we learned from that, from here on forward we’ll be scouting the terrain while we travel, how do you want to handle that?’ or some such.

Its not bad DMing at all, this is built into the rules of the game. AD&D has a thing called the surprise roll, and wandering monsters in the wilderness. Getting ambushed (aka being surprised by wandering monsters in the wilderness), is a common occurrence. Sometimes you surprise them, too, and have a chance to sneak away without alerting them or trying to parley or set your own ambush.

[Lapak]

Its not bad DMing at all, this is built into the rules of the game. AD&D has a thing called the surprise roll, and wandering monsters in the wilderness. Getting ambushed (aka being surprised by wandering monsters in the wilderness), is a common occurrence. Sometimes you surprise them, too, and have a chance to sneak away without alerting them or trying to parley or set your own ambush.

Yeah, “bad DMing” was overstating the case, but I would generally consider it more-than-typically unforgiving to have a score of anything drop into combat on a low-level party with no chance to mitigate the situation. Particularly with kobolds, who are usually cowardly, I’d typically have them demand surrender/tribute from a tactically-superior position if they got the drop on a party.

In this case they WERE given hints that trouble was afoot, so it’s not even that unforgiving.

[Duff]

If I've understood correctly, your complaint is basicly about the poor risk-reward balance from large numbers of low level monsters.
You're wondering about ways to reduce the risk since the reward side is light on.

Good tactics will sure help, but they'll help with any encounter. AOE spells and attacks are great, especially if moral is included.
A sleep spell drops a dozen, the ranger picks off the chief with a couple of good shots and the little monsters flee.

If this sort of fight is a main-stay of the campaign, either your GM is wanting slow advancement or they should assign "Story xp" as well

[thorr-kan]

Fireball. Fireball is always the answer. Unless the answer is More Fireballs.

Everybody's advice about tactics, morale, and running for another day are all good advice. 2ED's play style include fights you can't win, negotiation, and running away.

That said, 2ED's play style also includes blasting, hence the aforementioned fireball. Sixth-level wizards feel like gods when they're first fireball clears out a horde of bad guys.

[The Random NPC]

Well, Fireball and the like are a few levels off, but I'll keep the tactics suggestion in mind. As far as retreat was concerned since we don't use minis, everything kind of exists in superposition determined by the GM. I remember at one point there were 8 osquips attacking our Bladesinger, despite the fact that he was flanked by the Thief and the Priest. To be completely fair, that was because the Bladesinger had an AC of -1, but now that the kid gloves are off it becomes more important that we know where things are so that we can make tactically sound decisions (and to be clear, by the time we were thinking about retreating we had already killed like 13 of them). Additionally, a not insignificant part of my complaint is that the combat took so long. Although anything we hit died, we weren't rolling too well that night so there were a lot of whiffs. And since it lasted so long, we ended up using 8 of our 9 potions of Extra Healing, 1 of our potions of Healing, and the Priest's lone spell. I was hoping there were some better options to mitigate the risk and time but if there isn't, we'll just have to proceed a lot more cautiously.

[Thrudd]

Well, Fireball and the like are a few levels off, but I'll keep the tactics suggestion in mind. As far as retreat was concerned since we don't use minis, everything kind of exists in superposition determined by the GM. I remember at one point there were 8 osquips attacking our Bladesinger, despite the fact that he was flanked by the Thief and the Priest. To be completely fair, that was because the Bladesinger had an AC of -1, but now that the kid gloves are off it becomes more important that we know where things are so that we can make tactically sound decisions (and to be clear, by the time we were thinking about retreating we had already killed like 13 of them). Additionally, a not insignificant part of my complaint is that the combat took so long. Although anything we hit died, we weren't rolling too well that night so there were a lot of whiffs. And since it lasted so long, we ended up using 8 of our 9 potions of Extra Healing, 1 of our potions of Healing, and the Priest's lone spell. I was hoping there were some better options to mitigate the risk and time but if there isn't, we'll just have to proceed a lot more cautiously.

Convince the DM to use morale rolls, at least in situations like this with a big group of enemies. The kobolds probably should have bolted or surrendered by the time you killed ten of them, possibly after only five (unless some of your party were dead or unconscious, too). Also suggest using minis for combats with more than a few participants, as you've noticed why it's necessary. And also hopefully you're using side initiative and not individual initiative - or at least he's rolling one initiative for the whole group of enemies even if each of the player are rolling separately. And rolling a handful of dice at a time for the enemy attacks, when there's that many of them.

There are ways to speed up combat and keep it moving - there shouldn't be too many battles that last more than 15 minutes or so of session time.

[The Random NPC]

We are using group initiative with weapon speeds, which I personally dislike but that isn't worth mentioning to him. Using minis is a non-starter, he feels that they're a crutch for the lazy that do nothing but wastes the GM's time and effort. He makes his feelings know whenever we try to use a map when he isn't GMing and the worst part is he isn't as good as he thinks he is. I can try to suggest the morale rules but I don't have high hopes, his default defense when presented with information that he isn't aware of is to imply that you're lying (Me: Hey I just looked it up, a natural 1 is an automatic miss, not a crit. Him: You're wrong).

[Lord Torath]

Convince the DM to use morale rolls, at least in situations like this with a big group of enemies. The kobolds probably should have bolted or surrendered by the time you killed ten of them, possibly after only five (unless some of your party were dead or unconscious, too). Also suggest using minis for combats with more than a few participants, as you've noticed why it's necessary.

Even if you're not using a grid and/or ruler (I don't), just having minis let's you show the relative locations of your characters, so you can show that you're covering each other's backs and such.

Best of luck to you!

[Thrudd]

We are using group initiative with weapon speeds, which I personally dislike but that isn't worth mentioning to him. Using minis is a non-starter, he feels that they're a crutch for the lazy that do nothing but wastes the GM's time and effort. He makes his feelings know whenever we try to use a map when he isn't GMing and the worst part is he isn't as good as he thinks he is. I can try to suggest the morale rules but I don't have high hopes, his default defense when presented with information that he isn't aware of is to imply that you're lying (Me: Hey I just looked it up, a natural 1 is an automatic miss, not a crit. Him: You're wrong).

As DM, he does have the right to ultimately decide what the rules of the game are, even if they aren't in the book. Of course, he should tell you what rules are being used and where they are published, if they are published, and what rules are his own house rules. If he's claiming that everything is by the book but it isn't, that's easy to correct. If everyone dislikes a rule, you could all maybe persuade him to a change together, if you think he could take that sort of criticism.

I have known one or two people in my time who would not react well to any number of people giving criticism, however polite or correct they are. If your guy is the sort who would pout and throw dice across the room or toss you out of the game for complaining, like one person I knew...well your options are clear.

If he refuses to use minis and does things like allowing ten enemies to attack one person, then you should all start using language like "I get in a position where no more than one enemy can attack me." Or "we stay back to back so no one can get behind us" or "I throw the burning oil so it splashes on all of them." Take advantage of the imprecise nature of verbal-only combat every way you can, since he seems to be doing the same.

[FreddyNoNose]

Yeah, crowds in Ad&d are difficult for low-level parties - the dice are going to go against you when the enemy is rolling several times as many per round.

The possible methods are (in reverse order of effectiveness):
- stand-up fight
- defensive choke point
- area effect (trap prepared in advance, Sleep spells, etc.)
- avoiding the fight

And an ambush in open terrain with no real arcane casting left you with nothing but the first option. The question is, did you have any opportunity to avoid that? (E.g. were you going into a known Kobold stronghold, or did the DM give you hints that the area was dangerous, or did you have the opportunity to scout the terrain and didn’t take it, etc.)

If the possibility existed for you to know this was coming and you walked into it, think about how you could have prepared for it and do that in the future. If the DM just sprang this encounter on you (“as you travel to the next town, suddenly kobolds jump out of the bushes. You are surrounded, roll initiative!”) that’s kind of bad DMing in AD&D and it might be worth talking with him about giving you more agency in your own prep in the future, or saying ‘given what we learned from that, from here on forward we’ll be scouting the terrain while we travel, how do you want to handle that?’ or some such.

The good old blame the DM tactic. shame on you.

[The Glyphstone]

The bit about the spellbook you can't use reminds me of a thread here a while back on these forums by a DM who was concerned he might have been giving out too much treasure as a reward for Dragon Slaying (my search-fu is failing me here, and I can't seem to locate it). He said that some of the dragon treasure was cursed, and the rest of it had strings attached before it could be used. There were several suggestions, but the post that really stood out to me re-framed the question in terms of pancakes:

"I want to reward my players with Pancakes, but I'm afraid I may be giving them too many. Half of them fell on the floor and got stepped on, and the rest are mildly poisoned. Do you think I'm giving them too many?"

Something else you may want to discuss with your DM is rewards that are not really rewards.

Edit: Sleep! I forgot to mention that Sleep is another spell that is highly effective against kobolds. 2d4 HD means 4-16 kobolds out of the battle with no save.

That's the Red Fel quote I keep in my sig, IIRC. The treasure in question was specifically one acre of land.

[Lord Torath]

That's the Red Fel quote I keep in my sig, IIRC. The treasure in question was specifically one acre of land.

Huh. I could have sworn I went back and edited that into my post two days ago when I saw your sig in another thread, but apparently I didn't manage to hit "Save Changes".

[CE DM]

We started a 2e campaign a bit back, and we just ran into a really disappointing battle with 20 kobolds that nearly kill us all. Our group is a 4th level Thief, a 2nd level Fighter with the Bladesinging fighting style, a Priest, and a 1/3 Wizard/Loremaster Bard. We're all elves of varying flavors. It just seem way too much of a threat for 35 exp each; are there any ways to help deal with hordes of monsters other than the attacks equal to level against less than 1 HD monsters Fighters get?

magic

sleep spell is the classic standard response vs low level hordes. AOE attacks of any sort is the general one across all levels. Other than that, tactics & use of the battleground have to suffice (& often can have HUGE effects). Kobolds in specific are cowardly & tricky, though, so one needs be wary; they often don't bite on such efforts as luring them into choke-points & such.

Almost getting killed can be exciting, though, so I'm not sure there is as much a problem as you think. 5 people just defeated 20. I do not know if you have any real life fighting/combat experience, but that is freaking "epic!" when looked at without video game/movie brainwash.

Monster XP in AD&D & classic D&D is peanuts, BTW. It's never a major factor, unless, heaven help you, your DM is ONLY using it (a weird 2e thing). I wouldn't sweat it (unless...)

We are using group initiative with weapon speeds, which I personally dislike but that isn't worth mentioning to him. Using minis is a non-starter, he feels that they're a crutch for the lazy that do nothing but wastes the GM's time and effort. He makes his feelings know whenever we try to use a map when he isn't GMing and the worst part is he isn't as good as he thinks he is. I can try to suggest the morale rules but I don't have high hopes, his default defense when presented with information that he isn't aware of is to imply that you're lying (Me: Hey I just looked it up, a natural 1 is an automatic miss, not a crit. Him: You're wrong).

Well, "you are wrong" is not "you are lying". You are correct on 1 being a miss, but if the DM has a house rule they are fumbles (crit failure you meant?), then so long as they apply both ways, that's "correct" in his game.

Morale certainly ought be a factor, at least sometimes, and vs cowardly kobolds in particular. But I'm leery of passing judgement on a DM immediately just because they do or do not play d20 style (no morale there, BTW). And players shouldn't be so wedded to it either, as it's got as much downside as upside.

The extra attack thing is an optional rule in the DMG, and unfortunately, we were ambushed. As far as I could tell there wasn't much in the way of tactically advantageous terrain around, and we were surrounded anyways. I'm actually the Wizard, and I just got access to 2nd level spells, plus I pillaged a spellbook from a dead wizard. It has Ray of Enfeeblement, Scare, Summon Swarm, Fool's Gold, Bind, and Glitterdust (which I think is my best option) but my GM says I need to purchase reagents to learn spells so that's not gonna happen anytime soon.

a tough break, but as mentioned, they happen

most spell components are cheap. If you actually look them up, you might well find some on your own. Good luck on the learn spell % chances!

Bind: just the actual rope/string cast on
Fool's gold: copper pieces (or brass objects), using various gemstones are helpful, but great expense is not required
Glitterdust: ground mica. Depends on the terrain, and whether you have a mortar & pestle, etc. Or purchase. Good spell though!
Ray of Enfeeblement: V,S only
Scare is not a good spell at all, but a bit of bone from an undead is easily gained (you will defeat one at some point & have more than u will ever cast)
Summon swarm: a square of red cloth. You probably do need to buy some in town. Unless you have someone's clothing to cut up...

you are actually sitting pretty regarding L2 spells at least!

[The Random NPC]

magic

sleep spell is the classic standard response vs low level hordes. AOE attacks of any sort is the general one across all levels. Other than that, tactics & use of the battleground have to suffice (& often can have HUGE effects). Kobolds in specific are cowardly & tricky, though, so one needs be wary; they often don't bite on such efforts as luring them into choke-points & such.

Almost getting killed can be exciting, though, so I'm not sure there is as much a problem as you think. 5 people just defeated 20. I do not know if you have any real life fighting/combat experience, but that is freaking "epic!" when looked at without video game/movie brainwash.

Monster XP in AD&D & classic D&D is peanuts, BTW. It's never a major factor, unless, heaven help you, your DM is ONLY using it (a weird 2e thing). I wouldn't sweat it (unless...)



Well, "you are wrong" is not "you are lying". You are correct on 1 being a miss, but if the DM has a house rule they are fumbles (crit failure you meant?), then so long as they apply both ways, that's "correct" in his game.

He had previously stated it to be a rule and not a house rule. Having just looked it up, there are only two implications to his statement. Either that I'm lying to him, or that I have somehow misinterpreted a very simple statement. Plus there's a bunch of other times that he's done this, many of which were in games that others were running, and a few that had to do with real life facts. I'm fine with house rules, I'm less fine when people insist that their house rule is a book rule.

Morale certainly ought be a factor, at least sometimes, and vs cowardly kobolds in particular. But I'm leery of passing judgement on a DM immediately just because they do or do not play d20 style (no morale there, BTW). And players shouldn't be so wedded to it either, as it's got as much downside as upside.

I don't expect him to slavishly follow the book's rules, I'm just a little annoyed that monsters described as cowardly decided to fight to the last man when it was clear that they were outmatched. If it keeps happening I'll speak to him about it, but I'm not going to hold a single instance against him.

a tough break, but as mentioned, they happen

most spell components are cheap. If you actually look them up, you might well find some on your own. Good luck on the learn spell % chances!

Bind: just the actual rope/string cast on
Fool's gold: copper pieces (or brass objects), using various gemstones are helpful, but great expense is not required
Glitterdust: ground mica. Depends on the terrain, and whether you have a mortar & pestle, etc. Or purchase. Good spell though!
Ray of Enfeeblement: V,S only
Scare is not a good spell at all, but a bit of bone from an undead is easily gained (you will defeat one at some point & have more than u will ever cast)
Summon swarm: a square of red cloth. You probably do need to buy some in town. Unless you have someone's clothing to cut up...

you are actually sitting pretty regarding L2 spells at least!

It's not the spell components I need, just some nebulous reagents to learn the spell. Like in order to make the learn spell % roll I need to expend X amount of gold worth of reagents I don't have, thus preventing me from learning the spell in the field. And to be clear I don't mind if he imposes a house rule (though I'd appreciate the opportunity to retcon having purchased those reagents), but he's likely to insist that this is a book rule.

[CE DM]

Well, it isn't sounding good then, I have to now agree. Hopefully he has other qualities that are terrific, as it sounds like I'd bail myself.

[The Random NPC]

Well, it isn't sounding good then, I have to now agree. Hopefully he has other qualities that are terrific, as it sounds like I'd bail myself.

It sounds worse than it is, he's usually just mildly annoying at worst.

[jojo]

There's an awful lot of moving pieces in play here...

We started a 2e campaign a bit back...
...Our group is a 4th level Thief, a 2nd level Fighter with the Bladesinging fighting style, a Priest, and a 1/3 Wizard/Loremaster Bard...
...It just seem way too much of a threat for 35 exp each; are there any ways to help deal with hordes of monsters other than the attacks equal to level against less than 1 HD monsters Fighters get?

I may be off but I recall Bladesinger being a Fighter Kit rather than a Fighting Style. I don't recall a Wizard/Bard combo, much less Wizard/Bard-Kit being within the RAW.

I'm actually the Wizard, and I just got access to 2nd level spells, plus I pillaged a spellbook from a dead wizard...
...but my GM says I need to purchase reagents to learn spells so that's not gonna happen anytime soon.

I'm still confused by OPs multi-class combo. Regardless though the reagent thing is... not something I'm familiar with.

Yep. Run away. If you've got a spell that can distract or daze them, use it. Toss down treasure and hope they aren't all bloodthirsty enough to ignore it, Toss some food in case they're hungry and looking at you as dinner.

Scattering out some gold and/or mundane weapons as well as food while running is a decent option. If they split/stop then counter-attacking their broken formation becomes an option.

There are two good level 1 Wizard spells for this situation as well.

Sleep should drop at least 4 of them, forcing a morale save per the DMG, which ought to cause several more to scatter. There's no save for Sleep for Kobolds anyway.

Grease can cause any number of them to faceplant if it's well placed. Even a gently rising hill can really mess up an attacking force with a well placed Grease spell. Second to this is the fact that Grease is flammable, sure one of your allies needs to toss a torch into the mix but the result is a solid substitute for Fireball at Level 1 against 1HD creatures...

As far as retreat was concerned since we don't use minis, everything kind of exists in superposition determined by the GM...
...I remember at one point there were 8 osquips attacking our Bladesinger, despite the fact that he was flanked by the Thief and the Priest...
...To be completely fair, that was because the Bladesinger had an AC of -1...
...And since it lasted so long, we ended up using 8 of our 9 potions of Extra Healing, 1 of our potions of Healing, and the Priest's lone spell.

In order:

1. At a certain point minis are not "optional." I would say with 24 creatures in play you're at least an order of magnitude beyond viable "theater of the mind" play.
2. See number 1.
3. -1 AC in 2E at 2nd level is... bad DMing. Actively ignoring the rules to try and harm a player directly as a result of your mistake is also bad DMing.
4. What level is your Priest? How does the Priest have only 1 spell?

Even if you're not using a grid and/or ruler (I don't), just having minis let's you show the relative locations of your characters, so you can show that you're covering each other's backs and such.
Best of luck to you!

Exactly this.

It sounds worse than it is, he's usually just mildly annoying at worst.

It sounds really, really, really bad.

[Zombimode]

3. -1 AC in 2E at 2nd level is... bad DMing.

Agree with you other Points, but -1AC at Level 2 is entirely reachable for PCs: Plate + Shield is already AC2, with Dex 17 that's AC -1. Works with Banded/Splint Mail and Dex 18.

[The Random NPC]

There's an awful lot of moving pieces in play here...



I may be off but I recall Bladesinger being a Fighter Kit rather than a Fighting Style.

It's both!

I don't recall a Wizard/Bard combo, much less Wizard/Bard-Kit being within the RAW.

There's a couple of RAW legal Wizard/Bard-kits, but this one is not. My GM has a... fondness for elves and has dispensed with many of the limitations such as max racial levels and prohibited kit combos.

I'm still confused by OPs multi-class combo. Regardless though the reagent thing is... not something I'm familiar with.

It's not something I can find support for in the books.

Scattering out some gold and/or mundane weapons as well as food while running is a decent option. If they split/stop then counter-attacking their broken formation becomes an option.

There are two good level 1 Wizard spells for this situation as well.

Sleep should drop at least 4 of them, forcing a morale save per the DMG, which ought to cause several more to scatter. There's no save for Sleep for Kobolds anyway.

Grease can cause any number of them to faceplant if it's well placed. Even a gently rising hill can really mess up an attacking force with a well placed Grease spell. Second to this is the fact that Grease is flammable, sure one of your allies needs to toss a torch into the mix but the result is a solid substitute for Fireball at Level 1 against 1HD creatures...

We'll be keeping tactics such as this in mind for the future, and I'll be picking up some AOE spells as well.

In order:

1. At a certain point minis are not "optional." I would say with 24 creatures in play you're at least an order of magnitude beyond viable "theater of the mind" play.
2. See number 1.
3. -1 AC in 2E at 2nd level is... bad DMing. Actively ignoring the rules to try and harm a player directly as a result of your mistake is also bad DMing.
4. What level is your Priest? How does the Priest have only 1 spell?

1. I agree
3. I disagree that it's bad GMing, as pointed out it's pretty easy to reach -1 if you're trying. The fighting style can be bought for one weapon proficiency, gives either a +1 to attack, +1 to AC, or Parry without using up your attack (half level +1 to AC). If you spend an extra weapon proficiency, the first two options become +2. Targeting the player in question was seen as a kindness. The monsters we were facing were unlikely to be able to hit that AC but were better able to hit the rest of us. Since we were at 1st level, any hit could very well kill us outright. Since most of us have now gained a level or 2, he's decided to start targeting the rest of us. Which brings us to
4. The Priest is 1st level and may have a kit, I'm not sure.

Exactly this.

While I'd still prefer a grid, I'd have no problems with the suggestion solution.

It sounds really, really, really bad.

It really isn't. To be clear, he isn't mildly annoying all the time, just that when I have a problem with something he's done it usually only rises to the level of mildly annoying. Also, sometimes I'm annoyed by things that I shouldn't be, it's a failing on my part that I try not to hold against others.

I believe a part of the problem is his fondness for the system. I know he believes 3.5 was too coddling because it removed many of the penalties associated with magic. And to help assuage any other concerns, he is not our usual GM. He's giving our usual GM a break so he can recover from burnout.

[CE DM]

Indeed...The complete book of elves contains the (infamous?) bladesinger F/M kit, but indeed it also has bladesong fighting style. There is often confusion about them, but so be it.

AC -1 is actually not particularly rare in AD&D or classic D&D...even at L1, certainly not by L2. It is for several classes, but not for several others.
AD&D: plate mail, 18 dex. plate mail, shield, 17 dex. banded mail, +1 shield, 17 dex. shield spell, ring of protection +1, 18 dex. splinted mail, medium shield prof, +1 shield, 9 DEX. etc, etc

We played AD&D, classic D&D & various other games for almost 2 decades very heavily without ever once using a grid. Zero need for one. In 1999 or so I experimented with the grid in 2.5e (player's option: combat & tactics) & started using girds all the time with 2000's 3e D&D, but it was a nice break to ditch the grid and play old school D&D games again after a number of grid years. I like both, and certainly agree some editions "need" a grid, but AD&D (either) is not one of those.

What is lost without a grid is universally obvious positioning (at it's best, anyway, arguments still happened), distances & so forth. What is gained without a grid is a potentially much deeper game immersion, the mental experience of imagining the action, scene & locale, which grids & figures actually impair. Also: everyone in real life needing to be huddled about the grid & focusing on it. Less a board/war game & more one of the unbounded imagination.

Trust me, as my players with a decade+ of experience playing without the grid mostly HATED using one when I started to. The SAME players, after about a decade of using the grid, HATED NOT having the grid! It is a matter of experience & perspective, wanting to maintain one's competence & mastery, etc. They are equal, and it does a player good to have, learn & master both ways to play D&D. The random NPC & others aren't there as yet, but it will be a treat/new experience if/when grid/mini free play DOES pop for them (& with honest effort/time, it WILL).

the wizard/bard thing is odd, I assumed a dual class human, but that is some house ruled creation it seems.

The random NPC doesn't want to throw his DM in front of the bus, so I think it's safe to assume it's not that bad at all, not as it might sound (I had been swayed myself, but was corrected)